Gallup: Venezuela beats out U.S., U.K. and most of the world on citizens' feelings of well being!

[Peace Patriot]

Venezuela is first in Latin America, and 5th in the world--with only Denmark, Canada, Sweden and Australia ahead of them and a tie with Finland--on its citizens' judgement of their own well-being. 64% of Venezuelans consider themselves to be "thriving," up from 50% in previous years and now ahead of the U.S. (59%) and the U.K. (54%).

Gallup's report (with lists of countries): 4/19/2011
http://www.gallup.com/poll/147167/High-Wellbeing-Eludes-Masses-Countries-Worldwide.aspx

Recently, Venezuela was designated "THE most equal country in Latin America" on income distribution by the UN Economic Commission on Latin America and the Caribbean.

The Gallup poll cites low well-being percentages in Italy (37%), India (17%) and China (12%) as evidence that GDP should not be the only criterion for prosperity. They thus explore self-evaluated social indicators to get at the deeper issues of how people are faring in a society.

Venezuela is succeeding--rather spectacularly--on both criteria: income and well-being.

This is an extraordinary achievement for a developing country--and yet another positive indicator on Venezuela that you will hear virtually nothing about in the corpo-fascist press and, if you do hear about it, it will read like this poison pen article from Rotters (aka Reuters), which I swear is not a parody and which you will not likely find picked up by corpo-fascist newspapers and TV/radio, BECAUSE, despite Rotters' heroic efforts to spin it into a negative, even not very alert readers can see that it's quite positive news about Venezuela and the "New Deal" that Venezuelans got for themselves by electing and re-electing the Chavez government. Rotters' bit got reprinted by trust.org, here...

http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/interview-shared-wealth-behind-venezuela-wellbeing-rating

The thing is that Chavez is bad, bad, bad and nobody can understand why Venezuelans keep saying otherwise, according to Rotters. It would be funny if it weren't so...well...rotten.

Here are some samples:

"Despite mediocre economic data, Venezuelans feel they are thriving...".

"The poll came as a surprise to many because of lackluster economic results..."

"Critics of the Chavez government say..." (blah, blah, blah)...

I gotta give Rotters credit--they actually quote a Venezuelan official high up in the article. They usually don't bother to do it at all. But they can't even do that with a straight face. Get this:

"'The Chavez government has put the human being first,' British-trained Eljuri said in an office suite adorned with exhortations from revolutionary Che Guevara to fight bureaucracy." --Rotters

:rofl:

Let me know if anybody finds this Rotters article about the Chavez government's achievement on Venezuelans' feelings of well-being--or any article about this Gallup polls that mentions it--picked up and reprinted by the corporate media. I'll send you $5.00.

:bounce: :wow: :bounce:

[malaise]

1. Time to show them some

humanitarian drones :sarcasm:

[Scuba]

2. You could see this coming several years ago when the US media began demonizing Chavez. n/t

[bvar22]

7. Not just The Media.

The leadership of BOTH political parties have a bi-partisan Hate On for Chavez,
and I can understand why.
Its a religious thing.
Chavez doesn't believe in the God of Corporate America:
"The Giant Invisible Hand."

Chavez is a blasphemer who diverts Corporate Profits to Social Programs.
I'm surprised we haven't started dropping Freedom Bombs on Venezuela yet.
At least the Two Minutes of HATE program is up & running,
even on DU.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will stand up for working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


"By their works you will know them."

[Exilednight]

29. Chavez has many faults, but I think he might have found a

nice balance between capitalism and social programs.

[ooglymoogly]

37. If you are interested in the truth of Venezuela, this is a must see documentary

This documentary confirms all our fears and exposes many of the negative Venezuela posts on this OP.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11167.htm

The meat of the documentary begins about 4 or 5 minutes into the video when the documentary film maker begins to speak. If anything shocks anymore, this is it. The M$M has completely buried it.

[ooglymoogly]

36. Our dear leaders, the benevolent overlords have already done that

Google "The revolution will not be televised" if you have not already seen it. One of the best kept secrets in the history of coup de e'tats. Our glorious M$M just ignored it as if it never happened. The outcome did not please them....at all. The video is here

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11167.htm

[Judi Lynn]

42. The Venezuelan opposition intimidated Amnesty International's showing of the film,

The Revolution Will Not be TElevised, due to an onslaught of their threats, insisting they withdraw it from the Vancouver Film Festival in British Colombia.

It's mentioned in this interview with one of the people involved in the filming:

Rod StonemanThe author of The Revolution Will Not Be Televised: A Case Studies of Politics and the Media speaks exclusively to LWLies.Marlon Dolcy
Tuesday, December 02 2008 18:24 GMT

~snip~
LWLies: Why do you think the film was so controversial, considering the BBC and Ofcom reports and the withdrawal of the film from Amnesty International’s film festival?

Stoneman: The BBC inquiry saw nothing wrong with our documentary, but an inquiry had to be made because they invested in the film and they had to protect their name. In the case of Amnesty International, I don’t entirely blame them for withdrawing the film because they came under increased intimidation, where threats were made to their staff in Caracas. However, I am a little disappointed that they did not have stronger nerves to fall at the first hurdle of the film’s reception.

http://www.littlewhitelies.co.uk/interviews/rod-stoneman-2250

~~~~~
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised - Why is Amnesty Not Screening a New Documentary About the Failed 2002 Coup in Venezuela?
Today we take a look at a controversial new documentary about the unsuccessful 2002 coup in Venezuela. The film titled, "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" received a rave review from The New York Times but the organizers of the Amnesty International Film Festival in Vancouver have canceled a planned screening of the film that was scheduled to open today.

Main opposition parties in Venezuela organized a petition against the film and garnered 7,000 signatures.

The documentary tells the tale of one of the shortest Presidential overthrows in Latin American history. On April 11, 2002, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez was removed from power by a coalition of military officials and business leaders. But the attempted coup d’etat failed and Chavez returned to office two days later.

The documentary’s two Irish filmmakers Kim Bartley and Donnacha O'Briain happened to be in the Presidential Palace both when Chavez was removed and when he returned.

Tape: "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised” – Excerpts of the new documentary about the unsuccessful 2002 coup in Venezuela.
Don Wright, Organized the Amnesty International film festival in Vancouver, Canada.
Eva Golinger-Moncada, Executive Director of the Venezuela Solidarity Committee in New York. She has come out strongly against the Amnesty Film Festival in Vancouver’s decision to take the award-winning documentary “The Revolution will not be Televised” off their screening list.
Alexandra Beech, Venezuelan-American who writes for the Daily International News Review of Venezuela which is posted on one of the main Chavez opposition group’s websites www.11abril.com. She has written extensively on the flaws in the documentary that Chavez opposition groups are claiming re-write history to favor Chavez.

More:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5168.htm

~~~~~
CanPalNet Statement on the Cancellation of
"The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"
by Amnesty International

Amnesty International (AI) has organized a film festival in Vancouver (Nov 6 to 9) at Pacific Cinemateque. One of the films being shown is "Israel's Secret Weapon", a film that Canpalnet premiered in Canada with the presence of the producer, Giselle Portenier. It is a film we are pleased is being shown at the AI film festival. We encourage people to see it whenever possible.
But Amnesty International also has peremptorally cancelled the showing of another important film they had advertised, scheduled, and which is available. This film deals with the violations of the human rights of Venezuelans by those who orchestrated an unsuccessful coup to overthrow that country's elected president, Hugo Chavez.

