Biden just said us "moveon.org" types are UNSOPHISTICATED.

[Bluebear]

In interview with Blitzer, says not one voter in Iowa has criticized him for his war funding vote, that not every Democrat is a moveon.org type, and that most Democrats are more sophisticated than that.

Go sell it to your credit card companies, Joementum II.

[Individualist]

1. Typical DLC bullshit!

[lostnotforgotten]

3. My Sentiments Exactly

eom

[tanyev]

2. OK, but are we clean?

[Toots]

14. Hell no...moveon,org is a synonym for "Unwashed Masses"

"We the people" who dare to speak out are nothing more than the "rabble" to people like Biden. That is a major reason his candidacy has no chance in hell

[IndyOp]

68. I haven't taken a shower yet today... Maybe it's me...

:blush:

In other news, my Golden Retriever and Lab are VERY clean -- which explains why I am soaking wet and haven't showered yet.

[EFerrari]

4. Maybe he meant we're unpracticed in sophistry unlike himself.

[saras]

80. Exactly.

[EFerrari]

85. Welcome to DU, saras.

:)

[eleny]

5. I smell toast

[rucky]

19. Seriously. His brain needs to catch up with his mouth. n/t

[Bluzmann57]

6. Um...I'm in Iowa and I criticize him for his war vote

But then, he never appears at any real public q and a sessions. It seems that Mr. Microphone mostly appears at carefully screened events. Hmmm, now where have we heard that before? If he ever appears here in a truly neutral and public forum, you can bet he'll hear a LOT of criticism. From a lot of people.

[DemDem07]

13. Where you at in Iowa?

He is in eastern Iowa tonight.

[Bluzmann57]

31. I'm in Davenport

He will be in a town called Maquoketa, which is about 40 or 50 miles from here. But it is at a private residence and I have a graduation party to attend later on, so no Joe tonight.

[DemDem07]

52. It's graduation day here as well.

I hope we still get some attendees though.

[Bluebear]

20. 'Mr. Microphone'

:spray:

[Rose Siding]

107. Your letter to the editor about how biden lied on TV is writing itself.

;)

[acmavm]

7. I've dispised that petty, grasping, sleezy bastard since the Anita Hill

hearings.

Biden is a pig.

[chimpymustgo]

10. Same here. He's full of birdshit!

And we won't have to listen to him much longer.

[acmavm]

16. Please tell me you have inside information as to that fact. It will be the

best news I've had all week.

[chimpymustgo]

21. Just the clear trend of all the polls. He's going nowhere.

He can't possibly surpass Clinton, Obama, Edwards and Richardson. And with Gore waiting in the wings? I know it's delayed gratification, but the day will come, and it won't be too long. What a sell-out.

Keep hope alive!

[acmavm]

26. Oh, I thought you meant he was a goner from the American political

scene altogether.

Rats!

[stevedeshazer]

44. Bingo.

I never forgave him for his performance as head of the Senate Judiciary Committee during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings.

http://www.makethemaccountable.com/podvin/more/050626_CluelessJoe.htm

<snip>

Clarence Thomas sits on the Supreme Court because Joe Biden is a coward. As Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Biden allowed Republicans to hijack the Thomas confirmation hearings. He watched passively while the nominee’s perjury was overshadowed by vicious right wing attacks upon Dr. Anita Hill. Witnesses who were prepared to substantiate Hill’s allegations of professional misconduct against Thomas were not summoned because Biden’s top priority was mollifying his reactionary colleagues.

Biden became enraged during the Thomas hearings, but his hostility was not directed toward the Republicans who smeared an honorable woman or at the judicial nominee who lied under oath. Instead, the senator furiously denounced civil rights groups and women’s organizations that claimed they had convinced him to derail the nomination. “Joe Biden is not in anyone’s pocket!” he thundered.

The would-be Democratic presidential nominee may not be in the pocket of the Democratic base, but he is definitely in the pocket of Corporate America. Biden co-sponsored legislation to change bankruptcy law so that it increasingly benefits big business at the expense of consumers. He voted against limiting predatory lending practices and against protecting citizens victimized by identity theft. The senator also endorsed Paul Wolfowitz for the presidency of the World Bank, a position from which Wolfowitz will coercively transfer Third World resources to multinational conglomerates.

