If you're wondering why Obama seems to find it so easy to scold the left,

[Marr]

but can't seem to muster that same aggressive stance against the corporate far-right... if you wonder why he'd bring up the "public option" in his statements today when his performance on that point was such a disappointment to the left... I think I can help.

Blue Dogs/DLCers/New Democrats, whatever you want to call them-- their preferred constituency is big business. That's who they're talking to. By scolding you, they're really saying to their Wall Street pals, 'I'm with you, not those silly liberals'.

[prodigals0n]

1. An accurate assessment

Obama is playing to his true base.

[phleshdef]

2. Its tough love for those who would rather choke on their ideals than incrementally promote them.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. Deep.

[Myrina]

7. Oh yes, because half a shit sandwich is so much better than none at all

:wtf:

[bobbolink]

8. !!!

:applause:

[DearAbby]

13. Oh I have heard it being called the "SECOND STIMULUS"

The Wealthy need the tax cuts to stimulate them, yessiree. Rename the shit sandwich, TASTE GOOD NOW???

[Javaman]

46. Obama forgot to mention that it comes with a

french tickler.

[snooper2]

19. In most cases yes..

If you live in the real World

[Javaman]

47. either way you starve. nt

[snooper2]

61. negative

nt

[Javaman]

66. Lame retort. Let me know when eating shit is a nourishing breakfast. nt

[snooper2]

68. K, here ya go..

I heard that rabbits have to eat their own feces to stay alive.

Is that true? If so it's disgusting!

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker
Yes.

Rabbits need to eat the soft,light brown *Cecotropes*,as they can't absorb certain Vitamins/Minerals(Especially Vitamin B12 & K) when they first digest the food. So the Cecotropes are full of these essential vitamins needed for a healthy life. As goats & many other herbivores will re-chew the *Cud*,they digest the food & bring it back up into their mouth & re-chew it. Or in the case of Cows,they have at least 2 stomachs.
It sounds disgusting but is vital for a rabbit.

[Javaman]

70. Yet another lame responce. Let me know when you morph into a rabbit. Until then I'll stay human.nt

[snooper2]

76. So you got something against Furries?

[Javaman]

78. Since you choose not to respond like an adult.

I choose not to continue.

good day.

[snooper2]

79. Sweet, you have a good one too...

About lunch time...

No feces today, maybe a double down :)

[blackspade]

77. Well played....

:toast:

[bobbolink]

10. For your thoughtful consideration:

Personal attacks created such a mess here that the admins were forced to take note.

As a consequence, more attention is now being paid to personal attacks and spending more moderation time getting rid of them... to the point that Earl G. even posted about it.

Given that it was such a crucial element here, wouldn't it be wise of Obama to refrain from personal attacks against his "base"?

Again, for your THOUGHTFUL consideration.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

26. My thoughtful response

I think I'm just being a fan here.

Every time I scroll through a thread and see your avatar, I stop. I read. I consider.

I think, in the present context, you've identified a crucial element of what the White House AIN'T doing.

I don't often do this, but I invite you to join our conversation on The H.O.R.N. I think you'd be a valuable perspective.

[bobbolink]

107. Thank you for your invitation, but I'm not a football fan. Can't stand it, actually.

Thank you for the kind words, though. I hope some good thoughts come out of it once in a while.

[Catherina]

91. For your THOUGHTFUL consideration.

If Obama were posting here, he would have been banned by now for advocating right-wing policies.

Funny ain't it?

I wish I could rec your post.

[NoodleyAppendage]

14. Tell that to Ghandi, MLK, Che' and others.

I guess gays should just be content with incremental promotion? I guess African-Americans in the 60s should have been content to not be lynched? Ghandi should have just let the British kill a few hundred a year, instead of thousands?

GIVE ME A BREAK.

J

[kenfrequed]

57. percisely.

It required people pushing actively for incremental change to even occur. When the leaders decide to, rather than be the change they envision, but rather embody the compromise, then change for the better stalls between conservative desires to turn back change and the desire to compromise ideals.

[Lautremont]

67. I agree with you, but

WHY CAN NO ONE ON THE INTERNET SPELL "GANDHI"???