Amnesty had been pressured by pro-coup forces to cancel the film and has capitulated. Amnesty now says that the human rights of ordinary Venezuelans are too controversial and "political" a matter for them, and therefore they have cancelled the showing of the acclaimed documentary "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised". Though they lack the determination to resist political pressure for censorship, AI still acknowledges that the film is relevant to the human rights concerns they had wanted to "highlight".

This selective attention to human rights is contrary to the avowed mandate of Amnesty. We regard the human rights of Venezuelans no less important than those of Palestinians, or our own. And we understand well that a world in which the rights of some can be sacrificed is a world in which the rights of all are unacceptably insecure. So we choose solidarity instead of selective concern.

More:
http://www.canpalnet.ca/archive/amnestystmt.html

[joshcryer]

47. Have you seen X Ray of a Lie?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

59. You mean the scene in which the leaders of the coup announce

that they are disbanding the national legislature, suspending the Constitution, and disbanding the Supreme Court were fabricated?

I think not.

[joshcryer]

77. Watch "X-Ray of a Lie."

It might be eye opening.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

80. So the coup plotters weren't dissolving

all those government branches?

[ooglymoogly]

84. and yet it does not mitigate what actually happened.

It is not difficult to set up red herrings to knock down. It is the resort of scoundrels.

[Judi Lynn]

85. They also sent out the police to round up every government Chavez-supporting official

and throw him/her in jail. This sent many of them into hiding immediately to avoid being imprisoned.

Absolutely monstrous.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

58. Besides, I have seen this movie before

First, in the demonization of democratically elected Salvador Allende in Chile, which ended in a CIA-fomented coup in which Allende was killed and the brutal Augusto Pinochet came to power.

Second in the demonization of the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, because they overthrew Washington's pet dictator, Anastasio Somoza and accepted aid from Cuba. The Reagan administration even charged the Sandinistas with anti-Semitism, which was later revealed to be totally bogus, hatched in the minds of some of the same crew that brought you the invasion of Iraq. The Reagan and Poppy Bush administrations badgered the Nicaraguans in every way possible and forced them to fight CIA-backed insurgents at a time when they were trying to improve the living standards of their people. The constant harassment and sabotage continued until the Nicaraguans voted the "right" way in 1990.

At the very same time, the governments of El Salvador and Guatemala were literally massacring whole villages, but that was supposed to be OK, because those villagers were "guerrillas."

I had a fellow graduate student who had done a post-college road trip of driving to Panama. His opinion was that all of Central America except Costa Rica desperately needed a revolution, because the poverty was unimaginable. And yet our government hassled and attacked one of the few governments that was sincerely trying to better the lot of its people.

I'm seeing that movie again in Venezuela.

[fascisthunter]

3. but, but, but it's a dictatorship

and he has bad "friends" so we have to hate him....

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. One of the social by-products of Capitalism in the 21st Century is the existence of constant turmoil

What would anyone expect to find where predatory capitalistic practices exist?

[bvar22]

5. Rec #5

The Populist Reforms spreading across Latin America gives me hope for The World.
They are nothing short of bloodless revolutions.

"The worst enemy of humanity is U.S. capitalism. That is what provokes uprisings like our own, a rebellion against a system, against a neoliberal model, which is the representation of a savage capitalism. If the entire world doesn't acknowledge this reality, that nation states are not providing even minimally for health, education and nourishment, then each day the most fundamental human rights are being violated."
----Bolivian Reform President Evo Morales

FDR said much the same thing in 1944 with his Economic Bill of Rights.
Bolivian President Evo Morales sounds more like FDR than anyone in the Democratic Party Leadership.

VIVA Democracy!!!
I pray we get some here soon!

[sabrina 1]

20. South America gives me hope also. They had their 'Arab Spring'

while the Bush gang were busy in the ME and couldn't cope with South America throwing off its far right US backed dictators. And with the Western Multi-corps under control, that region of the world has been taking care of its own business AND beginning the process of getting justice for the victims of those dictators.

Maybe we can have our equivalent of the Arab Spring some day, meantime as Latin America is becoming more and more Democratic, the US is careening towards fascism.

[socialist_n_TN]

21. I agree bvar. I think that the Latin American countries

are the light at the end of the tunnel for the rest of us. They've gone through the Shock Doctrine and have come out on the other side with a fairer economy than we have in THIS country.

Viva Venezuela!

[dkf]

6. It's probably true that if no one seems really well off then everyone thinks they are ok.

Put one rich person who gets to buy stuff in the mix and the equation changes.

Envy is an ugly thing.

[Peace Patriot]

10. There are plenty of rich people in Venezuela. With USAID (our tax dollars) they form

the rightwing opposition. They're the ones living in upscale rich enclaves in Caracas and buying imported Gucci bags and caviar--the ones who were basically giving the oil away to multinationals, when they were in charge in the 1990s, while raking off the top for themselves and utterly neglecting their own country and its massive poor population--the ones who supported the 2002 coup attempt, cuz they don't just want to be rich, they want ALL the money.

--

"...if no one seems really well off then everyone thinks they are ok."

--

Believe me, they don't just seem well off--they ARE well off--and everybody knows it. It's not as if they don't flaunt it.

--

"Put one rich person who gets to buy stuff in the mix and the equation changes."

--

There are plenty of rich people "in the mix"--and that has not changed the fact that 64% of Venezuelans give their well-being a high rating--one of the highest in the world. Your premise doesn't hold up.

--

Nobody's taking their property. The Venezuelan constitution protects private property and the Chavez government has respected that provision. They've also been extremely careful about land reform--a well thought out program that requires 5 years of food production before new farmers or farmer co-ops get title to the land, and they are given technical help, marketing help and loans by the government. The government has mostly distributed unused government lands and lands for which there is no clear title.

But they have instituted fair taxation and consistent collection of taxes. And, though the Chavez government didn't nationalize the oil, they renegotiated the oil contracts to favor Venezuela and its social programs. There is now more oil money and it is being more evenly distributed instead of going straight into pockets of the rich with no benefit to anyone else.

They've nationalized some businesses in critical sectors (either scofflaw businesses or major industries, like steel, where management refused to sign a union deal and had brought construction projects around the country to a halt, or, for instance, a big supermarket chain that was hoarding food to drive up prices and/or to cause unrest). Venezuela has a mixed capitalist/socialist economy, with the government doing a lot of jawboning about sharing and "raising all boats" (common decency).

