Arianna to Progressives, Middle Class: "Obama's just Not That Into You"

[Techn0Girl]

From The Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-tv/arianna-obama-progressives-middle-class_b_744685.html

Arianna appeared on MSNBC's "The Rachel Maddow Show" Wednesday night to discuss Democrats running from their own party and platform in their reelection campaigns.

President Barack Obama's choice to attack the disaffected liberal wing of his party, as opposed to the conservative Democrats who are ostensibly defeating or watering down his initiatives, just weakens his image further, Arianna told Maddow.

"Maybe progressives and the middle class need to sort of face up to the fact that the President is not that much into them, that he would rather hang out with Larry Summers, or flirt with Olympia Snowe, or play wargames late into the night with General Petraeus," she said. "He has compromised his own arch-narrative. Remember, he set up a deficit commission before he set up a jobs commission."

Arianna Huffington, Sheppard Fairy, Paul Beglea ....
I wonder if the DLC is getting the message?

[Dawson Leery]

1. Coming from Huffington, I am deeply suspect of her motives.

As a rule, I do not use her or her blog as a source.

[EFerrari]

3. Is it just me or has Arianna never expressed an original thought?

[WinkyDink]

66. Just you?

[SargeUNN]

133. wow now that is an orginal rebuttal

You must be so proud to use something so hard to come up with. I am so impressed and will cling to your every word. :sarcasm:

[crim son]

187. I actually like your rebuttal.

It answers the question directly.

[EFerrari]

203. If you ask for a reality check, you have to be prepared to get one.

lol

:)

[Orrex]

71. Much like HuffPo, Arianna gets credit for having ideas simply by referring to ideas

IOW, it isn't just you.

[joeybee12]

81. Nope, you're right...while I agree with this, others before Arianna have said this

and said it better...she's nothing but a full-tim plagarist who herself likes to kiss up to celebrities.

[earth mom]

118. Sorry you can't handle the truth, but that was an AWESOME original thought by Arianna!

Arianna: :yourock:

[EFerrari]

212. I wasn't speaking to her veracity but to her

recycling of criticism of Obama that's been around since he named his cabinet.

But at least it's a nice change from hearing about my deep personal hatred of the president. :)

[pgodbold]

193. Nary a one.

[blondeatlast]

215. Not just you. nt

[Techn0Girl]

4. Her motive 2 years ago was that she was one of Obama's biggest supporters....

and she used the power of her News blog to help get him elected.


{it's getting crowded here under the bus - move over Arianna!"}

[Drunken Irishman]

7. LOL at your comment she was one of Obama's biggest supporters.

:rofl: Good one.

[Techn0Girl]

11. Yes she was - it's a well known fact.

If you have links that show otherwise you should post them because a smiley icon is a rather poor substitute for actual discourse.

[Drunken Irishman]

18. It's not a well known fact.

She was a supporter. That's about it. A lot of people supported Obama over Bush & McCain. She wasn't one of his biggest supporters, however. I remember a good number of negative articles about Obama appearing on her website throughout the primaries and certainly during the general.

[Techn0Girl]

23. You're really missing the point here.

And you are being blinded by your own odd need to be correct in what you perceive to be an argument . Let's see now... what individuals in other political parties blind themselves to the truth in order to confirm their odd belief system? Hmmmm.....

[Drunken Irishman]

47. But it's not the truth.

Pres. Obama has done more for the middle class than any president in recent history. He's passed one of the most progressive agendas we've seen since the New Deal.

It's not good enough for the former conservative Republican. Well that's her problem, not mine and certainly not Pres. Obama's.

She's constantly whined about Obama. Even while supposedly supporting him. The fact she can't find any positive in what he's done shows me the only person with blinders on here is her.

[ProudDad]

174. He's passed one of the most progressive agendas we've seen since the New Deal.

That's not saying much...

Even if it were true...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[depakid]

19. She doesn't show sufficient fealty for some

and thus, they take cracks at her and her site without considering what's said about record or the policies- and whether it's accurate or not.

I've seen people take cracks at Common Dreams (of all places) for the same reason.

Boggles the mimd.

[JamesA1102]

22. It that why she sent an undercover reporter into a private

Obama fundraiser to make secret recordings which she then released to the public to embarass him?

[Techn0Girl]

27. Why was he having secret meetings that would be embarassing in the first place?

And once again you miss my point - I am talking about a change of support from the election to now, not just with Huffington but with Progressive bloggers and commentators in general.


I can not see the relevance of what you posted to my particular point.

[JamesA1102]

29. It was a private fundraiser that

all candidates have. The relevance is that she was not a strong Obama supporter that you claimed her to be. Plus she has credibility problems dating back to 2000 when she lied about Al Gore to help Bush.

[Techn0Girl]

39. I don't think you want to understand the point so our conversation is at an end.

Also the faux facts about Arianna are tiresome.

[POAS]

52. But faux facts about Obama are ok? n/t

[Hekate]

163. Apparently so.

[JamesA1102]

60. No the point is about Arianna and the false claim you made

which you now can't defend so you are bailing. The sign of a true BS artist.

[Hekate]

162. Show me a candidate who has never held a private fundraiser...

... and I will call bullshit on that person in the sweetest possible way.

Hekate

[blondeatlast]

216. "...it's a well-known fact..."

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Stop it, my stomach hurts

[pgodbold]

195. ROFL .. crowded under bus ... sad but too funny.. ty

[WinkyDink]

65. A "source"? She isn't a "source" herself; she is a brilliant THINKER and OBSERVER.

[Mimosa]

145. Huffpo is the only popular 'liberal' alternative to Drudge

I may not care for A.H., and I agree with EFerrari that Ariana Huffington has never seemed 'original', but Huffpo in general is a good platform for liberals.

[NorthCarolina]

198. Why? Regardless of what you think about her personally, what she said is spot on. nt

[HuckleB]

205. No, it's not. -eom-

[DeSwiss]

2. K&R

Some people can't stand hearing the truth.

[jkshaw]

5. Also, Arianna is wrong.

[ProSense]

6. A few adjectives for Arianna

"easily panicked and prematurely discouraged"

"consistently short-sighted and willfully ignorant"


link

[Techn0Girl]

9. Yeah ... but she is a political force...and her dialog has shifted these last two years ....

and she is far from alone.

Whether one believes she is right or wrong is not my point.
The point is that the dialog amongst well known liberals is shifting from a strong support to overt criticism os the Obama administration and of Congress lately.
Arianna is only the latest - we have heard from a dozen or more this past week alone.

[Radical Activist]

13. lol. good ones! Also,

"judgmental bear"

http://www.hulu.com/watch/109061/the-cleveland-show-the-voice-of-arianna

[depakid]

20. Oh, the irony of that last quote

B-)

[Cant trust em]

8. I stopped reading HuffPo a while back.

Just too reactionary for me.

[Radical Activist]

10. Well, we're not really that into you Arianna.

Although I do like her talking bear character on the Cleveland Show.

I care much more about the tangible progress Obama is making on a wide range of issues than the petty slights Arianna is hyping in this interview. It says a lot that Obama's ex-Republican critics like Arianna and Cenk have to keep going back to the guilt-by-association games they've been playing since Obama chose his cabinet. If Obama were really the traitor they claim he is then they could point to a list of conservative agenda items Obama is pushing, like Bill Clinton did. Instead, they have to whine about Summers saving the economy from depression and speculate wildly about what Alan Simpson might do. Pathetic.