[prodigals0n]

15. It's cowardice from losers who would rather abandon their ideals than fight for them

Even when they hold the winning hand.

[Poboy]

38. Agreed prodigals0n, and welcome.

[prodigals0n]

41. Thanks for the welcome, Poboy

[fasttense]

48. Baby steps, baby steps all the time. When are we going to take Adult steps? n/t

[ddeclue]

55. Nothing ever gets done in increments except the destruction of our standard of living..

This isn't tough love it's taking your base for granted.

[Hello_Kitty]

72. And others would rather be useful idiots for the rich than stand for something. eom

[WinkyDink]

74. "Please, King George III, may we please stop all this 'soldier-quartering' for one month?"

[rhett o rick]

106. Well put Winky. Or do you go by Dinky? nm

[ProudDad]

80. To reiterate...

Because 1/60th of a shit sandwich is better than nothing...

[liberation]

88. "tough love" and there I was thinking the DLC talking points couldn't get any more condescending...

But then, maybe just maybe... the guy who campaigned solely on abstract ideals like "change" and "hope" ain't necessarily the one with the moral high ground for dispensing the "tough love" regarding ideals.

Whatever... At this point is just comical, really.

[rhett o rick]

105. Are you talking about our founding fathers? Good thing they didnt "incrementally promote" their idea

ideals. Your incremental-izing is losing ground.

[fascisthunter]

3. Oh most know this now

the sad attempts to spin this are nauseating. At least I have the love of my small family... in that regard I am lucky and the rich beyond imagination. Thank you mother, for I was born with a conscience, something most in DC don't have.

[caty]

4. When push comes to shove,

all we can do is vote. Then learn to adjust to whatever the winners throw our way so we can make it back to the polls and vote again. My problem is, if the Dems fail me, who do I vote for? I could never vote for a rethug.

[glitch]

5. That and their core ideology that corporations are serious adults, the people are unruly children.

Which is pretty childish when you think about it.

[hlthe2b]

9. Which makes the current heavy split in posting attitudes...

so bizarre. Thread after thread of DUers declaring their unconditional love for the man and castigating other DUers who remain unconvinced. Thread after thread of those still trying to understand or to express outrage that his anger was focused at the left and remarking how we have never seen that level of impassioned anger towards the RW.

I missed his speech, but will watch online a bit later. But, hearing Bernie Sanders right now, I find it hard to see how Obama could have convinced so many that were devastated yesterday, to become his unblinking devoted defenders today. :shrug: I look forward to seeing what it is he might have said to have convinced so many overnight.

[CakeGrrl]

11. Or, maybe it's a case of

dealing with a shitload of crap from Republicans who want nothing more than to derail his agenda and get him out of office, underpinned by a contingent of Teabaggers and their "Second Amendment Remedies"...

...and while you're trying to deal with this REALITY, Mr. President, you're being excoriated by the Left has not having done ANYTHING despite putting up a list of legislative accomplishments that previous Presidents haven't been able to manage in a comparable time span.

And while they're at it, the self-proclaimed "base" stops to accuse you of being a Manchurian Candidate, a corporatist, a weak, small wimp who can't get anything done.

Never mind that NONE of these Left detractors haven't done anything close to what you're trying to do.

But they want you to FEEL something, to CARE about them. And don't you call them names, because that's not the way to get them to support you in 2012, and don't you forget it!

But while you had better not scold the Left for their attitudes, YOU, Mr. President, need to "man up". YOU need one of Hillary's balls, as James Carville suggested. Otherwise we'll just find a REAL fighter who can really make things happen in Washington (even though Progressives haven't seen that actually occur in modern times).

But don't you dare be frustrated by ANY of this, Mr. President. You'll be tagged as a scary, unhinged, angry black man, not to mention keeping your "base" pissed off.

Yeah.

[Greyhound]

28. Got news for you, CakeGrrl. That ship already sailed.

But don't get too worried about it, I'm sure you're corporation will take extra good care of you and everything will be just fine once the "adults" are in total charge again.

Psst, the new republiks are not in office yet so it's best not to be mean to them when they have no power.:eyes:

[CakeGrrl]

35. What corporation? I'm unemployed at the moment

Cogitate on that one.

