How would you react to a candidate who said: "I don't believe blacks and whites should marry."

[Meldread]

How would you react to a candidate who said: "I don't believe blacks and whites should marry."

After you answer that, there is another question you must answer. How would you react to a candidate who said: "I don't believe two men or two women should marry."

Now that you know your answers, ask yourself this question: What's the difference between the two statements?

If you would feel or react differently based upon the statements - ask yourself why.

This isn't about the person who makes the statement. This also isn't about liberal vs conservative, Democrat vs Republican, and it isn't about politics. It's about how you personally react to the statement - it's about self-reflection. Consider your feelings and actions, then share them here.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. I would react negatively to both.

Both statements are equally discriminatory.

[thunder rising]

5. What a surprise!! A liburul shows up on DU. Give this one a pony.

[thunder rising]

2. "Consider your feelings and actions, then share them here" .. WTF?

Post some nitwit statement the ask for opinions?

[tkmorris]

10. Not seeing a nitwit statement

Well actually I am, but not the one you refer to.

[Sanity Claws]

3. I don't think idiots should marry

They just beget more idiots.



That is what I'd feel like saying. But I wouldn't.

I probably would say that who people marry is not his concern. People should be able to marry freely; he has no right to control a person's private life.

[Odin2005]

4. K&R

[Drale]

6. He would be destroyed

like that judge who said the same thing a few months ago, and any politician who says they are against gay marriage instantly loses my vote, because at the very top of my importance list is equal rights for all. I try to tell people who want to withhold rights from people because of one reason or another, that remember it could very easily be turned to you losing rights.

[alanquatermass]

22. Did you vote for Obama...?

NT

[gateley]

7. I'd react the same -- I also hope you believe you won't get my vote.

Both bother me equally as being unjust and judmental and denying a fellow human being their civil AND human rights.

What prompted the question, pray tell?

[Meldread]

20. My own self-reflection.

I've been thinking about Tuesday and all the votes I've cast over the years. I've been thinking about marriage equality and DADT.

I then realized that I'm a solid Democratic Party vote. I even vote in elections where Republican's run unopposed and do a write in candidate. I've vote for candidates in the past who've been against marriage equality - Obama is just one example - out of many. I justify it by telling myself that the other person would be even worse.

Yet, were Obama - or any candidate - say that blacks and whites shouldn't be allowed to marry they'd instantly be dead to me. It wouldn't matter if both candidates held that position. I would outright refuse to vote for either of them. It would just be too repulsive to me.

Yet, here I am as a gay man, casting votes for people who openly tell me - to my face - that they don't consider me an equal. I'd breathe fire - I'd hate and condemn any candidate who openly displayed such racism.

I have to ask myself then: Why do I hold racist bigotry in a worse regard than homophobic bigotry? That's not to say that one should be worse than the other, because I consider them to be equally bad. It's just that I'm willing - as a gay man - to tolerate the latter, but not the former. I then have to wonder what that says about me and the message I am sending.

Despite the replies here to this thread, I also know that I'm not the only one here faced with this situation. We've all cast votes for such candidates.

[thunder rising]

8. You look at the OP, then the responses .. and you wonder how we lost an election?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

12. I don't think you're having very much fun today...

Based on your responses here, anyway...

Or are you just bitter over last Tuesday's election?

[peacebird]

9. I believe in equal rights - all humans equally treated - regardless of race, religion, orientation,

period.
Any two consenting single adults may marry, or cohabit if marriage isn't what they want. It is no skin off my nose either way. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect.

[FreeState]

11. I would never vote for a candidate that was openly racist

The Democratic Party as a whole is very good at not supporting racist. However, when it comes to marriage equality the party makes excuses after excuse for those on the wrong side of history.

Every single person I voted for on Tuesday is pro-marriage equality, and every single one was a Democrat. Thats one bonus of living in California.

[NotThisTime]

13. I'd tell them both to F off, and I wouldn't be polite about it.....

[haifa lootin]

17. I'd love to know a polite way to tell someone to fuck off!

Not that I'd use it...these kinds of questions bug me; I despise racists, bigots and homophobes but I can't get past my conviction that they have the right to be any or all of those things. I guess it's my own 'cross' of cognitive dissonance.

[Posteritatis]

18. "Pardon me, sir, but could I trouble you to please fuck off?"