Your point is therefore not relevant and does not explain why 64% of the population rates their well-being very high--putting Venezuela among the five best countries in the world on this indicator.

Income, though greatly improved, as to equality, is NOT equal. The Chavez government has cut poverty in half and extreme poverty by more than 70% but there is still that other half, and that other 30%--and the ones raised out of poverty are not rich. They merely now have the minimum income needed not to be categorized as "poor" or "extremely poor." They are not rich, but now they have prospects. They have hope.

The evidence is that most people feel well-being in Venezuela because everyone is being taken care of. It's an inclusive economy. The poorest can get food, medical care, shelter and can go as high as they are able to in the educational system. Small business is prospering. Unemployment is low. Most are getting decent wages or better. Things are FAIR--or more fair than they have ever been. This makes people feel good--even if they are not rich. They experience a sense of justice and decency around them, and they know that their government leaders care about the poor, the workers, small business and the entire well-being of the society. This creates a sense of security. The feeling of well-being is not entirely about material goods or income--it's about feeling that you are part of a progressive society--a collective effort to make things right for everybody.

Some of the questions in this Gallup poll were about the future--how do things look for you five years from now?

If you were a poor person who, prior to the Chavez government, was trapped in poverty with no hope of getting an education, or of your children getting educated and advancing, and now you are in school finishing your high school degree, or are in re-training, say, to become a nurse, and your children have adequate nutrition and clothing and are staying in school, even if you are still quite poor, by most standards, wouldn't you feel a sense of "well-being"?

And what about your neighbors who see these things happening to a once hopeless and struggling family--say, one where the teenagers, feeling no prospects for themselves, had joined a gang and were robbing people in the neighborhood--and you see all this desperation start to turn around? And meanwhile, you yourself are able to buy food in a subsidized store and are able to put better meals on the table?

Optimism. It's not about envy. It's about optimism, no matter what your situation. Poor Venezuelans DO see the rich people around them, and DO see big inequities all around them, yet large numbers of them feel "well-being." It's not because they don't see poverty and inequality; it's because they see their leaders, their government and their society DOING something about the poverty--giving people a helping hand to bootstrap themselves. Give poverty-stricken people some help--on food, on bus tickets, on schooling, on medical care--and soon they are doing something about it themselves. Nobody's going to let them die of starvation. Nobody's going to let them die of a curable illness, if it can be helped. Nobody's going to let their intelligence and creativity go undeveloped and untapped, for lack of educational opportunities. Society recognizes their worth as human beings. And when you live in a society that is trying to do that--to re-ignite a sense of human worth and dignity--you feel better about your own "well-being."

The syndrome of hopelessness that is now hitting the U.S.A. is INDUCED by those who are LOOTING society. There is a very obvious program to break the collective will of the American people to have a just and fair society--to destroy all the social supports that we've put in place--and to spread a sense of powerlessness and hopelessness as to advancement. That's why U.S. numbers in this Gallup poll are so low for a country as rich as this one. It's not that there are billionaires to envy, which makes your own lot look bad; it's that our leaders, our government and our corporate rulers--sometimes explicitly, other times subtly--convey the message that ONLY billionaires are worthy--and all the people who actually contribute to society, and create the wealth--the workers in various industries, the nurses, the teachers, the emergency responders, the small business people (biggest employers in the U.S.A.), the librarians, the police officers, the environmental inspectors, the mechanics, the retail clerks, the hair dressers, the taxi drivers, the bus drivers, the truck drivers, the small farmers, etc.--aren't worth shit. Let the banks and the insurance corporations and the credit card companies squeeze them to death. Let the corporations steal their pensions and loot Social Security. Let the mortgage lenders, betting on defaults, put them out of their homes. Let Diebold (s)elected governors destroy their unions. And, for many emergency responders, police and private professionals in National Guard service, let them be sent to Iraq as "cannon fodder" for a corporate oil war.

Attitude. It's about the attitude at the top, and the cohesiveness and optimism of the society in every strata. The attitude of "fuck you/ I've got mine" pervades the top layers of our society and infects much of the poor and middle class with LOSS of a sense of well-being. In Venezuela, it's the reverse. Their government is constantly telling them that "you count." It's constantly encouraging them to vote and to participate in public life. People who have always been neglected, ignored, spat upon and exploited feel empowerment and hope for the future. They have done this for themselves--as we, the people here in the U.S. once did it for ourselves--by electing a government that is responsive to the needs of the people and by utilizing the opportunities that their government has created for them.

We can do that, too--as we did by putting FDR in power for four terms--and though our situation is unique in some respects, it is no more difficult than Venezuelans faced, and than much of Latin America faced, a decade ago. They've struggled to achieve what they've achieved, and it looks like we're going to have to struggle, too, and start all over again to create a democracy and a decent life for all.

It's not what you have that creates a sense of well-being. It's that everybody can have it, and that together you can improve what everybody has. Gallup's questions focus on the individual but what the individuals are saying is about society.

Is society working for you? Do you feel comfortable within it? Can you advance within it? Do you feel worthwhile? Are you confident that you will have enough to eat, not be abandoned when you are sick, not be left jobless and homeless? Are you hopeful? Are you happy?

These questions are contingent upon society itself being worthwhile because you cannot have "well-being" alone. Your "well-being" is largely dependent upon how people and institutions regard you. You might maintain a sense of well-being, despite society's disdain, but that is very difficult, and, if society's disdain is severe enough, you could lose everything and you could die.

That's how people are feeling in the U.S. these days, with more to come, I fear. Venezuela is heading in the opposite direction--toward a caring and cohesive and hopeful society. We need to find the way to turn our society around, as they did. And it is not going to be easy; nor was it for them. (A hint at how they did it: They STARTED by creating an honest, transparent, internationally certified election system--something we have lost, or rather, have been robbed of.)

[dkf]

24. Then what is this all about?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/23/world/americas/23venez.html


Venezuela, More Deadly Than Iraq, Wonders Why

Meridith Kohut for The New York Times
Relatives mourned Yanil Cemeño in Caracas, the fourth child in his family to be killed. Venezuela’s murder rate exceeds Iraq’s. More Photos »
By SIMON ROMERO
Published: August 22, 2010

CARACAS, Venezuela — Some here joke that they might be safer if they lived in Baghdad. The numbers bear them out.
Multimedia

In Iraq, a country with about the same population as Venezuela, there were 4,644 civilian deaths from violence in 2009, according to Iraq Body Count; in Venezuela that year, the number of murders climbed above 16,000.

Even Mexico’s infamous drug war has claimed fewer lives.

Venezuelans have absorbed such grim statistics for years. Those with means have hidden their homes behind walls and hired foreign security experts to advise them on how to avoid kidnappings and killings. And rich and poor alike have resigned themselves to living with a murder rate that the opposition says remains low on the list of the government’s priorities.

Then a front-page photograph in a leading independent newspaper — and the government’s reaction — shocked the nation, and rekindled public debate over violent crime.