I don't want the Republicans in power. I know there's a vast difference even if people here misguidedly try to equate them with the President.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CakeGrrl]

36. I have no idea what point you're trying to make via that character-deficient insult;

My response to the OP was to point out that those who most vehemently and frequently excoriate the President, sometimes based on misunderstanding or misjudgment, simply can't handle having any of that even pointed out to them, much less returned in kind.

Based on the reactions here to his completely reasonable response, I think some people here would shit a couple of bricks, faint, and vaporize if he actually, truly gave back what he's been getting when it comes to criticizing the Left.

[Javaman]

42. There is an old expression in farming...

when you want a plant to grow, you don't piss on it.

Criticizing the very people who helped get him in power really won't win him additional support.

so while Gibbs calls us the "professional left" and Rahm called us "retarded", I recall yet another old saying, "you catch more flies with honey then you do with vinegar".

So while I understand what you are saying, I believe it would go a long way if the president would empathize rather than be critical of our feelings.

We on the "professional left" stand by the core principals of the Democratic party. Meaning those of FDR.

While he complains about us, he states that he will continue to fight against tax cut for the rich, while allowing tax cuts for the rich. But call me crazy, but that is generally called a paradox. And frankly, as hard a job it is to be president, he can't have it both ways.

(just a point, I'm not writing with anger, just writing reflectively)

[kenfrequed]

93. I disagree with his tone...

But I really could not find a solid difference between Secretary Clinton and President Obama when they were both candidates. There was a perception, based on his record, that Obama would be a bit more progressive, whereas Clinton was well known as a third way/DLC democrat. Neither of them were my first pick but at least with Obama we had the hope of a progressive. Sadly he surrounded himself with the DLC and bankers and here we are today.

I think the idea that Secretary Clinton would have made a better president is not supportable because all of the things that Obama has screwed up on consists of broken promises to the base that Secretary Clinton never made while on the campaign trail. The only reason she becomes a better president is by diminished expectations for progressives, hardly proof of her superiority.

[GillesDeleuze]

52. So you'd rather have a buffet

of shit sandwiches?

[ProudDad]

81. You do realize that most of us worked at some level

to elect the Hope that this man said he stood for, right?

Even up to and including a far-left radical socialist like me (mostly to help my Obamabot friends but a tiny bit because I was hoping for FDR-like unintended consequences)...

Those of us on the "left" were hoping we'd get SOMETHING reasonable out of the Dems...alas...

We got Nothing...

[bigtree]

12. he's 'scolded' the right infinitely more

. . . I'm sure that was lost on you.

[Javaman]

44. The only problem with that is...

we got him elected. Scolding the right is what he should be doing.

[ProudDad]

82. Posturing during his performance

in the Kabuki Theater... :eyes:

Played out in favor of huge transfers of wealth from us -- the lower 90% -- to the top 2%...

[Missy Vixen]

16. Here's the other reason

Mostly, he doesn't give a damn what any of us think. Never has, never will. The "hold my feet to the fire" was hot air, among many other statements that show he's less than interested in anything those who worked and contributed to see him in the White House think on any issue.

Obama and the departed Emanuel took a look at the polls, the possible slate of GOP challengers, and he feels fairly certain he doesn't need any help to win in 2012. It's a cake walk back to the White House. He knows it.

We've ALL been played.

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. He spent 20 minutes saying that the GOPers were dead wrong

Of course, you only heard the part that you think is about YOU.

Jesus.

[CakeGrrl]

20. Yep. It's down to hearing what people want to hear, not hearing what was SAID.

Selective hearing doesn't serve anyone well.

When one goes around telling people that Obama said only "X", when he in actuality said "X, Y and Z", that person will look silly to those who heard and acknowledged the entire thing.

Getting people to rec that selective interpretation on DU doesn't make it the truth. When you travel outside the DU sphere, it will make one look like they weren't paying attention.

[ProudDad]

84. Bla-bla-bla-bla

War is Peace...

Poverty is Prosperity...

2 cents for the "unemployed", $1 million for the rich is economic fairness...