[acmavm]

47. Biden is so corrupt he belongs in a Democratic Hall of Shame right

along with Lieberman

<snip>

The senator also endorsed Paul Wolfowitz for the presidency of the World Bank, a position from which Wolfowitz will coercively transfer Third World resources to multinational conglomerates.

<snip>

But then again after last week's vote on funding the 'war' in Iraq, that place is getting pretty crowded.

[populistdriven]

62. kick!!! n/t

[Morgana LaFey]

118. Thanks for that info -- some of it I hadn't known. nt

[Madspirit]

51. Thank-you!...n/t

[hfojvt]

132. my mom likes him

at least she did before 2004. Sees him on TV alot, I think, and likes what he says.

[derby378]

8. Gaaaaaawwwaaaaalllllyy!!!

Well, shucky-darn, ah guess ah'm tew unwerthy tew ex-eeer-cise mah rahts! Hyuk!

[Double T]

9. 'know-it-all-joe' is an arrogant has-been politician

[DemDem07]

11. Good. That settles what question I am going to ask him tonight.

What a dork.

[MindPilot]

18. Oh please tell us how that works out!!!

I'm sure you will, and I'm hoping you get the opportunity!!

[DemDem07]

49. I'm certain I'll get the opportunity.

I will report back with his reply.

[DemDem07]

140. He's good, I'll give him that. He shows well too.

The last time I met him, the room was more informal, but he was more formal. This time he was at his best. His wife and daughter were there as well, seemed like nice normal {for DC power players :)} people who both sat on the sidewalk after giving up their chairs to two older gentlemen. I spoke at length with his daughter {as I did with Beau this spring at another function} and found both Biden youth to be the exact opposite of the Bush twin morans.

The event lasted just shy of two hours and Joe made himself available to anyone who had questions after his stump speech. He even asked his staffers to help us clean up the venue while he himself helped carry chairs with the rest of us back into the building.

Short version on his plans;

Universal Healthcare and Iraq will take time. Given a chance to sell them at length, his thoughts aren't completely whack.

Yet with energy he proposed an Apollo project. He touted his record on corn-gas (ethanol) but also had the stones to tell Iowans that corn isn't a viable long term answer.

And yes, I hit him up about his move-on comment. He put his arm around me and said "sometimes I am guilty of tripping over my tongue," and alluded to the fact that he needs to quit using DC strategist-speak when referring to different factions of the Dem party.

I told him "I'll give you my endorsement only after I see you give Russert the redass just one time." He said he thought Russert was a fair guy at which point his daughter said "yeah right".

[Marr]

12. Probably because Mr. Biden hasn't deigned to meet any of his constituents, unless they

happen to be the "sophisticated" sort. You know- people with lots of corporate dollars stuffed into their pockets.

[jillan]

93. At which candidate ISNT going after corporate dollars?

c'mon!

[Marr]

111. How about Bernie Sanders?

How about anyone that's not DLC? Any politician would welcome money from corporate America if they offered it, but some go out of their way to court it- at the expense of regular people.

[MindPilot]

15. The Dems overall seem to be hell-bent on alienating their base

Why?

[54anickel]

24. Cuz they think they can - they're after the middle (which is still WAY right of center)

and the swing vote.

[OzarkDem]

60. Labor union strategy

They used to use this tactic in Ohio (and lost plenty of elections as a result).

They think it better to target the mythical "Reagan Democrat' voters, ignoring the fact that most of the Dem base is women who don't agree with the Joe six pack mentality.

[saras]

82. Maybe...

they're still afraid of being Wellstoned?

[Telly Savalas]

17. Yeah, get your shit together and support our sophisticated president!

[tabasco]

22. Fuck him too.

'nuff said.

[SoCalDem]

23. He's just pissed that there is now some accountablility

News-types swallow the tripe because they want continued access...

"Bloggers" and "move-on-types" don't have access to start with, so we don't HAVE to swallow the nonsense..

[Bluebear]

25. Ah, so THAT'S what "unsophisticated" means!

No seat at the $2500.-a-plate table for the fist-sized shrimp cocktails and your Senator's ear for dessert.

[Solly Mack]

27. LOL If you don't agree with me you're just not savvy

LMAO

Way to marginalize there , Joe!


