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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-03-09 02:56 PM
Original message
Chavez Bodyguard Shot as Venezuela Presidential Security Increased
CARACAS – The cost of protecting President Hugo Chávez has come under question at the National Assembly, which is all but entirely dominated by his ruling United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) and its minor allies.

The issue was raised by loyalist Deputy Juan José Mendoza during a debate at which legislators duly rubber-stamped an “additional credit” worth BsF7.102 million to finance the presidential Honor Guard.

Mendoza wasn’t out to criticize the extra money. On the contrary, he asked what on Earth would happen to the country if anything happened to the president. “What’s at stake is the peace of the country,” he declared.

Nobody in the chamber was prepared to mount an outright challenge to the top-up, and it duly sailed through in a flurry of upraised hands.

However, the handful of anti-government legislators from Podemos – the social democratic party which once sided with Chávez but is now against him – and a lone representative of the Popular Humanist Front, Pastora Medina did take the opportunity to ask why the chamber wasn’t discussing the safety of the people.

This was a good point. Venezuela is reckoned to have one of the highest per capita murder rates in the world – around 130 per every 100,000 head of population. “The president has to be cared for, but who’s going to look after those who vote for him?” Deputy Juan José Molina demanded to know. “We should use the resources to attend to the needs of the people.”

As if to remind everybody of the ever-lurking threat posed by thugs with guns, an officer from the state security service, DISIP, who worked as a bodyguard for a presidential protection squad was slain in broad daylight last Tuesday morning.

Herickson Arcángel González León, 26, didn’t die in the line of duty. Like so many others, he met his maker after bad guys had demanded he give them his motor bike. He refused, so they plugged him with several bullets and took it anyway.

This was in Carapita, a less than salubrious district on the way to the zoo in south-east Caracas, and he became the 49th person to be killed there this year so far. The area seems to be well on the way to matching last year’s local murder toll of 70.

Within hours of picking up their dead colleague, the forces of law and order appeared to extract rapid rough justice, with 200 officers swarming into several barrios in Carapita in search of the killers.

Amid much confusion and a not inconsiderable degree of pure fright among members of the public, a squad from the scientific and investigative police, CICPC, gunned down two adolescent males, claiming they were the culprits.

Spokesmen for CICPC said the young men had been found to be in possession of credentials from DISIP, the Honor Guard, credit cards and a cellular telephone that had belonged to the dead bodyguard. As is customary, the official version of events was that there had been a shoot-out.

Not so, said the family, which is almost as usual an occurrence. They said the lads had been taken from their homes and then turned up dead at the city morgue.

One of the dead departed is said to have been 14 years old. This shouldn't raise too many eyebrows, given the way things are in parts of this city, not least among them Carapita. Not so long ago, one trainee Macho Camacho tough guy with a very large pistol turned out to be only 12 years old.

The cops claim the youths belonged to a gang called Los Clavellinos (the meaning of which is unclear, and that's not unusual, either). But then it emerged that the police hadn't heard of this lot until then.

The district has been plagued in recent years by two bunches of bad guys who've become all too well known as Los Guajiros (named after a race of Indians who live in Zulia state) and Los Sayones. Both gangs make a speciality of stealing motorbikes from riders at gunpoint, running the local drugs and protection rackets, and fighting each other in order to see who does.

Local bus drivers claim that when the two gangs aren't at each others' throats, they're responsible between them for an average of seven armed assaults on buses a week. That's one way of saying on average one every day.

Residents of Carapita say that the moment the cops had left in search of a third youth, the gangs came back and took over as usual. Within hours, the sounds of yet more gunfire were to be heard.

In Las Minas in Baruta down in the south of the city, Joseth Besilassabat Efran's life as an immigrant local businessman of Syrian origin came to an end at 77 years of age on Thursday,or maybe a little earlier.

He hadn't been seen that day, so police and the local fire brigade broke into his shop. There, they found his dead body tied to a chair with signs of having been beaten on the head several times.