They made me do it (whaaaa!)...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9714535&mesg_id=9723918

[liberation]

89. LOL

The problem is always those pesky liberals believing their lying eyes instead of taking the DLC narrative at face value. Isn't it?

[ProudDad]

96. You've got that right!

:hi:

[BzaDem]

21. .

.

[Marr]

32. ...and then gave them everything they wanted...

asking exceedingly little in return.

Actions speak a lot louder than words. But you only see actions that fit into your chosen view.

[Javaman]

45. Like I said up thread...

scolding those who got you elected won't win anyone additional support.

If he wanted to make this a learning moment, then let it be that. Educate us on the left. Instead he chose to castigate instead of educate.

And like you said, in the end, the repukes got everything they wanted.

[Jakes Progress]

59. This is the point they don't get.

Those who support almost everything Obama has done disagree with those who disagree with most everything he has done. But they bear a special burden. They need the ones who are disgruntled. Many of us were quite active in getting out the vote and campaigning for Obama. Now we are not happy with the way he is doing things. He needs us back. Those who support him fully need us back. Some think they will recruit millions of moderates and even a number of republicans. Obama seems to be working on this theory. Surely by now they can see that this ship has sailed. How many times do you get your hand burned before you stop sticking it in the fire?

So these two factions on DU don't agree. The group that praises Obama for reaching out to the republicans, can't seem to do the same and reach out to the people here that they disagree with. I'm sorry if we don't need their agreement as much as they need ours, but that is the way elections work. It is a matter of whether they can stifle their desire to lash out in order to achieve what they see as the greater goal.

They get tired of being called names for their faithfulness. I get tired of being called names for my principles. For my part, if you don't insult and belittle me and call me names, I won't return the behavior.

In the end though, you need my vote. I already have yours. Pushing people like me away and pissing me off won't do Obama and the DLC any good.

[truth2power]

51. Saying and doing are two different things. Obama is very good

with the rhetoric. In that regard, trying to read Obama is like trying to read the Bible. You can make it mean just about anything you want it too mean.

Which is the very reason, IMO, why there is so much rancor, here, about what Obama did or didn't promise during the campaign. If you parse almost anything he says, two people can take two (or more) different meanings from it. As I've said before, he makes all-purpose speeches. I think it's deliberate.

[Javaman]

62. "he makes all-purpose speeches. I think it's deliberate. "

He is a lawyer after all.

Never give your opposition, even those who support you, ammunition for attack.

That seems to be his angle.

So when we want specifics, he gives us generalities.

It's safe that way but it doesn't win him any support.

Like I said to my girlfriend last night, "oh great, another flowery speech. Heavy on the starch low on the protein."

[ProudDad]

83. He spent 20 minutes saying that the GOPers were dead wrong

and then he did their work for them...

Of course you entirely missed what he DID while listening to his lies...

There's a Class War going on and Obama's on the wrong side...

[Laelth]

18. k&r for the truth, however depressing. n/t

-Laelth

[BzaDem]

22. Just because you can't HEAR Obama bash the Republicans over and over again doesn't mean he isn't

doing it.

[ProudDad]

97. Doing what?

I see him doing their dirty work for them...

Kabuki Theater at its finest...

[somone]

23. Have-nots need not apply

[caty]

24. Even if President Obama

decided not to run for a second term, I would still believe that another Democrat would win. When you look at the defective gene pool that could run as a repub, any Dem would be preferable. I hate to say this, but we might be better off. If another Dem won, he would probably hold office for eight years. Couple that with Obama's four, and that would be at least twelve years with a Democratic president.

I really think that a lot of this is because President Obama did not have enough experience dealing with other politicians. Too bad he didn't run as vice president with another Democrat. Then, after four to eight years, he would have toughened up and gained the knowhow on dealing with the other side. Don't get me wrong, I really like Obama. I just wish he would stand up and step up for the Democratic platform more.

But then....woulda, shoulda, coulda. Can't change the past.

[tavalon]

25. I call them Republicans

The DLC are just Republicans, destroying the other party from the inside.

Republicans are the Party of Big Business. Well, nowadays, the Republicans are the Party of Terror. So, I guess there was an open spot. Nature abhors a vacuum.

