State bans 'blackout in a can' caffeinated alcohol drinks

[The Straight Story]

State bans 'blackout in a can' caffeinated alcohol drinks

OLYMPIA — The state Liquor Control Board on Wednesday approved an emergency ban of caffeinated alcohol drinks, the type of beverage that sickened nine Central Washington University students last month during an off-campus party.

In the unanimous vote, commissioners said they took the action because of public health and safety concerns. The ban will take effect Nov. 17 and remain in place for 120 days while the board goes through rule-making procedures for a permanent ban.

Gov. Chris Gregoire is holding a news conference now about the ban.

In a news release last month, the governor said she is "concerned about the rapid market growth of pre-mixed alcohol energy drinks and their popularity with young people."

The six women and three men who became sick at the Oct. 8 house party in Roslyn, Kittitas County, had consumed Four Loko, a product some people have dubbed "blackout in a can." It is among some two dozen such products on the market that combine a stimulant with alcohol.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013395010_drinkban11m.html



http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013395010_drinkban11m.html

[SteppingRazor]

1. So people will just mix their own Red Bull and vodka drinks instead.

This ban is worse than useless. All it does is draw attention to the very thing these people see as a danger.

[Atman]

3. So? You can mix gasoline bombs in your garage, doesn't mean they should be sold at the Dollar Store.

You can do LOTS of incredibly stupid things. Why should we encourage the beverage industry to kill people for profit?

[SteppingRazor]

5. If that's your take, then why not ban alcohol altogether?

Booze is legal. Caffeine is legal. The combination of the two shouldn't be illegal.

[sixmile]

7. +1

As long as it's not sold to minors it should remain legal.

[SteppingRazor]

11. Mind you, I definitely understand that these folks have a legitimate fear about abuse...

I just think they should leave it to consumers to make good decisions. I admit I'm liberal with a kinda severe libertarian streak (particularly when it comes to social issues), so I'm probably a bit more unreasonable about these things than I ought to be. This sort of nanny-state stuff just really rubs me the wrong way.

[LynneSin]

16. The problem with 'good decisions' is this is a popular drink with young kids

First it's a cheap drunk with the beverages normally sold around $3/can. And since it's a Malt Beverage and not Beer, the amount of alcohol in them can be almost double of a can of beer. Finally the excessive caffeince can mask many of the common symptons of being drunk. That doesn't mean the person isn't drunk, they just don't know it and then think "Oh I'm not drunk I guess I can drive a car" or something stupid like that. And if you drink that much alcohol you are drunk even if you can't feel it because you're so wired - the excessive booze will act the same way in the body.

Alot of colleges have had problems with kids drinking this stuff and ending up with severe alcohol poisoning because they were so wired they had no clue they were that drunk.

It's a real issue.

[superduperfarleft]

21. So are cigarettes. And they cause things like lung cancer.

Should we ban them too?

[LynneSin]

23. Notice they have overly regulated the sale and use of cigarettes

And personally, if you (figuratively speaking) want to smoke your lungs out til you get lung cancer that's your choice. Most states have laws about where you can actually smoke so there is little impact to my lungs in regards to your (again figuratively speaking) smoking choices.

But I'm not keen sharing the road with some kid who thinks they can drive after drinking six of these because they happen to be very wide awake.

[Pavulon]

25. Everclear and Redbull.

everclear is cheap, 180 proof. Everclear and fruit juice mixed with redbull or just people snorting coke gets the same thing.

This issue is drama. Some kid is going to die over the weekend because they funnel vodka or take 21 shots. Because they are fucking stupid, not because it is legal to do so.

Stupidity is a constant and will be part of humanity for the foreseeable future.

[LynneSin]

27. Everclear is highly regulated too and there aren't many bars that sell it in a drink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_(alcohol)#190-proof

190-proof
It is illegal to sell the 190-proof variety in some states of the United States, namely California, Florida,<3> Hawaii, Iowa,<4> Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota,<5> Nevada, New Hampshire, New York, Ohio, Virginia, and Washington.

Everclear 190 is legally sold in Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho,<6> Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon,<7> Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Wisconsin, and Wyoming, and in some military stores within the continental United States.

151-proof
The 151-proof variety is legally sold in California, Florida, Iowa,<4> Michigan,<8> Minnesota, Nevada, North Dakota, Washington, West Virginia, and some other states.