[Peace Patriot]

26. What's that about? It's about Simon Romero being an asshole. nt

[JackRiddler]

15. Such nonsense. And by the way, how do you think Venezuelans would have answered in 1989?

[sabrina 1]

22. You don't know much Venezuela, do you?

Before Chavez, that country had an over 80% poverty and illiteracy rate. The top 20% owned everything. Much like what's happening here, because the policies which are destroying this country, had already devastated Latin America, the ME and Africa. But now, all these regions are rising up and kicking out the neo-libs and neo-cons who care about one thing, MONEY. MONEY is their GOD. Now, many Latin American countries have elected leaders who put PEOPLE FIRST. Like Chavez.

He has reduced the poverty rate by 50%. In the same period here in the US, they Capitalists have managed to go in the opposite direction, well on their way to wiping out the middle class and putting one in six US children into poverty.

He kept his promise regarding wiping out illiteracy also, believing that to keep a vibrant society going, a true democratic nation, the people need to be educated.

So, it's little wonder that Venezuelans feel a whole lot better about their government than Americans feel about theirs.

You should ignore the well-funded propaganda of the Western media regarding Latin America. The Multi Nationals did not want this kind of success, it exposed their horrific, greedy, failed policies for what they are.

[me b zola]

27. Ah, can't have the little people feeling good about life

now can you?

Twisted

[Enthusiast]

48. You haven't been tomb-stoned yet?

I do not understand DUs moderators allowing a constant stream of right wing philosophy coming from well known sources.

[Judi Lynn]

54. Strange observation. Do you have any evidence of this for everyone who doesn't believe it?

What could "Put one rich person who gets to buy stuff in the mix and the equation changes" possibly mean, anyway?

[kenny blankenship]

8. The Gun Forum should be thrilled!

Venezuela is like number 3 or 4 on the list of homicides per capita. So this proves you don't need a low murder and violent crime rate to be a country with a high self-reported quality of life. You just need to be good at ducking and reloading.

[Peace Patriot]

12. "Blackouts, inflation and crime, oh my!"

"Blackouts, inflation and crime, oh my!"

"Blackouts, inflation and crime, oh my!"

"Blackouts, inflation and crime, oh my!"

It gets so monotonous after a while. It used to be "dictator!," "dictator!," "dictator!". And then they came up with these new "talking points" at their USAID-funded seminars--all reflected, echoed and trumpeted by the corpo-fascist media.

Every country has problems. Every government has things they have failed to address, can't address or address in the wrong way. But one particular country gets ragged day in, day out, 24/7, by their own corpo-fascist media and by ours and the "western world"'s, for every social or infrastructure problem that can be exaggerated out of all proportions, when compared to the problems in OTHER countries--and that country--the one that is treated with such immense unfairness--is Venezuela.

You want to put your progressive, social conscience to work, try exercising it on Colombia, where the MILITARY, funded by $7 BILLION in our tax dollars, has been MURDERING thousands of trade unionists, human rights workers, teachers, community activists, journalists, political leftists, peasant farmers and others, and has displaced 5 MILLION peasant farmers from their lands, with state terror--the worse human displacement crisis on earth, in a country with one of the worst rich/poor discrepancies in Latin America and some of the worst poverty.

Why pick on Venezuela? They have problems. We have problems (God! Do we have problems!) Everybody has problems. And no good government ever solved them all.

You just identify yourself as a rightwinger by saying this. It's the "talking point" of the CIA-tutored rightwing Venezuelans who, after they kidnapped the elected president and threatened his life, then suspended the constitution, the courts, the National Assembly and all civil rights. They suspended the rule of law, in their 2002 coup attempt, and they'd do it again in a minute, if they could! And now they're blabbering about crime!

The Chavez government could do more about this. So could the state (provincial) governments (many run by rightwing governors). So could the local police. But I guarantee you this: If the Chavez government conducted a crackdown on guns and crime, the screamers of "dictator!," "dictator!," "dictator!" would be screaming their scream again, followed by the New York Slimes and the Associated Pukes. They and their corporate ruler/war profiteer cohorts will use ANYTHING--any handle they can grab--to blast away at Chavez and get him out in 2012. And their inconsistency is amusing. One day, they're screaming "dictator!" and the next "incompetent!"--can't even control street crime.

Give it up. Really. Focus on Colombia and Honduras--U.S. client states where people are being murdered for exercising their civil rights. Or how about the use of drones in Afghanistan for a topic about crime? Drones with software that seems to be a reliable as Diebold's. Lot of crimes going on in the world. But it's only the official ones that we can try to influence with public opinion.

[kenny blankenship]

14. I'm a rw'er? LoL

You spent a bunch of time there, making a fool of yourself.

[Peace Patriot]

17. It's a RW "talking point." And it is absurd to bring it up in this context except as a RW "talking

point."

'Don't look at Venezuelans' immense satisfaction with their lives--their sense of well-being--one of the highest in the world--which is most certainly related to major achievements of the Chavez government, on income equality, education, health care, employment, a sense of fairness, public participation and empowerment and other quality of life issues they have worked on.

'No, don't look at that. Look at the high murder rate in Venezuela INSTEAD.'

That is exactly what RWer's do. I've seen it time and again. Misdirection. Snideness. Off-topic posts. Short posts. Hit posts.

Here I bring something very substantive to the discussion of Chavez and Venezuela at DU--a Gallup poll that puts them 5th in the world on Venezuelans' sense of well-being--a very positive thing, that undermines the lies that are told about Chavez and Venezuela by the RW opposition, the U.S. government and the RW press, and you have nothing to say about that. All you can do is snipe about the crime rate--one of three RW "talking points" in the recent by-elections in Venezuela. You know, it's possible that without the high crime rate, Venezuela would FIRST in the world, on its citizens' perception of their well-being.

First. In. The. world. What would you say about that? Let me guess. 'Most Germans in Nazi Germany also felt a sense of well-being--it's meaningless.'

I've seen that, too. When all else fails, go to the Hitler thing--no matter how non-sensical it is. Anything to counter positive news on Venezuela.

It's just so...um...rightwing of you.

Sorry! I take it back. You didn't go to the Hitler thing. It's just that posts like yours always seem to end up that way--to escalation of the negative impression of Venezuela under the Chavez government, because the poster can't really absorb contrary information. But obviously Venezuelans CAN. Despite a crime high rate they feel a high sense of well-being, in big numbers. Whether or not some of them factored in the high crime rate--as something they worry about, or have been affected by--we don't really know. But it would be a reasonable point to make about this poll. Would the numbers be even higher without the high crime rate?

However, your point seems to be merely to get the high crime rate mentioned--to aid in the weird bogeyman picture of Chavez (the 'incompetent dictator') or to sully socialism as somehow inherently lawless--and, above all, to make sure that the positive impression that Venezuelans themselves give, of their lives, in this poll, is muddied--so that casual readers won't remember it clearly and will associate it with gunplay or murder.

This is a RW tactic.

[Enthusiast]

49. I'm with you, 100%

It's a RW tactic and it is very prevalent on the DU.

