Venezuela's Chavez pushes through 26 decrees

[Zorro]

Source: AP

President Hugo Chavez is aiming to set up neighborhood-based militias, move toward a socialist economy in Venezuela and increase state control over agriculture under a package of laws enacted by presidential decree.

Changes in areas from the military to small business loans were pushed through by the president in 26 laws released Monday in the official gazette. Chavez approved them on the final day of an 18-month period during which lawmakers had granted him special legislative powers.

Critics fumed that Chavez did not consult with major business groups before approving the decrees, and some warned the laws would scare off private investment and further weaken private enterprise.

"We ask the president: Why does he fear democracy?" Fedecamaras business chamber leader Jose Manuel Gonzalez said at a news conference.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080805/ap_on_bi_ge/venezuela_decrees_3

[bitchkitty]

1. Good for Chavez - putting the needs of the people

before the needs of corporations.

[wvbygod]

51. And by decree at that

How nice of him to not bother the little people with a vote or any other inconvenience .

[ohio2007]

123. they voted again...and got it right this time

And by decree at that
Posted by wvbygod
How nice of him to not bother the little people with a vote or any other inconvenience .

[Psephos]

2. Our Venezuelan friends have much to teach us about the workings of democracy

I admire how this was done fearlessly and transparently, too, by waiting until the last possible day to unveil the commands.

[bemildred]

3. Ask that asshole Carmona why he fears democracy.

Chavez does not fear democracy, democracy put him in power.

[realisticphish]

4. and repression will keep him there nt

[bemildred]

8. And elections will keep him there. nt

[realisticphish]

10. elections where he's the only candidate

where opposition groups aren't allowed to participate, where it becomes criminal to criticize him.

Just like every other dictator who began as a man of the people. Only he hates bush, so i guess it's ok.

[bemildred]

14. There have been no such elections in Venezula, and there will not be.

You are making things up because you hate Chavez. Not every "Man of the People" becomes a dictator; but Carmona now there was a wannabe dictator. You could tell he was not going to put up with any rule of law, it was going to be military rule all the way. But the stupid fuckwit forgot to make sure he had the military on his side first.

[ohio2007]

124. Not every "Man of the People" becomes a dictator ......hmm

Since your August post, Hugo now has secured the right to be reelected for life and his competition will be minimized as threats to the state...just a hunch

[paulk]

18. uh, huh

CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela's top court ruled on Tuesday that dozens of politicians, among them leading opponents of President Hugo Chavez, will not be allowed to run in regional elections later this year.

The measure also blocks some government allies but is guaranteed to anger figures such as Leopoldo Lopez, the mayor of a wealthy Caracas neighborhood who had planned to stand for city mayor in November elections ...

The disqualification of candidates is based on an anti-corruption law the government says was supported by opposition parties ...

The politicians are blocked under a law that allows sanctions against public officials accused of corruption even before their cases come to trial ...

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSN053776462...

[Peace Patriot]

35. "The Facts about the List of 'Banned Candidates' in Venezuela"

"The Facts about the List of 'Banned Candidates' in Venezuela"
July 24th 2008, by Francisco Dominguez - Dissident Voice

"Sections of the Venezuelan opposition are opposing a decision by Venezuela’s Comptroller General, Clodosbaldo Russián, who has submitted a list of 386 individuals to be banned from standing for public office for (being guilty of) corruption and/or misuse of public funds. The opposition, finding an echo in sections of the corporate media, has argued that the “list of banned candidates is politically motivated and illegal.”1 They add that the measure is unconstitutional. This interpretation, as we prove below, is simply wrong. The facts do not bear out the charge that this is a politically motivated decision by Venezuelan Comptroller General, nor that it is illegal and/or unconstitutional. In fact, the Comptroller General is merely implementing existing legislation — a great deal of which precedes the Chavez government — aimed at rooting out corruption from the Venezuelan state, and especially the impunity that previously characterised it, one of the heaviest legacies of the oligarchy-led IV Republic. (emphasis added)

(MORE)

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/3669

--------

Sound familiar? I hope we some day have a purge of corrupt Bushites from our system. God, the stench of these people! The rightwing is the same everywhere!

[paulk]

46. and who appoints this "comptroller general" fellow?

You guessed it!

Hugo Chavez!

Isn't it convenient that most of those suspected of corruption (not accused, not convicted) are members of the opposition! But it's ok, because, like - the opposition is BAD! Chavez and his packed Supreme Court are GOOD!

It's so SIMPLE!

[wvbygod]

53. Cool...more edicts by chavez appointment and backed up by a chavez blogsite

One dictator appoints his henchmen to purge candidates. People here are not stupid and
chavez is not running a democracy. He is setting up for dictator for life.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sezu]

56. That's pretty democratic isn't it? lol n/t

[Judi Lynn]

20. DU'ers were aware long ago that the decision to block these candidates being investigated for corrup

corruption was made by a COURT, not by Venezuela's President. Why don't you take the time to learn something about what you're attempting to discuss?

Venezuela's top court bars election candidates
Wed 6 Aug 2008, 1:38 GMT

<-> Text <+> CARACAS, Aug 5 (Reuters) - Venezuela's top court ruled on Tuesday that dozens of politicians, among them leading opponents of President Hugo Chavez, will not be allowed to run in regional elections later this year.

The measure also blocks some government allies but is guaranteed to anger figures such as Leopoldo Lopez, the mayor of a wealthy Caracas neighborhood who had planned to stand for city mayor in November elections.

He had called for street protests if he was barred.

Other opposition politicians affected by the ruling include candidates for governor in three states. The elections will measure the popularity of Chavez's socialist government.

Venezuela's top anti-corruption official was behind the plan to ban close to 300 candidates accused of corruption from running in the elections.

Lopez had called for the move to be declared unconstitutional and a violation of his human rights, but the Supreme Court sided with the government.

"The Constitutional Chamber declares that the mentioned article is constitutional," the court said.

The disqualification of candidates is based on an anti-corruption law the government says was supported by opposition parties.

The opposition says Chavez, who has openly supported the move to block politicians accused of corruption, ordered the courts to disqualify candidates seen as a threat in key seats like Caracas and the nearby state of Miranda.

More:
http://africa.reuters.com/energyandoil/news/usnN05377646.html

[Judi Lynn]

21. The Facts about the List of “Banned Candidates” in Venezuela

The Facts about the List of “Banned Candidates” in Venezuela
by Francisco Domínguez / July 22nd, 2008

~snip~
THE FACTS
1. Comptroller General Clodosbaldo Russian, Venezuela’s top anti-corruption watchdog, submitted a list of 368 individuals (the ‘inhabilitados’) to the country’s National Electoral Council (CNE) asking it to implement a decision to prohibit them from running for public office in the upcoming regional elections in November, because they were being investigated for or had been found guilty of corruption and misuse of public funds.

2. The type of investigation conducted by the Comptroller General, is an obligation of its office, but it applies only to individuals who hold public office. The office of the Comptroller General has the legal authority to carry out administrative investigations into allegations of corruption and misuse of public funds against individuals holding public office.3

3. Although those affected have argued that the measure/decision is unconstitutional because it has not been taken by a court of law (penal or civil), the Comptroller General has argued that Art 65 of the Constitution makes it clear that “Persons who have been convicted of crimes committed while holding office or other offenses against public property, shall be ineligible to run for any office filled by popular vote, for such period as may be prescribed by law after serving their sentences, depending on the seriousness of the offense.” It continues: “Those who have been condemned for crimes committed during the exercise of their functions, which affect the public patrimony, cannot stand for office in any popular election for a period of time, fixed by the law, until the completion of the sentence, and in accordance with the gravity of the crime,” and establishes that sanctions can be applied as a result of civil, penal or administrative investigations.

4. After receiving the list from the Comptroller General (19 June 2008) on the grounds of the provisions in Art 105, the National Electoral Council (CNE) took the decision to approve the list, thus making those on it unable to hold or stand for public office for specified periods which could be up to 15 years. The CNE must be formally informed about this so that, should those individuals register as candidates, the CNE has the legal obligation to reject them. Furthermore, the CNE immediately requested Venezuela’s Supreme Court (TSJ) to pass judgment on those listed who had been put forward as candidates for governorships or mayoralties in the forthcoming elections on 23 November, 2008. Constitutionally, these individuals have the right to appeal to the TSJ against their disqualification to stand for or hold public office and it is on these grounds that the CNE requested the pronouncement of the TSJ. The CNE made it clear that the TSJ must rule on the issue before the period for the registration of candidacies, which is between 5-12 August. On 27 June the National Assembly (AN) discussed the matter and approved the decision by the Comptroller General to disqualify the individuals on the list. The decision by the AN was arrived at on the grounds of the legal and constitutional correctness of the process.

5. The Comptroller General’s Office instigated the investigations against the ‘inhabilitados’ on the list by virtue of Art 105 of the Organic Law of the Comptroller General Office, which predates the 1999 Bolivarian Constitution up to 15 years (it was introduced in 1984 under the presidency of Jaime Lusinchi and was reviewed and confirmed under the administration of President Rafael Caldera in 1995). Therefore, the legal instrument to apply sanctions against individual whose probity as holders of public office was under question was already in existence, but was simply not being applied. The current form of Art 105 was adopted in 2002 by Venezuela’s National Assembly in an almost unanimous vote, with those infavour including the opposition parties that had, at that time, a substantial presence in the Assembly (COPEI, MAS, Socialdemocrats, MVR, Convergencia, AD, COPEI, Alianza Bravo Pueblo, Podemos and Primero Justicia — at the time the chavista alliance had 192 MPs and the opposition had 100 seats in parliament.4 The Organic Law in relation to the Comptroller General’s Office gives competence and authority to the Comptroller General to instigate investigations on holders of public office at all levels about any deviation from the performance of their duties according to existing rules, regulations and laws (Arts 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13), and Arts 91, 92 (see full text of the Organic Law of the Comptroller General Office). Additionally, the Office of the Comptroller General’s attributions is also stipulated in the 1999 Constitution in Arts 25, 274, 287, 288 and 289.5 Furthermore, Art 105 gives the Comptroller General Office the authority to bar individuals from holding office, once the investigation on their probity as holders of public office, regardless of political affiliation.