_______________________________________________

I know the one time I bought it in Pennsylvania I had to sign a form before I could purchase it. Of course state stores are pretty weird in Pennsylvania.

[Pavulon]

30. In NC right around NC State, UNC, and Duke everclear

is available as is 4loko. Other then the local news scare stories there has not been any more observed damage from this drink.

So at any given time 100,000 or so kids are doing what they do and abusing alcohol. DWI is serious and kills people, I just dont see how this is adding to that more than any other beverage.

[superduperfarleft]

28. I very rarely ever agree with you about ANYTHING, but nail meet head. n/t

[Atman]

17. You have a good. I still feal there is a "...BUT..." in there somewhere.

IOW, we know Starbucks sells espresso. If you want to drink six of them, it's hard to stop you. We also know people drink alcohol, and the states have all sorts of various laws regulating it for various reasons. BUT, I see no reason we have to facilitate the delivery system. I mean, are you equally freaked out that virtually every pharmacy now keeps many cold medications behind the pharmacy counter and require ID -- and more -- to purchase even one package? Why do you care? Hell, why do I care? It just seems like one of those common sense things to me, but you're absolutely correct in that one man's common sense is another's rave. Who am I to make that call?

Thnx. Seriously.

[SteppingRazor]

35. I mean, I completely get your point, and the "meth ingredients behind the counter" comparison ...

is apt. I guess I just look at this as yet another strike in a long slippery slope of the government telling people what they can and cannot put into their bodies. Yes, some people are going to make stupid decisions. Hell, some of those people may even have tragic consequences because of those decisions. But is it up to the state to legislate morality and/or stupidity?

[Posteritatis]

14. Yes, a mixed drink is exactly the same as explosives. (nt)

[Atman]

20. No need for the sarcasm icon there...you didn't do it justice.

But you DID entirely miss the point. Lots of things are perfectly legal in and of themselves, but can cause serious harm when combined, so we regulate them and make laws to protect the general public from the various costs of their abuse. Such as legal cars and legal booze, which when combined often cause illegal drunken driving. Of course, I just agreed with the other poster about "Why should I care?" but I guess that's the problem with being a thinking person. I should instead just pick a side and dig in my heals instead of considering the various facets of the issue.

Thnx. Seriously.

[Posteritatis]

22. A thinking person wouldn't equate these things with bombs as though that's an argument. (nt)

[Codeine]

2. Our Anheuser-Busch salesman (they rep Four Loko in our region) was telling me

that California is considering something similar, and that A-B may drop the product themselves just because of the negative connotations and publicity.

[notadmblnd]

4. Well there really is nothing worse than a wide awake drunk

Especially if you're the sober one and you have to listen to them.:shrug:

[frylock]

6. next up: a ban of rum and coke..

why do people act like mixing booze and caffiene is something new?

[MadHound]

10. Bailey's and coffee,

Much better than rum and coke.

[LynneSin]

19. Yes but do you sit around and drink 6-10 of these in a binge?

This is a cheap drunk that is targeted toward people who are not experienced drinkers.

[LynneSin]

12. We have the same issue here in Delaware and I kinda see both sides

I mean seriously, what's stopping me from buying a 4pack of Red Bull and a bottle of cheap vodka and making my own drinks?

But the problem with this drink was the cost. Here in Delaware it was like $3 a can and since it was not only cheap but much higher alcohol, kids were getting smashed much faster than normal. And because of all the extra caffeine, they may not notice right away when they are getting to severe points of intoxication or alcohol poisoning. And mind you, if these people were at a club drinking this cheap beverage there's a good chance one of them could be driving a car later that night.

I have had Red Bulls & Vodka out at the clubs but those drinks were like $5 a shot and limited with the amount of vodka you might get in the drink. Therefore switching to a cheaper product like Four Loko means I could get drunk faster & cheaper than going with Red Bull & vodka.

[Pavulon]

24. Great, that would have saved me money in college..

I cant tell you how many times I got shit wasted in clubs near nc state. And you know how many DWI's i got 0. Because I took the bus back or got rides.

I remember when the mommy is here for you crowd wanted to ban everclear. It is cheap and works great in PJ.