[VMI Dem]

27. He is a self-proclaimed New Democrat.

[amborin]

29. K&R

[Raine]

30. Yup, it's a "dog whistle"

to their pals. x(

[RiverStone]

31. Will he scold the Dem that runs against him in 2012?

[GillesDeleuze]

53. name a single dem who could pull it off

just try

[Javaman]

63. Dean. nt

[yurbud]

33. yep

[BlueJac]

37. It is time for a real "OLD DEMOCRAT"

[Javaman]

50. An old dem wouldn't have a snow balls chance today...

Dennis is about as close to an old dem as you can get, yet he was virtually laughed out of presidential primary contention by the dem machine itself.

We are into a new reality.

A reality were unless you bow down to the oligarchy, you are done. They want players not objectors.

People who point out reality are the subject of character assassination. Look at Assange. They have yet to attack the message, they only attack the man.

This is part an parcel now of our political process.

Personal attacks are the way it's done now.

Anyone who doesn't prescribe to the status quo, is now labeled something that the news media can quickly spread like wild fire to destroy the person.

communist socialist hitler stalin whatever and in whatever combination; they are now the buzz words for anyone who is against anything the media and corporations are for. Before a reasoned argument can even be formed, the objector is labeled and cast aside.

As we slide deeper and deeper into our proto-fascism; content, character and substance is suppressed.

It's not even a cult of personality anymore, it's something far more shallow, something very base.

My hopes of a read FDR type dem fades with each and every day as our current democratic party slides further and further to the right and abandons the basic principles of of what it once stood for.

[BlueJac]

103. FDR did not bow down..........

shit he kicked their asses and talked about it in speeches all the time. Take a trip back in time.

[axollot]

39. Well the split of the 'democratic-republicans' has been sew back together

only problem is we do not have a party that is anything like the Federalists Party. We need an entire new party - but that takes time and money. LOTS AND LOTS OF $$$ - we need a fighter. I have never felt so duped.

Cheers
Sandy
for democracy, for the people not just the wealthy.

[dsharp88]

40. And yet, Mary Landrieu (D-LA), as blue a dog as they come, stood with the progressives.

But, yeah, I understand your point.

[peacetalksforall]

43. It is wasting time to make this red blue - there is a ruling elite running everything.

I think they took a step forward - they may not want to allow this red blue illusion to continue. We will be provided with their new constitution. It is the only thing that makes sense.

[young but wise]

49. Execpt he did scold republicans, and their stupidity.

[truth2power]

56. It's kabuki theater, just like when the banksters or executives from BP

appear before some Congressional committee. Members of the committee scold them and express disdain for their behavior. The execs. just sit there and take it on the chin.

I suspect that afterward they all go out and drink together and laugh about how they pulled the wool over the eyes of the American people. It's all pretense. :eyes:

[Javaman]

64. That's his job as a Democratic president.

however, pissing off your base by taking a lofty attitude toward us doesn't win him any supporters.

Like I said before up thread, he could have used this as a teaching moment, but it appeared that he was pissed (in his own never get angry or pissed over anything sort of way) at us instead.

That gets very tiring and frankly, it appears a trifle condescending.

[Catherina]

54. Rec'd. n/t

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mumblefratz]

60. I'm starting to get tired ...

of this constant caving into the Republicans without even forcing them to cast a vote that's bound to be unpopular.

While I'm all for extending unemployment benefits, I believe it's a crime to extend tax cuts for millionaires for two years just to extend unemployment benefits for one year. Plus the relative cost of extending unemployment benefits is much smaller than the cost of extending the tax cuts just for the top 1%. Where is the fairness in that?

I say let all the Bush tax cuts expire and then let the Republicans take the heat for holding middle class tax cuts hostage to tax cuts for the obscenely rich. Also let them explicitly vote against extending unemployment benefits during the worst recession since the great depression and then unemployed people might not be so quick to vote Republican simply because the Democrats haven't fixed 8 years of problems in only 18 months.

