My doctor molested me!

[johnaries]

During my physical, she made me strip and she not only touched my testes but grabbed them and held them while commanding "turn your head and cough" - then, she actually stuck her finger IN MY BUTT!

Which brought back some repressed memories - Army doctors did the SAME THING to me!

I feel so dirty....

:evilgrin:

Sorry, but somebody had to say it. TSA searches are too invasive, but I don't think they're as invasive as the government monitoring my phone calls or reading my private emails. And at least we are FINALLY having the discussion about how far we are willing to go to "feel safe". A national discussion we should have had a long time ago.

[katnapped]

1. Nice false equivalence but try again... n/t

[treestar]

3. It's not false

there is an equivalence in undergoing something unpleasant on the grounds it may prevent a greater unpleasantness.

Quit trying to pretend you can just dismiss that.

[hlthe2b]

5. Equating an examination by a highly trained medical professional

to what TSA employees are doing is obscene.

[treestar]

13. Just saying that over and over does not do away with the similarity I cited.

You've done nothing in your response to handle that.

If you really believed things like that, you couldn't make it out of high school.

[hlthe2b]

18. Your snark does nothing to make your case...

It does, however speak volumes about you.

[treestar]

25. Another content free response

There is a similarity as I stated the first time - so far you've done nothing but attack on some non-applicable grounds.

Compare and contrast - can be done all the time and is. You can't force us not to think by incendiary language.

[hlthe2b]

32. I have wasted multiple posts countering your weak arguments

No longer worth it. Others appear more than willing to, however. It really isn't a challenge

[frylock]

48. we get it. you're scared shitless and are willing to do ANYTHING to ensure no harm befalls you..

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

[wickerwoman]

12. It's a false equivalence in that you give your doctor consent

whereas at the airport, you are under a kind of duress because if you don't agree you can't get on the plane and thereby lose money and time. Plus your doctor doesn't carry a taser and have a right to use it if you act suspicious.

[LisaL]

20. And if you refuse both a scan and a pat down you are facing an

11,000 $ fine.

[treestar]

22. Aren't you under the same sort of duress in the doctor's office?

If you don't consent then you don't get checked out and might risk whatever the disease was.

Trying to pretend this is different is just trying to dodge the question.

And you do consent with the TSA - no one is forced to fly - if they find this so terrible, there are other ways to travel.

In fact other ways are more dangerous.

[wickerwoman]

35. No you're not.

It's your choice to find out whether or not something is wrong. And if you aren't comfortable with one procedure, doctors can sometimes come up with another less invasive one. Whereas all of your options with TSA are invasive and humiliating. And again, they can arrest, question, fine and/or tase you for not complying whereas the worst the doctor will do is ask you to leave the office.

I'm in a position where I am basically forced to fly. I live in New Zealand. My parents live in the States and are getting older. If one of them were to pass away, I would have to fly back for the funeral. The "alternative" is to take a two week cruise which wouldn't get me back in time and would require taking a month off work- something most people can't afford to do.

There are serious social equity issues involved in saying "just travel another way". The rich can afford to do this and the poor can't. It's not just the cost of tickets- it's the loss of time and income.

[davidinalameda]

33. bullshit

you give your consent as soon as you buy that ticket because you know what the process is

if you don't like it, don't fly

[wickerwoman]

36. You buy the tickets months ahead of time.

People traveling today weren't informed of the new procedures when they bought the tickets.

And again, I live in New Zealand and my family lives in the US. I can't afford to take a month off work to take a cruise back for funerals, etc.

People shouldn't be put in a position where the options are "let the officer with the taser feel your privates" or "miss your parent's funeral".

[KansDem]

45. I agree...

I fly on Wednesday and my ticket was purchased a couple of months ago.

Now I find I might be subjected to humiliating scans and probes, and if I refuse, an $11,000 fine.

I wish I could refund my ticket and rent a car...

[KansDem]

43. If you have second thoughts, you should be able to leave the airport

...without incurring an $11,000 fine.

[zipplewrath]

14. It is false

You don't go to the doctor to catch a plane, and you don't go to an airport to get a medical exam.

And I think you might be unaware how man women avoid the "annual" because of the fear.

[johnaries]

6. Right, a doctor is a professional while a TSA agent is a......

well, at least both of them wear gloves.

[hlthe2b]

2. Really not amusing, sorry...

And, there sits at least one physician in a Wyoming State penitentiary that was convicted of raping his patients.

[johnaries]

19. Oooo, tough room.

[golddigger]

4. Do you have a crowd of patients in your room watching?

[LisaL]

7. Did she tell you that you will have to pay her 11,000 $ if you refuse?

[johnaries]

16. No, I had to pay her to do it. Something about "for my own good."

[LisaL]

27. So if you said, no, thank you, she wouldn't have done it and

you wouldn't have had to pay a fine? Do you really fail to see the difference?

