Is there anyone willing to give the Dems a break ?

[jaysunb]

If so, I'd like to open the discussion here.

[CTD]

1. Nope. Not tonight.

Maybe in time. Still too fresh.

[NotGivingUp]

2. nope. don't think so. nt

[AnOhioan]

3. Individual Dems who voted no....They earned my respect

The Party as a whole....no breaks for the enablers of on-going occupation.

[Purveyor]

4. A break from 'unwavering support' perhaps... eom

[Atman]

5. The freepers.

:shrug:

.

[anitar1]

6. No way. n/t

[Rainscents]

7. Hell NO!

[MH1]

8. Yes, but I can't hang around to discuss.

Briefly, there was no choice, as someone posted elsewhere.

I think the details and the communication were handled poorly by the leadership. However, I don't think it would have helped Dems, the US military, America in general, Iraq, or the world in the long run for the Dem party to "play chicken with a madman" over the funding.

I am proud of John Kerry and others who voted "no" because it was a sucky bill and poorly handled. But in the big picture I can see why some voted yes, and I am not about to leave the party over it.

[Arugula Latte]

9. Why?

They are the frickin' majority. They are up against an historically unpopular president. The country wants OUT of this illegal war.

Why did they cave? Why are they so fucking spineless?

Why do they deserve an iota of our forgiveness? They completely sold us down the river.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

10. Nope. No friggin' way.

They betrayed the hallmark position on which they were elected. That's a dealbreaker. For which, they can all go intercourse themselves, until bloody.

[scarletwoman]

11. Nope. Been doing it for far too long. I'm tired of being Charlie Brown to their Lucy. (nt)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

60. Great analogy.

[Skinner]

12. I remain a loyal Democrat.

Eventually, the sting of this vote will fade. It will take its rightful place as one piece of a larger (and hopefully better) picture.

But at the moment, I'm not really feeling particularly charitable toward the folks who went along with this.

[SharonRB]

17. That's about where I am, Skinner

I just hope people can get past this in time -- I know it's fresh and there's a lot of over-reaction going on. Things will calm down eventually. I've posted more below about how I feel, but I'm not read to write them off. They're still better than the alternative.

[stevedeshazer]

31. It's definitely not overreaction, I'm sick of getting kicked in the teeth

This has been going on since 1980. Life is too short. I've run out of patience.

This moment, with a President so despised and at near-historically low approval ratings, won't likely return in my lifetime. A newly elected majority in Congress had the opportunity to make an historic stand. Instead, today, they SOLD OUT THE PROGESSIVES who got them elected.

I'm getting too old to fight for corporate sellouts who run on a platform of not being quite as bad as the Republicans. Screw that.

I'll continue to work at the local level for progressive causes, because it has worked.

Unless Dennis Kucinich or John Edwards make some breakthrough, I'm done with national politics. It's hopeless.

[piesRsquare]

20. Exact sentiments here, as well.

I'm pissed this evening, but not ready to give up on the Dems.

To keep my upset in check, I'm reminding myself of that video of when a constituent confronted David Obey a while back. I can't remember the exact number, but Obey said it took 31 "efforts" to get to the point of scaling down the mess in Vietnam.

Ugh. Instant gratification takes too long!


Hi Skinner! :hi:

[Horse with no Name]

23. I agree.

I'm feeling like the homely girl that the quarterback invited to the prom and then stood up.

[Az]

29. Politics are far too murky

We are angry that the troops are not coming home now. But we do not know what went on behind the doors on the hill. I know my senator. He voted yes. He has spent too much of his career fighting people like Bush for me to accept that he caved for some special interest. I don't know what happened. But as I sit here I can imagine some scenarios that could account for this situation.

I remain a Democrat. If my leaders do not represent my positions then it is they that must go. Its my party. Its the people's party. I am not going anywhere.