[Atman]

12. It's another media myth that Dems are running away.

I know. I work at one of the biggest political ad agencies in the country -- our clients are all asking that "DEMOCRAT" be featured in their ads, and even better if there is a picture of Obama, too. Again, the media is not reporting the news, they're trying to MAKE the news.

(BTW, I'm still at work as I type this...hour 15 for today. And all we do is Democratic and Progessive clients. And it's been like this for weeks already).

[Techn0Girl]

14. That's actually an interesting perspectve ....

And one that I would have no knowledge of. What I do see amongst the liberal and Progressive blogs (FDL, Digby, Alternet, ThinkProgress) is an increasingly critical appraisal of the current state of affairs. It happens to be one that I share so perhaps I am self-selecting . At any rate I find your perspective interesting.

I imagine the actual situation will come out in the November elections.

[Swamp Rat]

15. yep

[flamingdem]

90. Interesting, the pundits are focusing on themselves as valid news

What a crock. Huffington is a Class A power hungry self promoter and the slime is showing.

[Johonny]

16. why'd he cut middle class taxes then or

sign a health care bill that works for the middle class, or extend unemployment benefits for out of work middle class workers etc

now the very poor. They might not be doing that great, but it seems like what's left of the middle class is Obama's focus. Obama just hasn't been able to get programs together that get people out of the poor and into the middle class...

[Techn0Girl]

26. How much do you make Johonny?

I am truly curious - we're all anonymous here so it shouldn't matter.
I'm curious where you get that odd viewpoint regarding poor people and the middle class.
Tell me and I'll tell you - and we'll go from there.

[ArbitorA]

43. What's your definition of the middle class?

Specifically, what gross income range would constitute the middle class for you?

[Techn0Girl]

46. Depending on where you live I'd say between 30 to 200K

So I see where you are going with this so I will cut to the chase...

I believe your comments regarding Obama's benefits to the middle class are , in my eyes, naive.

The health care bill that you mentioned takes money OUT of middle class pockets , puts it into the pockets of Big Insurance , and leaves a middle class person with an unworkable policy. Some figures from the plan: A person making only 24K a year has to give 2000 up for an insurance plan that has a 6,000 deductible. Complete;y unworkable .

You mention extended unemployment benefits. Obama & congress reduced those benefits $100 a month last july and eliminated the 65% Cobra subsidy thus leaving millions of families without health insurance this year. They did this all the very same year that they passed $300 billion of tax benefits to business.

My point is that Obama and Congress have been throwing out breadcrumbs to the middle class while giving literally trillions to the big banking houses.

Speaking as a former middle class member (now on unemployment) , everything Obama has done so far has been worthless to me and those that I know.

Middle class tax breaks do you NO good if you do not have a job. They are worthless to me and 40 million other Americans. A 6000 dollar deductible health plan that I have to pay 10% of my meager unemployment income (if it was 2014) is worthless to me and 40 million other Americans. Six thousand dollar deductible? Might as well be six million. And I need that $200 a month to eat, to pay rent right now.

We need jobs. We need health care. We need housing.
This is all being taken away from us and just claiming that there was a Health care bill passed does not make it a USEFUL health care bill to anyone but the insurance companies.

There has been a documented wealth transfer in this country and Obama has not done anything to change that. If anything he has contributed to it.

[JamesA1102]

61. See this is where you lose credibility

Obama & congress reduced those benefits $100 a month last july

The President and Congress didn't reduce benefits. They increased unemployment benefits by $100 a month as part of the stimulus bill. That program ran out and the GOP blocked it being extended. But instead of being honest about it you've twisted the facts in order to blame the President and the Dems. That is intellectually dishonest.

[Techn0Girl]

96. No ... this is where YOU lose credibility ....

Who are you trying to fool James?

Congress REDUCED benefits last July just as I said.
And none of us have forgotten that we have MAJORITIES in both houses.
THE GOP blocked - nothing. The Democratic majority rolled over and LET those benefits expire. Using the GOP to excuse a lack of help to the middle class is fooling no one anymore. Not me. Not anyone anymore.

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JamesA1102]

176. That's just not true.

The GOP blocked the extention of benefits. When it was finally voted on only one Dem voted against it and only two Republicans voted for it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/20/AR2010072000556.html

Why do you keep making excuses for the GOP to attack Dems?

[area51]

94. +1

Each day, 273 people die due to lack of health care in the U.S.; that's 100,000 deaths per year.

We need single-payer health care, not a welfare bailout for the serial-killer insurance agencies.

We don't need the GingrichCare of mandated, unregulated, for-profit insurance that is still too expensive, only pays parts of medical bills, denies claims, bankrupts and kills people. Republinazi '93 plan:

"Subtitle F: Universal Coverage - Requires each citizen or lawful permanent resident to be covered under a qualified health plan or equivalent health care program by January 1, 2005."

"We will never have real reform until people's health stops being treated as a financial opportunity for corporations."

[bvar22]

100. ^^Tell it like it IS!!!

Recommend post #46 by Techn0Girl.

:patriot:

[Techn0Girl]

117. Let's "Sock it to 'Em" !

Well if you're going to bandy about '60s references ... LOL :)

Love your Anon icon by the way.

[ProudDad]

177. AMEN!!! (n/t)

[POAS]

53. Why the interest in that posters income?

You seem to assume that the viewpoint expressed is both odd and influenced by hte posters income. Do you similarly question whether Arianna's viewpoint is colored by her income level and consider it odd. Perhaps you think any viewpoint not in agreement with yours is odd which of course is "odd".

[Drunken Irishman]

17. It's remarkable how bitter Arianna has become...

I remember when Kerry was running in 2004 and she was on Jon Stewart. They were talking about how Kerry wasn't 'liberal' enough and how much of his policies might give progressives pause.

She said something profound: you don't try to rebuild the house while the firemen are trying to put the fire out.

Arianna was absolutely right.

Now she's changed. She expects Obama to not only put the fire out, but build the house at the same time.

Disappointing.

[Techn0Girl]

24. Well ad hominums aside... my point is that she is one of many....

liberal political commentators who are feeling this way.

[JamesA1102]

28. She's a liberal commentator? Since when?

In 2000 she wrote a column for the conservative Washington Times in which she repeatedly lied about Al Gore in support of Bush. She supported the Bush tax cuts in 2001 and currently stays silent on talk show while people like George Will and Joe Scarborough spew BS GOP talking points about them. Other than opposing the Iraq war, which other conservatives did as well, what qualifies her as a liberal commentator?

[depakid]

35. Since undoubtedly you don't read what she writes these days

or has written for years- I'm not sure why you'd expect a reasonable person to listen to your opinion.

Third World America, for example- or Pigs at the Trough aren't exactly right wing screeds.

[JamesA1102]

62. I read what she writes and haven't seen her write a column

slaming the GOP for trying to extend Bush's tax cuts for the rich or the GOP "pledge".

She's a millionaire who lied about Al Gore. She is playing the left for profit.

[Techn0Girl]

142. "She is playing the left for profit."

That's an interesting opinion.
Why should I believe it?

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JuniperLea]

183. Because she used to be a Republican?

It's a start.

