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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 10:14 AM
Original message
NYT "Obama's Enthusiasm for Gas Drilling Raises Eyebrows" plus more frack stuff
Edited on Sun Nov-07-10 10:27 AM by maryf
http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2010/11/04/04greenwire-obamas-enthusiasm-for-gas-drilling-raises-eyeb-33483.html

Obama's Enthusiasm for Gas Drilling Raises Eyebrows
By MIKE SORAGHAN of Greenwire

"President Obama's newfound interest in expanded natural gas drilling yesterday surprised many on all sides of the drilling debate, from environmentalists to drillers and even the coal industry. Representatives of drilling groups said they had no idea that Obama would make natural gas his lead olive branch to the newly empowered Capitol Hill Republicans. But they were pleased that he did.

"I was surprised by the venue," said Chris Tucker, spokesman for Energy In Depth, a drilling industry group formed to fight off federal regulation of shale gas drilling. Obama's remarks seemed to refer to vast new sources of shale gas in Pennsylvania, Texas and their neighboring states. Improvements in "hydraulic fracturing" technology have allowed production from formations under those states previously thought to be too expensive to exploit (E&ENews PM, Nov. 3).

<snip>
But not everyone sees gas drilling as so "terrific." Environmentalists are worried that the "hydraulic fracturing" technology used to pry loose the gas could contaminate drinking water.

<snip>
Environmentalists are careful to say they do not flat-out oppose drilling for natural gas, *** which burns twice as cleanly as coal. Some see it as a "bridge fuel" to replace coal and oil while the nation transitions to renewable sources of energy. But they are leery of the environmental damage caused by drilling, and they want to see substantially more regulation to protect drinking water supplies. "If we're going to have more natural gas development, it has to be done very carefully," said Dave Alberswerth of the Wilderness Society. "We have to have full public disclosure of the chemicals used, and we have to protect our groundwater from those chemicals by regulating them under the Safe Drinking Water Act."


Hinchey, Rep. Diana DeGette (D-Colo.) and Sen. Bob Casey (D-Pa.) have introduced legislation called the "FRAC Act" that calls for federal regulation of fracturing and increased public disclosure of the chemicals used."

***editorial comment from maryf: they should say SOME environmentalists, many oppose the practice of hydraulic fracturing totally, with good reason.


The evidence is huge that hydraulic fracturing destroys water's potability etc. While some say "Gasland" is not realistic, on seeing it I realized it is a very clear documentary on what has happened from this dangerous practice. Having gone to EPA hearings, NYS DEC hearings, and local discussions; I am extremely concerned about this practice.

Deep within a a second NYT article, after seeming to promote the financial benefits it mentions some disturbing info:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/business/energy-environment/07frack.html?pagewanted=3&sq=when%20rigs%20move%20in%20next%20door&st=cse&scp=1&src=tp

"In May, an industry-financed study conducted by the College of Earth and Mineral Sciences at Pennsylvania State University estimated that gas companies had spent $4.5 billion developing the Marcellus in Pennsylvania, generating $389 million in state and local tax revenue and more than 44,000 jobs. Mrs. Dean, for one, received $500 for the mineral rights under her one acre of land, and signed another deal to collect a 12.5 percent cut of royalties arising from the well across the road, whenever it started production.

Rowena Shager of South Gibson was another beneficiary. By 2007, she had negotiated a nearly $20,000 deal to lease her 57 acres. “I was going through a divorce at the time, and I really needed the money,” she said.

But by the fall of 2008, homes around the well began producing muddy water at the faucet, she said. Mrs. Shager, Mrs. Dean and a dozen other nearby residents contended, among other things, that Southwestern — through sloppy operations — somehow managed to pollute their water with drilling or fracking fluids.

“If I thought I was putting my family’s life in jeopardy, or taking away from the value of my property, I never would have signed,” Mrs. Shager says."


I will never forget the big burley farmer from PA who came to Binghamton, NY to speak against the practice to the EPA: It was the worst decision I ever made", his friend, another farmer said "hydrofracking is bad, it's poison" this after giving a patriotic spiel on how much he loves this country and our troops.

Some links for further research and consideration:

http://water.epa.gov/type/groundwater/uic/class2/hydraulicfracturing/index.cfm

figure it might be a good page to keep an eye on...


http://yosemite.epa.gov/sab/sabproduct.nsf/02ad90b136fc21ef85256eba00436459/D3483AB445AE61418525775900603E79/$File/List+of+Candidates-Hydraulic+Fracturing+Study+Plan-9-10-10+Final.pdf

http://yosemite.epa.gov/sab/sabproduct.nsf/02ad90b136fc21ef85256eba00436459/D3483AB445AE61418525775900603E79/$File/List+of+Candidates-Hydraulic+Fracturing+Study+Plan-2nd+List-11-1-2010.pdf

http://www.waterandhealth.org/news_center/in_news110510.php3

The major aspect of many of the msm articles on hydro-fracking that bothers me is the lack of discussion about the frack fluid composition which has been shown to contain benzene, toluene, and dioxins, all serious toxins and carcinogens...the waste water from the process is unusable, and the quantities of good water that get destroyed is very concerning.

editted to add second NYT link...