[jaysunb]

34. We've been here, done that, haven't we.

LOL ! I sometime wonder if we are suffering from " battered wives syndrome? "

[Virginia Dare]

53. The bottom line remains, the DEMOCRATS..

are working to end this war by and large, except for a handful of them. The Republicans are obstructing the process. It's hard to maintain patience when there are people dying and the situation gets worse by the day, but I'm afraid that is what it's going to take. We need to step up the pressure, and not throw up our hands and walk away, I trust that is what our leaders will do.

[NotGivingUp]

13. maybe that's a good question for the next 19 year old that's gonna be killed in iraq. nt

[Wisconsin Larry]

14. No F'ng Way. I campaigned and donated my ass off in 2004 but

now I'm done. The only way I'll be back is if Al Gore comes in.

[shireen]

16. Edwards had the right idea all along

just keep sending the original bill with the withdrawal timetable to President Idiot ... he vetoes, they send the same thing back, he vetoes, they send it back, .... over and over and over .... that should have been the way to go!

[Wisconsin Larry]

27. Yes, Edwards was right. Pity no one in DC listened. n/t

[Virginia Dare]

57. I love Edwards, and I voted for him in the primary in 2004..

and really I mostly agree with him on this point, but in the same sense it's pretty easy for him to say that because he's not representing anybody right now. I can understand how the leadership could have felt that tactic really could have blown up in their faces politically, and they could have ended up in a worse position. It's always a gamble, and it's easy to tell other people how to play their cards.

[SharonRB]

15. Yes (she says sheepishly) -- I've been trying to avoid a flame war

But I don't think I'm up to a discussion now -- it's too fresh for everyone.

Briefly, am I disappointed in the vote? Absolutely.
But do I think it's a first baby step and that they will work slowly to make real progress? Yes.

It's not what I would have liked to see today, but for my own sanity I need to give them the benefit of the doubt and trust that they know what they're doing and that they have a plan. We worked too hard to get the majority and I am not going to write them off. What's our alternative? To vote for Republicans? I don't think so.

On the bright side, we got the domestic funding we needed and * won't be vetoing it.

On some issues (hopefully not the war) we're going to need to bide our time and if * vetoes legislation, we'll just have to do it all over again when we retake the White House. That's why it's so important to keep and build on our majorities in the House and Senate -- when we have a Dem president (hopefully Gore) we're going to need those majorities to enact the legislation we haven't been able to get through under *.

I could say more, but I'm off to watch President Gore on the Daily Show and can't think straight to write much more. Hopefully I won't get flamed too badly.

[jaysunb]

35. I love the sound of " President Gore "

any time.... :thumbsup:

[leftofthedial]

18. another one?

how many times does this have to happen before even the DLC operatives who post here recognize collusion?

[theHandpuppet]

19. NO.

Just hell no.

[Az]

21. Its gonna take a lot of explaining

And right now there are a lot of very disappointed people. Anger is ruling right now. As we learn more about what happened maybe we will come to understand. Or maybe they really are a bunch of cowards. We may learn that too.

[never_get_over_it]

22. No

we've had six plus years of this bull shit....they wouldn't be an opposition party always keeping the powder dry for the big fight that never came - and now they're in the majority because the majority because the American people CLEARLY SENT A MESSAGE TO GET US THE HELL OUT OF IRAQ and they fold to this freak - I don't get it - the freak has a 20 something approval rating WHAT are the Dems afraid of for the LOVE OF GOD - I swear to God there must be some black mail or bribing going on SOMETHING is just not right....and while they fart around more soldiers die - I CAN NOT STAND IT

[understandinglife]

24. NO. They now own the war just as much as Bush and his neoconster buddies do.

Period.

[leftchick]

25. no

fucking way. More blood on their hands. period.

[stevedeshazer]

26. Yes, if someone can explain rationally and intelligently why I should.

:grr:

Go ahead. Make my day.

[AlCzervik]

28. in a few days maybe, i'm angry and frustrated and i can't let it go right now.