6. The final list of the individuals affected can be found here. The Comptroller General, Clodosbaldo Russian, formally handed in the list to the CNE on 25 February. At the time, Russian said that the names placed on the list had been based on decisions taken by the TSJ and the Sala Constitucional, through a sentence made in 2005. However, Russian explained that these people had the right to appeal to the TSJ to contest the decision and call for their case to be reviewed.

7. Therefore, in summary, the process of disqualification to hold or stand for office in the case of the 368 individuals on the list produced by Venezuela’s Comptroller General has been:

a) conducted strictly on legal and administrative grounds and taken on the basis of lack of probity or irregularities in the performance of public duties;
b) carried out as part of the constitutional and legal obligation of the duties of the Office of the Comptroller General;
c) taken following decisions of the TSJ back in 2005;
d) made under the authority of the Organic Law of the Comptroller General Office
and of the Constitution of Venezuela;
e) the individuals affected were fully informed throughout.
Furthermore:
e) Art 105, the main — although not the only — legal authority for the disqualifications, precedes the Bolivarian Constitution of 1999; and was in fact introduced in 1984, reviewed and approved in 1999, and again perfected in 2002 (this time) almost unanimously by Venezuela’s National Assembly including the political parties of the opposition COPEI, MAS, Socialdemocrats, Convergencia, AD, COPEI, Alianza Bravo Pueblo, Podemos (on the chavista camp at the time) and Primero Justicia;
f) the individuals on the list have the right to appeal to the Supreme Court (TSJ), they have not made use of this prerogative;
g) the CNE and the National Assembly (both within their specific legal and constitutional competencies) have approved it; the CNE has requested an official constitutional pronouncement by the TSJ;
e) the full implementation of the law in the fight against corruption where every elected public official is accountable is central to the democratic nature of the Bolivarian Revolution.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/07/the-facts-about-the-list-of-%E2%80%98banned-candidates%E2%80%99-in-venezuela/

[IggyReed]

50. Judi Lynn

If you can’t commit fraud what is the point of running for office? THAT is the sign of a functioning democracy to these anti-Chavez propagandists I guess (anything thrown out there will work, it doesn’t have to be factually true, it can be intentionally misleading or outright lies, as long as allegations against Chavez are said, they’re true and signs of his authoritarianism. Colombia? The right wing, death squad, drug running US ally? Nothing is said, big surprise). If a public official commits fraud, rips off tax payers and steals from all of us and can’t run for office the person in charge of the country is Stalin. Case closed.

[Judi Lynn]

61. IN our country, "a public official commits fraud, rips off tax payers and steals from all of us" is

simply a Republican, wouldn't you say?

No wonder it gets these guys wild. Without our right-wing in power, the oligarchy in Venezuela would also have far rougher sledding, as they'd be losing massive funding, and ongoing 24/7 support in seizing the government back and removing all traces of progress, just as our own right-wing has set out to destroy every vestige of Roosevelt's own imprint on our government.

Pity these clowns wouldn't dream of reading some factual history of US policy in Latin America. They clearly need to see more than the propagandists are telling them!

[IggyReed]

62. Maybe...

I think the fraud is bi-partisan really, although the Republicans have made an art form out of it in recent years. I just think it is amazing that we have cronyism coming out of our ears, corruption at all levels of government (politicians leaving office then joining firms to lobby to their former colleagues in the government, then come back to the government with funding by those companies to do their work from the inside) and Chavez is a dictator for actually doing something about that. Like I've been saying in this thread, either corruption is a sign of a healthy democracy to these people or they're applying standards to others they'd never accept for themselves. I think we call that American exceptionalism, it does wonders when you take a position on an issue that can't be logically defended.

[Judi Lynn]

64. It doesn't take them long to spew their labels, like Joe McCarthy, without substance.

When proof is required, they don't have it, so they substitute shrillness, hostility, labels, in the attempt to blow straight past the obligation they have to produce actual facts.

More well-balanced people wouldn't find it possible to be this slip-shod.

[iconicgnom]

103. Thank you!! for these posts. Very much appreciated.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iconicgnom]

102. Making up lies about socialist leaders. Where've I seen that before?

[paulk]

6. ruling by decree is democratic?

I guess I missed that one in civics class....

[bemildred]

7. You need to read up on how law is made here in the good old USA.

Then we can discuss whether the USA is democratic or not.

[realisticphish]

11. what does the status of the USA have to do with Venezuela nt

[bemildred]

12. "Ruling by decree" is how most law is made here in the USA.

It is called "administrative law".

[paulk]

13. can't you do any better than that?

people here aren't stupid, you know.

[bemildred]

15. I guess talking to you got me confused about that for a moment ... nt

[paulk]

16. and here comes the personal insults

typical when you don't have an argument to make.

How can you defend Chavez on this?

All you can do is run out some weak bullshit about "administrative law".

Do you really expect to be taken seriously?

[bemildred]

19. Well, I just couldn't resist after you started talking about not being stupid and everything. nt

[paulk]

23. defend Chavez.

Tell me why it's acceptable, after having had his proposals defeated in a nationwide referendum, for him go ahead and pass those proposals by decree.

Explain to me how this is "democratic".

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[paulk]

29. if he'd done it by decree back then he would have had a civil war

on his hands - which he still may have.

Maybe that's why he's so interested in a citizen's militia.

-----------------

I see you've included the usual allusions to whoever disagrees with you being a Republican. You are laughable in your predictability.

[Judi Lynn]

32. The reforms he was interested in were 33, not the entire 69 issues which appeared in the referendum.

It's completely doubtful he would have had a "civil war on his hands" regarding the reforms he was pursuing.

[paulk]

45. then why did he try to shove all 69 down the throat of VZ?

The opposition wanted seperate votes, why did Chavez do it the way he did? You know why - so he could slip the bad ones past the people mixed in with some good ones. Except it didn't work.

We'll see how the people of VZ react to this latest round of rule by fiat.

[Flatulo]

128. Rest assured...

When Chavez crashes and burns, as he surely will, it will be our fault.

[bemildred]

38. No. You don't listen, you just insult.

You have a chip on your shoulder.

[paulk]

44. LOL!

another completely empty post.

[eridani]

93. Explain why you think it's "undemocratic" for Bill Clinton to have reinstated aid--

--to International Planned Parenthood by executive order? Explain how these "decrees" are different from our "executive orders".

[paulk]

100. get real -

the scope of that executive order is nowhere near what Chavez is attempting.

[eridani]

108. Explain what the difference is between a "decree" and an "executive order" n/t

[paulk]

111. I doubt that anyone who isn't a complete fucking idiot

is going to draw a parallel between an American President's use of executive orders and Chavez's use of decrees.

YMMV

[IggyReed]

114. Really?

Interesting. When Reagan decided to circumvent the US government during the Iran Contra affair, was it a bit authoritarian? I mean, it kinda killed a lot of Nicaraguans, no? Or about he high level knowledge of the Contras drug activities, including the importing of drugs into the US (mainly into poorer inner city regions that severely harmed Americans)? Nixon’s “secret” bombing of Cambodia or Laos? Is killing a few million people authoritarian. Not that that can be worse, but he did it without the consent of the US government. If Chavez killed a few million people in a neighboring country, carpet bombing “anything that moves”, by executive order he’d be comparable, and we have a shining democracy here don’t we? How about Cointelpro and the information that came out of the Church Committee, the massive amounts of crimes that stripped people of their constitutional rights? What about what this current government is doing to constitutional freedoms, and the blocks they are putting up for any oversight? What has the opposition party done about any of this?

Remember what type of police state legislation came after 9/11? That event was horrific, people were frightened, they were under attack. When we give millions of dollars to groups who set up a dictatorship and dissolved the democratically elected government, committed random violence, killed people in “false flag” operations and tried to blame in on Chavez (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwO2iKMS-wQ&feature=related ), when we (a superpower) economically, politically and propaganda wise attack the (much poorer and weaker) country nonstop, when we arm and support Colombian paramilitaries and the narco state there you can rest assured that there will be protective measures, no different than the mindset felt here when we were attacked. Some of them I think are justifiably criticized, but not as a pretext to attack them further like we have or to make weak excuses for our behavior towards the country.

[paulk]

115. those policies did not result from executive orders

but you knew that...

I'm not interested in battling your strawmen.

Run on back to PI - they love this kind of stuff over there.

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dave From Canada]

130. It's obvious. Because King Hugo knows best.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IggyReed]

52. How can you back Chavez...

Does anyone know that a law is in place in Venezuela, thanks to the Chavez government, where if 5%, FIVE PERCENT, of Venezuelans disagree with ANY law passed by decree it can be put up for a vote by the Venezuelan public? Do YOU, in this shining democracy, have that right or anything near it? It’s amazing how EVERY TIME something like this happens a propaganda effort is started, the facts of the issue become secondary and the loudest voices know nothing more than the propaganda they’ve been fed. Anyone who is actually following the situation more closely and knows the facts, who knows more than what they’ve been fed, is pushed to the side, any correction of the fact-less propaganda is ignored as if it wasn’t said. Oh well, if a coup happens (there IS funding of the opposition candidates by the US through the CIA, NED and USAID in open opposition to international law) you’ll have your ready made excuses.

