With Bible in hand, a fundie discusses politics with me

[Jeffersons Ghost]

While we were waiting to see a doctor at the Boston VA, I overheard two wing-nuts discussing politics. One said that Obama's problem is that he tries to be a "peacemaker." I guess he forgot to read the part that says, "blessed are the peacemakers."

I stayed out of the conversation until the one with Bible in hand began blaming the "welfare state" for all our economic problems. When he said that I stated that two multi-trillion dollar wars were the real problem. I said these wars will last 100 years or until they bankrupt the US. I also mentioned that all those jobs Bush exported to China didn't help matters much.

He said we needed the wars to keep us safe from terrorism. I told him that each person we kill in Iraq or Afghanistan creates more terrorists because their friends and relatives retaliate.

He finally asked what I thought of Obama Care. I said I didn't know enough about it to comment intelligently: But it wouldn't affect VA patients.

I don't think I changed anyone's mind. But I had to speak up for my beliefs.

Was I wrong?

[mymomwasright]

1. Absolutely not!

We all have to address stupidity when it is spoken. Most of these idots just like to hear themselves talk. Notice how quickly the subject jumped from topic to topic (typical pub spin).

[Jeffersons Ghost]

15. yeah, it was like watching FOX news

[MedicalAdmin]

20. I always keep em on topic when I talk to em.

They will try to change topics. THis is my technique.


I will interupt and just say that I want to make sure I understand what they are saying. Then I state that they seem to not want to talk about (subject a), is that correct? When they refuse to back down and say, "of course I want to talk about that," then I say "great, let's table that other subject for a moment and get back to it later then, is that OK?" Normally they will say yes, in which case you just have to go back and remind them that they agreed to stick to the topic.

If they say no then ask them what topic they want to discuss. And then stick to it and make sure they do.

The important part after getting them to agree to a topic is to hold them to that. Do NOT let them change subjects.


Sorry, but if you fall for that, you are falling for a junior high debate technique. Don't let them bounce around and don't forget to thank them for talking to you when you are done. It seems to fuck with their minds.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

26. that's a good strategy. you seem experienced

[grilled onions]

2. You Were Not Wrong

We have as much right to speak our mind as those who speak and don't seem to have a mind at all.War never seems to be a financial burden in their thinking nor does the fact of what war does to the troops,mentally,physically(for many the rest of their lives)as well as the war victims we destroy along the way. Peace doesn't seem to be in their vocabulary these days. But the words welfare state,illegals are and those two groups are taking the entire brunt for our shaky economy. Why minimum wage sets their teeth on edge but what a senator makes,gets in perks plus their sneaky pay raises at midnight sessions does not bother them at all.
We must hang tough. We must hang in there. Speech is our right as well. After all they preach the Constitution at every turn we might as well utilize it too!

[KatyMan]

4. I agree with this

I get so tired of it being "OK" for a fundie or conservative to say things or make comments but when I comment I'm called rude or told that I pay too much attention to politics....so sick of repugs...

[benddem]

3. good job

this crap about the welfare state really should have been talked down. Ask the patients at the VA (and I am one of them) if they aren't sucking at the govt's teat? Welfare is code for black unmarried female and there are fewer of them on welfare than white single mothers.

[SlimJimmy]

12. Well, not exactly ...

As a percentage of their specific population:

Black 39%
White 31%
Hispanic 25%
Asian 2%
Native American 2%

[Bill McBlueState]

22. but that's not what the poster said

"there are fewer (black unmarried females) on welfare than white single mothers"

She's talking about raw numbers, not percentages.

Of course, as in all of these discussions that have taken place since 1996, one has to ask, "What precisely do you mean by welfare?"

[MedicalAdmin]

21. Too true. Sitting at the VA and complaining about a welfare state.

[dkf]

5. Ironic that you are having this discussion at a VA hospital.

I bet someone out there would consider this fellow to be the recipient of a welfare state.

[txaslftist]

6. You were wrong when you labelled Obama a peacemaker.

He hasn't really done anything to warrant that label.

He's more of a kick the can down the road guy on the wars.

But hush now. The war isn't on the table this election cycle.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

10. you're right, which is why I didn't reply to that comment...

EVERYONE in DC seems to be a "kick the can down the road guy" when it comes to the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan.

[txaslftist]

11. .. and just about every other serious political issue.

and the can just gets bigger and bigger.

[treestar]

17. That's not true

That overlooks what he's done on the world stage. Plus he ended Iraq.

[Blue Owl]

7. Ask them to look up "Prince of Peace" in their Bible

Why it's none other than JC himself.

[OHdem10]

8. You were absolutely right. and everyone remember: The Fundies

will not admit you are correct at the time but they will
think about what you said long after you are gone. You
planted seeds of doubt about the spending on these wars.
They will think about this. This is how minds change.
@ billion per week goes to Afghanistan.

[gratuitous]

9. Respectful dialog is never wrong

And as for that "welfare state" stuff, your Bible-toting friend would be well advised to read Isaiah, Micah, and the gospels to get an idea of how highly regarded rulers and societies are that make provision for the widow and the orphan, and how blessed are those who welcome the stranger, feed the hungry, and clothe the naked. The prophet Samuel also had some pretty harsh warnings for the Hebrews about wanting a king over them, that the king would tax them heavily and take their children to fund and staff his war machine. The parallels to present day United States should be obvious enough for even the most stone-brained Bible thumper.

[AsahinaKimi]

13. Interesting that

Republicans call it "Obama Care". Using the term which is a part of the Fox News Talking Points. They won't call it Health Care. To them its like some "Democrat" pox forced upon the Nation, which they have to get rid of or God forbid, the Apocalypse will arrive too early.

[JuniperLea]

14. I think this is a good thing, and that we should all refer to it as...

Obama Care. That way, when it becomes apparent that it works, and that it carries with it opportunity for more change that will work even better, it's already set in stone who was responsible. ;)

[treestar]

16. Not at all. Sounds like you discussed things calmly and intellligently

[MedicalAdmin]

18. If anything you didn't go far enough.

And no, you won't change the mind of a fundie. In order to change it must first be open. Fundies are locked down tight.

[geardaddy]

19. You did the right thing.

It's funny that the one talking about the welfare state was getting government-funded healthcare at the VA.

Typical teabaggery.

[Bill McBlueState]

23. war versus the "welfare state"

Under the typical framing, this is just a difference of opinion. Democrats think we spend too much on war, Republicans think we spend too much on social programs.

But there really *are* facts in the world. Anyone who's concerned about balanced budgets should be concerned about our persistent outspending of the-rest-of-the-world-combined on "defense" before worrying that someone got too many food stamps.

[pokercat999]

24. We NEEDED the wars to keep us safe? Why, weren't his

prayers working? Guess God/Jesus wants us to kill A-rab, men women and children by the millions?

He's right about the "welfare state" of course, corporate welfare is killing us. And rewarding corporations for shipping jobs overseas is criminal!

Actually he should like almost everything about "Obamacare" as it is very close to the Rethug plan and had it been suggested by Bush the rethugs would have all voted for it.

[deaniac21]

25. What the hell kind of doctor's office has bible thumpers arguing

in the waiting room? That wouldn't even happen in backwoods Arkansas.

[unhappycamper]

27. I occasionally bump into bible thumpers in the Boston area.

I usually tell tell them I'm a recovering Catholic. If they keep on, I tell them "No thanks, get the fuck out of my face."