[ToeBot]

30. no

[rucky]

What's keeping them from doing it again in September?

if not our anger.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[RiverStone]

33. No - they took my vote!

I worked, volunteered, canvassed neighborhoods, walked-talked-ran in protest of Shrub's policies, did phone banks, phone trees, phone books, went to meet ups, county fairs, party organization parties --- all to elect my DEM Reps and Senators.

I gave them my vote and I expect a fair return!

BOTH my DEM Senators from WA voted YES!

No breaks - fuck no! Tomorrow all they will get is an angry phone call to Patty and Maria's headquarters. They earned that.

[Telly Savalas]

36. Sure. I'll give a break to the 142 Congresspeople and 18 Senators who voted against it.

There's an even greater number of Democrats at the local and state level who are doing lots of good work.

[gravity]

37. Yes

I really think that most of the criticism toward the dems is uncalled for.

The truth is that they just can't do much to affect this war, unless you want to impeach Bush, Cheney, Condi, and the whole gang.

Cutting the war funding can stop US involvement in the war, but it is just a reckless strategy since there isn't a plan to transfer to the power to the Iraqis. It does nothing to ensure stability in the middle east after we leave.

[LSK]

38. Yes, because the Timetables wouldnt have kicked in until Oct anyways

This bill only funds the war through September. So whats the difference?

Although nobody cares for this little factoid tonite.

[jaysunb]

45. You are so right

Bush and his allies are now trapped....

[LSK]

46. red herring much?

[SharonRB]

48. That's really a good point that's been getting lost in all of the discussion

More people need to hear this. Once everyone cools down a little, maybe they'll understand this.

[onenote]

69. exactly

[Blue-Jay]

39. Nope. Fuck 'em.

Pussies.

[porphyrian]

40. You mean yet another break. How many should we give them?

Maybe we should count with lives lost between now and when they finally decide to do what they were elected to do. Or maybe we should count with each dollar of record profits oil corporations enjoy while hurling us into inflation (oh, they'll deny it, even have a hard time calling it a "recession," despite how obvious it is to 90% of us) with the cascading effect of raising gas prices to record heights. Or, maybe we should count all of the votes they probably can't get in Congress to do anything substantial, then use them to justify their compliance with an unquestionably impeachable administration's insane agenda.

When are they accountable for their actions? How do we demand accountability from our opponents if we can't even expect it from our own elected representatives?

[moondust]

41. Well, they are dealing with a madman.

The truth is that Dems would have never invaded Iraq in the first place and despite trying a number of different approaches in the past few months they still do not have the votes to get it stopped.

Now it's down to counting the votes again in September after Petraeus' mixed report. I still don't see any political progress being made by the Iraqi gov't to justify US troops staying there, trapped and held hostage by a madman with a veto pen.

[mudesi]

42. No. (nm)

[ecstatic]

43. Did they give the troops a break? nt

[Blue_Roses]

44. Yes.

most definitely.

[WA98296]

47. They have done NOTHING to deserve a break. They should resign.

[LWolf]

49. They've been given copious "breaks"

since GWB took office.

I'm willing to hold Democrats accountable for their failure to represent us well in Congress.

I'm willing to withdraw all support from the current so-called "leadership" and throw it behind the true leaders, who did not fail in their duties to voters.

Are you?

[deutsey]

50. They're already broken...n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

62. True enough

[Virginia Dare]

51. Yes, I am...

for all practical purposes, I truly think their hands are tied at this point, until some more Repubs can come out of their delusional fantasy world. In actuality, I think they were wise to take their lumps right now and come back to fight another day. Each time, they gain more leverage. The political machine in Washington turns slowly. The Vietnam war didn't end overnight and there was a hell of a lot more public pressure.

In truth, there are a handful of Dems and the vast majority of the Repubs who are obstructing this thing. Those are the ones that need to hear from us. My Repubby Congressman is going the hear from me.

