Cenk Uygur @ HuffPo: Obama Scapegoats His Own Voters

[Hissyspit]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/obama-scapegoats-his-own_b_742871.html

Cenk Uygur
Host of The Young Turks
Posted: September 29, 2010 12:33 AM

Obama Scapegoats His Own Voters

- snip -

There is one other explanation. They think they're going to lose and they're setting up a scapegoat. It wasn't that they ran a bad campaign or that they didn't deliver on their promises - it was their ungrateful voters and the damned professional left. Actually, Washington reporters will love this. There is nothing they enjoy more than beating up on progressive activists and the Democratic base. This strategy is tailored made for the DC elite. They're going to eat it up!

But to what effect? Obama is so immersed in the DC bubble that he has forgotten the end goal. He is under the delusion that if he can just get the Washington media and politicians to like him everything will be fine. But that wasn't supposed to be the end goal. As a politician, you're supposed to get the voters to like you, not some DC media jerk.

I think they still believe that the DC media is a good proxy for the mood of the country. That is a stunning and inexcusable error. But they're so deep in, they can't even see that losing the election and winning over the DC establishment is not a win or a wash, that's a gigantic loss. Do you think making David Broder happy will win you the 2012 election?

- snip -

In a recent AP poll about the healthcare bill, people - by a 2-to-1 margin - said that it should have done more not less in reforming the system. That isn't the professional left, that's America. The progressive base is so much larger than the Tea Party clowns running around in Koch brother funded protests. Remember, those are the same progressives who got you elected in the first place.

So, you can shoot the messenger all you like but it isn't going to change the message. You didn't do too much government intervention as Fox News claims, you did too little. Too little to protect the average American, too little to help him or her get a job, too little to change the same old games in Washington. Almost everyone in Washington is there because they succeeded in this broken, corrupt system. If you make them happy, you've probably done the exact opposite of what you were supposed to do.

MORE

[leftstreet]

1. The Democrats can't wait to get back in the minority n/t

[pnorman]

18. Right! After all, that's what politicians invarialy do,

particularly the unprincipled, SLEAZY types! Well, don't they all?

[Bluebear]

2. 'Obama is so immersed in the DC bubble that he has forgotten the end goal.'

Sadly the case. :(

[pinboy3niner]

30. I hear you, brother

I've avoided the infighting here partly because I have sympathies on both sides, and partly because it's a distraction for me.

Frankly, I'm reluctant to say more for fear of being dragged into a divisive debate.

I guess you could call me a 'disappointed loyalist.'

I think, like what I suspect is a large 'silent majority' at DU, I don't quite fit in either camp. So I haven't changed my avatar to a woodchuck or a cheerleader.

Perhaps we'll evolve and choose sides; perhaps not.

But I think one issue that is close to your heart, as well as to mine--DADT--is, for me, one of the most difficult ones for us to consider in measuring our President.

No, I don't think I'll go 'furthur' :) . But I always appreciate hearing your perspective.

Obviously, my reply goes beyond your reply in this thread. Just thought I'd drop a line to a friend here and put in a note, respectfully, about why I'm not present as a combatant in any of these wars.

Right now, I'm focused on supporting Boxer and Brown in my state. And supporting other candidates in my state and around the country.

[Bluebear]

33. Best back to you, my friend, and I am hoping on hope for Brown & Boxer's election!

:hug:

[pinboy3niner]

43. I love you, too, Bluebear

You are a champion for civil rights.

I appreciate your taking my message in the spirit in which it was intended.

You're a good man, Charlie Brown!

Love & Peace,
pinboy3niner

[walldude]

154. "Disappointed Loyalist"

Perfect description of me as well. Although they seem to be actually trying to drive me away with all this crap talk.

[ClarkUSA]

3. Cenk sounds as unhinged as PUMA Jane Hamsher. Are they on the payroll of the Koch Brothers?

I think Cenk should change his show's name to The Young Turkeys.

[depakid]

5. He's making perfect sense- and what's he's saying reflects what many other astute observers have

noted for months now.

[ClarkUSA]

9. He's whining, which is what other 24/7 critics of this administration have been doing for too long.

"astute observers"? rofl:

Cenk's convoluted crazy conspiracy theories probably only make sense to those who -- like Cenk and PUMA Jane -- spend most of their time on the internet demonizing President Obama.

[avaistheone1]

11. Oy vey!

Art thou whining yourself about others?

[ClarkUSA]

19. Not at all. I am merely acknowledging the facts just as Biden did today.

[depakid]

44. One thing you're surely doing is making that big blue target look a lot bigger

for Republicans this fall.

But hey, you "have the facts" so what's political reality go to do with it?

[ClarkUSA]

49. Nah, the 24/7 critics who demonize our Democratic President and his administration are doing that.

Biden and I are merely speaking truth to power.

As for what I'm doing, you're laughably off-base, no pun intended. I'm going to be on a conference call with the PA Democratic Party Chairman tomorrow to talk about how party activists can help defeat Toomey this fall and keep a Senate seat in the blue column. Unlike some people, I'm the part of the base who is trying to build up this party via GOTV, not tear it down with 24/7 attacks.

[depakid]

55. That's one of the strangest up is down black is white takes I've ever read on DU

and that's saying something!

:crazy:

Hopefully you leave those sorts of sentiments at home when you're out "building the party."

[ClarkUSA]

58. lol! That's not surprising, considering you think Cenk The Young Turkey makes"perfect sense"

:tinfoilhat:

<< Hopefully you leave those sorts of sentiments at home when you're out "building the party." >>

Why should I? The Democrats that I encounter GOTVing every week agree with me.

[depakid]

60. Well, if Toomey's your Senator next year, you can look to your base bashing

and pat yourself on the back for your efforts. I'm sure Toomey appreciates it!

I certainly would if I were him.

[ClarkUSA]

65. Yeah, sure. Unlike you, I am part of the base that's actively GOTVing to defeat Republicans.

<< I certainly would if I were him. >>

What an odd, yet revealing, thing to say.

[depakid]

72. If you're going around talking like you do here, you're Toomey's best friend

and more effective than his own outreach efforts could ever hope to be.