[rinsd]

81. OK. Is instituting laws by decree that have been VOTED DOWN by the citzenry democratic?

The set of decrees stops short of removing term limits for Mr. Chávez, which was one of the most polarizing measures in the package voters rejected in December. But more than a dozen of the laws are strikingly similar to items included in the failed constitutional overhaul, angering the president’s critics.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/06/world/americas/06venez.html?_r=2&ref=world&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[bemildred]

87. This is rule by decree:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmona_Decree

[rinsd]

88. I'll take that as agreement that rule by decree is not democratic.

But that its somehow ok (pathetically) when Chavez does it.

[Judi Lynn]

89. It also seems to be O.K. when US puppets rule by decree, and it seems it was fine

when Hugo Chavez did it EARLIER, and no one said one word about it in our media (apparently they hadn't discovered it was a propaganda opportunity) and they have never felt inclined to yammer about it when PREVIOUS VENEZUELAN PRESIDENTS USED IT.

On edit, in fact they didn't even feel ambitious enough to howl a year ago when Peruvian President Alan Garcia asked for, and got it.

[bemildred]

90. The point is that "Rule by decree" is not the same thing as making law by decree.

Especially where the right to make administrative law is granted by a legitimate legislature. The former is dictatorship, the latter is normal in states that are considered democratic.

[rinsd]

91. So using law by decree to circumvent a democratic vote by the citizenry is democratic...

Ok then.

[bemildred]

94. No, it's autocratic, authoritarian, especially is there is no way to appeal.

But it is done but states that are considered democratic, all the time. An executive officer ALWAYS has certain powers held independent of the legislature, the range of those powers varies widely. The legislature cannot and should not be minutely running the affairs of everyone, that is WHY you have executive officers. The FUNDAMENTAL issue is accountability, is there means of timely redress in the legal system and through elections? There is nothing wrong with an executive officer excercising his powers as granted by the legislature, where legal and electoral redress is available, under a legitimate (adopted by vote of the electorate) constitution.

The main point about Chavez, in my view, is that he has repeatedly submitted his rule to the electorate, he has even LOST, and there is no reason to think he ever intends to proceed otherwise. And that IS democratic.

[eridani]

95. And it's OK when Gacria and Uribe do it?

I suppose it was OK with you when Clinton issued an executive order to restore funding to International Planned Parenthood?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

5. "Didn't consult major business groups"? Oh, the humanity!

Obviously he's a tyrant, because in a democracy we put the interests of major business groups first. :sarcasm:

Now that I've read the article, here's my comment. He seems to be doing is an end-run around the rich business interests who have undertaken a "capital strike," i.e. purposely cutting back on economic activity in order to cause trouble that they can blame on Chavez.

Hey, it worked with Salvador Allende in Chile, thanks to the CIA, so why not here? :sarcasm:

[Texano78704]

120. True enough

But they didn't count on Chávez having tons of oil revenue to spend. Venezuela is reaping billions in oil profits, even more so after it renegotiated oil contract profits.

[Selatius]

9. Is this the same business community that failed to "consult" with Chavez when trying to kill him???

The current environment in Venezuela is not solely the fault of Chavez or his supporters. It took two to tango, and they deserve just as much blame for polarizing that country to the extent it currently is. If they're willing to answer up to that instead of playing the role of victim, then things might de-escalate, but until then, don't expect much to change.

[struggle4progress]

17. Venezuela makes only minor change to bank law (Reuters)

CARACAS, Aug 5 (Reuters) - Venezuela has made only a minor reform to its banking law, in contrast to Wall Street expectations of major financial regulatory changes as part of a package of 26 laws decreed by leftist President Hugo Chavez.

Analysts had expected the socialist leader, who last week announced the nationalization of a local unit of Spain's Grupo Santander (SAN.MC: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), would use the legislation to boost state control over banks.

But the law, distributed on Tuesday, included only a single change regarding how Venezuela's state-run bank deposit guarantee corporation can transfer assets to other state agencies ...

Chavez at the end of July passed a package of laws, through special powers allowing him to legislate by decree, that increase state involvement in economic activities ranging from food and agriculture to railroads.

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssFinancialServicesAndRealEstateNews/idUSN0531146320080805

We should, of course, welcome specific details, rather than vague claims about 'socialism

[Judi Lynn]

22. Thanks for the illuminating article from Reuters, of all sources! Very interesting.

Someone slipped and wrote one a day ago or so which also shedded more light than normal on the subject. Very refreshing, isn't it?

[struggle4progress]

27. The international banking community needed an accurate report, I should guess

[Texano78704]

121. What?

Isn't is so much easier to shout "Marxist" and leave it at at that. :sarcasm:

[Judi Lynn]

24. Quite the spin on that AP article as per usual. Who wouldn't immediate stampede over to ask question

questions of the same organization which led the coup against Hugo Chavez, anyway? God knows THEY'RE objective!

From last Friday, a look at what's contained in this terrifying cluster of new laws:

Venezuela Chavez OKs 26 Laws Using Special Presidential Powers
(08-01-081127ET)

CARACAS -(Dow Jones)- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez issued more than two dozen laws by decree, including a much
anticipated reform to the banking sector law.

The president approved 26 laws Thursday, the day when his special presidential powers expired, exactly a year and a half
since Congress first gave Chavez the authority to issue laws without consultation, according to a copy of the official gazette.

Chavez's approvals include a number of changes to already existing legal frameworks, such as a reform of the law regulating
state-owned banks and a reform for Venezuela's entire financial sector.

The group of new laws also include rules for several state-owned banks, housing programs, the food industry and tourism.

The full text of each law was not immediately available and is expected to appear in an extraordinary official gazette issue
later Friday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3419665

[Rage for Order]

26. Some of the laws referenced in the OP

Under one of the new laws, food retailers or distributors caught skirting government-imposed price controls or hoarding products will be punished with up to six years in prison.

Business owners who refuse to produce, import, transport or sell "items of basic necessity" can face up to 10 years in jail.

The decree allows the government to "restrict or prohibit the import, export, distribution, exchange or sale" of certain foods or agricultural products and "take over distribution activities when considered necessary."

Critics also raised concerns about a decree that creates a new National Bolivarian Militia — a branch of the military consisting of civilian volunteers who will help neighborhood-based "communal councils" establish "defense committees."

Former defense minister Fernando Ochoa warned that neighborhood defense groups could closely resemble Cuba's Committees for the Defense of the Revolution, which encourage citizens to watch for "counterrevolutionary" activities.

[Judi Lynn]

28. That would only alarm whore/hogs who have been bilking the masses.

As for the neighborhood groups protecting neighborhoods, what right do you have, sprawled on your Barcolounger, to instruct a country which has been penetrated time after time by Colombian paramilitaries who've been brought over to kill Venezuelans?

It's not your call.

The Venezuelan elite imports soldiers
by Marta Harnecker
May 23, 2004

~snip~
Since 'the conspiracies against Venezuela do not end with the capture of mercenaries in Caracas,' there must be many other infiltrators in other areas of the country; since this is not an isolated action, but one whose efforts to stop the process continue, one can reach but only one conclusion: it is necessary to prepare oneself for self-defense. This is why the President considered it opportune to take advantage of the occasion and to announce three strategic lines for defending the country. The most radical proposal was a call for the population to massively participate in the defense of the nation.

A week earlier, on the 9th of May, on the outskirts of Caracas, a paramilitary force was discovered, dressed in field uniforms. Later, more were found, raising the total to 130, leaving open the possibility that there are still more in the country. The three Colombian paramilitary leaders of the group are members of the Autonomous Self-Defense Forces (AUC) in Northern Santander state in Colombia.

Some of the captured Colombian fighters have a long history as members of paramilitary forces. Others are reservists of the Colombian army and yet others were specifically recruited for the task in Venezuela and were surely tricked. Among these there are several who are minors.

A colonel of the Venezuelan air force was also detained, as well as seven officers of the National Guard. Among those implicated in the plot is a group of civilians headed by the Cuban Roberto Alonso, creator of the 'guarimbas,'<1> and Gustavo Quintero Machado, a Venezuelan, both who are currently wanted by the Venezuelan justice system.

What the real objectives were is now being discussed. One of them could have been to steal weapons so as to then attack the Miraflores presidential palace and President Chavez himself.

The government denounced the existence of an international plot in which the governments of the United States and of Colombian would be involved. U.S. Ambassador Shapiro denied that his country had any participation in the incident. And the Colombian president, for his part, solidarized himself with the Venezuelan government, affirming that he supports its actions against the members of the irregular Colombian military group, which then caused Chavez to publicly announce that he was convinced that President Alvaro Uribe did not have anything to do with the plot, even though he insisted on leveling charges against a Colombian general by the name of Carreño.

Even though the oppositional media conducted a big campaign to minimize the issue, trying to accuse the government of having organized a montage, so as to have a pretext for taking forceful measures that would impede a confrontation at the voting booth, every day more evidence surfaces that confirm the official version.

The Colombian attorney general's office has evidence that proves that paramilitary fighters were recruited and then transported to Venezuela and that extreme right-wing groups infiltrated intelligence services in the border town of Cúcuta. The proof was shown on the news program 'The Independent Network.' The program broadcast some intercepted recordings of paramilitary soldiers in Cúcuta, in which the operations they carried out in Venezuelan territory are reviewed.
(snip)

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=5579

By the way, the recently removed head of Uribe's national security department has ADMITTED recently he knew of this. It was discussed fully here, over and over.