We simply can't point out ANY positives about a socialist government without all sorts of attacks from the DU RW actors. We have already seen what decades of U.S. sponsored RW authoritarian rule looks like in Central and South America and it ain't pretty.

[bvar22]

35. Someone made a fool of themselves in this thread,

and it wasn't Peace Patriot.

[Enthusiast]

50. Agreed....nt

[Karmadillo]

52. ALERT!!! Factmonger on the board!!!! ALERT!!!

Seriously, how can we have a constructive discussion about Venezeuela if you're going to be using facts and thinking and stuff?

[joshcryer]

76. The only thing I got from that post was "high murder rate" + "high inflation" = irrelevant.

Basically crypto-Stalinism at its best.

[Judi Lynn]

55. Maybe all the poll participants were too stupid to make allowance for your penetrating observation.

Maybe they agree with you but Gallup was too dishonest to mention it.

They have responded similarly in another poll by a large Latin American polling group, as well, so it appears two large, well-known polling firms are trying to pull a fast one, if you're right.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

60. South Africa's right up there in the murder rates, too

Does that mean that getting rid of apartheid was a bad thing?

[TheKentuckian]

9. K&R

[Odin2005]

11. K&R

[indepat]

13. Not surprising the most equal country in Latin America on income income distribution has the elected

leader who is seemingly #1 on our nation's list of the hemisphere's bad guys. :patriot:

[slipslidingaway]

16. knr nt

[Distant Observer]

18. Be assured, the OFFICIAL STORY on Chavez will be maintained. It is hard to tell the truth

when the OFFICIAL STORY makes you seem a liar or a fool.

If and when the time come, Chavez will appear the "Gaddafi-like" mad dictator whose policies are causing immense harm to his people. There will be protests and great pressure to do something about Venezuela.

More happily, the facts on the ground throughout South America are change so much, maybe the truth will peek through all the propaganda.

[joshcryer]

19. How do they rank on the corruption and democracy and happiness indexes?

Oh, right, those reports are invalid.

[Distant Observer]

23. Don't worry, ELECTIONS DON'T COUNT until the "people" get rid of the "dictator." And WAR is PEACE.

[bluestate10]

33. Some wars are necessary for the survival of humankind as a whole. nt

[Distant Observer]

43. Like the dozens of "Necessry Wars" and proxy-wars US carried out in Latin America????

[Enthusiast]

51. Like Iraq? nt

[Peace Patriot]

32. Do tell us, joshcryer. How does Venezuela rate on those indices?

And like I do in my post, please provide links.

Last I had news of this, I think circa 2006-2007, Venezuela had the highest, or one of the highest, ratings on citizen satisfaction with their democracy and on general happiness, in Latin America. I don't think the rating was worldwide, as this Gallup one is. (But the democracy rating may have been western hemisphere. Venezuela rated very high.)

On corruption, I don't know if there is some sort of rating for that, but I would guess that Venezuela is little different from most Latin American countries--a lot of low level corruption, in the police force and in some of the bureaucracies (bearing in mind, as I'm sure you would, that Chavez only runs the national government, and there are many rightwing governors of the provinces).

But the advantage with Leftist government (whether national or provincial)--as opposed to Rightwing government--is that the age-old, entrenched, corrupt, rich, rightwing elite has been ousted--so, whatever corruption there is, it is more democratic (benefitting more people)--but, most of all, the government is looking out for the people, who--in the case of the national government in Venezuela--are getting MUCH MORE benefit from government than they EVER did before, and are seeing their incomes, their pensions, their nutrition, their educational opportunities, their job opportunities, their local community infrastructure, their health care and their voices in government, and other indicators, all DRAMATICALLY improved. So if there is corruption at the top in Venezuela--which I have not heard anything about--they are not being selfish and greedy; everybody's benefitting.

You know, I find it kind of amazing that anybody could side with the rightwing opposition to the Chavez government--not just because they already have such experienced defenders, funders and propagandists (much of it paid for with our tax dollars)--but because they were so very, very, VERY negligent of their own country and of the massive poor majority of their brother and sister Venezuelans.

These people were GIVING AWAY THE OIL to multinational corporations, in a 10/90 split favoring the corporations, while raking profit off the top for themselves, to buy their imported Gucci bags and caviar--a situation that Chavez corrected by renegotiating the contracts and being tough about it (to a 50/50 split with 60/40 government control), for which the Chavez government earned the undying vicious enmity of Exxon Mobil (which, though they walked out of the talks, remains a dangerous player).

The rightwing, when they were in power, did nothing on land reform--an enormous problem in Venezuela, with the poor peasant farmer population mostly driven into urban squalor and Venezuela almost entirely losing food security. (Another problem the Chavez government has addressed, with a well thought out program, for a very difficult, long term problem. Food security takes to decades to establish.) They created a very rich oil elite in the urban areas, addicted to imports including imported corporate culture. (The Chavez government has fostered Venezuelan artists instead.) They were letting masses of children go hungry. There were children with no shoes--they couldn't go to school. The list just goes on and on, of the things they neglected in every sphere including economic development and infrastructure.

Well, I've experienced this kind of rich elite here, now, in the U.S. The outsourcers of jobs. The destroyers of "the commons." The looters of resources and government coffers. The uber-greedy. I've been watching them since Reagan let the Savings & Loan institutions loot the "little peoples" savings and re-wrote the tax code to favor the rich, and meanwhile colluding on massive numbers of murders in Latin America, through Clinton's "neo-liberal" song and dance, to the Bush Junta and greed that was simply unimaginable in a democratic country, and more mass murder--mostly in the Middle East but also in Colombia--and torture. These are things I didn't think I would ever see in this country.

And I am agog every day at how much our country is now becoming like rightwing-run Venezuela, prior to Chavez, and like other Latin American countries, driven into ruin by their rich elites and the deals with corporations and the IMF/World Bank. It's the same attitude--that others are peons and of no consequence, and that 'we the elite' are 'born to rule'--a profoundly anti-democratic attitude that is always accompanied by enormous greed, enormous poverty and enormous neglect tantamount to treason. This is not the country I grew up in. But this is the country that the U.S. has become. So I understand these traits better now when I spot them in other countries.

When you talk about "corruption" it's like you are fussing over your shoelaces while a half-a-mile-wide tornado is barreling down upon you. Yeah, it's important to tie your shoelaces--and if you don't you might trip as you run--but if the house you are standing next to is getting swept into the sky, you really don't have time to stop and fuss with such a thing. You have to take your chances and run. The rich elites and their corporate masters swept through Latin America like a big tornado, sucking up all the resources and all the money and all the power, until there was destruction all round them--and the rest of the people in the country had to clean up this enormous mess. Yes, it's important to address corruption--just like it's important to tie your shoelaces. But the BIGGER PICTURE must be taken into account. The corruption of the rich is ENORMOUS and DANGEROUS. Just putting that right may be all that a good government can do.