Check out her political donation record:

http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.php?name=Huffington%2C+Arianna&state=&zip=&employ=&cand=&old=Y&sort=N&capcode=y6vss&submit=Submit

Contributor Occupation Date Amount Recipient
HUFFINGTON, ARIANNA
SANTA BARBARA,CA 93108 4/6/92 $1,000 Bush, George (R)
HUFFINGTON, ARIANNA
SANTA BARBARA,CA 93108 HOMEMAKER 4/10/92 $1,000 Rolf, Scott Richard (R)
HUFFINGTON, ARIANNA
SANTA BARBARA,CA 93108 WRITER 11/19/91 $1,000 Campbell, Tom (R)
HUFFINGTON, ARIANNA
SANTA BARBARA,CA 93108 WRITER 2/10/93 $500 Campbell, Tom (R)
HUFFINGTON, ARIANNA
SANTA BARBARA,CA 93108 AUTHOR 10/3/90 $500 Lagomarsino, Robert J (R)
HUFFINGTON, ARIANNA
SANTA BARBARA,CA 93108 AUTHOR 3/26/92 $344 Santa Barbara County Repub Central Cmte
HUFFINGTON, ARIANNA
SANTA BARBARA,CA 93108 3/17/93 $-1,000 Campbell, Tom (R)

[WinkyDink]

67. Ariana "stays silent"? On what planet? Not here:

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/liz-cheney-defends-bush-cheney-administrat

[JamesA1102]

78. That has nothing to do with the Bush tax cuts for the rich.

Didn't you read my post?

[Techn0Girl]

141. They are no longer "Bush" tax cuts for the rich....

If the Democrats allow them to be extended in November then they will be Obama's tax cuts for the rich....

just like this war is now Obama's war....
just like this the Patriot Act is now his act....
just like the trillions gong to bankers ... now are coming from him....
just like DADT is now his baby...

He can speak out and rally Congress against (or for) any of those things any time he chooses.
We elected him President to take responsibility of all those things.
They are his responsibilities now. I think he would be the first to confirm that.
They are his responsibilities now.
And ours.

[Name removed]

156. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JamesA1102]

213. That's just spin to excuse the GOP

and blame Dems instead.

[WinkyDink]

75. Keep reading ALL the posts below.

[JNelson6563]

73. haha "Liberal"!!

If she's a liberal then Faux News is full of 'em too!

:rofl:

Julie

[Hekate]

168. Arianna is not exactly "liberal." She's an ambitious climber who gravitates to power and influence

Interesting woman, clearly has a head for business, and good at dishing out clever witticisms. Occasionally we Dems can agree with her or find common cause with her ... but she's not what I'd call reliable.

Hekate

[DonCoquixote]

21. She is not like the common dream/fdl folk

The common dream/fdl folk were NEVER conservative (Jane hamsher working with Norquist notwithstanding) whereas many of us remember when Arianna was a conservative darling.

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. Useless DVT shit

[Tarheel_Dem]

30. These "professional leftists" sit around and circle jerk about their..

hurt feelings, all the while raking in the $$$$. The scales fell from my eyes pretty quick, once I came to the realization that these people don't serve the public good, they sit around and stroke each other's oversized egos, and create the news. There's lots of money to be made in keeping the American people polarized. While concensus & pragmatism is frowned upon, demogoguery is cheered, almost certainly ensuring that nothing actually gets done.

I can't believe I was once thrilled at the rise of the leftosphere. Little did I know then that they would actually make things worse. The climate they've created makes it impossible for the two sides to work together. I hope this president doesn't allow loudmouths like Arianna and Jane Hamsher to unduly influence his approach to governance, like the teabaggers control the current Republican Party.

P.S. Unrec'd

[depakid]

33. So the "leftosphere" is why the "two sides" can't "work together?"

Wow.

[Mimosa]

150. OMG, this party is really being yanked to the right.

And I remember when the D.U. mainstream was considered 'left-leaning.'

Now we have a member calling a person with an FDR type perspective a 'Republican.' *gag*

[JamesA1102]

63. Well said nt

[Uzybone]

103. exactly....Palins of the left

[butterfly77]

108. +1

[Number23]

210. Great points!

[laughingliberal]

31. K & R nt

[McCamy Taylor]

32. Huffington is an idiot who is obsessed...with herself.

[Scurrilous]

34. @#$% Arianna Huffington...

...and the yacht she rode in on.

[Techn0Girl]

37. Wanna Bet I can find a Picture of Obama shaking hands with Putin?

Doesn't mean he's a Communist does it.
Geez... what passes for political discourse in some people's minds these days...

[ProudDad]

181. Pretty amazing, isn't it...? (n/t)

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Techn0Girl]

38. Well then ... Mission Accomplished I suppose :)

[Diane R]

40. Arianna used to be a republican...I've been thinking she still is one.

[Tarheel_Dem]

41. And Cenk, and Ed Schultz. There's a whole cadre of 'em. (nt)

[WinkyDink]

70. You'd be "thinking" incorrectly. What, exactly, is your evidence? Neither her words nor deeds in the

last six years.

[ArbitorA]

42. This man cannot abandon himself

“I don't get it. The President came from the middle class. Grew up in the middle class. Ran for President as a member of the middle class. Why would he be "not that into" his family, his friends, his associates, his history, his life? It does not stand to reason that this assessment is accurate. He does not strike me as one who would abandon himself.

1. Health Care Reform benefits the middle class
2. Financial Reform, particularly the Consumer Protection Agency, benefits the middle class
3. Extending benefits for the unemployed benefits the middle class
4. Equal pay regardless of gender benefits the middle class (first bill signed into law)
5. Aid to states that kept teachers, first responders, etc., serving our communities benefits the middle class
6. The small business loan and tax relief bill signed into law benefits the middle class
7. The Student Loan Reform law benefits the middle class
8. The $20 billion secured from BP to aid those affected by the spill in the Gulf benefits primarily the middle class
9. Tax cuts for 95% of working Americans benefits the middle class (lowest rates in decades)
10. Cash for clunkers benefited the middle class.

I could go on and on.

Progressives, Democrats, Liberals, etc. circling the wagons to shoot one another benefits no one.

[Drunken Irishman]

48. Welcome to DU!

[JamesA1102]

64. Don't confuse the demagogues with facts.

They rather defend a millionaire former Republican who has a history of lying about Dems than give credit to this President.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

76. This is the argument that I am having with my father. I don't get it, either

He has accomplished everything the American Dream says can be done with hard work! And now he's out of touch because he did everything right? I still don't get it.

But then I realize that this is something that the so-called pundits are obsessed with: treating Obama as "the other," "foreign," "exotic," and "not like us."

This guy and his wife just recently paid off their mortgage and school loans. I don't know where ya'll come from, but in my neighborhood that sounds like "regular American" me. As American as apple pie!!!

With people like Arianna, we don't need Drudge. Just go to HuffingtonPost.com.

[bobbolink]

114. Absolutely! Fuck the poor folk. Yet, when that was said *before* he was elected, it was

"But, he grew up poor! Of course he is going to care about poor people! Of course he is going to help poor people! He was one himself!"

Now, you are all remembering that he wasn't actually poor, he was middle class.

Now that he is doing more than * did to shred the safety net, which you all think is just fine.