The day's takings were gone. Police reckon this was the work of a local gang, who prey on small firms. Some members of this gang, too, are thought to be males not yet old enough to be shaving every day.


http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=344938&CategoryId=10717
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. Strike three! You're out, Spanza! Three corpo/fascist anti-Chavez headlines and articles
in a row, and, in your only positive post on Venezuela (about El Sistema) you (and the article) fail to credit the Chavez government for its support of this fabulously successful classical music education program for poor children.

You claim to be a leftist. I no longer believe you. A leftist would never post corpo/fascist 'news' articles like these--this one with a misleading headline and dripping with sarcasm about Chavez's safety, and the others on economic issues which leave out so many facts and so much context that they create a black hole (celestial phenomenon from which no light can escape) right on my computer screen--without comment, facts, context or analysis.

:thumbsdown:
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Americans Increasingly Choose to listen to their own side
The following is a quote from an article in "The Atlantic", called "The Story behind the Story", by Mark Bowden:

"Americans Increasingly Choose to listen to their own side, to bloggers and commentators who reinforce their convictions and paint the world only in acceptable, comfortable colors".

I suggest you look it up, and learn to tone down your own monochromatic point of view. The guy is simply posting articles, it's up to you to discern whether they are truth or not, and to point it out.

But it's very sad to see what appears to be a fairly intelligent individual filtering information and creating his own internal version of reality, what one may call a "mini-matrix".
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. You're one to talk.
Edited on Sun Oct-04-09 10:54 AM by Billy Burnett

Mini Matrix is you.

"Some people say" that Chavez (insert crime/complaint here).


Reads like a "dissident" report from Cuba, bought and paid for by the I.R.I.



尢尣



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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. LOL
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Why would you suggest Democrats could find anything in a "neo-con" owned magazine
credible?
Atlantic Monthly Wiki:
~snip~
In 1980, the magazine was acquired by Mortimer Zuckerman, property magnate and founder of Boston Properties, who became its Chairman.

On September 27, 1999, ownership of the magazine was transferred from Zuckerman to David G. Bradley, owner of the beltway news-focused National Journal Group. Although Bradley had promised that no major changes were in store, the magazine's publishers announced in April 2005 that the editorial offices would leave their long-time home at 77 North Washington St. in Boston to join the company's advertising and circulation divisions in Washington, D.C., apparently due to the high cost of Boston real estate.<6> Later, in August, Bradley told the New York Observer, cost cutting from the move would amount to a minor $200,000–$300,000 and those savings would be swallowed by severance related spending. The reason, then, was to create a hub in Washington where the top minds from all of Bradley's publications could collaborate. Few of the Boston staff agreed to relocate, allowing Bradley to embark on an open search for a new editorial staff.<7>

Bradley, who has described himself as "a neocon guy" who came to regret his support for the Iraq invasion,<8> hired the Jerusalem bureau chief for The New York Times James Bennet as editor, and writers including Jeffrey Goldberg and Andrew Sullivan<8>.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Atlantic_Monthly

Visitor, PLEASE.

Here's the link to the story you want everyone to respect:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200910/media

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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Maybe because....
Even if it's owned by neocons, the article does make sense. Consider me an alien from another planet, I'm watching all of you, and you do seem to filter out information.
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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. It's just an article man
About the situation of crime in Caracas that even you dear venezuelananalysis with the head of Chavez on its front page recognizes. It's not saying that criminality is created by him! What makes you so radical about anything negative that could possibly happen in my city? Criminality affects specially poor people in Venezuela... do you think it is right wing to denounce it and ask for weapons' controls??? Do you think it's an invented news?! Can't you read an article and make your own opinion? You think others can't so you have to preserve them or something?

I give credit to Abreu (not Bobby..:)) for the system, I know him personaly and I know what he's been through for the last 30 years to create this cultural miracle. And yes, it's true the fundings went up with this government. I have no problem recognizing that. But let me tell you it was already well spread before Chavez and the first one to congratulate is Abreu.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. "What makes you so radical?" Getting lied to time and time and time and time and
time to infinity....again and again and again and again...by the propagandistic, monopolistic, slimy, corrupt, warmongering, brainwashing, "Alice in Wonderland," corpo-fascist so-called 'news' media!