:)

[haifa lootin]

27. LOL okay that makes perfect sense.

I may have to down a few shots of Crown Royal to try it out, though...:D

[Jamastiene]

14. K&R

[Meldread]

15. My reaction.

To the first instance, if a candidate had said they didn't believe blacks and whites should marry they would instantly be dead to me. I would refuse to vote for that individual - under any circumstances. I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

To the second instance, if a candidate had said they didn't believe that gays or lesbians should marry... the sad part is, I'd still vote for them. I've done it many times. I may withhold contributions and refuse to campaign for them, but that would entirely be dependent upon their opponent.

Yet, at the same time even if both candidates held the position that blacks and whites shouldn't marry, I still would not vote for either of them. I couldn't bring myself to do it.

The even worse part is that, not only am I gay, I don't see ANY difference between the two statements. They're both full of bigotry and prejudice.

This makes me very sad. I feel like I'm selling myself out. I wish I didn't feel like I had to do that - as if I had no other options.

I'm rather confident that the majority of people here hold to the same reaction and view as myself. Yet, when you think of it in these terms - it crystallizes things, doesn't it?

[ampad]

19. Yes it does crystallize things

I do not think you are selling yourself out. After all there are many people that will suffer under a Republican takeover. People who have no grievance against the gay community and wish to see them obtain civil rights. Unfortunately when you give the finger to the elected officials you risk giving the finger to the innocent as well.

[Meldread]

24. That is how I justify it.

But really, it isn't about the justification it's about the juxtaposition.

Why would I instantly consider a candidate who declared that white and black folks shouldn't get married dead to me. When, on the other hand, I consider that absolutely no worse than a candidate saying two men or two women shouldn't get married.

I can't think of any justification in the world that would get me to vote for a candidate who said the latter, but if they say the former - and they frequently do - I'm willing to overlook it.

I know I'm not the only one, so the question comes down to: Why? What does that say about me - and others?

Clearly there are many people who've come to this thread and thrown down the gauntlet declaring their allegiance to marriage equality. That's all well and good. It isn't about that, though. Clearly we're all going to be voting for Obama in 2012, and over the rest of our voting lives we're going to be faced with similar situations.

We can justify things to ourselves by saying compromise is sometimes necessary for the greater good, but at what point does compromise begin to hurt you instead of help? If a bigot knows that you're always going to come home to them, no matter what they say or do, then what incentive does that give them to change?

[ampad]

28. Wow it took me a while to find this thread

All the Keith threads are overflowing. I wanted to come back and say thank you. Thank you for voting for the rest of us while feeling so conflicted. Also, thank you for starting this thread from the heart. Your response has made me evaluate myself. You ask what does it say about you? In my opinion it says that you have something that many of us lack which is empathy.

Funny thing is that my husband is white and I am AA. We have experienced discrimination on many levels. However, we are allowed to be married and have a family. I could not imagine how I would feel if someone denied me the right to marry this wonderful man. I cannot say that I understand completely how you feel but on some level I can. Being a minority of any kind in America is no easy task. Having a black president has not changed the fact that bigotry is alive and well in this country.

I do think that straight progressives could be more vocal on the issue. As long as DOMA and DADT are allowed to stay in place no one wins. From now on I will try to look at the issue from the POV you stated above. What if someone told me that I could not marry the man I love. For me personally, I think that is a good place to start. (((hugs))) to you.

[BlueCheese]

26. You bring up an interesting point.

If I read you correctly, what you're saying is that you're more tolerant of anti-gay bigotry than racism, and that seems strange. I think implicitly this is because unfortunately the gay rights movement is much newer, and we kind of give a pass to people who haven't quite gotten it yet.

Maybe think of it this way--Abraham Lincoln's views on race were significantly less enlightened than Ronald Reagan's. But we don't think less of him for that--we understand that during his time society's views on race were generally more backwards, and that he was somewhat advanced for his time.

I think we think of people who are anti-gay today as we might think of a typical Northerner in the 19th century--certainly not leading the change, but not that far behind the times. It's still possible to attribute the attitude to ignorance instead of evil.

That's a guess, anyway.

[provis99]

16. I don't think Republicans should marry.

Or at least, they shouldn't breed.

[JNelson6563]

21. I would assume their reasoning would be that it's a "sin"

or in some way "wrong". I see each statement as equally wrong because love is never a sin, only the lack of it.


Julie

[sorcrow]

23. I hope that someday soon....

I hope that someday soon that we as a nation could just laugh at these idiots whether they're candidates or some other misguided individuals.
Laugh at them. Their views are just that ridiculous.
Crow

[TriMera]

25. Kick and rec. n/t

[HopeHoops]

29. Simple: "Fine. I don't believe narrow-minded bigots should hold elected office."