Colombian paramilitaries captured at a ranch owned by Cuban right-wing “exile” Roberto Alonso

January 25, 2005

The Granda Kidnapping Explodes
The US / Colombia Plot Against Venezuela
By JAMES PETRAS

A major diplomatic and political conflict has exploded between Colombia and Venezuela after the revelation of a Colombian government covert operation in Venezuela, involving the recruitment of Venezuelan military and security officers in the kidnapping of a Colombian leftist leader. Following an investigation by the Venezuelan Ministry of Interior and reports and testimony from journalists and other knowledgeable political observers it was determined that the highest echelons of the Colombian government, including President Uribe, planned and executed this onslaught on Venezuelan sovereignty.

Once direct Colombian involvement was established, the Venezuelan government demanded a public apology from the Colombian government while seeking a diplomatic solution by blaming Colombian Presidential advisers. The Colombian regime took the offensive, launching an aggressive defense of its involvement in the violation of Venezuelan sovereignty and, beyond that, seeking to establish in advance, under the rationale of "national security" the legitimacy of future acts of aggression. As a result President Chavez has recalled the Venezuelan Ambassador from Bogota, suspended all state-to-state commercial and political agreements pending an official state apology. In response the US Government gave unconditional support to Colombian violation of Venezuelan sovereignty and urged the Uribe regime to push the conflict further. What began as a diplomatic conflict over a specific incident has turned into a major, defining crises in US and Latin American political relations with potentially explosive military, economic and political consequences for the entire region.

In justifying the kidnapping of Rodrigo Granda, the Colombian leftist leader, the Uribe regime has promulgated a new foreign policy doctrine which echoes that of the Bush Administration: the right of unilateral intervention in any country in which the Colombian government perceives or claims is harboring or providing refuge to political adversaries (which the regime labels as "terrorists") which might threaten the security of the state. The Uribe doctrine of unilateral intervention echoes the preventive war speech, enunciated in late 2001 by President Bush. Clearly Uribe's action and pronouncement is profoundly influenced by the dominance that Washington exercises over the Uribe regime's policies through its extended $3 billion dollar military aid program and deep penetration of the entire political-defense apparatus.

Uribe's offensive military doctrine involves several major policy propositions:

1.) The right to violate any country's sovereignty, including the use of force and violence, directly or in cooperation with local mercenaries.

2.) The right to recruit and subvert military and security officials to serve the interests of the Colombian state.

3.) The right to allocate funds to bounty hunters or "third parties" to engage in illegal violent acts within a target country.

4.) The assertion of the supremacy of Colombian laws, decrees and policies over and against the sovereign laws of the intervened country
(snip)

http://www.counterpunch.org/petras01252005.html

More captured Colombian paramilitaries

Published on Monday, May 17,
by the Agence France Presse
Thousands Protest Colombian Paramilitary Presence in Venezuela
Chavez to Set up 'People's Militia'

President Hugo Chavez announced his government would establish "people's militias" to counter what he called foreign interference after an alleged coup plot by Colombian paramilitaries Caracas claims was financed by Washington.

Chavez also said he would boost the strength of Venezuela's armed forces as part of a new "anti-imperialist" phase for his government.

"Each and every Venezuelan man and woman must consider themselves a soldier," said Chavez.

"Let the organization of a popular and military orientation begin from today."

The president's announcement came a week after authorities arrested 88 people described as Colombian paramilitaries holed up on property belonging to a key opposition figure.
(snip/...)

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0517-04.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

12.30pm update

Colombian paramilitaries arrested in Venezuela

Jeremy Lennard and agencies
Monday May 10, 2004

Venezuelan police have arrested more than 70 Colombian paramilitary fighters who were allegedly plotting to strike against the government in Caracas, according to the country's president, Hugo Chávez.
Opposition leaders, however, were quick to dismiss the president's claim, calling the raids on a farm less than 10 miles from the capital a ruse to divert attention from their efforts to oust Mr Chávez in a recall vote.

During his weekly radio and TV broadcast, Hello Mr President, Mr Chávez said that 53 paramilitary fighters were arrested at the farm early on Sunday and another 24 were picked up after fleeing into the countryside.
The country's security forces were uncovering additional clues and searching for more suspects, he said, adding that the arrests were proof of a conspiracy against his government involving Cuban and Venezuelan exiles in Florida and neighbouring Colombia.
(snip/...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/venezuela/story/0,,1213445,00.html



temporary quarters where some Colombian mercenaries were hiding out near Caracas

More captured Colombian paramilitaries

Three Venezuelan Officers and 27 Colombians Sentenced for Assassination Plot
A Venezuelan military court sentenced three Venezuelan military officers and 27 Colombians to two to nine years of prison for plotting an assault on Venezuela’s presidential palace and the assassination of President Hugo Chavez.Another 73 Colombians and 3 Venezuelan officers, who had also been suspected of participating in the plot, were freed after spending 17 months in prison.

118 Colombians were captured in May 2004 on a ranch just outside of Caracas, wearing Venezuelan military fatigues. Many of them appeared to be Colombian paramilitary fighters who had been recruited for a mission in Venezuela to attack the Chavez government and to kill the president. Six Venezuelan officers were also arrested in the course of the investigation.
Some of the Colombians were peasants who had been lured to come to Venezuela with the promise of jobs. Upon arriving, though, they were forced to engage in paramilitary training exercises and were forbidden to leave the ranch. 18 of the Colombians were released immediately after the capture and returned to Colombia because they were minors between 15 and 17 years. The ranch belongs to Roberto Alonso, a prominent Cuban-Venezuelan opposition activist. The highest level officer to be sentenced was General Ovidio Poggioli, who had been charged with military rebellion and was sentenced to 2 years and ten months of prison. The other two Venezuelan officers are Colonel Jesús Farias Rodríguez and Captain Rafael Farias Villasmil, who were each sentenced to nine years of prison. The 27 Colombians were each sentenced to six years prison.
When the group of Colombians were first arrested, many opposition leaders argued that the government had staged the arrests, in order to make the opposition look bad. They pointed out that no weapons were found with the paramilitary fighters and that the whole operation looked far too amateurish to have any chance of success. Also, it was argued that it is practically impossible to transport 120 Colombian paramilitary fighters undetected all the way from Colombia to Caracas, considering that there are numerous military control points along the way.
(snip)

http://www.voltairenet.org/article130297.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The appearance of these paramilitaries in Venezuela has upset the people enough that they've had huge demonstrations about it, marching in the streets. Looks as if they forgot to check with you.

[Rage for Order]

30. You're being snarky with the wrong person

I simply copied and pasted from the article linked in the OP. Take it up with the Associated Press :eyes:

[Judi Lynn]

31. Who wouldn't have noticed you were using the article? You said you were, as in "OP." n/t

[Rage for Order]

98. The I have to wonder...

What exactly was the point of your screed against me, with your utterances of:

"what right do you have, sprawled on your Barcolounger, to instruct a country which has been penetrated time after time by Colombian paramilitaries who've been brought over to kill Venezuelans?"

and

"The appearance of these paramilitaries in Venezuela has upset the people enough that they've had huge demonstrations about it, marching in the streets. Looks as if they forgot to check with you."

Considering I neither defended nor condemned the decrees, but rather copied and pasted from the article linked in the OP, what were you attempting to accomplish with your snarkiness towards me in your post since you obviously noticed they weren't my words?

[Zorro]

42. So you endorse the creation of Venezuelan paramilitary organizations

I mean, "neighborhood-based defense committees."

Interesting.

[Bacchus39]

40. New Decrees From Chávez Mirror Spurned Measures

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/06/world/americas/06venez.html?_r=1&ref=world&oref=slogin

CARACAS, Venezuela — President Hugo Chávez is using his decree powers to enact a set of socialist-inspired measures that seem based on a package of constitutional changes that voters rejected last year. His actions open a new stage of confrontation between his government and the political opposition.

The government quietly revealed last week that the president had approved 26 new laws on Thursday, when the 18-month decree powers bestowed on him by Congress were set to expire, but officials withheld offering the full text of the new laws until this week.

Some of the laws significantly increase Mr. Chávez’s power. For instance, one law allows him to name regional political leaders who would have separate budgets, which could help him offset possible victories by opposition candidates in state and municipal elections scheduled for November.

(In a further blow to the opposition, the Supreme Court upheld a measure on Tuesday that prohibits more than 250 people from running for office while the comptroller general investigates claims of corruption against them. The measure will prevent Leopoldo López, one of the country’s most popular politicians, from running for mayor of Caracas.)

Mr. Chávez is also trying to assert greater control over the armed forces through a decree creating militias, a new military branch he has pushed for.

Reigniting private property concerns, another law allows his government to “occupy and temporarily operate” private companies not in compliance with bookkeeping rules.

The set of decrees stops short of removing term limits for Mr. Chávez, which was one of the most polarizing measures in the package voters rejected in December. But more than a dozen of the laws are strikingly similar to items included in the failed constitutional overhaul, angering the president’s critics.

“We cannot be fooled by a government that is pushing through a contraband reform,” said Julio Borges, national coordinator of Justice First, an opposition party.

After the defeat of the proposals that would have formally transformed Venezuela into a socialist state, Mr. Chávez vowed to continue pressing for many of the measures. Over the weekend, he said anyone upset about the decrees could go to the Supreme Court.

The court is dominated by his followers, as is every other public institution of importance in the country, including Congress, the entire federal bureaucracy and Petróleos de Venezuela, the national oil company. Justices from the Supreme Court have already approved in private all of the decrees issued by Mr. Chávez.

“When the government acts, as it has now, without respecting the Constitution, and the word of the president is the law, then an act of tyranny is being committed,” said Teodoro Petkoff, the publisher of Tal Cual, a small opposition newspaper.

The set of decrees comes just two months after Mr. Chávez used his decree powers to quietly approve an overhaul of intelligence agencies, prompting an outcry that he was trying to coerce citizens to inform on one another. Faced with the criticism, he acknowledged flaws in the law and withdrew it.

Since then, Mr. Chávez’s public pronouncements have grown increasingly erratic.