So when you post their crap here, I NOTICE! And when you do it repeatedly, I NOTICE SOME MORE! And when you use it to make THEIR rightwing "talking points," then it's over between me and you. I thought you might be a reasonable "centrist." I know otherwise now. NINE anti-Chavez posts from corpo/fascist sources in three days! That has to be a record! And five of them from the disgusting El (non-) Universal!

Yup, I'm a radical. I HATE this CIA-run psyops campaign against Chavez. I hate it with all my soul. I hate it not because I love Chavez, or because I am some kind of kneejerk political person. I hate it because it is an insult to the people of Venezuela, who have fought so hard for their democracy, and who have achieved so much, and who hold transparent elections that we can only envy here. And I hate it because I have researched all these psyops charges against Chavez, and FOUND THEM ALL TO BE BOGUS!

And now you're posting the SAME SOURCES and treating them as if they have credibility, and I know they don't!

I also know that this dwelling on street crime in Caracas is a rightwing "talking point" here and there, because their goddamned lies about "Chavez the dictator" haven't worked, so they've got to find something negative to headline. This is called BRAINWASHING. The choice of subjects and headlines is an editorial BRAINWASHING technique, to associate Chavez and Venezuela with a constant, unrelenting stream of negative impressions. Is there nothing positive that the Chavez government has done to earn nearly 60% approval ratings in Venezuela, consistently over the years, and numerous elections?

Where are those headlines? Hm?

I'm sorry, but I no longer believe that you are just innocently posting all this bad news from the corpo/fascist press.

They lied us into war. They lied us into a Great Depression. They lied us into torture. They lied us into a junta in the USA. They lied our soldiers or others into slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and many other places. And what are their lies about now, hm? NOTHING POSITIVE IS EVER PUBLISHED IN THE CORPO-FASCIST PRESS ABOUT CHAVEZ. All negative all the time. What is this FOR?

You want this war that Rumsfeld was planning against Venezuela and Ecuador? Is that what you want? Wake up!

If it's radical to be against lies, and for peace, then I am a radical for sure. I hate these lies, and there is only one purpose to a campaign of lies that is this intense and has gone on this long, and that is war.

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spanza Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Anti-Chavez?
Edited on Sun Oct-04-09 08:51 PM by spanza
Saying there's a problem with crime... that the economy is slowing... quoting him on health system problems... Anti-Chavez?! Do you want me to talk like official state TV or what?

You dont need ME to post good news about Venezuela, you have already heard, repeated and amplified all of them. Nuance, brother, please!

You even adviced me to go and get OBJECTIVE information about my country and the reality I live in from an english site that contains many heads of Chavez on its frontpage.. come on! Very very surrealistic, don't you thik? No wonder why the corpo-fascist rule your country, people like you are so damn useful to them.

What are you talking about elections? The last time my poor fcked up city voted, they elected a mayor from the opposition. Do YOU know what happened next? Holly Chavez took his money and gave it to a new 'Chief of District' he appointed, bloody fascist red-shirted militias took the City Hall and he gave order to the police not to intervene. This time stop being evasive and tell me what do you think of that?

Yes, Chavez has support and it's around 55-60%. You can repeat it in every post you write, I know it well. I don't contest him as legitimate. And yes, positive efforts have been taken in some areas, specially in poverty. I tried to explain why this improvement wasn't as solid as it looked. I tried to explain why making people dependent on government budget in an oil producing country was short-termed. It's been the same old story again and again. Do you know what was the poverty rate during the 70's oil shocks? 24,5%.. we're still far away from that.

You are the one spreading LIES when you say things like Chavez reduced illiteracy more than the "corpo-fascist" governments that ruled the country before him. Like there was a change in trends. And it's not totally your fault, you just don't know how to go to stats.uis.unesco.org to check your numbers. You can't even read the government sites when they're in spanish. You just take for granted what your chavez-headed sites tell you and repeat it to others who think just like you. Nice for a progressive...