[muffin1]

77. +1 n/t

[ClarkUSA]

89. lol! By your pretzel logic, I guess VP Biden is "Toomey's best friend" too?

Your track record appears to be full of similar attempts to demonize Obama supporters. You seem to dislike all of the Democratic legislative efforts under this Democratic president and those who support Democrats and this Democratic president as well.

Why do you spend so much time on a site that supports Democrats?

[depakid]

151. When he makes foolish statements that belittle constituencies and become media fodder

in this political and economic climate- "you betcha."

[ClarkUSA]

192. "you betcha."?? Channelling Sarah Palin now? First you said "if I were Toomey". How revealing.

As for VP Biden, he hit a nerve and it's obvious who's whining now. You didn't answer my previous question:

Your track record appears to be full of similar attempts to demonize Obama supporters. You seem to dislike all of the Democratic legislative efforts under this Democratic president and those who support Democrats and this Democratic president as well.

Why do you spend so much time on a site that supports Democrats?

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

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[ClarkUSA]

114. lol! How would you know? When's the last time you or depakid supported the Democratic Party?

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

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[ClarkUSA]

95. Obama "admin...sold out to the big banks than any other admin in history" Got proof of this claim?

I doubt it, considering Clinton repealed Glass-Steagall. And that's just recent "history".

[Name removed]

163. Deleted message

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[ClarkUSA]

194. Prove your accusations. nt

[Kalun D]

212. Are You That Uneducated?

This is all common knowledge. Turn off the corporate propaganda TV and find other news sources.

[G_j]

119. "truth to power" ?

and I thought I'd heard it all.
:wow:

[ihavenobias]

147. + 1 n/t

[jgraz]

168. Oh, come on. "Young Turkeys" is brilliant political commentary.

Seriously, when did Mark Twain or Jonathan Swift ever deliver such a devastating blow in only two words? Someone should check on Cenk, make sure he's OK.

[Cherchez la Femme]

172. And may I say you're doing a fine job encouraging all Democrats here

Yessirree. A FINE job of bringing Democrats together, you are.

Poor PA.

With Clarkie at the helm, I can just feel the Change in the air! :shiver:

[ClarkUSA]

193. What are you doing to encourage and bring "Democrats here...together" these days?

As far as I can tell, you aren't doing squat. That's what Biden's point was and it obviously hit a nerve with Cenk The Young Turkey and his fans "here".

I am GOTVing every weekend in PA. You sure aren't "encouraging" me by mocking what I do there. Perhaps that's your purpose?

[Name removed]

198. Deleted message

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[ClarkUSA]

201. "working" at what? You seem to have nothing good to say about the Democratic Party or its policies.

You also seem to dislike all of the Democratic legislative efforts under this Democratic president and those who support Democrats and this Democratic president as well.

Why do you spend so much time on a site that supports Democrats?

[Cherchez la Femme]

213. & all boldened too

How special!

You want my resume? Like I'd give it on a public site? Crazy...
but I will tell you that if I eh, like something or eh, dislike something it's not worth my time to type out anything unless it's incredibly profound -- which it rarely is. It's meh.
But when it comes to things I love (rare these days) or incredibly stupid things yeah, I'll certainly mention them.

So fucking sue me.


And don't turn this on it's head and take up the same complaint and try to turn it around -- it's been YOU who have been negative, arrogant, better-than-thou, you and your buddy Biden "speaking truth to power" (SO good!)
YOU who have been wallpapering every thread you possibly can with naught but WORDY, REPETITIVE RANTS.

With all the whining you're doing, yourself, on virtually every thread,
it's a bloody wonder you have any time to just about run the state of PA's Democratic system, as you so proudly proclaim yourself doing to anyone who gives you credit or not.


And go ahead, complain against this post too -- seems it's YOU who can rant and rave and when somebody calls you on it you twist and turn and whine and then have the responding comment removed so it's only your voice -- as you feel it should be. Tent of Clark, or GTFO.


And still you have no concept of the damage you're doing to yourself and to the Democratic Party.
Then you complain about the damage, the results from your rages, too.
This is the New Democratic Way. Brilliant.

[rpannier]

175. Speaking truth to power

That has got to be the worst example of that term that I've heard in a long time

Biden is Vice President... He is the power

[Luminous Animal]

14. You are going to have to find another word. Whining is losing its oomph.

Whiny, dirty, lazy, hater, privileged, elite, commie, pinko, hippy, liberal, left.

Those words just don't have the sting they used to have.

[ClarkUSA]

24. No, I like it just fine. Leave it to VP Biden to say what's been on everyone's mind...

... everyone but the ones doing the whining, that is.

[bobbolink]

99. "Commie" "pinko" "hippie" and "liberal" are compliments.

Its time they noticed who their REAL base is.. those of us they call names and scapegoat.

Some of us are DONE.

Now, there is a fresh word.... we are DONE.

[tkmorris]

22. You're not making any sense at all

If you disagreed with Cenk and explained why I'd at least understand what you were saying. Your posts however seem COMPLETELY unrelated to anything he said. It's as if you didn't read what he said at all, or perhaps you felt the most effective response would be to ignore utterly what he did say, and instead act as if he'd said something entirely different. It's most puzzling.

[Luminous Animal]

32. Name calling IS political activism! And "whiny" hurts sooooo bad.

[ihavenobias]

153. + 1 n/t

[Kalun D]

27. Calling the Corporatists Out On Their SH*T

isn't whining

it's telling the truth, what's the matter? you can't handle it?

[ClarkUSA]

36. Nah, he's whining. I guess that's what pays the bills these days.

[Kalun D]

87. The White House

Is the one doing the whining.

"We've got the lowest bar in history, and we still can't get over it." WAHHHHHHHH!

We didn't do jack-crap for the workers and now they don't want to vote for us. WA WA WAAAAAAHHHHH!!!

[ClarkUSA]

101. VP Biden spoke truth to power & he obviously hit a nerve, judging by all the whining about whining.

[Kalun D]

159. BWAH HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!

""VP Biden spoke truth to power""

the most "owned" admin in this country's history, sold out to the big banks like no other ever, saying they are talking to power

what a total farce

[ClarkUSA]

196. You have yet to offer anything but baseless accusations. nt

[Fearless]

169. Tell me one person, anyone who disagrees with the president who isn't whining.

[ClarkUSA]

203. You.

Nice blog.