Calling bullshit bullshit obviously makes people unsophisticated. They should call it "strategy" and "politically attuned"

misspoke for lies and crimes are "mistakes made"

[gaspee]

28. That's usually my view of Biden

A corporate whore who sold his soul to the credit card companies. Delaware is the headquarters of a lot of businesses for a reason. He's part of that system.

Unsophisticated? Really?

How about "not for sale" -- that would be us, not him.

Edited for typo

[Bluebear]

30. You said it, Rhody! :) nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Post this in the Iowa forum

Let's see just how many Iowans HAVE criticized Biden for his war funding vote.

[Jack Rabbit]

32. not one voter in Iowa has criticized him for his war funding vote

That's because not one voter in Iowa takes Biden seriously.

If he's sophistocated, I'll take unsophisticated any day.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Since when has Biden listened to anyone but himself..except when plagiarizing.

[Jack Rabbit]

36. WWNKD?

What would Neil Kinnock do?

[progressoid]

112. Who is this Joe Biden fella?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. "Sophisticated" = Telling people that funding a war is stopping it.

Tragically, there are people who actually believe it and consider themselves sophisticated and call themselves realists.

[brentspeak]

34. One way people can show their disappointment with Biden is by...

...dumping all their Delaware-sent credit card junk mail at his office door. And believe me, that'd be a lot of junk mail.

[Fleshdancer]

37. Unsophisticated = calling the African American candidate "clean" and "articulate"

Someone should clue Biden in to what sophistication is. It takes far more than to purchase expensive suits an spend thousands on teeth whitener unfortunately.

[Cha]

59. As opposed to biden's persona of

dirty(money)and foot in mouth disease.

[Ian David]

38. Biden fucking sucks. He always has sucked.

Joe Biden's suck knob goes all the way to eleven.

[applegrove]

39. I think Biden has said the neocons were brilliant too. So that says a fair

bit about him. Neocons are as brilliant as communists or any Utopians were. They are dangerous and love the social engineering that comes from the top down..no matter who it hurts. That ain't brilliant. That is childlike in its maturity.

[Neecy]

40. Pretty unsophisticated thing to say, Joe

And fairly stupid, since no Democrat who truly wants the nomination would crap on the base.

He knows he can't win, he's just in this to hear himself speak...endlessly.

[Robbien]

41. Note that to Biden all netroots are Moveon.org people

I am not a Moveon.org person. Using the label Moveon.org to categorize a wide group of people on the left side of the spectrum is a O'reilly/Rush/DLC/BlueDog type of underhanded tactic.

[Hubert Flottz]

42. Joe should have watched what happened to Joe Lieberman.

The democratic voters don't like bush kissing big timers.

[tibbiit]

43. He thinks he can be elected president

what does that make him?
lol
save your money joe, it would NEVER EVER happen.
tib

[blogslut]

45. I think Joe's hairplugs are growing into his brain

The man is just not right.

[Nite Owl]

46. So he's the one leading

in the Iowa polls?


Didn't think so.

[bullimiami]

48. that doesnt change my opinion of him one bit. i still detest him.

[Madspirit]

50. k&r Bluebear

We're not sophisticates. :cry:

Man I hate this country. I used to love it. If we had the bucks...............
Lee

[Cha]

57. IMO, it's not the country..

it's the government. The country is beautiful and with someone like Al Gore as our President ..we could have a government to be proud of.

It's definetly worth fighting for..those neoCON fuckers are headed for the shit pile of used up dicktators.

[electron_blue]

53. huh? *more* sophisticated? in what way LOL

[Forkboy]

54. Well at least my posts aren't plagiarized Joe.

[Bluebear]

103. Burn! nt

[Cha]

55. Well...he really knows how to

get my unsophisticated(I can't even spell that word!) dander up.

And just what exactly does sophistication have to do with giving bush more money for his lie-packed, never ending, killing machine?

Way to divide the Dems you're courting, you sophisticated asshole.

[The Backlash Cometh]

56. Well, we are the common man and woman.

Just more educated. I don't think sophistication has anything to do with it, unless you associate that word with "slimy." And, yes, we're not.

[leftofthedial]

58. DLC fuckwad

he sold us out to the bankers at MBNA. He is too "sophisticated" to care about the people of America. I'm not "sophisticated" enough to support him.

[LynnTheDem]

61. Not all idiots are conservatives.

Although all conservatives are idiots.

[JCMach1]

63. Biden just sealed the fate of his campaign... Prediction: Joe will be first to drop out...

when the backlash smacks him in the face...