In relation to foreign policy he seemed to have recently mellowed, mending ties with leaders in Colombia and Spain, but pressed ahead here with a wave of takeovers of private companies, announcing the nationalization last week of a large Spanish-owned bank.

The bank takeover, coming after the nationalization this year of large steel and dairy companies and nationalizations last year of oil, telephone and electricity companies, suggests Mr. Chávez is far from finished in attempts to assert greater control over the economy.

Mr. Chávez reinforces this project with the latest decrees, introducing prison sentences of 10 years for business owners who refuse to produce or sell “items of basic necessity.” The vaguely written decree allows Mr. Chávez himself to determine which goods are of basic necessity or crucial to national security.

Pablo Baraybar, president of Cavidea, a food industry group, said the decrees had taken its members by surprise after Mr. Chávez appeared conciliatory in June, inviting business leaders to a speech here in which he asked them to increase investments in the country.

“We were not consulted about this at any time,” Mr. Baraybar said in comments broadcast on radio, referring to the decrees.

Some of the decrees are relatively minor, like one smoothing the process in which the government transfers some banking assets among state agencies; others formalize socialist-inspired policies on the margins of the formal economy, like a measure declaring barter a legitimate system of payment.

Still, faced with growing criticism of the decrees, Vice President Ramón Carrizales called on citizens to “refrain from being influenced by the putschist attitudes of opposition groups” and said the decrees had “great humanist meaning.”

While infighting plagues both the opposition and Mr. Chávez’s own socialist coalition, the coming regional elections have the potential to erode the president’s power base. Right now, his supporters control all but a handful of Venezuela’s states and municipalities.

“The president is publishing these laws while the opposition is going through the complicated process of unity,” said Yon Goicoechea, a student leader who organized protests against the constitutional reform package last year. “The only way to combat Chávez is by winning spaces of power, without losing hope.”

[Peace Patriot]

34. It's the Associated Pukes. So we're only getting half the story...

...or less. I don't trust ANYTHING they say about Chavez, Venezuela or the South American left.

Always look for the "ap" hidden in the url. That means "fascist/corporate" agenda. The best procedure is to disbelieve the entire story, upfront, and, with your skepticism hat firmly on your head, go to other sources for what the Associated Pukes are not telling you.

Try:
www.venezuelanalysis.com (They publish the other side of most Chavez stories--and then you can decide for yourself what you think about it.)
www.BoRev.net (They often cover Chavez stories; they are informative and hilarious; and they often vet the corporate 'news' monopoly versions of things--analyze the 'news' presentation.)

Do not consider AP to be 'news.' Look at it as opinion. AP says such and such happened in Venezuela. Did it? That's the first thing you must ask. Second, what are they NOT telling you? Third: spot the disinformation. AP has an agenda straight from the Bush State Department, which I sometimes think is actually writing AP stories about Chavez. So one way to get the picture here is to imagine that George Bush, Dick Cheney or Donald Rumsfeld was speaking the story to you. Would you believe him? That is how completely unreliable AP has become on this subject.

I have been following the Chavez news for many years now. And I can tell you that virtually EVERY 'news' story from AP is negative, is aimed at portraying Chavez as a "tyrant," and has been proven wrong, to my satisfaction, after tirelessly hunting down the facts.

This includes Chavez's decree powers (granted to previous presidents; common practice in South America), de-licensing of RCTV (which actively supported a violent military coup d'etat; plenty of cause; de-licensing occurs routinely in other countries; free speech is alive and well in Venezuela, and actually improved by this action); kicking Exxon Mobile the fuck out of Venezuela (well-deserved); nationalizations (for instance, the oil was nationalized before Chavez--he merely negotiated a fairer deal for Venezuela); the bank that Venezuela just bought--was not confiscated, was up for sale and furthermore had been nationalized before Chavez); Chavez is harming Venezuela's economy (nearly 10% growth rate over the last five years, with the most growth in the private sector, not including oil). Almost any negative 'news' story about Chavez--especially those aimed at painting him as a "dictator"--turns out this way--unsupported by the facts.

And I am greatly, greatly worried that this non-stop stream of disinformation and propaganda is prep for an oil war in South America, which I think may happen sooner rather than later, and will likely take the form of U.S. military support (from the newly reconstituted 4th Fleet in the Caribbean) for fascist secessionists in the oil rich Venezuela province of Zulia (on the Caribben, adjacent to Colombia). There are similar Bushite schemes for fomenting civil war, and breaking off the resource-rich provinces into fascist mini-states in control of the oil, in Bolivia (in progress) and in Ecuador (reported fascist meetings).

See:

"The Smart Way to Beat Tyrants Like Chávez," by Donald Rumsfeld, 12/1/07
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/30/AR2007113001800.html

Rumsfeld urges "swift action" by the U.S. in support of "friends and allies" in South America. The U.S. doesn't have any "friends and allies" in South America except for the fascist thugs running Colombia and the corrupt "free traders" in Peru--and fascist cells within democratic countries planning coups. So this is what I think he means--"swift action" in support of fascist secessionists when they make their move. The propaganda about Chavez being a "tyrant" (he is not) is designed to put us to sleep when this Bushite crap hits the fan. Most people will think, 'oh, it's just that Chavez--isn't he a dictator or something?'

Don't be asleep. Be alert. Know how much they are lying to us. And, although our government is deaf to the majority of the American people, and our own democracy is in tatters, be well informed, and CARE what happens.

[leftchick]

41. it is not helpful that our candidate repeats the puke mantra

that Chavez is an "Oil Tyrant". :eyes:

[Zorro]

43. I learn many things on these threads

For instance, I had always heard that the love of money was the root of all evil.

I now find out that it's not.

Donald Rumsfeld is the root of all evil.

[onehandle]

36. And the thug expands his President for Life status.

But the sheep in these parts say it's ok because he's a "Socialist."

"Some of the laws significantly increase Mr. Chávez’s power. For instance, one law allows him to name regional political leaders who would have separate budgets, which could help him offset possible victories by opposition candidates in state and municipal elections scheduled for November."

[robcon]

37. When Chavez rule by decree, it's "democratic"

When Chavez extra-constitutionally stuffs the Supreme Court of Venezuela with his lackeys, it's a part of "democracy."

He don't need no stinkin' legislature to make laws. He don't need no stinkin' constitution to keep him in check.

We have to keep up with the modern dictionary of the Chavez apologists.

[Snarkturian Clone]

39. Many, many DUers approve Bush-like behavior,

as long as it comes from a leftist source.

[Dreamer Tatum]

58. Those same DUers are allergic to the phrase 'I was wrong'

Which they most assuredly are about Chavez.

[IggyReed]

59. LOL!

You might notice in this thread that the people defending Chavez are posting facts, they provide background for the actions, they try to apply standards to Venezuela that we'd accept for ourself & our allies (like if CNN received money from a foreign government to aid them in installing a dictatorship that would follow the orders of that government they wouldn't bother saying it was a dictatorship to strip them of their license, as long as it was the US) while people criticizing Chavez basically post the propaganda we can get anywhere in this country, apply hypocrytical standards to Venezuela (and all countries like Venezuela, at least from the US government's perspective) and show no evidence that they know anything beyond what they've read in your garden variety US newspaper or TV program. Then, despite that, they claim that we are in denial, for nothing more I guess that caring about facts and not being hypocrites. Very American of you. You've been trained well.

[Dreamer Tatum]

60. Blahblah ChavezgoodUSAbad blahblah

I'VE been trained well? Any criticism of Chavez is discounted by your ilk as propaganda. Sounds like you've received some pretty good indoctrination yourself.

I guess the proof is in the pudding, though, and I still don't see people beating a path southward. Until that happens, Chavez Good / Chavez Bad is observationally equivalent to arguments about sports teams.

[IggyReed]

63. ...

No, criticizing Chavez or any politician is fine. In a democracy it is needed. Criticizing a person who the US has been targeting for removal (again, in ways you would never in a million years accept if it was done here against the US government by another government) because we want access to Venezuela's oil and using misleading, non-objective, hypocrytical and factually void justifications for backing the actions is another story.

People like you said the same thing about RCTV. No matter how clear the situation was explained, no matter how illogical it was to take the propaganda as easily as people like you did (again, what would you say if CNN or MSNBC did the same under the direction of another country trying to install a military dictatorship?), nothing swayed you from simply repeating what you were told. Not renewing a lisence for RCTV was a sign of dictatorship, no matter how hypocrytical and ridiculous the reasoning.

The term limits were another one. Le Monde & the right wing British papers said the whole "president for life" thing because Venezuela was voting on remmoving term limits. Many of the anti-Chavez folk used them as sources for their crap, and these papers were based in countries with no freeaking term limits! I mean, what the hell, what can you say to people who don't give a crap about simple logic and hypocracy? Who can't see through the hypocracy and to notice that the interests who control the papers are not the same as yours or the majority of Venezuelans?

[Judi Lynn]

65. Bush's puppet Peruvian President Alan Garcia also used these powers given him

by his own assembly, but we didn't hear one tiny peep from the freeps, not even a hint of a label hurled around over it:

Last Updated: Saturday, 28 April 2007, 06:31 GMT 07:31 UK

Peru leader gets emergency powers
By Dan Collyns
BBC News, Lima

Peru's parliament has granted emergency powers to President Alan Garcia in order to deal with drug trafficking and organised crime.
Congress overwhelmingly approved the move but around 20 Congressmen walked out of the session before the vote.

President Garcia has promised not to abuse the powers, which are valid for the next 60 days.

He will only have the power to rule by decree on nine specific types of crime, most of which relate to trafficking.

Drug violence rise

A prolonged strike in the centre of the country by coca farmers demanding the government cease its eradication of their crop may have prompted this vote.