This is people wanting to look busy, hey we cant fix any real issue so we will ban something.

[LynneSin]

26. For every smart person who took the bus home there are more who think they can drive

And you can't buy shots of everclear at a bar. I know in Pennsylvania to buy it you have to sign something ahead of time, but then again PA has those strict state stores.

Look people have been drinking caffeinated beverages since like forever. That's not the issue. The issue is someone is profitting off of a beverage that is targetted strictly towards young drinkers and many of them are ending up in the hospital because they are not responsible drinkers yet. I mean I am glad you were responsible, I tried to be responsible but I know I wasn't all the time. College is a giant experiment in seeing what you can get away with and that's what these drinkers are counting on to make their profit.

[Pavulon]

29. I want real numbers of 4loko vs other alcohol

regretfully those dont exist. I have not seen anything from a real source that identifies this as a problem. Only echo chamber stuff.

Plenty of idiots end up in the hospital where this is not sold doing stupid stuff. Driving dwi was not needed.

I dont think there is a profit motive here at $3 a can. I tried one and they are nasty, not switching over.

[LynneSin]

31. I'll start with Google. Alcohol content ranges from 6% to 12% (beer is 4-6%)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_(drink)

I realize that perhaps you and I aren't the market. I'm sure both of us have matured to the point that our taste buds actually want something with flavor and neither of us are drinking so we can get shitface rip-roaring drunk.

But in college that was different, I drank some awfully vile stuff in my lifetime because I was getting drunk with my friends.

Trust me, at $3 a can and this drink being as popular as it is - they are making a ton of cash. This stuff is about the same price as a case of cheap beer so why drink beer when you can drink this stuff and get drunker faster (and not realize it because you're wired to the max).

[Pavulon]

34. Feel free to link to CDC, NEJM , or other people who release scientific studies

and yes i drank shitty beer and bottom shelf because I was pretty broke. Alcohol impacts people differently. Some people are done after 2 drinks and are rendered fools. Others can drink much more and function, not just tolerance.

I not saying it is a great idea to drink until you puke, but not finding any real data on this product, like the data that shows cocaine has a negative health impact.

[Odin2005]

8. YAY, more nanny-state crap!

:eyes:

[Gold Metal Flake]

9. It's good for your rassoodock.

The Korova Milkbar sold Milk-Plus, Milk Plus Vellocet or Synthemesc or Drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-violence.

[Codeine]

15. Viddy well, my brothers. Viddy well. nt

[frylock]

32. right right?

[Posteritatis]

13. Glad to see the state has nothing else to worry about. (nt)

[LynneSin]

18. Seriously this is something to worry about

I know it seems like a joke but they've been having issues with the beverages here in Delaware.

The product is targeted towards young drinkers. Because this stuff has higher alcohol than beer, the kids can get drunker much faster but thanks to caffeine they won't feel the tell-tale signs of getting drunk. And because this stuff is cheap, they can afford to drink it and drink more than normal. At $3 a can, you could drink this stuff like it was beer but higher alcohol content can wreck havoc on you.

But they are getting drunk and many kids are ending up in hospitals with blood-poisoning or thinking they can drive because they are wide awake; thus causing alot of accidents.

[backscatter712]

33. Oh well, back to Jagerbombs...

CHUG AWAY!!!

[Initech]

36. Or as Charlie Sheen calls it "near-beer".

[muriel_volestrangler]

37. It is quite a lot of alcohol in one can

and that, combined with the caffeine and sweet flavour which helps mask the taste of alcohol and the initial feeling of getting drunk, may be a problem.

A 12%, 23.5 ounce can has about the same alcohol content as a bottle of wine. But this is a carbonated drink, and, especially in a can, the attitude of many people may be "drink it straight from the can, don't share it, and drink it fairly quickly before it goes flat". Yeah, I've finished off a bottle of wine (and more) without help, but not quickly.

$2.50 would be pretty cheap for a bottle of wine, wouldn't it? This does look like it's be manufactured specifically for the young person who doesn't really like the taste of alcohol, but wants to get drunk. I could see that some restriction (make them sell it in smaller cans? Check the duty being charged on it - can you get the same amount of alcohol through beer or wine as cheaply? If not, then the duty being charged may be screwed up) could be a good idea.