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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. This should make T. Boone happy
Better start storing drinking water now.

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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. It is terrifying, and the water profiteers are secondary beneficiaries...
Peak water, here it comes...
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. First more offshore and then more fracking?! With a "leader" like that...
...Dems will stay away from the polls in 2012 too and let a real Republican get elected.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Gee, can the Republicans possibly help the profiteers more??
Be pretty tough...
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I don't think so - it's heartbreaking. "Wolf in sheep's clothing" comes to mind. nt
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Heartbreaking is the word.
thanks. :(
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Thanks for posting the article - it's more reason to have a primary challenge...
I'd rather go down fighting for progressive principles than be voted out for being lame wanna-be Republicans.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. I'd rather go down fighting...
then see seven generations' chances be denied... :fistbump:
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. he needs to visit the towns with gas in the water...see first hand
how safe it is
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Not just the gas, the frack fluid too! but you are right...
Let him drink some of the water...I've heard some gas industry people won't drink the water they've said is safe...
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JitterbugPerfume Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
9. Frack that!
Edited on Sun Nov-07-10 10:34 AM by JitterbugPerfume
When our water supply is contaminated beyond repair , then we are contaminated beyond repair.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. how long can life survive without water?
any life...gas all can survive without. thanks.
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denem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
10. Dioxins? Link?
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Dioxins plus
Dioxin evidence is hard to find on a quick search, but is mentioned within some of these links below; I actually saw a freedom of information act document at one of the hearings I attended that a man had (and I am currently awaiting his email, and will share the info if I get it), it was in a list of the over 150 chemicals he had researched, dioxins were on that list. It is not difficult to find toluene and others however, scary enough wouldn't you say?

The industry says its a "proprietory" formula (like "special sauce" and kfc chicken???), and they are very close to the vest. reading the following links might help you.

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/environment/88/8822govc1.html

http://pubs.acs.org/isubscribe/journals/cen/88/i22/html/8822gov1a.html

http://www.nodirtyenergy.org/index.php?Itemid=164&id=115&option=com_content&task=view

http://www.epa.gov/air/community/details/oil-gas_addl_info.html#activity2
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somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
12. Obama: "Let them drink Perrier"
This is obscene.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Amen and thanks
welcome to DU!
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
15. More like lowers eyebrows. nt
:grr:
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. yep! nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Hi fellow NYorker!
Edited on Sun Nov-07-10 11:21 AM by maryf
What part are you from? I live in the Catskills now, but have lived in Western NY, Southern Tier, and Central NY, we're "safe" where I'm living now because of the NYC water sources (Schumer wants the city safe, one point for him, I guess), but I'm fighting for the state; we're the country's hope!!
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countrydad58 Donating Member (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Hi Mary!
I live in a small town near Utica. Town of Salisbury Herkimer County in the foothills of the Adirondacks.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. I know it!
beautiful!
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
21. I Attended EPA Hearing on Fracking
the place was filled with lobbyists, all signed up early to spew their propaganda on how safe fracking is. Then there were the land owners in Weld County C0, who were all more interested in money vs their own health, much less the health of people they can't see. Then there us liberals who were so disgusted with the whole process, many walked out!

But not me, I signed up to speak and was the last speaker. Shared the story about my Polio and reminded people how the spread of Polio was thought to be in water via swimming pools. All public swimming pools were closed back then, when people gave a shit.

Nothing will change, they will continue to cram their toxic chemicals in the earth, not knowing the consequences and not caring, one iota.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
40. thanks for speaking out...other sessions people spoke out as you
I attended the last of four sessions in Binghamton, and the vast majority were speaking out against the practice, take some kind of heart from that if you can... :(
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
22. Unrec...nt
Sid
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. So you're living in Ontario Canada and commenting on our
drinking water in Texas?
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. the southwesterners
have really been poisoned...add the nuclear stuff to boot...shame....:hi:
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Ever live in an oil and gas field?
Taste the water after 30 years of development?

Just wondering.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. why?
with folks like the gas companies, who needs enemas anyway?
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laundry_queen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
33. Why would you unrec?
You're not concerned about contamination of drinking water because of fracking?
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Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
36. You only think you did...
I neutered your unrec so take it back!