So, go ahead and be honest for once... finally say that you agree with him, and just don't give one shit about poor people.

Finally, be honest.

[Techn0Girl]

130. Young one - people "abandon themselves" all the time for money and power ...

I am not arguing that Obama has not done some things that benefit the middle class. Of course he has.
What I do argue is the effectiveness of his proposals vis a vis the amount of money he spent on Big Business.

Some cases in point:
1. In the biggest economic recession since the Great Depression, Obama (and Congress) continue to support a trillion dollar war on two fronts.

2. The Health care bill that was passed does provide some few protections for the middle class. However it provides an enormous cash flow to Big Insurance while leaving the middle class (in 2014) with what amounts to ridiculously ineffective policies (6000 dollar deductibles, etc)

3. Obama (and Congress) just passed this year 300 BILLION dollars of tax cuts to businesses (i,e, trickle down) while at the same time REDUCING unemployment $100 a month and ELIMINATING the 65% COBRA subsidy (thus leaving millions of unemployed without health insurance)

4 Student loan "reform" has dome nothing to stop the existing boondoggle of student loans that are bankrupting tens of millions of Americans by third party agencies.

5. Obama has said and dome nothing against the heinous "Patriot" Act encated by the Bush regieme that took away many of our civil rights we once had.

I can go on but you get my point.
I feel that , yes Obama has dome some things positive for the middle class, but he has refused to touch upon the real problems affecting real Americans. So far it has been , in my eyes at least, more of a dog and poney show than anything else.

[NanceGreggs]

44. Ah, Arianna ...

... the Absolute Darling of whatever A-List party she's currently invited to, or hoping to be.

Our dear Arianna seems to think that "who" one is wearing at the latest red-carpet event includes the latest political posturing - causes being accessories, and political positions being inter-changeable, based on how well they go with ones's shoes.

"Does being a liberal compliment my hair colour? Is 'conservative' 'IN' this season?"

Ah, Arianna, the Women's Wear Daily poster girl for "What NOT to Wear - if You're Serious About Politics" - or if you're serious about anything at all.

[Techn0Girl]

51. I feel your pain....

because it's hard to get the real pulse of America up in Toronto where you live so let me help you out.

Huffington is the editor of the news blog. Obviously she writes only a small portion of it. The writers include Bill Mahr, Dan Rather , Harry Shearer, and dozens of other liberal and Progressive writers, the least of whom Ms. Greggs has far more visibility and credibility in the overall media then ... well ... than anyone I imagine you personally know.

You can continue to dismiss liberal bloggers such as FDL, Cenk, Digby, and the HuffPo just because they don't conform to your own world view but you are in an increasing minority. In the aftermath of this November the people that I mentioned will be among those bringing together the Democratic Progressives and Liberals from the likely electoral catastrophe that will ensue. It will be those people bringing the Democratic left together because they were the ones who saw it coming and they were the ones who tried to fight against it and most likely they will be the ones that the Democratic Left will rally behind after the election. It will not be those who stood idly by parroting the catch phrases of a party faction that has lost touch with with those who put it into power to begin with.

So you can be as snarky to the Democratic left as you please Ms. Greggs, but after this November that part of the Democratic Party will remember who fought for it and who, in the end, became irrelevant.

[POAS]

54. Do you say that to all the posters here

that reside in other countries or are you selectively dismissive of expats and other posters living abroad.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

55. So someone from Canada cant comment on US politics but someone from Australia can?

Or have you just not gotten around to telling our Australian visitors in this thread to go away?

[POAS]

87. Are those crickets I hear?....n/t

[Spazito]

88. Gosh, excellent questions!

I certainly will await the response with great interest!

[SidDithers]

102. Me too...

:hi:

Sid

[DevonRex]

161. And the person living in Canada is a US citizen who actually votes.

You made a great point there. :hi:

[bobbolink]

107. Excellently well said. Thank you!

:applause:

[Techn0Girl]

112. You're welcome - and thank you as well :)

[NanceGreggs]

132. Your ignorance of what people in Toronto ...

... or any other major city in the world, have access to, see, read about, and are fully familiar with is truly astounding. You really should try getting out more.

Once out in the real world, you might come to realize that your hope of an "electoral catastrophe" in November is recognized as just that - not a prediction, but a "hope" - the disastrous consequences thereof to the country and your fellow citizens being of no interest to you whatsoever.

And I wouldn't put too much faith in Arianna; she has a proven record of changing her political stance as often as she changes her shoes.

I often wonder if people who are constantly casting themselves in the role of the marginalized, dismissed, persecuted "left" really desire all they say they do - after all, if they actually got everything they claim to want, it would seriously interfere with their "suffering" (real or imagined), and their need to speak about it incessantly.

Well, I must be off - we only got electricity here a few months ago, and it has a tendency to only work an hour or so a day. So I think I'll just take one of those new-fangled horseless carriages down to the general store, and trade a couple of beaver pelts for a jug of lamp kerosene.

[Hekate]

222. Chastisement for Nance: It is SO hard to applaud when I am ROFLMAO. What were you thinking?

I'm trying to alternate, but it's hard.

:applause: :rofl: :applause: :rofl: :applause: :rofl: :applause: :rofl:

:applause: :rofl: :applause: :rofl: :applause: :rofl: :applause: :rofl:

Hekate

[DevonRex]

147. Jaysus, get over yourself with your "Toronto" references about Nance.

For your information we have many, many ex-pats on DU and they have as much right to post their thoughts as anybody else. And they have the right to do it without reading your snide references to where they live - which is just a weaselly way of saying shut the fuck up.

[NanceGreggs]

154. Don't be too hard on her, DevonRex ...

She actually believes that people who live outside the US couldn't possibly know who Arianna, Bill Mahr, Harry Shearer and Cenk are - and require an explanation of same.

That kind of ignorance of the world is to be pitied.

[DevonRex]

160. Perhaps you're right. She might think Canada has no TV, no internet, no newpapers.

Do you think she believes you have radio stations in Canada? Paved roads and automobiles? OMG. Does she think that Canada has no mail service and that you can't mail in your absentee ballot from there?

:rofl: I'm having such a good time with this.

[POAS]

191. I have it on good authority that Nance sends her ballot

by dog sled.

[DevonRex]

196. LOL at dog sled. Mush!

:rofl:

[Capn Sunshine]

170. isn't that a little celebratory ?

If I didn't know better I'd swear I've seen that line on Newsmax. We're going to lose everybody! Yay ! I win!!!

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

202. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

211. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

109. She is what you'd love to be

She lives in the city I grew up in, not in the city that stamps my passport for entry. And she's right, the President is, for example, opposed to equal rights for all Americans due to his religious dogmas.
Interesting that you go after hair color (we don't use the 'u' here in the States) and what she wears, because, of course, she's a woman. So it is about sartorial choices and snark. Of course.

[bobbolink]

113. Excellent..... you made the same point that the anti-feminist bit is just waaaay over the top.

When women who tout themselves as soooo aware of women's issues get that hateful about other women, it is time to hang it all up.

It is over.

[Mimosa]

153. That puts off a lot of us who fought for feminism (and gay rights) long ago, Bobbolink

I didn't like it when people ridiculed Sarah Palin's wardrobe instead of her subtle race-baiting.