[ihavenobias]

140. Give up now.

How can you argue with such a well thought out, point-by-point fact based refutation of Cenk's article?

"Young Turkeys"? No way we can come up with a good comeback to that!

[KakistocracyHater]

166. he is & I have ignored so many partly because I can't stand unwarranted

happy talk & the insults that accompany it. I realized hard-core Obama followers are the bedrock of every movement, but puh-lease! Truth to power. I guess I'm not biased enough, but that's what helped me see thru W.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[ClarkUSA]

12. Why is it "absurd" to question whether professional shit-stirring media whores are being paid off?

After all, Cenk used to be a Republican.

And both he and PUMA Jane spend 95% of their time attacking the Democratic President and his administration's policies.

[provis99]

13. is that you, Rahm?

[ClarkUSA]

17. No, I'm a lifelong liberal activist who GOTVs every week for OFA. I am the base.

[Luminous Animal]

35. No. I'm the base. See, isn't that fun! We get to proclaim I AM THE BASE back and forth all day...

with zero exchange of ideas!

[ClarkUSA]

38. Ah, but I am that part of the base that is working hard to WIN the midterms, not lose them...

... by being negative and whiny all the time.

[Little Star]

75. no you'll lose them with the milqetoast policies. nt

[ClarkUSA]

83. That's baseless rhetoric. The party in the WH nearly always loses seats in off-year elections.

Read a book. When one party controls the White House, complacency inevitably sets in among its base, not dissatisfaction, and they lose seats. There have been only two exceptions to this political rule. With the lingering effects of the BushCo Great Depression that President Obama averted, the party will lose more seats than usual due to amnesiac independent voters swinging to Republicans.

[Name removed]

173. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

195. Deleted sub-thread

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[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[HEyHEY]

56. I somehow doubt that he's losing sleep over it.

[ClarkUSA]

130. True. I slept quite well, in fact.

;)

[hfojvt]

145. it's like the old Nader question

either his is an idiot (and does not know that he is helping Republicans) or he is an a$$hole (pretending to be against Republicans when he is really before them)

I give Cenk the same benefit of the doubt that I gave Ralph. I think they are both idiots. Useful idiots for the other Koch brothers (the primary Koch brothers being, of course, myself and my brother, my dad and his two brothers and my grandfather and his little brother Ivan) but idiots all the same.

[ClarkUSA]

204. ROFL!

<< I give Cenk the same benefit of the doubt that I gave Ralph. I think they are both idiots. Useful idiots for the other Koch brothers (the primary Koch brothers being, of course, myself and my brother, my dad and his two brothers and my grandfather and his little brother Ivan) but idiots all the same. >>

You're right. Of course, I am a big fan of the "primary Koch brothers" because of you, hfojvt. ;)

[Tarheel_Dem]

20. +1000 (nt)

[Kalun D]

21. Truth Fuc*ing Hurts

don't it

Cenk is one of the best progressives out there

This is the low bar corporate admin

[depakid]

47. It's certainly going to be interesting to see some of reactions around here on November 3rd

any bets who they'll blame if things look like this: http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

Not to mention what might happens in a state and local level in a redistricting year, thanks to the brilliant strategy that's been emanating from the administration and its surrogates to date.

[ClarkUSA]

117. We'll lose seats no doubt, as almost every party in the WH does during midterm elections.

<< thanks to the brilliant strategy that's been emanating from the administration and its surrogates to date >>

Yes, an habitual keyboard critic of this President -- who allegedly lives in Australia -- knows better than the political team that won the presidency against all odds by the largest margin of victory since LBJ.

Please give us further pearls of wisdom from Down Under. How many national races in the United States have you won or managed, by the way?

[HEyHEY]

53. He's a fucking hack

The ONLY reason people here like him is because he says things they agree with. I've never heard this basement dweller with a video camera say ANYTHING that made me say, "Hmm, that's interesting." I always find myself thinking, "Uh, yeah... yeah... obviously.. obviously... yeah."

The media is full of these douchebags nowadays. I don't even care what they have to say anymore, just read the news and make up your own mind. Fuck these delta bravos.

[ClarkUSA]

63. Absolutely. The Young Turkey is exactly that. It drives ratings. Hate sells, as media whores know.

<< The ONLY reason people here like him is because he says things they agree with. I've never heard this basement dweller with a video camera say ANYTHING that made me say, "Hmm, that's interesting." I always find myself thinking, "Uh, yeah... yeah... obviously.. obviously... yeah." >>

You're right. Do you want to know something? I have never been able to listen to more than a few minutes of The Young Turkey's shit-stirring gobble-gobble before I've turned to another station. Give me Stephanie Miller any day.

<< The media is full of these douchebags nowadays. I don't even care what they have to say anymore, just read the news and make up your own mind. >>

That's what I'm doing, too. I've stopped watching cable and Sunday morning talk shows.

<< Fuck these delta bravos. >>

Yup. That's what Biden was sayin' between the lines. :toast:

[HEyHEY]

64. What gets me is

I am a reporter. I've worked as a civic politics reporter in a major city. And you know who I've NEVER seen at press conferences, on the streets talking to people or anything? Bloggers and commentators. Most of them have no worth as far as I'm concerned because they have no access. They just read what actual journalists write and then form an opinion and call it news gathering.

To this DAY, though I'm now based in Beijing, I can call anyone of my old connections and get an inside scoop, a leaked document...etc because I've built relationships with the people who are doing things.

You think Cenk can get into a white house press conference? Nope, you think Cenk gets phonecalls back from senators to have guarded conversations about backroom shit? Nope.

So why the hell would he have anything interesting to say?

[ClarkUSA]

69. That explains alot. These know-nothing attention whores agitate for their 15 minutes 24/7

... and their fans adore them no matter what drivel is dribbling off their keyboards, as long as it dovetails with their 24/7 attacks against the Democrats and President Obama.

Thank you for the insightful commentary. In two replies, you've made more sense to me than Cenk "I used to be a Republican" Young Turkey and PUMA Jane "Grover Norquist is my ally" Hamsher has in two years.