So what's the big fuss about illeteracy in Venezuela... let's go check!
Adult literacy rate: 1981=84.7% ; 1990=89.8% ; 2001=93% ; 2007=95.2%
Youth .............: 1981=93.1% ; 1990=95.4% ; 2001=97.2% ; 2007= 98.4%
Retrieve the data in
http://stats.uis.unesco.org/unesco/TableViewer/document.aspx?ReportId=136&IF_Language=eng&BR_Topic=0

Stop saying "I have researched", and start with "I will research". And if you keep saying the evolution is better, then you just don't know how to count, patriot.

I really don't blame you, it's normal. I'll tell you why: you just don't give a fck about my country, you just care about your Quijote fight against corpo-fascism and don't even wonder why we were one of the biggest suppliers for your damn airplanes and tanks to go and bomb cities in Irak. I piss on military politicians! And you love paratrooper Chavez as a God. Damn Chavez when he goes to Bielorussia and Libya saying they're a model of socialism. Shame on him when he spits in the faces of iranian progressives being oppressed by saying they're agents of the Empire. Fck his 'Fatherland, Socialism or Death!'... none of you would accept this kind of slogans in your country. Then why the hell is it OK in mine??

Have you ever even bothered going to Venezuela, patriot? You shouldn't think my country is that easy to understand.
And, last thing, STOP READING DUMB VENEZUELANANALYSIS! Are you blind?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. LOL. I hope Peace Patriot has an umbrella to use after all that incoming projection.
LOL
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. Double LOL?
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. You're not radical
I don't think your personality is that radical. You are behaving just like any other homo sapiens who is thoroughly convinced he knows exactly what's going on everywhere. Not even Schrödinger's Cat is a mistery for you.
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Crime in Venezuela is bad indeed
Records show today Venezuela has a higher murder rate than Colombia. That takes a lot of killing.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. It's been a fun weekend in the forum.


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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. Interesting article about urban crime in Venezuela
Thanks for posting.
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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. The Chavistas are outraged, I see
You have cast aspersions on their sacred idol.

Keep up the good work.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. You guys really suck at reading other people
LOL
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. They are like Chavez!
Someone says "hey Comandante, this is not working well"
He says "you are antirevolutionnary! traitor!!!"
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Well, no. Someone says, "False dilemma" and we get all
amused. :)
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. good imitation, that's it!
"Hey Comandante, you didn't get the point... I was trying to explain that.."
"It is a FALSEDILEMMA, shut up!! HahHaaHAhA"

"But Comandante,...... The logical fallacy of false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy) involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are other options. Closely related are failing to consider a range of options and the tendency to think in extremes, called black-and-white thinking. Strictly speaking, the prefix "di" in "dilemma" means "two". When a list of more than two choices is offered, but there are other choices not mentioned, then the fallacy is called the fallacy of false choice, or the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses.

False dilemma can arise intentionally, when fallacy is used in an attempt to force a choice ("If you are not with us, you are against us.")"
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Excellent reasoning
This is the problem I have been trying to discuss. There's no room for dialogue or mutual understanding when one is dealing with extremists of the left, or the right.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I went to check
her out of context expression in wikipedia. And I find it fits her too much! it's beautiful!!!
the power of psychological transfers.. probably psychiatrical, but I think she doesn't know it yet... sshhhh last time she was speaking about a bridge I think and after that she said she "got-my-number-LOL" (quoting LOL)

:crazy: :silly:
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Zorro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. You got that right
DU's resident Chavista motormouths have never even been to Venezuela, but will vehemently attack anyone that raises the slightest criticism of his policies or actions.

It's the same mental affliction that possesses loyal Bush worshipers.
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ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. LOL attacks...
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Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. it would seem we may have some posters who are from or live in Venezuela
you would think that there would be more interest in the first hand knowledge of the current situation from these posters.
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Ask them if it rained today in Caracas
Or something like that, to make sure they do live there.
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