[yurbud]

64. "no one at the country club I visited seemed concerned about it."

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flyarm]

66. GEE HE THOUGHT I WAS SOPHISTICATED AT THE DEM CONVENTION IN 2004 WHEN HE FLIRTED WITH ME!!

and put his arm around my waist..and kissed me on the cheek..and i am a move on type..have belonged since their inception!!...and he recognised me from when i was at a public ( non political ) event..at which he also flirted in his happy sweet political way..!!

yes i saw his interview as well and i began screaming..you freaking hypocrite...but he would love move- on to do ads for him i bet..or to stand up for him...yeah i am sure he would never turn down move-on's support...seems the DLC is out to marginalize real democrats!!

hey joe..i gave big bucks to the dems..now maybe i will say....no money to joe..because he doesn't think this proud move- on member is sophisticated enough!!

wow... we all try to support our own ..each and every day..and yet they continue to crap all over us..

hey joe this fla delegate is a damn proud move- on member...

hey joe this move- on member housed the field rep kerry sent down here for 7 months ..and this move- on member bought food for all the paid kerry field kids sent down here each and every day..i fed them!!

hey joe, i bought the dem sign for our DNC office..a big one!!

hey joe i helped run one of the biggest kerry headquarters on the west coast of florida..silly me ..how unsophisticated of me..a silly move- on member.. when working my ass off for you dems..

oh and joe...i know you don;t think this move- on member is sophisticated enough for you... ..but i paid for the bulk of the 65th anniversary luncheon for the oldest democratic womens club in the nation last year..see we have many, many life long senior women who couldn't afford it..so i made sure they had their anniverasry party!!..and some of those lovely ladies are in their 90's and have been life long dems ..supporting the likes of you!!..oh and psssssssssssssss joe ..many many of those lovely ladies ...are move- on members!!

oh and joe ..i live in two states ..and two years ago i helped start a dem club in my second state..we started with 9 members in a very very republican county..the most republican in the state in fact..and we now have around 300 members...and it is on a small island...

and joe when i go out and campaign for dems..i dress very elegantly..and ohhhh yes joe..i have done public speaking for you dems..i will be sure to pass along your worry about move- on members not being sophisticated...

hmmmmmmmmmmm...

ok ok..i know i am being snarky...but i am fed up..i am fed up with saying everything positive about and for dems..and every time i turn around it is those ..we work our asses off for ... labeling us as this or that..or something else..

the DLC came into my fla area and fucked the incredible life long deidcated dems who were running for office for the november election..even going as far as $$ finacially supporting a republican who changed his registration to dem 6 weeks before the primary..the life long dems didn;t have a primary until the DLC came in and got this guy to change his registration to democratic....yes a repub....it was like they wanted us to lose..they stuck it up our incredible dem candidates asses...i guess that was a sophisticated thing for the DLC to do?? recruiting repugs to run as dems!!

and i am just sick and tired of it..

if they don't want our help and our volunteer time and efforts then fuck them..i will be glad to sit home and not be out nightly promoting them! and setting up meet ups ..and doing emailing ..for them..

i won't run another meet up..

i won't go to tallahassee on my own dime..

i won't pay for stuff our dem party can;t afford .. because they get no national support..other than the dlc coming in here and screwing candidates!!

i will stay home and relax and enjoy life instead of working my ass off for them!

and i will keep my check book closed...

and i will not do another thing until they come and kiss my ass!

i know i am on a rant ..but between the vote for war funding and hearing over and over..we are this or we are that..i have had enough..

there are many many many seniors i know here in fla that barely survive on social security..or very little pensions..and they give..they give what little they can..and probably do without food or staples ..because they are trying to save their country..there are seniors and vets..who i have seen give ..when i know damn well they can't afford to..but they give more than me..because they don't have it to give..and yet they still give..but they also give their hearts and souls..

i have relieved vets in wheelchairs who have missing limbs..who volunteered and became poll watchers and stood out in 95-100 degree weather..to protect all our votes..i have seen seniors who come out to stuff envelopes..and answer phones when they are not well..but they believe in their duty to country..and they fear what is happening in our country..my husband has driven people so old to the polls when they can hardly walk..so they could vote..but they went and voted..no matter how hard it was for them!

we had one 89 year old woman who came down to florida in 2004 from vermont to help us and to try to ensure our votes counted..she sat hour after hour stuffing envelopes and folding palm cards to be handed out at the polls...

we had one man from calif who came and brought a tent and he camped out at our Kerry headquarters for 5 weeks..to help us ensure we got our votes to count..in 2004...he was 68 yrs old!