[Bluenorthwest]

80. So you are able to get leaked docs in China? Really?

And Cenk has a radio show and is being broken in at MSNBC. Professionally, he takes your cake and eats it too.
Attacking a person on a personal basis is not all that professional, and framing a man who is a few notches above you professionally as 'a basement dweller' is not even accurate. Is that what you call 'reporting'? Characterization and a string of adjectives?

[ihavenobias]

123. Amen. n/t

[HEyHEY]

162. I really don't give a shit

What cenk does. I'm a reporter, not a commentator, I've had my own international radio show (real radio, not internet bullshit) and didn't care much for it. Sitting around spouting your opinions is not journalism. I know kids working at community newspapers that would hang Cenk out by his testicles if they ever had to go toe to toe on a real story.

Cenk is an entertainer, he's no journalist.

[Techn0Girl]

177. So you're a reporter , eh .... with a radio show no less....

Well I could have guessed that from your fine command of the english language alone ("fuck"..."shit"...bullshit"..) not to mention your command of sentence structure and grammar.

Good luck on that "reporting" career , Sparky.

[HEyHEY]

179. I like how you just attack me personally cause I don't like Cenk

SHows the grasp of the whole media concept your people have. I have no reason to lie, tons of duers know who I am and what I've done.

- Three years with the CBC in Vancouver focusing mainly on Civic politics and Oil and Gas
- Regular contributor to the Globe and Mail
- Former China Radio International show host (Though I am not proud of it)
- Recently offered a gig as a correspondent for a wire service that shall remain nameless (That I think I'll take)
I speak French and a good deal of Chinese, also have a book for a series on cities in China that is due out in January.

I don't care if I swear or get careless with my grammar online, especially talking to Cenk fans. My journalism career has been and is going just fine, thanks.

Also, if you find yourself learning from Cenk, you're so dumb, you probably should be watching him.

[Techn0Girl]

180. So ... you're a "journalist" and a Canadian....

... and you know what's best for American Democrats.

OK... right... :)

Good luck with that "wire service" job . I am sure it will be everything you imagine.

[HEyHEY]

181. Wow, you're really showing your inability to make an argument here

So, because I'm a Canadian, I can't comment on how much of a shit commentator "cenk" is? Xenophobic much? What does my nationality have to do with what I can and cannot make a comment on?

BTW, a wire correspondent in Beijing is a damn good gig in this line of work, especially for a guy just over 30. But, your snide remarks really just show, once again, how poor your perception of what the media should be doing is. Either way, I don't know why I'm defending myself to you.

These assholes huffing and puffing for a political party are a major problem, they've divided your country and stifled progress. Yet, you love it cause it makes you excited to hear them say mean things about the opposition. Enjoy your indulgence, it's fucking your country up.

[Techn0Girl]

184. Hey look - we agree 100% on something!

"These assholes huffing and puffing for a political party are a major problem, they've divided your country and stifled progress. Yet, you love it cause it makes you excited to hear them say mean things about the opposition. Enjoy your indulgence, it's fucking your country up."

Couldn't have said it better.
But I would not put Cenk into that category; quite the opposite.

[HEyHEY]

185. Look what he's helped do to the Dem party!

He's created a division in an all ready divided nation. All for his own ego. These guys can't do the actual job of a reporter, so they huff and puff and masturbate to the thought of themselves on TV.

[riverdale]

94. What reporters do for "access"

is the type of crap that makes the establishment media worthless. They bury the truth if it would be inconvenient to those in power. Because if their access got cut off, it would be devastating.

[HEyHEY]

165. Bullshit

When I was working civic politics I NEVER buried what was a story. It was a respect thing between me and my sources. They knew that if I heard it, I'd report it. All they asked is their names not be revealed.

So, often, I would get a piece of information and verify it through a third source.

[Name removed]

182. Deleted message

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[HEyHEY]

183. Uh, I've never been told to "can" a story

The difference between real life and television is that doesn't happen. I've never been told "Oh, our orders from the supreme leader have said we can't let this get out to the public." But keep up being a snot-nosed know-nothing-know-it-all instead of listening to someone who's worked in the business. HBO, indeed. Really? Is that what you have for a rebuke?

Also, "So, I would often get a piece of information that" would not be used because in proper newspaper writing you don't use "that." So, again, thanks for proving you don't know what you're talking about.

[Techn0Girl]

186. Your editor never decided to use some other piece instead of your own?

Really.
You must be an amazing writer because I'm guessing even Woodward or Bernstein occasionally had a piece get shelved now and then due to space or other considerations.

But not you.
Your stuff is just that good.
OK.

[HEyHEY]

187. Other considerations, or the lawyers weren't comfortable... of course

But never because of some vast media conspiracy, which is what people here often allege. Also, "unimaginative writer" seriously? What the fuck is that? We're arguing on a website and I'm supposed to write you a short story?

It's called getting the message across. Sorry that my choice of vocabulary doesn't entertain you, of course, you've made it clear you prefer entertainment to learning.

[Techn0Girl]

188. OK, look , you're bobbing an weaving here and our conversation is at an end.

[HEyHEY]

190. Bobbing and weaving? I'm responding to your assinine accusations and questions

How am I bobbing and weaving? As usual the one without a leg to stand on will begin trying to project the one who DOES is avoiding the questions. It's an old tactic used by desperate people.

Look, go on back to your big comfy couch and turn on the angry man who agrees with you. It seems that's all you're good for. Sorry, "all for which you are good," you mental mendicant.

[mod mom]

79. Why not place the blame where it deserves-on rahm & his bunch of alienating DINO thugs?

:eyes:

[nashville_brook]

90. now THAT's unhinged.

[MNBrewer]

104. excuse anything as long as it's Obama or his administration that's doing it

That's loyalty to the leader for you.

[ClarkUSA]

197. attack "anything as long as it's Obama or his administration that's doing it"

"That's" whining "for you."

[w4rma]

189. ClarkUSA, you are doing a very good job of offending everyone here. Well done.

Freeper trolls don't even offend as many people as well as you have been able to do.

[ClarkUSA]

199. Um, wrong. Not "everyone" here is a fan of Cenk The Young Turkey's whining about whining.

<< Freeper trolls don't even offend as many people as well as you have been able to do.>>

Really? Name some "Freeper trolls" and prove your claim, then? I would think "Freeper trolls'" attacks on this administration would be cheered on by many here who have made a habit of demonizing everything this administration does.