I care about style, personally, but I don't believe women should be judged by our hairstyles.

[bobbolink]

190. Exactly so. In 40 years, WE women are now setting ourselves *back* with this shit!

Just the other day I was saying to another older woman that I was in that second wave of feminism in Berkeley when it started, and was part of a couple of very fine consciousness raising groups.

Even then, we would have considered this kind of post (of course, we never dreamed of having computers then!) to be a sad setback. After all these years, and it is *women*, and those who consider themselves "aware" and "liberated", who are dragging us down to the level of pettiness and just plain counter-revolutionary, as we would have stated it.

Its times like this I want to throw up my hands and give up.... women who are willing to backtrack to a very unproductive stance like this are just sad.

Not only do I agree with you about Sarah (not to mention the fact that I am sick to death of seeing people spending so much time and energy on the likes of her, and ignoring some very desparately important issues!), but I thought the very same thing about the concentration here on the wardrobe of Laura Bush. If that was the most serious things that people could pick out, then we were shallow to the point of *deserving* to be ridiculed.

Thanks.... all of this hurts, and I appreciate knowing there are at least a few of us who still are able to focus on what is important.

:hi:

[GreenPartyVoter]

207. Is it an inborn or cultural thing? I know I have felt that urge myself to tear women down that

way. Why? Why is that urge there? I try not to act on it, but it still boils up in me from time to time, that cattiness, and it's all the worse because as a progressive I know better. :(

[mntleo2]

208. I have my own doubts about feminism in this time but ...

...it is not to be "catty" (which IS my name btw) or to be overly critical, but imo the 1960-70's feminism was about a bunch of upper income women who frankly did not have a clue about anyone else but their own class. While they gave lip service to lower income women and fancied themselves as "enslaved" and while they encountered mild misogynistic attitudes, in fact they were not experience anything NEAR the same type of enslavement as low income women, especially women of color.

NOW jumped up and down, whooped and hollered for Welfare Reform that only further enslaves women to this day,causing them life long and hopeless poverty, denying them any further educations and demanding they work McJobs for nothing, along with other "feminist" applause (yeah right, for themselves to hell with poor women). "Feminists" such as Hillary Clinton, who went around the nation with Turncoat Joe Lieberman applauding the "success" of Welfare Reform, which ONLY meant that the rolls dropped, they did not have a goddamned clue as to what really happened to the millions of women and their children who are now victims of their wild applause. Worse they do/did not WANT to know, they still prefer to live in their elitist pink-cloud illusion that they somehow DID something for women when in fact they only did it for themselves, while forcing poor women into that McJob only to be exploited and told their children are not worth their time, and that only prostrating before the Business God was doing anything important.

It was why I could not bring myself to support Hillary for president. I could not forgive her. I remember suffering low income workers workers who threw waffles at her NY office because she refused to so much as give one iota to these woman's burdens at whom she applauded working low wage jobs and becoming homeless without any resources, thanks to her "waffling" on welfare issues critical to these people.

So much for feminism for those poor people!

I would ally with feminism when it is actually for ALL exploitation and while many modern "feminists" go all out for women overseas enduring discrimination, they plug their noses and turn their heads away from their own people not realizing that in order to expect anything to happen "over there" you have to take care of your own house FIRST.

If people really want to be "feminist" they really need to see the plight in their own back yards, THEN start the rumble elsewhere. Unfortunately I do not see the American or Western "feminist" doing anything much but applauding the very thing that exploits them, working for The Man and kissing his toady ass, denigrating the important work women have done in our communities since the beginning of our existence, forcing women to work for some greed head and call that being "successful" when in fact they are behaving not much different than the exploitative, sexist, racist men from whom real feminists originally bucked against, they BECAME THEM.

Now,take Sojourner Truth there was a REAL feminist!

Pee-Ess: I was one of the original 1970s feminists along with Bobby. I was marching before most on this conversation had diapers. I am not speaking for Bobbie but I have great respect for all she stands for because as low income women we've seen it all ~ and laugh at the absurdity and freak parade we see from those "good looking women" about all that these people want to do to "fix" us ~ as if the institutionalized condition of poverty is our fault, when in fact they themselves depend on poverty's racist, sexist, and ageist suppression for their own benefit. As for me, I believe I was duped by a bunch of women who did not have a clue about me nor did they want one. The few that did want a clue, were used by those women just like they used women like me for their political footballs, they did nothing but make our lives harder.


My 2 cents

Cat in Seattle
.

[GreenPartyVoter]

217. That makes sense to me, thank you!

[bobbolink]

218. Beautifully said, Cat, and I applaud your courageous honesty! You are a LEADER!

Leaders step out into that abyss, and speak the truth in very plain terms, but usually, rather than applause and support, you get either silence, or shit dumped on your head.

My own experience was somewhat different, and what I apppreciated was women who accepted the thoughts and feelings of each other WITHOUT criticism, without "suggestions", without "fixing". It was truly a safe haven to just be ourselves.

That safe haven is what is liberating, and what does not exist.

This constant battering here at DU is weakening the very people who could help to get this country back on track.

You see the elitist side that the women's movement became, and cannot jolt itself out of. It is DEATH.

I respect and love you as a sister.

:hug: :loveya:

[mntleo2]

219. Yeah "death" is the right word for REAL feminism now

Thank-you for your kind words. I remember those "safe havens" too, but now, unless you are "of a certain class" we are no longer welcome, sad to say. We of the lower classes indeed NEED to become "echo chambers" for one another since few speak for us except ourselves unless they want to "fix" us (and continue the blame for a System they themselves continue and then wonder why it is not better). They "forget" that it is not only a moral, it is true, "Whatever you do with the least of these, you do to yourselves ..." Solidarity!

Because these "good looking women" who insist on kissing the butts of the very people that suppress them and become classist hogs themselves, perpetuating the very thing that not only discriminates against women, but ALL suppressed people with a whole lot of elitist classism where they remain purposefully blind, they only make it continue.

If these so-called "feminists" wanted REAL change, they would listen to the ones where things never changed one bit. it is getting worse for all they think they have done ~ like hear the birth-pang groans of low income women while stooping under the heavy load bearing the weight of these "good-looking women" while these "feminists" fly about "making change" that does little ~ and is coming for THEM next.

One time after church, I was railing about the abuse of women where "feminists" refuse to support or even give respect for "women's work" ~ you know the "women's work" of care giving and teaching and community weaving almost all women from all walks of life and all parts of the world do and have always done? I was saying that the most anti-feminist thing these "feminists" could do was denigrate this work, refuse to support it, calling it "doing nothing" and call it "trivial" while applauding paid labor as being the "only thing" worthwhile. My minister told me I was being too radical and that this only scares people. He said this in admiration, but it has stuck in my craw.

That so-called "feminists" call this work "doing nothing" is beyond the pale to me. It is why women lose almost $1/2 million dollars in their lifetimes doing care giving that feminists REFUSE to recognize much less go to bat for support, oh yeah one way ~ EXCEPT to try to allow these belabored women TIME OFF THEIR PAID CORPORATE WHORE WORK instead of allowing care giving (including volunteer work, community work, etc) as a legitimate choice for women that our society could support.