Joe in case you missed this fact...a democracy is made up of rich and poor..black and white and dark skin and light skin and sophisticated and non sophisticated...and pretty and ugly..and skinny and not so skinny , and handsome and not so handsome..and healthy and not so healthy ..and some very handicapped..

but Joe ..i have yet to meet one democrat that i don't fall in love with..because they care..they care about each other..they are not selfish..they are not greedy..they are not corporate whores..they will not sell their soul or their country out..

they are true blue Americans..that love their country..

joe i have done public speaking for the democratic party , and i have done oublic speaking for Move-on..i have gone on TV appealing for both the democrats and move-on..because you know what Joe.. as move- on members..we are democrats..

do i agree with both the democrats and Move-on all the time..no..but i don't agree with my husband of 34 years all the time either, nor do i agree with my children all the time..but that doesn't mean i don't love them ..but if my family treated me as piss poor as you politicans treat us out here in the trenches..i assure you i would have been divorced a long time ago!!

enough Joe of the DLC bullshit..i will not tolerate it any longer..

you have no right to lable us..we are all different ..beautifully different...incredibly different..
and many give you much more than you give back!!


ok rant over..but i just had to say that..ok now i feel better...

and i think i will send a check to move- on today..just for prosperity!!

i think that is a sophisticated thing to do!!

:rant: over...fly

ignore typos ..i started out angry!!

[Bluebear]

104. RIGHTEOUS RANT!!! nt

[jberryhill]

125. He's still doing that?

Geez... he used to creep out the women in the class he taught at Widener with that touchy-feely routine.

[BattyDem]

67. This coming from the man who referred to Barack Obama as "clean"

:eyes:

[cooolandrew]

69. Why did this guy enter the race, I'm confused.

[Lost4words]

70. I am sure he plagiarized it!

He has been in hot water for it before. I dont think Mr MBNA has any origional thoughts.

Good move, allineate those who might even consider voting for you, Isnt he DLC anyway!

8643

[spanone]

71. No one likes the sound of Biden's voice as much as Biden does.

[Nimrod2005]

72. I feel sorry for this guy...Always saying the wrong thing

[TahitiNut]

73. Joe's permanently contaminated with "inside the beltway" elitism. A lost soul.

Sad.

[formercia]

74. I was going to make a comment

but it seems all bases have been covered, and being unsophisticated, i'm afraid I would not be able to do the subject justice.

I may not have graduated from charm school, but I know a ho' when I see one.

[dogday]

75. Biden knows this war is going to be continuing

for Decades and so he is selling it to us.. Trying to make us think the moderates want war... The poll don't lie Joe.... Go peddle your shit elsewhere....

[Swamp Rat]

76. Oh, he's sure to win the Dem nomination now.

:eyes:

[avrdream]

77. Hey Joe, how's this for unsophisticated?

You're a WINDBAG!

[Chulanowa]

78. If being sophisticated means agreeing with Joe Biden...

then I will gladly sit out here in the woods, plucking my banjo and drinking my moonshine while wearing nothing but overalls.

[saras]

79. He's right - go research definition of "sophisticated"

A "sophist" was one who could argue for or against any position, with no attachment to truth or accuracy, whether for personal benefit or merely to be contrary.

If big business pays him more than the general public, he argues against the general public. All that matters is who pays him, right? That's sophisticated.

While you're wasting time doing research, try and find out just how hard it was for an antiwar Iowa voter to get their message to Biden in such a way that he could hear it (i.e. wrapped in large bundles of unmarked bills). If you can only talk to him at $1000/plate dinners, OF COURSE he doesn't hear from the poor. If you have to work your way through a maze of prowar bureaucrats to get to him, OF COURSE the antiwar voters aren't heard.

[HardRocker05]

81. right, don't we know that it's 'smart' to support the war? f-him. nt.

[jillan]

83. What Biden REALLY said

Was that not everybody is Moveon.org.
That he RESPECTS THEM AND RESPECTS THEIR FRUSTRATION.