[Gormy Cuss]

200. Yeah, anyone who comments on the emperor's nakedness is unhinged.

:eyes:

[ClarkUSA]

205. What and who are your referring to by "the emperor's nakedness"?

[Gormy Cuss]

206. It's an analogy.

Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor%27s_new_clothes

The administration as the emperor who is convinced by the wily tailor that he's wearing the finest new raiments when in fact he's wearing nothing.
Uygur as the child who states the obvious, that in this instance the emperor is naked.

[ClarkUSA]

207. That's quite a stretch. A better analogy would be the Boy Who Cried Wolf. nt

[Gormy Cuss]

208. Your suggested analogy's not just a stretch, it's flat out not applicable.

Uygur didn't make up a Wolf.

[ClarkUSA]

209. It's applicable. And he did. And what a whinefest it is.

VP Biden really flushed 'em out, didn't he?

:rofl:

[Gormy Cuss]

210. The whining is emanating from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Too bad more attention isn't paid to the control of the Congress by the minority Republicans and their rhetoric.

[ClarkUSA]

211. Not at all. Biden accurately described the Whining Wing of the Democratic Party.

<< Too bad more attention isn't paid to the control of the Congress by the minority Republicans and their rhetoric. >>

That's right. President Obama has been calling Republicans out since he started campaigning. If you don't believe me, check out the videos and texts of every speech he's made since Labor Day. But the shit-stirring professional media whiners and their fans never pay attention to a damned thing President Obama says that contradicts their 24/7 negative opinion of him or the administration. That's what makes these folks whiners; they're dishonest critics. That's why VP Biden decided to note their "contribution" with an admonition.

[Tarheel_Dem]

4. What an insignificant little asshole Cenk is. Any actual data on the number

of households Mr. Cenk reaches?

[depakid]

6. When he's on MSNBC you can get the Neilson's on it

[Luminous Animal]

10. Unfortunately for Obama and the Democratic Party, insignificant little assholes

are reaching a critical mass.

[Tarheel_Dem]

25. You mean the 13% who were never Dems to begin with?

:rofl:

Check Gallup.....87% of "Democrats" support & approve of the President. As for the backwash, well....:shrug:

[Luminous Animal]

37. Well, then. They should be sweeping the midterms, eh?

[Tarheel_Dem]

41. Nope. Historically, the party in power doesn't "sweep the midterms".

But then you knew that right? I do think that it's time for some clear lines of separation. Whether by force, or by choice, the party needs to make a clean break with the third party elites. That's what I'm waiting for them to do, and damn the consquences. But that's just me.

[Luminous Animal]

46. I hope they do, too. I hope the party forcefully rejects liberal bloggers, gay activists,

the ACLU, the anti-torture and anti-war movements, and the teachers unions and pro-choice activists. I hope they never talk about the obscene poverty rate in the U.S. thus continuing that clean break that they made with those elites during the Clinton administration.

[Tarheel_Dem]

50. Suits me fine. I would rather the party was relegated to permanent minority status...

than to be taken over by the equivalent of the Tea Party. The purity brigade should just break off, and do what they want. Leave the Democratic Party alone, and intact.

[Luminous Animal]

54. So you confirm that labor, peace, women, and civil rights are no longer concerns for the Dem Party.

Cool.

[depakid]

59. Impressive, isn't it?

Not sure what would be left of the party without its core constituencies.

Something like a cross between Perot's followers and Dixiecrats would be my guess.

[Tarheel_Dem]

61. I confirm no such thing. It's the leftier than thou bloggers who disseminate

and foment the fake outrage that has engulfed the activist community. Perpetual victimhood seems to have replaced common sense amongst the leftists. They can all take a long running leap AFAIC. The rank & file aren't going anywhere. Take the 13% with you, and start up another party. How's that? If they feel they've gotten a raw deal, or someone hurt their feewings they should just take their chances & go. :hi:

[ClarkUSA]

42. No, you're wrong. Historically, the party in the WH nearly always loses seats.

Complacency is behind the enthusiasm gap for Democrats, not dissatisfaction.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tarheel_Dem]

100. .....

:hi:





:rofl:

[ClarkUSA]

28. Are you referring to Republican teabaggers or the whiners who never like Obama in the 1st place?

It's hard to tell the difference, given your description.

[Luminous Animal]

40. I'm talking about the whiners who are getting national attention from Biden, Obama, Axelrod, Gibbs..

I'm talking about the whiners who were invited to participate in a conference call and begged to stop whining. If the whiners are so insignificant, why does the most powerful man on earth need to give them a second thought.

[ClarkUSA]

45. Um, that's a misleading statement. Only VP Biden mentioned "whining". And boy did it hit a nerve!

He was so right, too.

:rofl:

[Luminous Animal]

51. Sorry dude. No hitting a nerve here. I think this strategy makes them look foolishly weak.

In fact, to me, it seems that you are the one suffering from this bonehead tactic. You are unable to mount a defense deeper than insults.

[ClarkUSA]

52. Uh huh. Sure.

:rofl:

[Luminous Animal]

57. Oh no! The little laughing man is inside my head. I'm enjoing seeing you devolve

from words to pictures. Too bad you can't post emoticons in your subject line. Then we'd have a rousing debate.

[ClarkUSA]

66. Words can't possibly do your rhetoric justice.

:rofl:

[provis99]

16. well, he gets less than Fox News, so that makes Fox News right in your opinion?

[Kalun D]

29. Cenk

is one of the best progressive commentators out there right now.

I put him just right behind Thom Hartman

[Tarheel_Dem]

39. I put him just behind....Aw forget it.

Folks like Hartmann, Cenk, and Jane Hamsher know their craft, and you'll never go broke playing to the lowest common denominator. Fearmongering sells. Always has, and always will. If they were doing it for free, I might respect them more. But these assholes are being paid quite handsomely. They are not, as they would have you think, one of you. Quite a few more zero's in their bank account than you or me.