A woman who has worked in the home all her life supporting the wage earner while taking care of all the business at home, does not even merit a Social Security check when her own husband is unable to work, even if she could work for a wage if anyone would hire her over-50 self, and when his care demands all her time that is just as time-consuming and exhausting that occurred when she took care of her kids, her elderly parents and in-laws and now him. This "free" work saves BILLIONS in labor costs to our society than if we as a society had to fund, pay and support some agency and expensive non-profits to do all this work while the "free" care giver kissed some rich corporate toady's ass (if she were hired at all).

But has anyone heard a word from NOW reps or any other "good looking feminist" individual or organization for this "women's work"?

Anybody? ANYBODY? (crickets ensue)

Few and far between IF at all! God forbid unless all their support is not tied to some corporate whore, who they gladly support financially and any other way while never even considering the women doing this "useless women's work".

Cat in Seattle

[bobbolink]

221. "We of the lower classes indeed NEED to become "echo chambers" for one another "

That is exactly right, and should be obvious to any of us who have lived with this for any length of time.

We are under attack in this country, and unless we come together and form "echo chambers", we are on the "extinct" list.

However, we can now see what the result will be of us joining together... it will scare those who are threatened by us, and we will be attacked for it.

Charming.

[DevonRex]

178. Oh, look, another poster ragging on Nance for living in Canada. What petty bullshit. nt

[NanceGreggs]

201. I would "love to be" ...

... living in the city where you grew up?

Sorry for saying so, but when it comes to the criteria on which I base my place of residence, being in the city where "you grew up" doesn't even make the list.

[ArbitorA]

45. Awesome and Spot On!

http://www.cutesexyfunnyawful.com/2010/07/tracey-ullman-as-rachel-maddow-christiane-amanpour-arianna-huffington-barney-frank-and-megan-mccain.html

[BlueMTexpat]

49. Arianna is just "not that into" Progressive Dems ... not really.

She may have been an Obama supporter in the past but IMO she always jumps to where she believes the action/interest will be and I, like many others here, find her motives suspect. That is not to say that I don't like some things that she says or does. I do. It's just that I don't trust her. At all.
I remember her RW campaigning from several years back and have never really believed that this particular leopard ever changed her spots, no matter how well she can occasionally "talk the talk."

[depakid]

56. Here's another way to look at it

Like many others, I watched while Ms. Huffington slowly but surely changed how she thought about things back when she spent time with (now Senator) Al Frankin.

Now if there's one thing that takes courage, it's to listen to what others are saying- and take a look at what you've thought or done and take a sort of inventory of it. Think about things objectively and critically when confronted.

It takes a LOT of courage to do that- and more courage still to look at yourself and say: "gee, based on the facts I've seen, my worldview may have been skewed- even wrong headed or at least could use a little updating in light of the facts on the record that I've been presented with.

Arianna Huffington did that- and whatever anyone else has criticisms about ( I have my own) - that was an impressive transition that very few here would have the courage to undertake themselves in many if not most aspects of their own lives.

[WinkyDink]

69. "Motives" to what end? Money? She's got plenty. Power? She isn't angling for a job. WHAT "MOTIVES"?

[flamingdem]

92. This is the age of compulsive self promotion and media attention whoring - she's on trend nt

[BlueMTexpat]

50. Deleted as dupe. Sorry. n/t

[CTLawGuy]

57. the same Arianna Huffington

who, right along with Republicans, including her then-husband, advocated impeaching Bill Clinton over a blow job is now claiming to be Queen Progressive?

[depakid]

58. The accurate political science term would be populist

though in these sorts of times there's less of a difference on the face of the arguments.

[flamingdem]

93. I think "opportunist" fits the bill when you're all over the map depending on the moment nt

[Le Taz Hot]

59. Interesting reading the responses here.

I take hiatuses from DU from time to time and it's nice to have so many of the Party Loyal in one place. Saves SO much time.

[Lorien]

91. and they use the usual "attack the messanger" technique favored by the opposition

instead of debating the actual issue.

[WinkyDink]

68. Proof DU doesn't believe in personal evolution. AH endorsed KERRY in 2004. Here is more:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gCMpr9UuJMvBsW41RhZt3RNgEE-gD9IHLO081?docId=D9IHLO081
"Arianna Huffington pledges free bus rides to rally
(AP) – 20 hours ago
NEW YORK — Website publisher Arianna Huffington has a ticket to ride, one for everybody who wants to get to Washington from New York for the rally scheduled by Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert next month.
Appearing on Comedy Central's "The Daily Show" on Tuesday, Huffington told Stewart that anyone who arrives at her office in lower Manhattan on Oct. 30 can hitch a free ride on one of her buses.
She said her "promise" is to have as many buses as people to fill them.
An information sign-up list is on the website for The Huffington Post."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20017780-503544.html
"Arianna Huffington knows the title of her new book "Third World America: How Our Politicians Are Abandoning the Middle Class and Betraying the American Dream" is "jarring," but she says there needs to be a sense of urgency about the disappearing middle class."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1435442/The-most-influential-US-liberals-1-20.html
"Huffington, 57, describes herself as a "former Right-winger who has evolved into a compassionate and progressive populist" and has been dubbed the “queen of the blogosphere” by CNN. Now a committed Democrat, her blog The Huffington Post has become a popular and influential source of news and commentary that does much to set the mainstream as well as liberal agenda."

"Gwen Ifill speaks with liberal commentator, online media magnate and author Arianna Huffington about her new book, which concentrates on the declining U.S. middle class."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec10/huffington_09-16.html

[NorthCarolina]

199. They attack her here precisely because AH is a true progressive.

They also come out in droves over Jane Hamsher, another true progressive. DU can unfortunately be hostile territory for the left-of-center crowd.

[gulliver]

72. Trying to stir up book sales on Obama's back. Real nice.

Huffington's book market for Third World America is the middle class. She knows that she needs to attack Obama to get Republicans to buy the book. The "he's not that into you" cliche is because she is getting old.

[WinkyDink]

74. Writing books is what writers of books do.

[dionysus]

77. and your campaign against the dems slogs on....

[SidDithers]

79. Arianna Huffington is about one thing...

and that's driving hits to her website.

Sid

[Monique1]

84. Arianna Huffington

reminds me of a tabloid. Wasn't she a republican at one time?

[bvar22]

127. So was Hillary.

Your point is?

[phleshdef]

80. Arianna, like a lot of the professional left, has good intentions but draws the dumbest conclusions.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

82. Progressives no, the middle class yes.

I think what Huffington misses is that most middle-class Americans (by most definitions) are not progressive, and Obama has chosen to appeal to the majority of the middle class rather than to progressives.

[JamesA1102]

95. very good point nt

[bobbolink]

194. Keep lying to yourself, and watch the losses pile up.

THEN, hold yourself accountable for those losses, instead of blaming those who ARE trying to reach the American public.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

83. Progressives no, the middle class yes.

I think what Huffington misses is that most middle-class Americans (by most definitions) are not progressive, and Obama has chosen to appeal to the majority of the middle class rather than to progressives.

[Techn0Girl]

123. Donald, I think November shall prove you incorrect...

We both shall see.
I have been alive over half a century and I have seen a great deal.
I have served our country for 7 years in it's military.
I voted for Nixon (the first and last time I ever voted for a Republican, fwiw).
I have made a six figure income for a few years.
I have been homeless for 18 months at one time .

I've seen how the mood swings work. And I have a feeling ....
My feeling is that this November will be (unfortunately) a Democratic disaster.
My feeling is that will send a message both to the Democratic Left and the remaining Democrats in office.
My feeling is that things will change in the Democratic Party - for the better this time.

But perhaps I am wrong. We shall know in 40 days or so.

[ecstatic]

85. This is really getting old... does every piece of crap

uttered have to be posted here?

[treestar]

86. That's just ridiculous

Obama talks about the middle class all the time, advocated for tax cuts, on and on.

[Lorien]

89. His actions would suggest that she's correct. nt

[bobbolink]

97. So, Arianna, you can't seem to remember poor people, either, eh?

Screw you, too, then.

[Lilith Velkor]

104. Word.

[bobbolink]

105. Tell me, because I don't know what the "word" is.

[Techn0Girl]

121. That's probably because you haven't put your baseball cap on backwards today ;)

(filed under the "Things White Boys Should Never Do" Dept. )

[Lilith Velkor]

128. Pardon the fuck out of me for using slang.

And FYI, I'm wearing mine frontwards today, because it's raining and I don't want my glasses to get wet. :)

[namahage]

140. Interesting.

Because wearing baseball caps backwards is what those black and brown boys do, right?

[Lilith Velkor]

125. It means, "I totally agree."

The likes of Huffington don't give a fuck about the poor, so why should we give a fuck about them?

[GreenPartyVoter]

200. I was just gonna say, what about the poor? Poor people have the right to vote too, so why

don't politicians curry their favor?

Oh, duh. It's because they don't care about people who can't buy their vote. x( (Sorry, did I say "people?" I meant "things." Just things to be stepped over or on. :mad:)

[FrenchieCat]

98. This Progressive to Arianna.......

You're so full of shit, you are bound to explode any moment.
Thanks for nothing, Money grubbing airhead full of manure! :thumbsdown:

[Tarheel_Dem]

99. Don't hold back Frenchie. Tell us how you really feel.

:rofl:






:yourock:

[Techn0Girl]

119. I can't presume to speak for Ms. Huffington....

But I can imagine that, regardless of how many scatological references you throw into your Internet post, she still wouldn't know who you are. And neither do I. And there is nothing in the content of your post that makes me want to know.

There is a distinct difference between a sensible disagreement of stated viewpoints and a junior high-school argument . Please get to know the difference.

[FrenchieCat]

144. I'm glad for the people that I know, and even more overjoyed of those I don't.

I believe myself to be just more important than Ms. Huffington to me,
So, short of a Gold-digger marrying up enough to have seed money
for an Internet trash mag, she's only impressive to some,
but certainly not to me. I have an accent too, so even that doesn't do it for me. :rofl:

[Techn0Girl]

146. "I believe myself to be just more important than Ms. Huffington to me"

Well good on you there .
You keep on believing that.

[FrenchieCat]

151. Is there a reason why Ms. Huffington should be more important to me than myself?

Or are you always compelled to respond, just because you can,
even if it makes not a lick of sense? :crazy:

[Techn0Girl]

152. Indeed not. I can see no reason why you shouldn't be the most important thing going in your eyes.

You see? We agree.

[FrenchieCat]

166. More important than Ms. Huffington (just to finish your sentence)...and yes, that would be correct.

And thank you for agreeing to something that should be common sense,
although initially, you appear to be saying that perhaps Ms. Huffington is supposed
to be more important to me than I am to myself.....which of course, as I previously stated,
wouldn't make a lick of sense, and would be indeed scary
as a thing to even contemplate, let alone actually believe.

Perhaps you were speaking only for yourself?
See, that I could see.

[Change Happens]

186. Right on!

:)

[bvar22]

101. This Libeal FDR Democrat to Arianna,...ThankYou.

K&R

[DevonRex]

110. Why the fuck would anybody listen to her? Okay, so she married a Puke who dumped her

because he came out of hte closet. That makes her knowledgable on what, exactly?

[Techn0Girl]

116. What makes you think your kind of a response deserves a reply?

If you don't understand what I am talking about than we have no basis of going forward with a conversation except to say that Ms. Huffington runs one of the widest read, if not the widest read, Liberal and Democrat leaning news sources around the Internet. What makes you think you are qualified to criticize her?

[POAS]

122. What qualifies him to criticize?

He's a thinking informed progressive voter who also lives in this country unlike some who criticize from down-under. Or is down-under OK but up north verboten?

[DevonRex]

169. Well, what makes you think you're qualified to criticize Obama but others aren't qualified

to criticize corporate media trash? Or do you think Huffpo isn't a corporation hell bent on making money? Go do some research about your little darling's lying statements about Al Gore circa 2000 and tell me she's ANY kind of liberal. She's a fucking liar with a crush on Maher whose sole intent is to dupe gullible "progressives" and make money in the process.

[JamesA1102]

173. Well said nt

[DevonRex]

175. Thank you James for all the information you provided to me about Arianna.

It is invaluable.

[JamesA1102]

179. You're welcome

It is amazing to me that so many would defend a millionaire who lied about Al Gore when she is attacking Dems.

[POAS]

120. An expert at making money on the intertubes

I hear that is all the rage these days, she's an advocate for profit.

[DevonRex]

188. Yep. And makes it by duping gullible people. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

111. I note the torrent of adjectives and characterizations of Ms

Huffington, I see the slams, the snark, the instant fall back to talking about her clothes and hair because she is a woman, but I do not see anything in terms of content, no factual counters, no mature responses of any kind. Running around calling people doody heads is not really discourse.
What a thread. The vulgarity and sarcasm that has become the hallmark of those who think they are supporting the President by attacking others, individually or as groups is always so entertaining.

[EFerrari]

115. There are plenty of genuine criticisms that could be made

but you're right, they really aren't made here and that's the new normal apparently. If you've read one of these threads, you've read them all.

[Bluenorthwest]

165. I don't like her much, but I like this tactic even less

It is a stinking tactic. The criticisms are of her, not of what she has to say, because they can not counter what she says, so they seek to attack her. Even if I don't like her, even if I don't agree with what she said, I'd not be talking trash about her hair and all of this other crap, ever. This is how Republicans act. It stinks like Arriana's workout room in August.

[EFerrari]

180. Agreed. I find her sort of annoying

in the sense that if I recycled other people's work and not very well, I would have been shunned by my peers.

But this other stuff is what makes me log off DU. It's not a defense of Obama. It's using Obama as an excuse for bad behavior.

[JamesA1102]

135. If you want facts about Huffington, here's some.

1. She was a Republican for many years. She doesn't dispute that.

2. She lied about Al Gore in 2000 in her Washington Times column.

3. She supported the Bush tax cuts in 2001 and now goes on shows where George Hill or Joe Scarborough spout GOP talking points about them and she doesn't dispute them or try to correct the record in any way.

[Techn0Girl]

136. You forgot the Fact that for the last 6 years she maintains the most widely read Liberal News Blog

in America.


There. Fixed that for 'ya.

[JamesA1102]

137. In which she allows conservatives like Joe Scarborough to write columns

and then censors all reader comments that dispute him.

[Techn0Girl]

138. So you're an avid HuffPo reader then I see ?

Good to know.