And he also said
"I’m not running for
president to get the nomination by any cost."
Meaning that he is not willing to change his vote just to win the nomination..... not that anyone currently running would have done that on Thurs:rofl:

[Rex]

84. Projection.

[BlueIris]

130. Snerk. nt

[kenny blankenship]

86. UNSOPHISTICATED: that's right, we haven't learned to like the taste of Chimp Dick like he has

That's a taste I am proud to say I will never acquire and always resist.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

87. Biden off the hand that feeds him.

I'm shore sad to fynd owt he thinks I ain't suffisticaytid, you know like them Fancy Dans lahk Trent Lott, Bill Frist, and that nice Mr. Stevens feller with his tubes n bridges n all. :sarcasm:

[Downtown Hound]

88. The moveon types are the ones that put your party in power you jackass

And this is how you repay us? Allow me to just say, "FUCK YOU!"

[Nikki Stone1]

90. AMEN....and k & r

:kick

[JI7]

89. he has a point

it's very likely that nobody has criticized him for it to his face because those who go to see him have no problem with it or don't care about the issue much. most others probably know what he is about so just don't attend any event with him or question him. they know where he stands and they disagree with him. there are other candidates they find more appealing. Biden isn't one of those they will even consider voting for.

[Patsy Stone]

91. That's because we weren't voting for him anyway.

BTW, since when did hairplugs become sophisticated?

[treestar]

92. Well at least he said it articulately.

This is a case of "I can't disagree without insult" on both sides.

[LaPera]

94. What a truly pontificating, ignorant fool is the village idiot & Bush ass-kisser, Joe Biden!!

[FreeStateDemocrat]

95. Biden, the sophisticated corp whore who rolled over and let Clarence Thomas be confirmed to SCOTUS

[NastyDiaper]

96. I have a wad of sophistication to shove down his throat.

My wad for Biden:

Print "Demagogue" from dictionary.com.
Write "Biden/Lieberman" across it with a fat-ass sharpie.
Crumple tightly.

Anyone have a tongue press?

[mnhtnbb]

97. And then of course, there are the arrogant a$$holes of the Senate....

[jillan]

98. You have taken Joe's words out of context

I just re- watched his interview again.

Of all the things he talked about in the 20 minutes he was on, you took a 2 second sound bite and put words in his mouth. Gee - are you sure you don't work for Faux?

Unbelievable!

[NastyDiaper]

110. I can't find the current interview. Out of context, on the DU? Maybe but...

"Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., announced Wednesday that he would vote for the Iraq spending bill."

"I'm not going to vote to leave the troops without money," Biden said. "You can go out there and demagogue it all you want but the bottom line is you need seventeen Republican Senators to join us," to override any presidential veto.

Plenty of people voted Yay. But Biden's reasons stand out completely lame, and lead me to question just how out of context this was taken.

"Leave the troops without money" ? He does not offer 'Nay' as a concession. A mainstream political reality. Or the fact that * is in fact holding the troops hostage and the intervention must be delayed (see Murtha/Reid).

He says that anti-war people are taking an anti-war position as a matter of political strategy.

[formercia]

99. Pot calling the kettle black

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism

Senator Joseph Biden

* Biden was forced to withdraw from the 1988 Democratic Presidential nominations when it was alleged that he had failed a 1965 introductory law school course on legal methodology due to plagiarism. "Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., fighting to salvage his Presidential campaign . . . acknowledged 'a mistake' in his youth, when he plagiarized a law review article for a paper he wrote in his first year at law school. Mr. Biden insisted, however, that he had done nothing 'malevolent,' that he had simply misunderstood the need to cite sources carefully."<33> Biden withdrew from the race September 23, 1987, and reported the law school incident to the Delaware Supreme Court. The court's Board of Professional Responsibility cleared him of any allegations.<34>
* Biden was also accused of plagiarizing portions of his speeches, and that he had copied several campaign speeches, notably those of British Labour leader Neil Kinnock and Senator Robert F. Kennedy. He denied those charges. "And he asserted that another controversy, concerning recent reports of his using material from others' speeches without attribution, was 'much ado about nothing.'"<35>

Although unsophisticated in his ability to avoid detection for plagiarism, Mr. Biden realized that he would find safe haven as a member of Congress.