[treestar]

8. One thing no one has done so far

Is admit the government is not liable as negligent if there is an attack. The most I've heard is that "I'll take my chances of terrorism." Fine. But then admit your survivors have no case against the government for failing to prevent it.

[johnaries]

39. That is a good point, and one that should be included in the discussion.

If hundreds of passengers die because the TSA doesn't do enough, what happens? What is "too much"? Where is the line drawn?

Personally, I think not being allowed to fly for refusing the procedures are enough but fining the passenger is going too far. But that's my opinion. What if that passenger refused because they were hiding a bomb? I think it's enough just to stop them from getting on the plane, but again that's my opinion.

[Pathwalker]

9. As someone who actually had a doctor grope me inappropriately,

I cringe at your choice of words. I understand why people are freaking out about this, but I don't fly, so I am safe from the TSA. The rest of our government's intrusion into our lives, not so much. But, I'm glad we found a line in the sand, even if it is too little, too late.

[Poll_Blind]

10. There is a difference between board-certified doctor and a minimum-wage-paid TSA agent.

I understand what you're trying to say, but the perspective starts to fall apart when you start thinking about the obligations, training and professionalism required of the two groups.

I reject the notion of comparing the two.

PB

[treestar]

29. So if they were professionals of some kind it would then be

comparable?

Here just seems to be a certain snobbery, these people must be sleazy because their job does not require as much training.

[Pathwalker]

38. How do you get that from my post?

The man who had his ostomy bag ripped is my my local area. Then there's that breast cancer survivor. I could not endure such humiliation, so I am glad people are getting angry enough to demand changes. And I consider the "professional" Dr. who groped me to be a sleaze of the highest order!
Personally, I want Michael Chertoff's role in this whole thing investigated.

[HereSince1628]

11. Of all things, the possibility that you are sorry seems most remote

The evil grin notwithstanding, you comments were pretty clearly intentional.

[johnaries]

34. I'm just glad we are finally having the conversation about

the invasion of privacy vs "keeping us safe." There has to be a balance. Personally, the TSA procedures don't bother me. Warrantless Wiretapping does.

[HereSince1628]

41. So what part of the -shall be secure in their persons and their papers

from unreasonable searches and seizures--is open to subjectivity? This is just another step along the same continuum as warrantless wiretapping. Just because it doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean that security of person without due cause as seen by a court is a right that should be ignored.

First they came for the _______________

Then they came for the _____________

Then they came for the ______________

And when they gore your ox? No one will be left to stand with you.

[uppityperson]

15. k&r for "we are FINALLY having the discussion about how far we are willing to go to "feel safe"."

[johnaries]

26. Thank you. Perhaps I should have posted that separately,

But I have a sick sense of humor and sometimes just can't help myself.

Thanks for pointing out the important part of the post.

[uppityperson]

47. Hey, I try to read the message part of OP's, not just the subject line.

[Individualist]

17. Fail.

[Fumesucker]

21. And this was against your will, right?

You really didn't want your doctor to molest you but had to submit in order that you could do some other activity you actually wanted or needed to do?

Edited for speling.

[LynneSin]

24. And I'm guessing his doctor did it in the waiting room so everyone could watch?

that's almost getting close to what you deal with when you go thru the TSA lines.

[LynneSin]

23. Seriously, not even close

I know you're trying but not even in the same ballpark.

When I go to my gynecologist I'm seeing a trained professional who I have asked to check for certain preventable disesases (for me it would be various women-only cancers like cervical or breast cancer). I don't have to go to the doctors, I could choose not to do this at all.

And if I do go, I am treated in the privacy of my doctor's office usually with a nurse present and I know this is a doctor who has spent years training to do what they do.

Going thru the TSA lines means that I will be publically groped by someone who has not had 8 years of medical school. And if I want to get somewhere further than a 6-8 hour drive I'm not really given much choice but to endure the humiliation.

[kenny blankenship]

31. But he's doing his best!

[tanyev]

40. +1

[kenny blankenship]

28. When your Dr. informed you of her intent to grab your junk, were you free to leave?

Or were you facing arrest and an 11,000 dollar fine just for trying to leave?

Stupid false equivalence is stupid.

[Cleobulus]

30. What a fucking disgusting and false analogy!

:puke: You should be ashamed of yourself, but then again, maybe not, some people have no decency after all.

[Renew Deal]

37. Well, I didn't expect that reaction.

Maybe people didn't read the entire thing.

[Zoeisright]

42. Wow. How stupid.

No need to see any more of you.

[spanone]

44. and you paid him/her to do it.

[quinnox]

46. Wow, just wow, someone groping your crotch is less invasive

than someone reading your email?? I'm speechless.