That there is probably petty corruption in Venezuela is not unusual in Latin America, and it is nothing compared to all the oil profits being bled out, and only a tiny elite benefiting, and Venezuela losing food security, and masses of children growing up hungry and uneducated and their poor parents in despair. Do you tie your shoelaces in that situation or do you deal with the really big problems of extreme poverty and the powerlessness of the poor majority?

What YOU don't seem to get--with your whiny and non-fact-based comment--is that MOST Venezuelans feel that their government has made the right choices and they now have a sense of well-being--one of the highest such ratings in the world. Doesn't that give you some clue as what Venezuelans' priorities are, as to tying shoelaces vs. dealing with the enormous economic tornado that had struck them and its aftermath?

If THEY thought that corruption was a big problem--something to worry about--they wouldn't have such a high sense of well-being. But they DO. So you need to take YOUR criticisms and ask yourself, why are these NOT Venezuelan priorities, as to their well-being? It's not the other way around--that I have to answer to you, about whatever your anti-Chavez "talking point" of the day is. I have presented you with a FACT--an actually rightwing/corporate polling organization that says that Venezuelans are overwhelmingly content with their society and their own prospects within it.

You are answering a FACT with vague accusations--so typical of anti-Chavez propaganda. You need to get out of the accusatory mode and into the thinking mode. Why do Venezuelans overwhelmingly feel that they are doing well? Not, why they SHOULDN'T feel well-being because YOU think they shouldn't. But why THEY gave such high positive answers, in their own right.

And if you think the poll is wrong, do please examine the poll and tell us why you think that. And give us links to all these polls you know about, or think are out there, about all the corruption and crime and misery and tyranny that people are feeling in Venezuela, in contradiction of this Gallup poll.

I'm no fan of these pollsters. So I'm open to whatever you have to say about it, provided that it makes sense to me and has a basis in reality.

[inna]

39. bravo!

:applause:

[joshcryer]

44. Very low.

[Enrique]

57. since Peace Patriot gave you such a long response

and since she gave links in her OP, you should take some time and find some links to support your assertions.

Just out of courtesy.

[joshcryer]

61. You assume that Peace Patroit and I have not had this discussion before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index not doing so well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient as bad as the USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Planet_Index much better but on a discernable decline, dropped 10 places in 3 years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index really poor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Peace_Index one of the most violent places on the planet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfaction_with_Life_Index doing good though

edit: but not so good on violent murders: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

As you can see the indexes are all over the fucking place. Cherrypicking one index tells you nothing about the overall environment. For example, Venezuela and the USA are "most satisfied" but ... so is Saudia Arabia, but I don't see anyone here celebrating how awesome the emirates are!

Chavez is the only leader on the planet (and Castro) who have regular praise and adulation from the left. It's really unfortunate.

[Enrique]

62. I think the cherry-picking works the other way

thanks for those links, first of all. I was aware of all those problems, especially the terrible violence, which is why I was surprised by this Gallup result. I think it's because the press coverage of Venezuela is terrible. It reports on Venezuela as if it is an enemy.

[joshcryer]

63. I posted all I could find with a good breakdown.

No cherrypicking. I do not come away looking at those indexes thinking I'd want to live in Venezuela, I know that much.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

69. In the right location, Venezuela might be preferable to the US.

I assume they have free healthcare, for example.

It's the old ploy of instigating unrest (CIA in bed with Venezuelan RW elements) and then decrying instability.

Despite a 60 year embargo by the biggest economy on earth, Castro has managed to provide better health care than the US, at a cheaper price.

[Peace Patriot]

81. No, we haven't had this discussion before. The Gallup poll is new--and the latest evidence of...

...what Venezuelans think of their own country.

You have not addressed why you think that Venezuelans placing their country 5th in the world on their own well-being is wrong. Is the poll wrong? Is it flawed? Do you think Venezuelans are ignorant, stupid, don't understand their own lives and society, can't see how bad off they are? Why do you think Venezuelans don't consider the things YOU think they should consider in evaluating their lives within their society?

Maybe Venezuelans just don't read The Economist, because they think it's a bunch of crap. That's one of the surveys you cite--The Economist's index on democracy. The Economist is one of the worst offenders as to biased writing against the Chavez government and the Left in Latin America. They are as bad as the Wall Street Urinal. So I take their opinion of Venezuela's democracy with a grain of salt. Venezuelans' opinion of their own democracy--which they rated the best in Latin America, except for Uruguay--in the Latinobarometro poll, in the same year--is a MUCH MORE reliable indicator of the REAL state of democracy in Venezuela. The poll you cite is based on what The Economist considers important in a democracy (free ride for corporations?), and the one I cited is based on what Venezuelans themselves think of their democracy--the ones who are living it and creating it.

The Economist is way wrong in its rankings. They list Colombia as a "flawed democracy" and they don't list Venezuela as a democracy at all--but as what they called a "hybrid regime" (between "flawed democracy" and "authoritarian regime") forty countries below Colombia. This is outrageous.

At the time of this Economist survey, Colombia was being run as a criminal enterprise, by Bush pal, mafioso Alvaro Uribe, some 70 of whose closest associates are now under investigation or already in jail for ties to the death squads, drug trafficking, illegal domestic spying, bribery (trying to get Uribe another term in a backroom deal), corruption and other crimes. Uribe himself would be in jail if the U.S. hadn't helped spirit witnesses against him out of Colombia. Colombia prosecutors are pursuing one of those with an Interpol warrant--so they may nail him after all. Thousands of trade unionists, human rights workers, teachers, community activists, journalists, political leftists, peasant farmers and others were being MURDERED by the Colombian military and its paramilitary death squads for exercising their civil rights, and 5 MILLION peasant farmers were being driven from their lands by state terror, with the lands given out to political cronies. Uribe stated publicly that everyone who opposes him "is a terrorist"! He was spying on everybody--judges, prosecutors, politicians, human rights groups, trade unionists, and was more than likely giving "lists" to the death squads. This was one of the filthiest and bloodiest regimes in the world.

How many people have died in Venezuela for exercising their civil rights? How many peasant farmers have been driven from their lands? The OPPOSITE is occurring in Venezuela. Civil rights have been greatly enhanced. No one is threatened--let alone murdered--for their political views or community organizing. Voter turnouts and public participation--which Venezuelans rate HIGHEST in Latin America, in the Latinobarometro poll--have never been better. And the government is restoring peasant farmers to their farm lands, not robbing them and terrorizing them. It is a democracy--and a good one. And Colombia merely has the forms of democracy. It is actually a bloody-handed oligarchy.

The factual basis of The Economist survey is totally screwed up--and, true to their extreme bias, they rate a country where Drummond Coal and Chiquita Farms hired death squads to take care of their "labor problem," with no interference from the government and significant evidence of government ties to the death squads, as merely a "flawed democracy." Venezuela, on the other hand, a country with strong labor unions, and good wages, pensions and health care, gets dumped down forty countries almost to "authoritarian regime." Dead trade unionists in one country--hundreds of them. Thriving trade unionists in the other. Which one is a democracy?