Lying as protected by the Constitution:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=383&invol=169

U.S. Supreme Court
UNITED STATES v. JOHNSON, 383 U.S. 169 (1966)
383 U.S. 169

UNITED STATES v. JOHNSON.
CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE FOURTH CIRCUIT.
No. 25.
Argued November 10 and 15, 1965.
Decided February 24, 1966.

Respondent, a former Congressman, was convicted on several counts of violating the conflict of interest statute (18 U.S.C. 281) and on one count of conspiring to defraud the United States (18 U.S.C. 371). The conspiracy charge involved an alleged agreement whereby respondent and another Congressman would attempt to influence the Justice Department to dismiss pending savings and loan company mail fraud indictments. As part of the conspiracy respondent allegedly delivered for pay a speech in Congress favorable to loan companies. The Government contended and adduced proof to show that the speech was delivered to serve private interests; that respondent was not acting in good faith; and that he did not prepare or deliver the speech as a Congressman would ordinarily do. The Court of Appeals set aside the conviction on the conspiracy count as being barred by Art. I, 6, of the Constitution, providing that "for any Speech or Debate in either House" Senators and Representatives "shall not be questioned in any other Place," and ordered retrial on the substantive counts. Held:

1. The Speech or Debate Clause precludes judicial inquiry into the motivation for a Congressman's speech and prevents such a speech from being made the basis of a criminal charge against a Congressman for conspiracy to defraud the Government by impeding the due discharge of its functions. Pp. 173-185.

(a) The Speech or Debate Clause, which emerged from the long struggle for parliamentary supremacy, embodies a privilege designed to protect members of the legislature against prosecution by a possibly unfriendly executive and conviction by a possibly hostile judiciary. Pp. 177-180.

(b) The privilege, which will be broadly construed to effectuate its purposes, Kilbourn v. Thompson, 103 U.S. 168 ; Tenney v. Brandhove, 341 U.S. 367 , was created not primarily to avoid private suits as in those cases, but to prevent legislative intimidation by and accountability to the other branches of government. Pp. 180-182. <383 U.S. 169, 170>

(c) The Speech or Debate Clause forecloses inquiry not only into the "content" of a congressional speech but into circumstances involving the motives for making it. Pp. 182-183.

(d) Prosecution under a general criminal statute involving inquiry into the motives for and circumstances surrounding a congressional speech is barred even though the gravamen of the offense is the alleged conspiracy rather than the speech itself. Pp. 184-185.

2. The Government is not precluded from retrying the conspiracy count as purged of all the elements offensive to the Speech or Debate Clause. P. 185.

3. This Court does not review the Court of Appeals' determination that the substantive counts be retried because of the prejudicial effect thereon resulting from the unconstitutional aspects of the conspiracy count since the Government does not dispute that determination in this proceeding. Pp. 185-186.

[deutsey]

100. Biden is UNELECTABLE, so he can kiss my UNSOPHISTICATED ass n/t

[lies and propaganda]

101. Not clean and articulate? Damn!

[BlueIris]

102. I beg of you, Senator, please sit down.

Before you embarrass us (or the Party) anymore.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

105. I'll put my couth up against his any day!!

[Vidar]

106. Way to follow the dollars, Joe.

[wtmusic]

108. Stupid comment.

How many more you got waiting in the wings, Joe?

[LoZoccolo]

109. I think I have yet to see an unsophisticated person...

...who was aware of it.

[Telly Savalas]

113. Indeed. Biden is completely oblivious to his lack of sophistication.

[DemDem07]

117. Are you speaking from personal experience?

:eyes:

[LoZoccolo]

119. "I think I have yet to see..."

I thought it was pretty obvious that I was.

[DemDem07]

123. I question

your ability to recognize every unsophisticated type you see.

There is at least one you are overlooking.

[LoZoccolo]

124. That, my friend, would only prove my point further.

For that is exactly what I said.

[krkaufman]

114. Isn't "sophisticated" a term often associated with a married person or couple ...

... who openly has an affair? In that context, Biden is certainly a sophisticate... he presents himself as a Democrat, the people party, but votes for the Corporations.

[bullwinkle428]

115. FUCK!!!!! He was a guest at a picnic in MY TOWN this evening,

but I decided to blow it off to play golf as the weather was so beautiful!! :mad: :argh: :grr: :mad: :mad: :argh: :grr:

I even mentioned this to someone that started a Biden thread the other day in GD, and someone else encouraged me to go. I couldn't be more disgusted with myself for not going, after reading this quote...