Peru is the world's second biggest producer of cocaine and recent years have seen an increase in production and drug-related violence.

Peruvian congressmen strongly approved the measure which will allow President Garcia to rule on offences related to cocaine production, smuggling and organised crime without seeking their approval.

More:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6602551.stm

Like Garcia's "special emergency powers" those give Chavez also related to some specific areas to be addressed. Chavez has been given the use of decree in earlier times, and the period came and passed without comment from our own corporate media. Apparently they hadn't been encouraged yet to publicize it for propaganda purposes, yet. Prior to earlier use by Chavez, the power of decree was also used by previous Venezuelan Presidents. Not one mumbling peep there, either.

Speaking of Alan Garcia, he ALSO rejected renewal of a tv station. He rejected renewal of THREE Peruvian tv stations, as well as TWO radio stations all at one time, in April, 2007. Where was the scenery-chewing, curtain-shredding chorus from the right-wing THEN? Apparently THIS is not anything they care about, although the coup-participating, news fabricating RCTV, which lost a primary employee who quit in protest over their treasonous actions, was wildly sinned against, even though they remain in business daily, just like our own cable tv stations like CNN and Fox.

[Dreamer Tatum]

67. What the HELL are you blathering about?

Are you justifying his consolidation of power and control by claiming that the US doesn't like him?

Suppose we WERE after his oil, a supposition for which there is no actual evidence. How does that square with
him ruling by edict, and creating his own militia (ie, army)?

Tell you what. In January 2009, we will have a new president, and in the worst case, we will have yet another one
in January 2017. Do you think Venezuelans can say the same thing? Fuck what the papers say, and just answer the
question.

[IggyReed]

75. What I said was as clear as can be

I know that citing facts can be blathering to someone who doesn't need facts to make their mind up.

"Are you justifying his consolidation of power and control by claiming that the US doesn't like him?"

CLAIMING? The papers proving the US' involvement with the coup are available, read them before you blather on. The US involvement was extensive and is known to anyone who’s followed the events in Venezuela, which you obviously haven’t:

http://www.venezuelafoia.info/english.html

If you bothered to take the time to read up on the matter, while speaking with such bravado, you'd have a passing knowledge of what you're talking about.

"Suppose we WERE after his oil, a supposition for which there is no actual evidence."

You have got to be freaking kidding me. I have a book by L.S. Stavrianos that includes declassified US documents on Venezuela. I don’t have the book in front of me (if you want I can return to give you the referenced document, the book is at home), but a quote that stuck out was from declassified State Department file, from 1950 (our involvement in the country, and our reasons for being involved, go back decades). It said something to the effect that, "All policy towards Venezuela is determined by our access to its oil reserves". This was 1950, and this oil administration supposedly has NO interest in their oil, which some claim is as much if not more than the Saudis’. Yeah, we supported the coup because we cared about democracy

“Tell you what. In January 2009, we will have a new president, and in the worst case, we will have yet another one in January 2017. Do you think Venezuelans can say the same thing?”

How in the hell would either one of us know? You obviously have a crystal ball and have the answer, you KNOW they won’t and it justifies your opinions, which facts will not be able to sway. I on the other hand realize that Venezuela is a functioning democracy and if they CHOOSE to not have term limits that’s their right. I, personally, don’t think it would be a good idea but its their decision to make, not yours. If the people of Venezuela CHOOSE to get rid of term limits (which would make them like France, Australia and many other allies of ours, all of whom I’m sure you call dictatorships) that is their decision. If Chavez determines it FOR them, you’re right.

[Dreamer Tatum]

77. Your inconsistency disqualifies you

I'm full of propaganda, but you're not...why, just click on this link of yours! It's all laid out for me!

You win - your dedication to your disinformation is greater than mine.

[IggyReed]

79. Pure delusion

Declassified US government documents are now “propaganda” and “disinformation”. Like I said, you simply aren’t interested in facts or knowing what the hell you're talking about.

[Judi Lynn]

83. Why would you not be aware of American oil business in Venezuela?

You may want to recall FDR, a DEMOCRAT loathed by right-wingers had NO term limits and they weren't even in view until our own right-wing assholes determined no other Democrat would ever get the chance to serve multiple terms and do so many useful things, and be as productive and respected as was the Democratic President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

They never had anything remotely similar, they couldn't afford another, so they passed the legislation to make sure it could never happen again.

Many countries all over the world, with WHITE people (for drooling rightist lurkers who won't mind their own business) also don't use term limits.

Please get a sense of what you're discussing if you want any respect for your ravings.

[nels25]

66. Ain't that the truth

I am reminded (and I am old enough to remember) the cricket like silence about any of the myriad of crimes that the Soviets and Chinese under Mao committed.

Then like now this country is/was naturally assumed to be the basis of all evil and bad in the world, and the Soviet block nations and china were nations of virtue.

Now it is true that we have a certifiable lunk head for president the last 7 plus years, still that should in no way blind thinking people from recognizing misconduct and outright human rights violations conducted by countries that have a more left or so called socialist type of government.

A dictator is a dictator be he left or right.

One of the reasons we as a party have been mistrusted to defend our nation is because we have a long and rich history of giving obvious bad guys who are from the left the same treatment we would demand from a right leaning dictatorship.

Think about it for awhile, show me I am wrong?

Cite for me examples when major intelligentsia from the left ever slammed the Soviets?

When a major Democrat (not running for president because they had to knock the Soviets to some extent in order to get elected) who bashed left leaning dictators (besides Scoop Jackson)?

I will be waiting and I have a feeling it will be a long one.

[IggyReed]

72. Come on

To compare the Soviets or the Chinese to Venezuela is ridiculous. I'm sorry but there is no factual basis that the Chavez government is behind any suppression of the opposition, forget death camps and the like. If you want to be honest with yourself (and not draw comparisons to the past in which the only connection is that they, like Venezuela now, were leftist governments) Colombia is far closer to Stalinist Russia than Venezuela. The groups we've been supporting in Haiti are closer to Stalinist Russia than Venezuela. Our actions in Iraq (where we attempted to cancel the Iraqi elections, attempted to install puppets into government, forced economic policies on Iraq that the vast majority of the people there were opposed to & which have destroyed the country, instituting the “orders” in so undemocratic ways that the Iraqi Chamber of Commerce was outraged, who claims that Bremer’s “orders” at the CPA are binding to all future democratic governments, who’ve handled Iraq’s debt in opposition to international law, who’ve attempted to privatize Iraq’s oil even though almost 80% of the country is opposed, who’ve killed over a million Iraqis, caused millions of people to be displaced and who’ve dropped tons of DU all over Iraq) are closer to Stalinist Russia than Venezuela. If I say that though, I’m simple minded and have a “blame America first” attitude, right?

I find it hard to fathom how someone can compare a democratic government, with the rights afforded to the average citizen to take part in the actual functioning of the government far beyond we see in the US, where there has yet to be any REAL evidence of repression against the opposition (I challenge YOU to come up with the equivalent from the Chavez government with the right wing coup and attempt at installing a military dictatorship, replacing a democratically elected and widely supported government) and which basic services have been provided to the poorest sectors of the country with Stalinist Russia.

Again though, Chavez is a leftist, the governments you mentioned were leftist, so they’re the same. Pinochet & Suharto were capitalists, the US is capitalist, I guess they’re the same too. The world is very simple when you want it to be.

If you want leftists who criticized Russia you might want to actually look into the matter. You might know that Orwell was a leftist until he died and kind of wrote anti-Stalinist novels. The “God Who Failed” book was written by people whom still considered themselves leftists. The left in Spain fought against the Stalinists, and the Trotskyites, in the Spanish Civil War. The anarchists like Emma Goldman, Alexander Berkman and Kropotkin in the earlier part of the 20th century criticized the direction Russia was going in. There are countless other examples if you want them.

To say the Democrats didn’t attack the Soviets and the Chinese is laughable. Maybe you missed, for instance, LBJ’s reasoning for beginning the Vietnam War. Or Kennedy’s war against Cuba, and his justifications for doing so. His attacks against southern Vietnam, and the reasons given. These are just the most obvious.

The most ironic thing for me is that the most factually based, objective critiques of the Bolivarian Revolution come FROM the left. Go to Zmag. You’ll find pro-Chavez pieces, you’ll also find even handed critiques of the contradictions of the revolution, not fact less, wild, ideologically tinged attacks. You’ll find objective (not ideologically minded and biased) critiques of some of the economic problems, some of the failed attempts at getting people to participate more in decision making, etc. If you go to Current Affairs however, ANYTHING that is negative is a sign of evil. RCTV, dictatorship. FARC, the fake $300 million claim? Chavez, and not the US supporting the groups who human rights groups say commit over 80% of the violence in Colombia, is supporting terrorists. Any economic problem that they’re facing, he’s incompetent and the country is going to crash. Inflation? Not rising wages, the fact that inflation is raging all over the world and that the elites have intentionally cut back staples items to CAUSE hardship (which they announced openly) to try and cause hostility to Chavez, no. Venezuela is a basket case, yada, yada. The facts as usual are secondary.

[Judi Lynn]

73. So glad to see your informed posts. As you are aware, there are far too few people crowding

the common space who will take the time to learn the facts, get the background, do the homework.

Far easier for them to repeat and swap short blasts of disinformation than to actually sit, focus, and study.

Glad to see you're watching the larger picture, too!

Welcome to D.U. :hi:

[Flatulo]

129. Amazing, isn't it? nt

[IggyReed]

54. Explain this for me, the "president for life" thing

Howard, Bush's buddy, in Australia just got done with his FOURTH term. Is Austrialia, by your logic, a dictatorship? How about France or the UK? They have no term limits, are THEY dictatorships? Was the US a dictatorship as a result of FDR's terms? Japan & Canada have no term limtis, they're obviously dictatorships. How about Colombia? The president there didn't put the idea up for a public referendum, he just had his party (you know, the one where dozens of its members, including the narco president's cousin, are under investigation for connections to death squads and drug runners) change the constitution. People there didn't get to vote on it.