[JamesA1102]

139. So you agree that she lets conservative spew their BS without rebuttal nt

[Techn0Girl]

143. WTF? From who's behind did you pull that out of?

Not mine I assure you.

[JamesA1102]

155. I made the statement and you didn't refute it.

In fact you did the opposite by saying that I must be an avid HuffPo reader.

[Techn0Girl]

159. You already called me a republican in your statement above. I have nothing more to say to...

Disruptors like yourself.
Your agenda is clear, you are being disingenuous and are not worth my time.

[JamesA1102]

172. Buh-bye!

But I'm not the one defending a millionaire that has lied about Dems.

[Bluenorthwest]

164. Ironic. I'm not asking about her, I know all about her.

I'm asking about what she said, noting that no one speaks to that, but instead does what you are doing, talking about her, to avoid talking about what she said. I like that tactic even less than I like Arianna. See how that works? Speaking ill of a person I already don't like much is not going to mitigate the tactic I addressed in my post. I don't like the tactic. I don't like the target either, but that was not and is not my point.

[JamesA1102]

171. It's a matter of credibility for me

Why should I trust anything that this millionaire has to say when she has a track record of lying about Dems and as recently as a month ago sat silently by while people like George Will and Joe Scarborough parroted GOP talking point about the Bush tax cuts for the rich.

[earth mom]

124. What a catchy & utterly true comment! Middle Class: Obama's Just Not That Into You.

If only I could use it for my sig line. :argh:

[spanone]

126. arianna, he's just not that into you

[OregonBlue]

131. Huffington Post really? That's what's passing for news now? We have sunken to a new low here at DU.

[Quantess]

134. Who ever said it's news? This is commentary.

And she isn't exactly the only one who feels this way about the Obama Administration.

[democracy1st]

149. +1

[Name removed]

185. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DevonRex]

189. Your post is the new low, hands down. nt

[ProSense]

148. Here's proof:

In 2009 and 2010, the Making Work Pay provision of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act will provide a refundable tax credit of up to $400 for working individuals and up to $800 for married taxpayers filing joint returns.

This tax credit will be calculated at a rate of 6.2 percent of earned income and will phase out for taxpayers with modified adjusted gross income in excess of $75,000, or $150,000 for married couples filing jointly.

For people who receive a paycheck and are subject to withholding, the credit will typically be handled by their employers through automated withholding changes. These changes may result in an increase in take-home pay. The amount of the credit will be computed on the employee's 2009 income tax return filed in 2010 and the employee's 2010 tax return filed in 2011. Taxpayers who do not have taxes withheld by an employer during the year can also claim the credit on their 2009 and 2010 tax returns.

link

There was also the $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition, the $1,500 expanded earned income tax credit, the $1,000 per-child and more.

[Techn0Girl]

157. Tax credits do NO good to the 30-40 million unemployed in this country.

Let's put that $400 tax credit ($35 a month - whoppee!) in to perspective :

There are currently 155 million employed Americans (BLS stats Sept 21)
155 million times $400 = 62 billion dollars.

Amount spent on Business Tax breaks this year - over 300 BILLION
http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/07/news/economy/obama_business_tax_cut/index.htm

Amount spent on the Iraq-Afghanistan war FY 2010 : 171 BILLION
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

So ...at a MINIMUM ... half a trillion to Haliburton, Blackwater, Microsoft and Goldman Sachs
35 bucks a month to thee and me (well just thee reall since me is unemployed at the moment).

Perspective.

[ProSense]

167. Perspective:

Let's put that $400 tax credit ($35 a month - whoppee!) in to perspective :

There are currently 155 million employed Americans (BLS stats Sept 21)
155 million times $400 = 62 billion dollars.

What about the $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition, the $1,500 expanded earned income tax credit, the $1,000 per-child and more?

More perspective:

New tax credit for workers $116.2 billion
Extend patch for the alternative minimum tax $69.8 billion
Expand eligibility for Child Tax Credit $14.8 billion
Tax Cuts for Individuals Expand higher education tax credits $13.9 billion
Incentive for first-time homebuyers $6.6 billion
Increase Earned Income Tax Credit $4.7 billion
Increase tax credits for residential energy efficiency improvements $2.0 billion
Incentive for alternative vehicle $2.0 billion
Tax Cuts for Individuals Incentive for car buyer $1.7 billion

Total above stimulus benefits: $232 billion

Total complaining: $0

Perspective!

[ProudDad]

182. Perspective

Tax credits are no damn good if you don't make enough money to take advantage of them...!

What about the $2,500 expanded tax credit for college tuition, the $1,500 expanded earned income tax credit, the $1,000 per-child and more?

$1000 per child if you make enough money to take advantage of it...

While the average college tuition has risen to well over $15,000 - $20,000 per year...!???



More perspective:

New tax credit for workers $116.2 billion <-- If they're employed...

Extend patch for the alternative minimum tax $69.8 billion <-- the repubs wanted this too...

Expand eligibility for Child Tax Credit $14.8 billion <-- No good if you are among the bottom 2/5 of the population!

Tax Cuts for Individuals Expand higher education tax credits $13.9 billion <-- No good if you're among the bottom 2/5

Incentive for first-time homebuyers $6.6 billion <-- No good if you're among the bottom 4/5 who can't afford the down payment.

Increase Earned Income Tax Credit $4.7 billion <-- Finally something useful! Took a while...

Increase tax credits for residential energy efficiency improvements $2.0 billion <-- No good unless you've got the thousands you need to install

Incentive for alternative vehicle $2.0 billion <-- No good if you can't afford to buy one.

Total above stimulus benefits: $232 billion <-- dwarfed by the 14 TRILLION$ in tax cuts, subsidies and free money given to the banksters and corporations...



Perspective!

[Change Happens]

184. She is like the Sarah Palin of the left? thinks people are interested in her words?

I am progressive and I am middle class, run my own small business. Obama's time in office has been very good to me and my family.

[ShamelessHussy]

192. has lots of hits on du

not to mention a very popular blog.

fyi

[mstinamotorcity]

197. There are times when

I feel Ms Huffington speaks the way the wind blows. She has varied her opinion on several occasions.There are times when she acts as if she is for the President and when something doesn't go the way she says it should then she is putting him down. She knows exactly what kind of opposition the President has been facing since day one of his Inauguration. Does anyone remember Majority Whip Rep. Clyburn stating on Hardball that the repugs put out a memo stating to block any and all legislation by this President. They want him to fail.?

[HuckleB]

204. Huffington has no clue.

I don't despise HuffPo's political coverage, but it's not all that accurate, and the science and health coverage is nothing short of despicable.

[Frank Booth]

206. Anyone who considers Arianna Huffington a trusthworthy liberal commentator either

doesn't know her history, or is deluded.

She craves money and attention. If the Drudge Report hadn't already existed, the Huffington Post would have been slanted to the far right.

[depakid]

209. Well color me "deluded"in your estimation

:hi:

[bobbolink]

220. Isn't it interesting.... for how many years we complained about being called names by the RW, and

now we find that a huge number of people "on our side" were taking notes, so they can now turn the name-calling on us?

Don't you find that interesting?

After all, it made us LOVE the RW, so of course, we are going to LOVE the name-calling Dems.

Stands to reason, doesn't it?

[Catherina]

214. No he isn't Arianna. He made that despicably clear. Thanks. n/t