I mean Thom Hartmann writes a book a week, and the same suckers rush out to sweeten his bank account. Hamsher & Hartmann are getting paid. Bank on it! Cenk has been up & coming for as long as I can remember. When the hell will he arrive? :shrug: They're all frauds, and let's not even talk about Arianna...now that's a woman who really knows how to make a buck.

[Bluenorthwest]

82. Chracterizations and slanders are not facts

Your negative opinion of various people and groups is just your opinion. You offer not one counter to the points made, nor do any of those attacking him. You make personal insults and false statements and attempt to paint these good voices in horrible shades.
A good time to point out that Obama and Biden are both opposed to equal rights for minorities they feel their God tells them to dislike. They oppose basic civil rights for GLBT people on the basis of superstitions, assumptions, and invisible things that they 'believe' with no evidence.
See, those are fact. Want some more facts?

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tarheel_Dem]

98. See, you're a prime example of why the leftists will never feel represented.

Your heroes talk for a living. Not one of them has stepped from the behind the mike ($$$) and actually put their asses on the line, launched a campaign, did the hard work, and actually WON anything! I'm pretty sure you're part of the 13% backwash, because I'm fairly confident that you, in no way, represent mainstream Democratic thought. Eighty-seven (87%) of us approve of the job this president is doing. While thirteen (13%) think Cenk, Thom, and Jane Hamster should be president.

:rofl: Good luck with that. Don't forget to write. :hi:

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gateley]

8. This is good -- thanks. Rec. nt

[jonnyblitz]

15. k & r. nt

[ProSense]

26. This is beyond stupid.

"...Obama is so immersed in the DC bubble that he has forgotten the end goal. He is under the delusion that if he can just get the Washington media and politicians to like him everything will be fine."

The President in out on the campaign trail connecting with young people (Wisconsin, Texas), speaking to people in their homes, visiting factories and other businesses and Cenk thinks this is attempt to get the media to like him?

Also, the President blistered Fox Noise today.

[Hardrada]

62. Well, he is good at campaigning. At governing...the less said the better.

Bartcop thinks Obama should come in to do some work once in awhile.

[Techn0Girl]

178. Has he been kissing any babies as well ?

[Kalun D]

31. K and R

K and R

[TheWraith]

34. What a stunning stack of bullshit.

Somebody must have a guilty conscience if they get so offended about Obama chiding people for temper tantrums.

[southmost]

48. Ok so that's what the establishment playbook directs us

So what happens if the Dems don't lose as many seats as predicted?
and why is the 'left' so eager to parrot the right-wing establishment dialog?

Seems as if the professional right and left, will be disappointed/stunned if the Dems keep the house.

I understand american voters are not being given a real choice.
Its either the Dems doing a half-asses attempt of fixing things
or bringing back the repukes to break things further.
What a sh*tty choice. But that's the only choices that have been given time and time again.

[democracy1st]

67. K & R

[girl gone mad]

70. k & r

[Ganja Ninja]

71. Absolutely 100 % spot on.

Arguing about the lack of voter enthusiasm is like arguing about the weather. It is what it is. You're not going to change it by calling the base ungrateful. If you want people to show up you have to give them a reason. Clearly people feel let down and betrayed.

[VMI Dem]

73. Rec for the truth.

[Oilwellian]

74. K&R n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

76. K & R

[Bullet1987]

78. I do think Progressives (the real ones who aren't being followers) are being set up to blame

But I think it's much deeper than that. I truly believe many liberals (including myself) have given up on the Democratic Party as a Party of the People and many have flat out rejected corporatism as a legitimate administrative plan. This is a major problem for the Party right now and that's why they're going after people like Cenk because he doesn't follow the talking points.

[ClarkUSA]

103. So lifetime liberals like me who are also Dem party & Obama supporters aren't "real" "Progressives"?

:tinfoilhat:

It seems that "followers" of professional shit-stirring media whores are into baseless conspiracy theories as well as whining.

[Erose999]

81. Suppose I agree with "Professional Leftists" like KO and Cenk? Suppose I supported Dennis Kucinich

in the '08 primaries. Suppose I sympathize with the GLBT community in their efforts to secure equal rights.

The Obama administration isn't telling me to GOTV, they are telling me to GTFO.

If the Blue Dogs/DLC/NDC/etc want my support they will have to do something progressive to earn it. I will not vote for a "yaller dog".

[closeupready]

84. Uygur is totally spot-on here; the amateurishness of the way

in which this administration relates to the outside world is unbelievable but true. K&R

[treestar]

91. No, he doesn't

This guy is taking himself too seriously. Like most editorial pundits.

[Sinistrous]

92. This baseess bullshit is really getting old.

But it looks as though all the wounded egos with the self-inflicted injuries are enjoying this party way too much.

[ClarkUSA]

106. +1000

<< Posted by Sinistrous

This baseess bullshit is really getting old. But it looks as though all the wounded egos with the self-inflicted injuries are enjoying this party way too much. >>

Well said. You nailed it, as did Biden.

[nashville_brook]

93. wish i could rec this twice.

[HughMoran]

96. Cenk is leader of the whiners

I hate his guts.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

97. Blame the Left has become a Democratic Party tradition.

One that still works on the gullible.

[ClarkUSA]

107. lol! What "Left"? Cenk The Young Turkey was a Republican. PUMA Jane hearts DLC darling Hillary.

They are about as "Left" as the Clintons and their loyal fans. Who's the one who's "gullible" here?

I am a lifelong liberal activist and I have been part of "The Left" since I was 11 and old enough to pass out flyers for local Democratic candidates in New York City. Professional 24/7 shit-stirring media whore whiners like Cenk The Young Ex-Republican Turkey and PUMA Jane "Grover Norquist and teabaggers are my allies" don't speak for me.

Most self-identified liberals have strongly supported this President from Day One, according to every single major poll taken since Jan. 2009. President Obama is the most progressive president in over two generations and a large majority of liberals appreciate his efforts, even if a small percentage of malcontents never will.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

113. Liberals

"The Fascists will shoot you.
The conservatives will applaud the Fascists.
The moderates will watch the executions on TV.
The Liberals will cry over your grave and feel guilty for turning you in to the Fascists."

SDS saying.