;)
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #36
49. thanks, if we could only neutralize the toxins!
:)
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de novo Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
38. Thanks for reminding me to rec. Another bad policy position
from Obama.

He's really racking them up!
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. follow the money...
the profit mongers are the ones pulling the reins...
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
23. k&r
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
45. Thanks
I noticed I've lost two recs since I last looked; it's sad that folks aren't cognizant, or don't want to be, about how the drive for profit is destroying the planet. :(
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Some folks here are really pro-profit.
That or they like the taste of gas in their water. People keep coming up with these stupid ideas, and they wouldn't gain traction unless someone gives them an acceptable cover. I wonder what spin is being cooked up to sell this here?
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. You know, the gas isn't the only thing...
Edited on Sun Nov-07-10 09:21 PM by maryf
methane has been getting in water for a long time, terrible as that is, (and this does make it more likely and more common)...it's the fracking chemical stew that will kill everything, toluene is a nerve and liver toxin, that alone scares me...

we have to get off fossil fuels of all kinds...the sun will do it all if we'd focus on getting that to work...
coming back to your point on edit...the pro-profiteers don't like the sun...there won't be peak sun for millions of years, and it burns...
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #47
55. I tried to reply to your question on edit above...the spin
is jobs and leasing money, poor farmers on the brink of foreclosure see the gas leases as a gift from heaven...until their water is destroyed and they have to ship it in for everything...kind of hard to keep up with their crops and livestock's needs...ching, ching...the water profiteers win too...wonder how many are in both gas and water?

Sorry I went off on a tangent above, valid as it might be...
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Altoid_Cyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
25. One quote that I saw from a Cambria County politician was very telling.
He said that the Marcellus Companies (Plunderers would be a better term) will be as important as coal used to be in his county.

Good luck with that comparison. This is what Cambria County and the surrounding counties gained from the coal industry.








Many more here: http://www.amrclearinghouse.org/Sub/photogallery/


The Marcellus destruction has the backing of Karl Rove and Dick Cheney which should be all that you need to know.

The Environmentalists in this area are pretty much all opposed to the industry, but when you have enough money and influence, I guess that even a (D)President can not see the long term damage that will result from this.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. Short sighted as all get out...
this could have instant repercussions that will cost far more than the profits they make...and the profits will be from short term sales as liquid gas to other countries as well...

The Iroquois had it right, consider all actions potentials for 7 generations.

Thanks :( for the photos...

(the whole process is done with Haliburton machines to boot...).
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
27. K&R nt
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
29. Just wait until he starts pushing liquid coal again.
nt
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Man...
:grr:
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
37. K&R. Thank you for keeping us informed about this.
All I can say is, wtf!
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. This has to be stopped
its as critical as the gulf, as critical as mountain topping, we have to stop the rape of the planet for profit to ensure our survival...
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. I live in PA where the Marcellus drilling is happening. You can't stop it now,
PA just put in a republican governor who is lifting the moratorium on uncontrolled drilling and is promising no regulations and no tax to pay for environmental damage. Plus the state house went republican to join the republican state senate. This is going to be the ugliest state in America soon.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. I am so very, very, sorry...
The people have to get out into the streets on this! Water is life...tell it daily... :cry:
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
42. Gasland
"The largest domestic natural gas drilling boom in history has swept across the United States. The Halliburton-developed drilling technology of "fracking" or hydraulic fracturing has unlocked a "Saudia Arabia of natural gas" just beneath us. But is fracking safe? When filmmaker Josh Fox is asked to lease his land for drilling, he embarks on a cross-country odyssey uncovering a trail of secrets, lies and contamination. A recently drilled nearby Pennsylvania town reports that residents are able to light their drinking water on fire. This is just one of the many absurd and astonishing revelations of a new country called GASLAND.

http://gaslandthemovie.com/

The gas companies are destroying the country. Obama should be ashamed.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. The movie is not glamorous at all, it is realistic
and very sad in many ways...the people whose water has been destroyed are amazing in their fortitude...
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #42
52. ps: thank you for the plug for the movie
I realized my post above might have been seen as criticism!
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
50. The lack of value placed on water is not comprehensible
How the fuck are you and your decedents supposed to live without fresh water, unreccers?

Suckling Obama's taint will not sustain the generations.

You have no loyalty to the land, people, or wildlife.

This is about the water you fuckwit motherfuckers! The water!
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Thank you! There is no life that requires natural gas to survive,
There is no life on this planet that isn't dependent, directly or indirectly, on water to live...thank you...Water is life...
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-10 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. What you said
:thumbsup:
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-10 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
54. Morning kick
to help stop water from becoming the new liquid gold...
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