DU...I'm sorry, you guys...I would have loved proving him to be a liar.

[MadBadger]

116. You Misquoted him and rearranged words to make what he said much worse.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/05/27/sunday-sampler-platter-8/


"Look, I know — I know what the right political vote was.
But some things just aren’t worth it, Wolf. I’m not running for
president to get the nomination by any cost.
I think it would have been wrong to cut the funding off, No. 1. No. 2, the Democrats are a lot smarter than everybody thinks they are. They’re not — everybody is not MoveOn.org. And I respect them. I respect their frustration.
But the vast majority of people out here in Iowa — I did five town meetings yesterday on Iraq. No one criticized my vote. They’re a lot more sophisticated, Wolf. They understand that it’s about who can end this war.
Does anybody — do you think any Democrat thinks that, if we cut
off the funding, this war would have ended tomorrow? Do you think that was going to happen, and you think the president then vetoes it, and we need 67 votes?
I mean, it’s about time we tell — you know, that old phrase
everybody loves to use, “speak truth to power” — we have not been
telling the American people the truth about this war from day one. We’re not telling the truth now about how to end the war. It requires a specific proposal, a plan whereby you are going to find a political solution, while beginning, immediately, to draw down American forces. We need 67 votes to get that done"

He didnt give the answer I wanted at all, but he also didnt say what you said he said. He did say I believe that he respects Moveon and their frustration.

[Bake]

120. OK, look at what he DID say.

"They're a lot smarter than everybody thinks they are. They're not -- everybody is not MoveOn.org"

Saying he respects them, immediately after saying the above, doesn't change it. He still says, esentially that "Dems" are smarter than the moveon.org types.

And I say bullshit.

Biden doesn't want the nomination, and he knows he won't get it. Why he's a candidate at all is beyond me. Unless it's to feed his monstrous ego.

Bake

[Bluebear]

126. Oh, did I now?

....the Democrats are a lot smarter than everybody thinks they are. They’re not — everybody is not MoveOn.org. And I respect them. The Democrats, not Moveon.org I respect their frustration. But the vast majority of people out here in Iowa — I did five town meetings yesterday on Iraq. No one criticized my vote. They’re a lot more sophisticated, Wolf.

So, who are these Iowa Democratic voters more sophisticated than?

==

Mind you, I write this right after hearing him without the benefit of the transcript, but I stad by my original interpretation even with the words you present.

[jillan]

131. Hey Bluebear - I hear they are looking for a replacement for Sam Fox.

[Bluebear]

133. Who is that?

[Spiffarino]

127. Thanks for getting the real quote

Pure truth is often more powerful than the condensed version. However, I think what Biden is missing is the fact that it's only the people showing up at his town meetings who aren't criticizing him for his vote.

He's only getting the opinion of those who either support him or are thinking about giving their support. I don't think he's seeing the bigger picture.

[Bluebear]

128. I stand by the interpretation.

Maybe he "misspoke", a la his "articulate and clean" comment, but that is what I took from it.

[bbgrunt]

121. unlike joementumI, Biden seems almost likeable--but he is just as lethal.

[unkachuck]

122. well joe....

....some of us might not be as 'sophisticated' as you would like but most of us are 'sophisticated' enough to keep you from being President....

[justinrr1]

129. Hes got one hell of a plan for Iraq

and if you all cant see that you are blind. It is much more than the John Edwards epiphany(for political reasons) that this war was a mistake. Anybody who says Biden is a Bush kisser is totally off base and just ranting.

[Usrename]

134. The one about crushing the country into separate factions?

I guess it would be be a whole lot easier to deal with only the Kurds for their oil rights, if you really wanted to make Exxon/Mobile and BP very happy, but what else is good about his plan?

[autorank]

135. Oh right, and he's a f'ing genius "notwithstanding" - his vocabulary in toto

His book on the presidential try will be called,

"Thke Short Happy Campaign that Never Was"

[Beelzebud]

136. Biden is the definition of media whore.

[in_cog_ni_to]

137. Is this 'sophisticated' enough for you, Mr. Credit Card scam artist?

[ananda]

138. Bushrovian media tactic of divide and conquer..

.. works.

[sellitman]

139. We had too many candidates anyway.

I refuse to pay any more attention to one with his foot clearly stuck in his mouth and his head up his ass.