[ClarkUSA]

118. Hmm... so you believe that "Liberals" turn people into "Fascists"?

Really? I take it you don't consider yourself a "Liberal"? Are you even a Democrat?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

120. Do you want me to sign a Loyalty Oath? Are you now or have you ever been...?

Thanks for proving my point.

[ClarkUSA]

124. Not at all. I presume you provided the "SDS saying" for a reason. I'm asking obvious questions.

If you don't want to answer, that's fine, but don't jump down my throat with a "gotcha" after pulling a bait-and-switch just because I asked questions about something you said.

It's pretty clear you don't consider yourself a "Liberal". It's odd that you wouldn't be able to just state your political affilation. It's nothing to be ashamed of, is it?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

126. I've been a registered Democrat since 1965. You?

But, I'm with this Democrat when it come to voting:

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

[ClarkUSA]

128. Okay, but do you really believe that "Liberals" will turn "you in to the Fascists"?

I'm still puzzled as to the last line of your "SDS saying":

"The Fascists will shoot you.
The conservatives will applaud the Fascists.
The moderates will watch the executions on TV.
The Liberals will cry over your grave and feel guilty for turning you in to the Fascists."

SDS saying.

Do you really believe that "Liberals" turn people into "Fascists"? This is the third time I've asked you. It's obvious you don't consider yourself a "Liberal" Democrat.

Nice words by Thomas Jefferson. So I take it you're a Third Party voter? There's no need to be coy. Que sera sera.

BTW, I'm a bit younger than you, but I've always voted straight-ticket Dem, even if I have to hold my nose. For example, I can't stand Sestak but I'm working every week with other OFA members to help the PA Democratic Party defeat Club For Growth founder Pat Toomey, who's slightly ahead in the polls.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

132. I gave up on nose-holding after the '68 Dem convention.

When the "liberals" in the convention applauded the cops.

I've never been a "liberal" - whatever that appellation/generalization means. To some it seems to mean anyone that's to the left of the Republicans like Scoop Jackson, Bill/Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama.

I have the quaint notion that my vote belongs to me, not to The Party or any politician. And, that to get my vote, politicians have to earn it rather than have it granted to them because they have a (D) behind their names.

I didn't vote for Obama in '08 because I believed him when he said that he would escalate the lost war in Afghanistan. Up to that point I was willing to do some nose-holding and "hope" for "change" but that was the game-changer for me. So far, I haven't been "disappointed" because Obama is performing just like what he is, an ambitious centrist professional politician with his policies attuned to winning "the middle" in 2012.

[ClarkUSA]

138. So you gave the Democratic Party 3 yrs., you're not a liberal and you didn't vote for Obama in 2004.

I disagree with your description of President Obama. He, unlike the Clintons, is a liberal who has rejected DLC membership while still a Senator.

But like most self-identified liberals in this country who strongly approve of his job performance, he's also a pragmatist who managed to become the most successful progressive president since FDR in terms of the historic quality and quantity of legislation passed: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=459671&mesg_id=459671

Do you think you'll be voting for President Obama against the Teabagger Ticket in 2012? Or is that out of the question for you, Tierra_y_Libertad?

[EFerrari]

112. This thread has turned into comedy.

LOL

:hi:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

116. More like a poorly written farce.

:hi:

[ClarkUSA]

121. Your catchy contribution notwithstanding, of course.

"The Fascists will shoot you.
The conservatives will applaud the Fascists.
The moderates will watch the executions on TV.
The Liberals will cry over your grave and feel guilty for turning you in to the Fascists."

SDS saying.

:eyes:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

122. Hit a nerve? Circle d' wagons!

[ClarkUSA]

125. lol! Why should a nonsensical bit of bad prose do that? What does the last line mean, anyway?

"The Fascists will shoot you.
The conservatives will applaud the Fascists.
The moderates will watch the executions on TV.
The Liberals will cry over your grave and feel guilty for turning you in to the Fascists."

SDS saying.

Do you really believe that "Liberals" turn people into "Fascists"? This is the second time I've asked you. Why don't you answer, considering you offered the "SDS saying" to me in the first place, presumably to make some sort of obscure point.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

127. Try reading it again.

"The liberals will cry over your grave after turning you into THE fascists".

Your demands for party loyalty and applause for politicians attacking the left say it all.

[ClarkUSA]

129. I'm disappointed that you've resorted to strawman arguments to spin your rhetoric, Tierra_y_Libertad

Disappointed, but not surprised.

<< Your demands for party loyalty and applause for politicians attacking the left say it all. >>

Strawman argument. Pass the hay.

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.

www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

One mo' time: I am a lifelong activist member of "the left" and I don't feel that Biden was "attacking" me.

Neither do most liberals I know, most of whom are spending their spare time GOTVing for local Democrats.

It seems the only people who feel that way are the 24/7 critics who recognize themselves in Biden's admonition and are doing their best to remain Perpetually Offended instead of getting a clue.

[EFerrari]

133. You're a lifelong activist member of "the Left"? I want to clarify that

because you've only posted it five or six times.

[ClarkUSA]

136. Um, I was referencing your remark via "the Left" phraseology.

You're wrong. I did not use the phrase 'a lifelong activist member of "the Left... five or six times." However, I did point out the fact that I'm a lifelong liberal to the folks who presumed to speak for liberals, "the Left", "the left", or "the base" on this thread or insisted that any Democrat who disagreed with Cenk The Young Turkey were not "real" "Progressives".

[EFerrari]

137. A presumption that you have shellacked all over the thread.

All righty then.

[ClarkUSA]

139. No, the "presumption" is all liberals agree w/professional media whores like Cenk The Young Turkey.

Then there's the "presumption" that "the base" is upset with what Biden said.

Every single major poll since President Obama became POTUS has shown that a huge majority of self-identified liberals strongly approve of his job performance. It's obvious that VP Biden telling a tiny percentage of Democrats to stop whining. That I am one of the huge majority is the point I wanted to drive home and I'm glad I was successful.

[EFerrari]

134. Did I tell you today that I'm a concert pianist with long blond hair?

My friend Elvis here vouches for me!