Finally what is this about reducing the employers contribution to my (and your) Social Security payments by 2%. What are the ramifications of this? Does this reduce Social Security benefits temporarily or is this merely the start of de-funding Social Security? And this is supposedly a *Democratic* president that's OK with this??? WTF

I personally will never vote for anyone that calls themselves a Republican however Obama would try the patience of a saint. He's beginning to lose my support and I'm starting to look at who the Democrats could get to run against him in the 2012 primaries.

[Javaman]

65. You hit on something that was the basic problem to this whole mess..

what prevented Obama from directly addressing the people of this nation about the cost of the tax cuts for the rich and the extension of unemployment benefits?

not a damn thing.

He could have simply stated in a national address, "the tax cuts for the rich will cost us 900 billion dollars, the extension for the unemployment benefits would be roughly 60 billion dollars". Which do you want? To help the people who are out of work in this nation or to give yet another holiday for the rich thus driving us deeper into long term debt? 60 billion or 900 billion? Your choice."

Any mouth breathing moron would have gone for the unemployment benefits.

Plus it clearly frames the repukes as being the money grubbing bastards they are.

But alas...

[Autumn]

73. He didn't want to

it really is that simple.

[Javaman]

75. Yup. Sad, isn't it? nt

[ProudDad]

100. I'm afraid you're right...

He is after all a Harvard Trained Lawyer -- the defenders of the Status Quo...

And a capitalist true-believer...

[Catherina]

92. Precisely n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

95. That's the kind of thing Reagan used to do all the time

In an alternative universe where Reagan was a liberal, he would have known how to pass liberal legislation.

[Stuart G]

69. How very sad this is,,,,but looks to be true........nt

[Locrian]

71. two parties

We dont have a traditional "democratic party"

We have a party that has evolved to fill the GOP slot when half of THEM went over to "The Crazy Party".

So we now have the corporatist supporting their "mainstream" guys (the new dem/GOP), while using the "crazy party" to play villain.

[bluerum]

85. ... and - we like spankings

[ProudDad]

86. We are witnessing the sounds and sights of the dying Empire...

First the rich grab and hoard everything they can...

And both right-wings of the Corporate War Party enable them...

[NashVegas]

87. Well, Who You Think Is Paying For Their Re-election Campaigns?

[Clear Blue Sky]

90. He can diss his base since the base doesn't have many options.

Stay home and not vote? Challenge him in the primaries? Politicians are out for themselves first and foremost.

[ProudDad]

101. This time I'm not only going to NOT vote for him

But I'm not going to lift a finger for him...

And will urge all of my Progressive friends to join me in actively working against him...

Bring on the Revolution...

[dflprincess]

104. As noted in the OP, he isn't dissing his base - he's speaking to them

He's dissing those of us who were foolish enough to believe he would represent us once elected.

[DeSwiss]

94. K&R

- Exactly......

This is the public option debate all over again,” pissed Obama says. Extending the Bush tax cuts for the middle class and not extending them for the wealthy is ideology. And sticking to it instead of dealing with reality is something cartoonish intellectual elites do in their silly elite newspapers made out of $100 bills smeared with caviar-based ink. And it is wrong.

Obama is telling us what we can’t do. And what we can’t do is stop giving tax cuts to the wealthy. Although Obama is criticizing others here, and trying to relate it to an aspect of the health care debate, he’s really criticizing his own campaign rhetoric. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aIvkT2L4ZQ&feature=player_embedded">Pissed Obama has evolved out of http://wonkette.com/429308/emo-obama-admits-defeat">Emo Obama in the month after the midterm elections, and Pissed Obama does not care what http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqn_P0JIYkU&feature=player_embedded">Campaign Obama used to say about things.

But yeah, he’s totally wrong about this being a “compromise” thing. The only person he compromised with was his http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca0n_4oK70Q">former self.

http://wonkette.com/431894/barack-obama-is-mad-at-you-non-normal-americans">~Jack Stuef, WONKETTE

[ProudDad]

102. K&R for YOUR post!

[Jeffersons Ghost]

98. K&R

[defendandprotect]

99. It's really laughable that anyone thinks Obama/Dems have "backbone" problems ....

what how steely their backbones are when they're doing something for corporations

while telling the people they had to do it .... for our sakes!!!


Everytime I see a post with something about how the Dems are so "weak" ...

I can't believe it!!