Well, I can tell you which one I'd prefer to be living in, as a working person! Maybe that's the flaw in the Gallup poll. Venezuelans made their country 5th in the world as to their own sense of well-being because it's NOT Colombia! (--and since they live next door to Colombia, they've had a front row seat to that bloody tyranny.)

They are also wrong about the U.S., which they categorize as a "full democracy." It would seem, by "full democracy," they mean a country with corporate-controlled 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines in every state with virtually no audit/recount controls, unlimited corporate money in political campaigns, three wars going and more in the planning stages, unbelievably bloated war spending, blatant war criminals running around free, torture dungeons around the world, a health care system that is the scandal of the world, a prison system that is the scandal of the world, severe cutbacks in education, the closing of public libraries, parks and other facilities, hand-over-fist looting of government coffers by corporations and contactors, extremely unfair taxation favoring the rich, and every government building in Washington DC and increasingly in state capitols, barricaded against the public. And I haven't even begun to list the ways in which the U.S. is a "flawed democracy" and, in many tragic ways, not a democracy any more at all.

The Economist: U.S., "full democracy." Colombia, "flawed democracy." Venezuela, "hybrid regime."

Venezuela, by contrast, holds honest, transparent, internationally certified elections--which, on the face of the facts, guarantee a true vote count, in addition to being closely monitored and declared honest and aboveboard by the Carter Center, the OAS, the EU and other election groups, who don't just drop in on election for a superficial survey, but work to set up the election system, months and sometimes years in advance, and then have hundreds of election monitors crawling all over the country during elections. In addition, Venezuela does not permit corporate money and lobbyists to control their elections or run their government.

Venezuela has only a modest defense budget (lower than Brazil's) and no wars going and no wars planned. They have no war criminals running around free. They have no torture dungeons. They have a poor prison system but they are working to improve it. They have health care available to all with free care for the poor. And they are pouring money into education, literacy, libraries and public facilities and services of every kind including many community controlled projects, rather than pouring money down the rat-hole of the rich. And I haven't even begun to list the contrasts between Venezuela and the U.S. on key democracy and well-being indicators.

Clearly, the Economist so-called democracy survey favors a corporate-fascist state over a genuine democracy. And I am not basing that judgement on my mere opinion or favoring of the Left. I am basing it mostly on FACTS. I have studied both election systems. I know what I'm talking about. I have studied other indicators as well and the trends in these two countries are very clear: The U.S. is a corporatocracy with militaristic and fascist policies in ascendancy and a completely non-transparent vote counting system. All money and power is being sucked up to the top. Venezuela is the opposite--a real democracy, with real vote counts, and populist policies in ascendancy. The money and power are being spread around to everyone.

Venezuela has a better democracy than BOTH Colombia and the U.S. That is demonstrable on the FACTS. The Economist wouldn't know a good democracy if it saw one. But Venezuelans know what their country is about--how it works or doesn't work for them--and they judge it very highly indeed on democracy and on well-being. There is no contest between these two surveys. The Economist is wrong--viciously wrong.

[Peace Patriot]

34. In Dec 2006, Venezuelans rated their democracy one of the best in LatAm...

and on measures of political participation, they rated their country first.

-----

]Poll: Venezuelans Have Highest Regard for Their Democracy
http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/2146

Venezuelans view their democracy more favorably than the citizens of all other Latin American countries view their own democracies, except Uruguay, according to a new survey released by the Chilean NGO Latinbarometro last Saturday. Also, Venezuela is in first place in several measures of political participation, compared to all other Latin American countries.

According to the Latinobarometro survey, Venezuelans rank their democracy as being more fully realized than the citizens of all other surveyed countries do except Uruguay. On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 means a country that is not democratic and 10 isa country that is completely democratic, Venezuelans, on average, gave their own democracy a score of 7.0. The Latin American average was 5.8, with Uruguay having the highest score, of 7.2, and Paraguay the lowest, at 3.9.

(MORE)
(my emphasis)

----------------------------

[inna]

41. and, the tragically ironic part is that... They Thought They Were Free...

... "gullible", propaganda-believing (North) Americans!... :shrug: - certain historical analogies can't help but come to mind, especially given the rampant militarism and undisguised supremacism/"exceptionalism" in foreign policy and outrageously anti-democratic (with a small d) domestic policies.



Anyway, Viva Venezuela! Latin America is one part of the world that gives so many people a real hope for the humanity.

[joshcryer]

45. Propaganda is believing that one index out of many means something... or that...

...Venezuela actually raised the minimum wage when they only kept it with their absurdly growing inflation. It requires an open mind to absorb a variety of sources rather than pick one and celebrate it as a fact that represents the entire situation.

[Peace Patriot]

64. Thus far in this thread, I've given you THREE fact-based indicators that are positive on Venezuela.

1. Gallup poll this week that puts Venezuela 5th in the world on its citizens' sense well-being.

2. The recent designation of Venezuela as "THE most equal country in Latin America" on income distribution, by the UN Economic Commission on Latin America and the Caribbean.

3. Dec 2006 Latinbarometro poll in which Venezuelans gave their democracy the highest rating in Latin America, except for Uruguay, and first in Latin America on public participation indicators.

You have yet to come up with a single fact--let alone a single citation--to back up your apparent belief that Venezuelans are wrong about their own country.

There are many more facts supporting Venezuelans' positive view of their country and vast improvement of the country on democracy and general well-being under the Chavez government than I haven't mentioned. For instance, the Chavez government has cut poverty in half and extreme poverty by more than 70%; they have cut infant mortality (a major health indicator); they've doubled college enrollment; they've met all of their Millennium goals (mostly poverty indicators); they've run honest, transparent, internationally certified elections; they've encouraged and produced high voter turnouts and high public participation levels.

On crime and corruption, they've created a national police academy to foster professionalism in the police forces, and they've been quick, thorough and public-spirited in addressing other crises, such as the drought-caused hydroelectric power crisis last year and the catastrophic floods this year. It's not as if they're not trying on issues like these--the rightwing "talking point' issues. It's just that the RW doesn't acknowledge what they do, nor does the corporate press here or there. Neither the RW nor the corporate press are problem-solvers. They are merely "talking point" promulgators. But apparently the great majority of Venezuelans feel that security issues like these are being adequately addressed, or they wouldn't give their country a whopping 64% rating on their "well-being"--5th in the world!

Then, there are less sure (less factual) but interesting indicators, such as the president of neighboring Brazil, Lula da Silva, saying, of Chavez, "They can invent all kinds of things to criticize Chavez but not on democracy!" or his calling Chavez "the great peacemaker." Chavez and da Silva met monthly, before da Silva was termed out this year, and collaborated on many common goals and projects. Would da Silva have become such a close ally and friend of Chavez if he thought Chavez was "incompetent" or a "dictator"? Would he have praised him so highly on issues of democracy and peace? Politicians can have ulterior motives for the things they say, and they have certainly been known to lie--but my general sense of da Silva is that he is honest and genuine. I have no reason to think that he didn't mean this praise.