:rofl:

[flyarm]

174. I now must clean my keyboard!..roflmao!!!!!!!!! Play me a tune Blondie! lmao!

Blondie

Feel The Spin (Extended Version) lyrics

Uno, dos, uno dos tres quatro
Hey, now honey, I'm about to begin
Hear the intention near me again
Been to impatient and I'm ready to spill
So tired of waiting for my turn to thrill

Trying to fly, trying to get a break
A space to move and a movement to make
Triangle toes, two loves continue
Why in the world? I'm a circular girl

Ooh, baby I feel the spin
Turning me round and round
Taking me out of town
Ooh, I feel the spin
Messing me round and round
Making my madness drown

Hey, now honey, my rotations set in
To a driving dimension, do it again
Hey, I'm standing on top of the world
Grinning and spinning, free as a bird

I'm dizzy from pressure, I hold out for pleasure
A space to move and some music to make
I'm spellbound from watching your radio hula
Hips over me, oh, I'm a circular girl

Ooh, baby I feel the spin
Turning me round and round
Taking me out of town
Ooh, I feel the spin
Messing me round and round
Making my madness drown

Ooh, I feel the spin
Taking me round and round
Throwing me out of bounds
Ooh, I feel the spin
Throwing me around

I'm dizzy from pressure, I hold out for pleasure
A space to move and some music to make
I'm spellbound from watching your radio hula
Hips over me, oh, I'm a circular girl

Ooh, baby I feel the spin
Turning me round and round
Taking me out of town
Ooh, I feel the spin
Messing me round and round
Making my madness drown

Ooh, I feel the spin
Taking me round and round
Throwing me out of bounds
Ooh, baby I feel the spin
Throwing me around
Driving me out of town

[Name removed]

170. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbolink]

102. Thank you, Cenk, for saying it like it is. This administration is determined to have a party-wide

Civil War... and they think they are gonna "win".

:rofl:

Oooooh, we skeeered!

[ClarkUSA]

110. No, thank you VP Biden, for "saying it like it is." Your baseless spin re: the WH is duly noted.

[ihavenobias]

111. Thank you for kicking this thread so many times!

Comments that do absolutely nothing to adequately refute the content of the original post make the kicks all the better.

:)

[ClarkUSA]

115. It's helpful to let others see who Biden was referring to (cue Cenk & his fans)and how right he is.

:)

[DirkGently]

108. Good piece. The "whiner" tactic gives the impression of abasing Dems before conservatives and D.C.

[ClarkUSA]

109. Biden never called anyone a "whiner". He said, "Stop whining" to the Perpetually Outraged.

Verbs carry a different connotation than nouns, although Biden's verb certainly hit a nerve.

The whining about whining hasn't stopped since!

:rofl:

[The Uncola]

131. Cenk should be the new Chief of Staff.

Obama could use some intelligent imput.

[bobbolink]

142. ooooh, well put! It would be refreshing, wouldn't it?

Except that I don't think Cenk has any real concern about poverty, so a whole lot of us would still be left out. "(

[ihavenobias]

143. Cenk on poverty this last week

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x509371

[The Uncola]

144. Thanks, you ...

.. beat me to it. :pals:

[bobbolink]

152. thank you for posting the link. I watched it.

He did a pretty good job, so kudos to him.

HOWEVER, this was when the poverty figures from the Census had just come out, and ALL media were "covering" it. He couldn't really ignore it then, could he?

When Cenk decides that this is something that deserves just as much coverage as other "progressive" issues, please let me know.

Otherwise, it will be just one more flash in the pan.

[Name removed]

146. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JTFrog]

214. "intelligent imput?"

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

This is just too easy....

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

Are you sure that isn't "imtelligent imput"?!?

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

Wow this thread has been revealing and priceless.

:rofl:

[laughingliberal]

135. It seems the White House is figuring out this isn't working.

Rachel did a segment last night with Sam Stein where they discussed the more motivational tone of the President's speech yesterday and showed a nice statement where the White House gave props to Maddow, Olbermann, and the progressive movement for 'keeping them honest.'

Now, if they'll get the memo out to their spokesmodels on the internet, we could spend time discussing the issues people are facing in their lives and why Democratic majorities are necessary to address those.

[glitch]

141. That would be nice.

"Now, if they'll get the memo out to their spokesmodels on the internet, we could spend time discussing the issues people are facing in their lives and why Democratic majorities are necessary to address those."

[CherylK]

148. K & R!!!

:applause:

[spanone]

149. lighten up, francis

[Divine Discontent]

150. +1 to take away the unrec that just occurred

[jgraz]

155. And one more.

Cenk nails it again. You know the "blame game" is coming.

[Divine Discontent]

160. yep, any losses are the fault of the liberal left online folks... yep, that's the ticket...

couldn't be the admin's capitulation to the neanderthals who put us in a horrible mess...

[jgraz]

161. By definition, if you lose politically, you employed a losing political strategy.

I think some of the blame might lie with the people who enabled that losing strategy and attacked anyone who raised objections.

[Divine Discontent]

164. well, whatever Rahm has advised surely has been a load of crap... I was so disappointed when O

chose him first thing after being elected. And of course, either his advisers or on his own guidance, they've went soft with the GOP and appeased far too frequently. But, like you said, by def, if you lose and it's not a theft election, then you employed a losing strategy... don't blame the voters!

[ihavenobias]

215. Did you see Cenk's interview with David Sirota on progressive critics of Obama?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlHFSD9_f1M

[alcibiades_mystery]

156. DVT...useless shit

[20score]

157. Very good!

[WillyT]

167. HUGE K & R !!!

:kick:

[docvet]

171. THIS...

is the way I whine about the garbage that has been passed as "CHANGE" until now...

[Techn0Girl]

176. K&R :) I see the Usuals in this thread are throwing Cenk under the bus with ....

...with all the rest of the Progressives and Liberals !

You know ... I'm beginning to prefer it under here.

[jgraz]

191. Party under the bus!

All the cool people are here. :party:

[Desertrose]

202. K..too late for an R but +1 anyway.

Well said!!!

"You didn't do too much government intervention as Fox News claims, you did too little. Too little to protect the average American, too little to help him or her get a job, too little to change the same old games in Washington. Almost everyone in Washington is there because they succeeded in this broken, corrupt system. If you make them happy, you've probably done the exact opposite of what you were supposed to do."

[amborin]

216. putting it mildly