It's amazing, once again, how little the people who say this know the facts about the situation. Le Monde, based in a country in which there are no term limits, says he's a dictator for asking Venezuelans to vote on whether or not they want term limits, and the Chavez attackers just whistle.

[Mika]

125. Don't even go THERE! lol

Just try pointing out to the Canadian DUer Chavez haters that the Queen's Governor General (with the authority of the Queen of England, Elizabeth Windsor) shut down Canada's parliament to stop a coalition from forming against the conservative regime in power a couple of months ago.

Don't see them mewling the "dictator for life" BS over that - and who the F elected the Queen?

[Joanne98]

47. Good! He has to do something about RW Colombian drug-trafficking death squads.

The people of Venezuela deserves gun rights too!

[Dreamer Tatum]

57. Don't hold your breath for those

I wonder how long until Venezuelans get to decide how many pictures of Chavez they get to have in their homes: 10, or 15?

Their choice.

[twiceshy]

48. It's only a matter of time before the concert...

for the starving children of Caracas. See Zimbabwe for details.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

68. Didn't know they traveled in swarms

:eyes:

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IggyReed]

76. Back at ya

You always have tons of information present. I've learned a lot reading this blog from your posts.

[anonymous171]

70. Fuck the business groups but what's the story with the militias?

[Judi Lynn]

71. Colombian? The ones hired by the Venezuelan oligarchy?

They aren't popular with the majority of Venezuelans, not by a mile.

Published on Monday, May 17, 2004
by the Agence France Presse
Thousands Protest Colombian Paramilitary Presence in Venezuela
Chavez to Set up 'People's Militia'


President Hugo Chavez announced his government would establish "people's militias" to counter what he called foreign interference after an alleged coup plot by Colombian paramilitaries Caracas claims was financed by Washington.

Chavez also said he would boost the strength of Venezuela's armed forces as part of a new "anti-imperialist" phase for his government.

"Each and every Venezuelan man and woman must consider themselves a soldier," said Chavez.

"Let the organization of a popular and military orientation begin from today."



Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez addresses
supporters during a mass rally in Caracas on
Sunday, May 16, 2004. Chavez announced his
government would establish 'people's militias'
to counter what he called foreign interference
after an alleged coup plot by Colombian
paramilitaries Caracas claims was financed by
Washington Credit: Venpres

The president's announcement came a week after authorities arrested 88 people described as Colombian paramilitaries holed up on property belonging to a key opposition figure.

Earlier, thousands of Chavez supporters draped in national colors marched through the streets of Caracas to protest the alleged coup plot.

Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel claimed the United States and Colombians were involved in the conspiracy.

"This march is in response to the conspiracy mounted by the Colombian oligarchy and the North American empire, but we will defeat them," Rangel said.

Rangel said the number of paramilitaries and people arrested linked to the plot uncovered last week had now risen to 120, out of 130 believed to be implicated.

Of those detained, 102 are in prison, and nine are due to go Monday before a judge.

Eight active-duty Venezuelan military officers allegedly linked to the plot have also been arrested.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0517-04.htm

[Dreamer Tatum]

74. It's essentially his private army

Think Bush's Blackwater, although Bush is leaving office soon. Chavez isn't.

[ohio2007]

78. Hugo thinks that is plenty of time to invade Iran and kick his ass

Thats not at all the direction of where an attack is already happening under the msm radar;
http://www.dawn.com/2008/08/06/top2.htm

besides,
Barak wants the US to stop buying oil from Hugo in 10 years.

He can find other oil buyers to support his new squadron of 24 mig 29's


http://en.rian.ru/world/20080804/115619889.html

[IggyReed]

80. More US exceptionalism...

The US spends more than the rest of the world combined on weapons, they spend over a trillion directly and indirectly, they militarize countless countries (which they’re currently doing to Mexico, but Mexico is an ally, so getting billions in weapons and military training isn’t worth mentioning) but Venezuela bought some guns. Makes perfect sense.

[IggyReed]

82. This is what I'm talking about

http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/17760

In fact, Plan Mexico is part of SPP's grand scheme to militarize the continent, let corporate predators exploit it, and keep people from three countries none the wiser. Most aid will go to Mexico's military and police forces with its major portion earmarked back to US defense contractors for equipment, training and maintenance. It's how these schemes always work.

The battle continues. Mexico's military may get involved.

The US State Department describes them as follows:

-- ...."impunity and corruption (in Mexico's security forces are) problems, particularly at the state and local levels. The following human rights problems were reported: unlawful killings; kidnappings; physical abuse; poor and overcrowded prison conditions; arbitrary arrests and detention; corruption, inefficiency, and lack of transparency in the judicial system; (coerced) confessions....permitted as evidence in trials; criminal intimidation of journalists leading to self-censorship; corruption at all levels of government; domestic violence against women (often with impunity); violence, including killings, against women; trafficking in persons; social and economic discrimination against indigenous people; and child labor."

A detailed SPP explanation can be found on the 2007 article link. It's titled The Militarization and Annexation of North America - http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6359

Plan Mexico is part of SPP. It will militarize and annex the continent.

[ohio2007]

84. better check your #'s

US weapons are too expensive for most of the worlds tinpots to afford.
Look at the Russian and Chinese markets and who they supply.
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080805/115750191.html
oh,
they are supplying freedom fighters to make their weapons dealers wealthy and do not believe in shedding their blood for oil

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7503428.stm

that makes perfect sense

[IggyReed]

86. Yep

No doubt they’re getting involved, as are the French, I just don’t want to hear about Chavez buying some guns if we spend as much resources and rely as we do economically on weapons and the military. If you aren’t willing to call countries who spend far more on the military and have far more active and violent foreign policies dictatorships then, again, apply the same standards to countries YOU don’t personally like. If not, don’t beat around the bush, just say you ideologically object to Chavez, you don’t care what Venezuelans themselves want and you oppose him as a result. Don’t come up with reasons that are hypocritical.

[ohio2007]

96. judging by your post count

Have you been banned recently or

are you using an alternate screen name ? you posts of dot orgs and old links look like a style of another poster on this thread. ;)
http://www.pr-inside.com/latest-decrees-by-venezuelan-president-hugo-r742090.htm
viva mugabe, the shadow of things to come for viva chavez


http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=b32Ll7cbIg4
jmo

what they say about absolute power and all

[IggyReed]

113. More amazingly brilliant comments from you, you're even more clever than you think you are

What nonsense are you talking about now? So let me see, in this thread we’ve had people who’ve defended the democratic and sovereign government of Venezuela linked to Stalin, Mao & now Mugabe. Now, even though I discovered this site a few months ago and have posted sparingly under this name I was another poster who was banned. I guess if you throw this much $hit against the wall some of it is bound to stick.

Most of us weren’t born when Mao and Stalin were around, so linking us to them makes perfect and logical sense. No one here, including myself, said a word about Mugabe, but I’m sure it makes sense in your head somewhere, you being the logical objective person you are.

I’m sure though you’re even handed. You worry about democracy in Venezuela and Colombia, Haiti, Argentina (especially when the right wing authoritarians were in charge), Guatemala, and other impoverished areas. I’m sure you point out how “free market” polices have failed the region miserably. Like when you post the economic problems that Venezuela is having you pointed to the effects of the “free market” polices previous to Chavez and make comparisons.

The defenders of Chavez are blind and biased, you are objectively pointing out problems and show equal concerns for countries as poor as Venezuela who are suffering, or have suffered, under right wing dictatorships and the “free market”.

[Judi Lynn]

85. You imagine Venezuela should be free to be overrun by the Colombian paramilitaries hired by the

Venezuelan opposition? Is that the way it goes?

VENEZUELANS DON'T THINK SO. They will resist efforts to overthrow their own government, and they probably should, after all.

His own private army? How do you support that claim?

Chavez isn't leaving because he was re-elected in December, 2006. _Bush, on the other hand, stole his office.

[Dreamer Tatum]

105. Judi, you have zero credibility with me when it comes to matters Venezuelan

I strongly suspect you are a paid operative. There does not exist a Chavez thread without you there, polishing trophies.

[killbotfactory]

92. There is nothing rich people fear more than poor people who can defend themselves.

"In such a force, cooperation among different parts of society would replace the traditional reliance on upper-class leadership, and a large, well-armed popular militia would act as a sort of insurance policy against government tyranny at home. At the end of an article on the Home Guard in Tribune, Orwell wrote: 'That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.'" -Michael Shelden, Orwell: The Authorized Biography

[Anarcho-Socialist]

109. a mixture of two things

One is traditional Marxist theory, the second is the fear of US-Columbian attack.

The former, is based upon the Marxist concept of working class militias to defend socialism against bourgeois counterrevolution from internal and external sources. Orthodox Marxists distrusted professional armies due to their perceived culture of militarism, and tendency towards conservative viewpoints.

The latter, is merely to strengthen the Venezuelan republic against Colombian and US-backed paramilitaries, and any other efforts by they to overthrow the government.

[Imajika]

97. Mugabe used to be a hero to many DUers..

Yep, Robert Mugabe. I've been here a long time, I remember.

You will see no apologies from those people. It was enough for them that Mugabe attacked Bush. Never mind that it was obvious after not long in power that Mugabe was a violent dictator that would bring ruins to Zimbabwe, his admirers went right on supporting him as long as Mugabe ranted against Bush and colonialism.

Now look at Zimbabwe. Look what Mugabe has done. Where did all his cheerleaders go? No doubt Mugabe righted some past wrongs, but at what price?