[Blue_Roses]

63. I live in Texas

:argh: It's gonna take the walls to come crashing down before Cornyn will even budge. He is up for re-election, but who am I kidding...

I agree, with a republican President and a slight majority in Congress it's hell to get anything done. I think some here think that with just a few extra Dem seats in Congress now we can conquer, but unfortunately it don't work that way in politics.

[Virginia Dare]

65. It's slow and people are running out of patience..

I think things will start to crack over the summer though, this thing is nowhere near done.

[n2doc]

52. It's going to take time for me

And I hold them partially responsible for every Soldier and Iraqi who dies from now until we do pull the troops out. Bushco are the prime evil, but the Democratic Leadership has joined them as a lesser evil in enabling this.

People talk about leadership and bravery. We have precious little of either in Congress today. Leadership and Bravery means doing the right thing, even if it means the death of ones own career. But I guess that keeping the perks of office means more to these people than stopping an unjust war and Impeaching a criminal Administration. Even if all were tossed out in the next election, they would still have their lives and surely comfy lobbyist jobs as well. Can't say the same for the Troops or civilians.

[mmonk]

54. Not the ones that support bush and Cheney.

They are the opposition. They are an opposition that operates outside our laws and constitution. They are an opposition that threatens our system of government. Only dedicated republicans should support bush and Cheney.

[camero]

55. Not anymore.. they've had enough breaks

From NAFTA to Patriot Act(which many dems voted for) to IWR to no anti-corruption bill with any teeth.

They've certainly seen plenty of forgiveness from us. I'm just gonna write in any old name now and hope that so many do the exact same thing with different names that it shocks the political system.

[genie_weenie]

56. Let them tell it to Andrew Bacevich...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10318800

[Lost4words]

58. NOPE!

[Forkboy]

59. "hey hey hey....One break...commmminnnggggg up!"

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. No. Never. Giving politicians "a break" is to be undemocratic.

It is our responsibility as citizens to hold them accountable for what they do. Just because they have a (d) after their names doesn't negate our responsibility.

[baby_mouse]

64. Who cares? NT and OUT.

[sampsonblk]

No

No chance

[bryant69]

66. Yes i am

But that won't come as surprise to many.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[paulk]

67. yes

and this is still Bush and the Republican's war, despite the best efforts by many of the "faithful" here on DU to blame everything on the Dems.

Bush "won" this round - but the Dems are the only party that is, at least, trying to bring an end to the war. The president has veto power and the Senate, with Lieberman, isn't really our's when it comes to Iraq. It's going to be a long struggle to end this thing, and I suspect it's going to be a long summer, filled with opportunity for the Dem bashers on this board.

[jaysunb]

77. careful

you'll be accused of being reasonable or worse. :evilgrin:

[Beelzebud]

68. They reap what they sow.

[Hamlette]

70. yes but I won't type it out loud here

come back in a week or two and we'll be able to talk about it.

[tjwash]

71. My thoughts exactly.

[A wise Man]

72. While our troops are being used and killed

for these greedy corporate loving cheating bastards and the democratic congress running scared refusing to do anything about it. "HEL-L-L-L-L NO". I only wish now that Kucinich and Edwards take over first and second place over Hillary and Obama.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

73. Absolutely.

The moment these people are out of office and replaced with real democrats.

[jaysunb]

74. Are any of you feeling better this morning ?

I feel hungover :evilgrin:

[WillyT]

75. Sure... Where Do Ya Want It ???

:evilgrin:

[Edweird]

76. No. There would be no funding without their ACTIVE participation.

They are aware of the will of the people, and are blatantly ignoring it at their own political peril. They can no longer cry about how W "lied to them". They own this. They are complicit.

[A wise Man]

79. Seems that way to me

[slutticus]

78. Nope. If I was hired to do a job and I didn't do it...

....would my boss "give me a break"?

I don't think so.

As a matter of fact...I'd better get my ass back to work now.