Chavez has had these kind of relations with most Latin American leaders--friendly, collaborative, positive. And, as the pioneer in the leftist democracy revolution in Latin America, he has inspired many positive developments, including a new sense of independence and sovereignty among Latin American countries, and a new sense of cooperation--and new institutions to formalize cooperation--on goals such as social justice, peace and economic development. The social progress in Venezuela is not unique to Venezuela. It's part of a much bigger movement, of which Venezuelans and the Chavez government have been important leaders and idea-generators.

There are some negative indicators--for instance, rightwing gains in the National Assembly, recently--but even FDR had his down moments in by-elections. Overall, Chavez has maintained an astonishing approval rating in the 60% range. Few governments operate with such a consistent and high approval rating.

A few months ago, during the by-elections, it was just over 50% but, with 64% of Venezuelans feeling a sense of well-being, in this current Gallup poll, and other factors--including the oil price (major source of revenue) topping $100/barrel--Chavez's numbers are likely to go back up into the stratosphere. And I think the thing to know about this--on the oil price, for instance--is that Venezuelans know that they will benefit. They know they have a government that is looking out for them--rather than padding their own pockets and those of multinational corporations, as the RW did when they were in charge. And this is WHY they feel "well-being" (note: the poll included questions about future "well-being").

The RW/corporate construction of this is that Chavez is "buying the loyalty" of the poor. Well, why shouldn't he? He was elected to benefit the poor majority--at long last. And when he and his government have been able to, that is what they have done. Even in hard times, like the Bushwhack-induced global economic meltdown, with oil sinking to $40/barrel, they have cushioned the poor. Social programs get cut last. They are a "New Deal" government. They understand that you can't stimulate an economy without putting money into the hands of the poor majority. And you can't have a healthy economy and a decent, healthy society if the people who create wealth--the workers--and the people who hold society together (the mothers, the fathers, the grandparents, the community activists) do not benefit and do not have the government on their side.

The sense of well-being in the U.S. would be a lot higher if our government followed this policy. It is absolutely disgraceful that the U.S. "well-being" rate is so low--lower than Venezuela!--in such a rich country as this one. The difference is that here all the money is being sucked up to the top--into the pockets of billionaires and transglobal corporations--and in Venezuela, it's being spread around among all sectors. For all the Chavez government's enormous effort to eliminate poverty, most Venezuelans are still relatively poor, compared to the U.S., and Venezuela is still a developing country. So, for Venezuela to top the U.S. by nearly 14 points, on the Gallup "well-being" survey, is a comment on our government as well. Our people do not feel nearly as secure as they should, given U.S. wealth. Venezuelans feel significantly more secure than we do!

"Well-being" is not just material goods or income. It is hope--belief in the future, belief that your society is going in the right direction. Compare and contrast, the U.S. and Venezuela, and tell me that we should dwell on the negative of the week about Venezuela. It is not reasonable, when Venezuelans themselves say that, all things considered, they are doing well and believe that they will continue to do so.

[joshcryer]

65. Chavez' ratings are in the shitter and your walls of text aren't changing that.

Propaganda all around.

[inna]

66. .

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Admiral Loinpresser]

70. As opposed to the US,

where the minumum wage hasn't?

[joshcryer]

74. United States inflation rate is 3.8% averaged, lately has been around 2%. Venezuela? 30%.

That's higher than the US in the middle of the Great Depression.

Of course Venezuela had to raise its "minimum wage."

[Judi Lynn]

56. There's a report by a prominent LatAm policy company posted here:

DEMOCRACY IN LATIN AMERICA
http://www.latinobarometro.org/latino/latinobarometro.jsp

[Keith Bee]

25. Maybe we should all move to Scandinavia

Based on survey after survey, those countries seem to be the happiest. :shrug:

[Admiral Loinpresser]

71. If I could get my wife to do it,

I would in a heart beat. I would love to live in a civilized country.

Come to think of it, I did, but decades ago. It was called America.

[Exilednight]

28. Interesting. K&R

[marmar]

30. Is the Chavez Hate Rapid Response Team at happy hour or something?

nt

[socialist_n_TN]

31. Maybe, but I expect them at any time........

Drunken capitalist talking points. I can't wait! :rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

38. aren't they identical to the libyan war faction?

[Puglover]

46. A few of them have weighed in.

Not very convincingly however. We are moving to Ecuador in the next few years. Building a house there now. I cannot wait to be living in my adopted home.

[Judi Lynn]

53. You'll keep posting here, we hope! Very best wishes. n/t

[Zorro]

67. Good luck

Hope you won't find life in Ecuador too surprising.

[Judi Lynn]

40. Here's a chart from Latinobarómetro from 2008 which could be useful:

http://www.latinobarometro.org.nyud.net:8090/fotos/demo-works%20best.JPG

DEMOCRACY IN LATIN AMERICA
http://www.latinobarometro.org/latino/latinobarometro.jsp

Terrific material posted. Thank you very, very much. Rec.

[inna]

68. OMG. IMO, Everybody - every American! - should read these (links below):

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/6158

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/6154

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/5798


Amazing stuff. (Filed under "compare and contrast": policies promoting the public good and presenting interests of the (majority of) people vs. policies serving the ve$ted interests of the tiny, powerful minority.)


Seriously, read these! It's striking and even funny (well, almost) how Chavez is almost literally Obama-in-reverse! LOL

He does exactly the opposite things, it's almost uncanny.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

72. Thank you. n/t

[Zorro]

73. Here's another interesting reference everybody should also read

http://vcrisis.com/index.php?content=pr/200907140953

[joshcryer]

75. Thanks. When the US does that it's denounced loudly.

In fact, prison sentences for such things are considered "justice."

[Admiral Loinpresser]

78. I find the idea that Venezuela doesn't fight fair

on propaganda laughable, when the American media are saturated with anti-Chavez propaganda.

[ChangoLoa]

82. Links written in venezuelanalysis, a site created by the Venezuelan Consul.

That site was created by the Venezuelan Consul (in Chicago) AND is directed by the husband of another Venezuelan Consul (in New York).

Striking and even funny how it has always been the exclusive source of information about Venezuela for one or two posters in the Latin American Forum

[Judi Lynn]

83. Neither striking nor funny nor accurate. n/t

[naaman fletcher]

79. I'm curious

Do venezuelans tend to have consumer debt? One of the things I picked up on during my panama travels and for the last year my African travels is that the average person had family and work issues like anyone else but unlike Americans at five o'clock when it's time for a beer everyone seems much happier and care free than Americans. So, when back in US i started paying more attention to the guy next to me at the bar and his troubles and I have basically concluded that consumer debt is the number one evil in the lives of Americans.

Now I am desparetly afraid of the attempt by the banks to break into the third world through microlending. There are already stories coming out of India of it ruining lives and families and such. I think the fact the microlending is so praised by the corporate media, world bank, etc is all we need to know.