Chavez is taking Venezuela down the same violent path. Eventually his schtick will wear thin, he will attempt to cling to power long after his people tire of him - using more and more undemocratic methods to do so.

Chavez is a Castro wannabe. His command and control notions of how to run an economy are doomed. The only question is how much damage he does to his nation before being removed.

Just my opinion anyway.

[iconicgnom]

104. Chavez = Mugabe, you say. That's a flat out lie.

You say "his command and control notions of how to run an economy are doomed", and I say that he has enormous democratic support for asserting the common right of Venezuelan citizens to Venezuela's natural resources, for a start. He has enormous democratic support for his work to free Venezuela from the blackmailing control of the World Bank and the IMF, and for his support for bordering South American countries who're also electing gov'ts that seek freedom for the people, not bondage. He has support for negotiating trade deals with Cuba, yes, exchanging oil, and money, for medical doctors and expertise. And so on.

And your characterization of Venezuealan politics is a flat out lie.

[ronnie624]

107. I challenge you to produce evidence supporting your claim

that DUers regarded Mugabe as a "hero".

I believe you're lying.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

110. I disagree with some of that

I do recall there being the occasional Mugabe apologist, because I remember arguing against them. Though I don't remember them being significant in number.

However I don't see the similarity between Chavez and Mugabe. The historical and political nature of Venezuela's and Zimbabwe's respective histories vary considerably, as do the policies of each.

Mugabe's regime was originally based on a capitalist mixed economy, until he utilised post-colonial anger about the land issue to stay in power. Instead of the people getting land, it went to his cronies and the parasitic elite. Mugabe justified this in vague leftist language which did not mirror the real world.

Chavez' is turning the previous market capitalist economy of Venezuela towards a form of democratic socialism, and then further more to a Marxist-Leninist state on the Cuban model. There is an effective comparison to be made between Chavez and Fidel Castro here.

[Dave From Canada]

131. Well, your opinion is exactly right.

[ohio2007]

99. Venezuelans protest Chavez's new socialist push

CARACAS, Venezuela - Riot police used tear gas Wednesday to block hundreds of Venezuelans protesting the latest moves by President Hugo Chavez to concentrate his power. The demonstrators said a blacklist of opposition candidates and a series of socialist decrees are destroying what's left of their democracy


snip

Chavez opponents also are outraged by 26 laws the president just decreed, some of them mirroring the socialist measures voters rejected in a December referendum.

"We said in the referendum that we didn't want that, and now he's put it in the decrees," said protester Josefina Bravo, a 59-year-old who wore a sticker reading "No means no" on her baseball cap. "That's the problem we have: All the powers are concentrated in the president."

Chavez issued the decrees just before the expiration of special legislative powers that allowed him to make laws without National Assembly approval for the past 18 months.

snip




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080806/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_chavez_power

I know I know,
with time,
history will prove this el presidente made the tough decisions at the right time ;)

[IggyReed]

112. More crap

Yeah, these people have no class interest in keeping the status quo in place in Venezuela. Venezuela wasn’t an extremely poor, but resource rich, country before Chavez took over. There wasn’t mass poverty, lack of healthcare and education for the vast majority of the country and there wasn’t a minority of people who were well off and make up the current “opposition”.

This is an example of the “opposition” in Venezuela. I’m sure if Cuba gave a $500,000 “prize” to a student in the US to help spread communism and to work with groups who tried to install a communist dictatorship in the US in the past you’d think nothing of it. He looks like the average, poor, Venezuelan too if you notice:

http://www.handsoffvenezuela.org/who_pays_opposition_students_venezuela.htm

“It is not true that US imperialism does not help the Third World! One of its agencies, the Cato Institute based in Washington DC, just signed a cheque for $500,000 (yes: half a million bucks!) to a young Venezuelan. Yon Goicoechea has been awarded the "Milton Friedman Liberty Prize", for his merits in the promotion of "Individual
Liberty, Free Markets, and Peace".”

“Well, we have to admit that Mr Goicoechea is not exactly a poor boy from a Caracas slum. He is a law student at the expensive Andrés Bello Roman Catholic University in Caracas, whose fees are 5,820 Bolivares Fuertes (officially equivalent to $2,710) per year, a very high price in Venezuela.”

“Nevertheless, this badly needed financial aid was honestly earned by Mr Goicochea for the good job he did in the cause of the free market (i.e. capitalism) and democracy (i.e. conspiracy against the elected government of Hugo Chávez). The reason he is considered a hero by the Cato guys is that he is the leader of the "students' movement" that opposes the Bolivarian revolution in Venezuela.”

http://www.rethinkvenezuela.com/downloads/cedice.htm

“…it is clear that NED, Department of Defense (DOD), and other U.S. assistance programs provided training, institution building, and other support to individuals and organizations understood to be actively involved in the brief ouster of the Chávez government…”

--United States Department of State, Office of Inspector General, “A Review of U.S. Policy Toward Venezuela”

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/448

Some 2,000 pages of newly disclosed documents show that the little-known National Endowment for Democracy is financing a vast array of groups: campesinos, businessmen, former military officials, unions, lawyers, educators, even an organization leading a recall drive against Chávez. Some compare the agency, in certain of its activities, to the CIA of previous decades when the agency was regularly used to interfere in the affairs of Latin American countries.

…One organization, Sumate, which received a $53,400 grant in September, is organizing the recall referendum against Chávez, Golinger said. The head of another group, Leonardo Carvajal of the Asociación Civil Asamblea de Educación, was named education minister by “dictator for a day” Pedro Carmona, a leading businessman who briefly took over Venezuela during an April 2002 coup against Chávez, she said. A leader of a third group assisted by the National Endowment for Democracy and its subsidiary organizations, Leopoldo Martínez of the right-wing Primero Justicia party, was named finance minister by Carmona, she said.

“How can they say they are supporting democracy when they are funding groups that backed the coup?” asked Golinger, head of the pro-Chávez Venezuela Solidarity Committee in New York.

[Zorro]

101. How's that government-managed economy doing?

This is not a particularly good omen:

<snip>

Venezuela July Car Sales Down 51% Vs Year Ago

Sales of new cars in Venezuela dropped 50.6% in July against the same month a year ago as the country's automotive industry cites difficulties adjusting to policy changes seeking to boost domestic production.

The government imposed quotas on imports at the beginning of the year in a bid to make large car companies assemble their automobiles in Venezuela. Sales of imported cars in July fell 73%, according to figures released Wednesday by the Cavenez automobile chamber.

Sales of nationally manufactured cars, however, also dropped 3.5% as industry representatives blame bureaucratic hurdles and difficulties buying dollars at the official exchange rate from the government for faltering production. Venezuela pegs its currency to the dollar at rate of 2.15 bolivars. In order for companies to buy dollars at that price, they must apply and get approval from the Cadivi currency board.

Carmakers have been complaining that they are not being allocated enough dollars to import the components they need to carry out production in Venezuela...

<snip>

More at: http://news.morningstar.com/newsnet/printNews.aspx?article=/DJ/200808061105DOWJONESDJONLINE000580_univ.xml

[iconicgnom]

106. Give it time. It worked in Japan.

[robcon]

116. Maybe Chavez should take the Japanese, rather than the East German economic model, then

Private ownership, export-orientation, government regulation of the economy worked well in an ethnically monolithic country like Japan, with no naturalized citizens, a history of following their political leaders (sometimes off a cliff), and a recent (since WWII) history of democratic institutions.

Instead Chavez' model is nationalize major industries, restrict exports, suppress dissent and blame all the ills that are created by the government on outsiders/foreigners.

[IggyReed]

117. Have you read or heard about the book "MITI" by Chalmers Johnson?

Japan had a state directed economic development, far and away more than Chavez has in Venezuela, to this point at least. The big banks in Japan would get together with the government, the military, the corporations, and they'd plan every aspect of the economy. On top of that, most of the institutions in Japan were put together into giant, statist groupings, which shared planning, debt, profits, etc. This was the model that South Korea used in their state development as well. Ever read the critiques the West had towards Asia and its "crony capitalist" model, before the Asian Financial Crisis (which hit the countries that had things like capital controls far less than it did the more "free market" economies)? Its funny too, Japan had a state directed economic development that has consistently ran circles around the West. How many times in the 20th century did the West have to protect their domestic economies from Japanese competition? It’s one of the main causes of WWII.

It's amazing, again, how someone could claim that he's supressing dissent when he did nothing more to RCTV than make them go to cable for what they did. When the opposition to this day dominates the media and the people receiving funding from outside powers operate openly.

It's also interesting to watch people pretend that Venezuela's economic troubles, the poverty, the wealth disparity and the class conflict began with Chavez. Like the country wasn't wrecked by the time Chavez took over, with corruption and institutional poverty the norm.

Funny too how people pretend that the financial markets don't make democracy basically impossible around the world. How if a country does what is in the best interest of its citizens, and does as its citizens are asking, that investors don't punish that country, without exception. Nothing should be done about THAT, nothing should be done about financial inflation (which is never mentioned, only "goods" or "demand induced" inflation is mentioned).

[WriteDown]

119. Japan also...

brought the deflationary spiral from the theoretical realm to reality. Not a great feat.

[ohio2007]

122. Venezuela to Cut Oil Contracts as Prices Fall ( six month bump for a Rule by Decree review)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3766873&mesg_id=3766873

Chavez seizes Cargill Venezuela unit, warns other

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN0426337720090305

[EFerrari]

126. I'm glad you kicked this thread. It's a classic. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

127. It is an oldie but goodie, isn't it? They get so crabby when they're helpless, don't they?

They have the solution in their own hands: do their homework, research, engage in thought, like the rest of us. :woohoo: