The Humiliation WILL Be Televised - Part DUH!

[NanceGreggs]

Memo re: Meeting with O – Feb 25/10, HCR

Hey guys!

We’re going to be meeting with Obama again this week – so let’s not fuck it up again like last time, m’kay?

This meeting is intended for grown-ups. Please try acting like one, especially if you’re not. (Not namin' names here, but you know who you are!)

Here are a few handy tips:

DO NOT squirm in your seat if you are bored, don’t understand what everyone is talking about, or need to use the toilet.

DO NOT tell Obama that your last president promised that if it was a nice day, you could have the meeting outside.

DO NOT – puleeze! – write stuff on your hands. This includes “left” and “right”. If you wish to raise your hand to ask a question and are unsure which is which, quietly ask one of the other boys and girls to assist you.

BE SPECIFIC. Obama can rattle off complicated figures and stats from memory. Refrain from using terms like eleventy-seven thousand and brazillion when referring to deficit dollar amounts, or the number of people you think don’t really deserve healthcare coverage.

AVOID using terms like “poor insurance companies barely scraping by”, or, “a twenty million dollar bonus ain’t what it used to be, given today’s economy”.

DO NOT attempt to match wits with the President. He’s armed – you’re not.

DO NOT LIE. Refrain from making statements about doctors in Canada having to call a government official before administering eyedrops, or British citizens having to wait six and a half years, minimum, to get a doctor’s appointment. While such statements have been used to good effect in the past, thanks to the intertoobs most people are on to us. So don’t push it.

DO NOT refer to our current healthcare system as the "best in the world" - unless an unforeseen catastrophic event wipes out all other industrialized nations on February 24th - in which case we actually will be able to make that claim.

COME PREPARED. Statements about a matter as complex as healthcare reform infused with terms like “yadda-yadda, blahdey-blah, what-evah!” may play well in the sticks – but this is Capitol City! You’re dealing with the President here, not your Tweet buddies.

THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK. I know this is a tough one, but lack of experience in this regard is no excuse.


WE ARE GOING TO BE HUMILIATED – Again.

This is, for a myriad of reasons, a given.

However, the effects of being publicly embarrassed can be minimized:

DO NOT spend the twenty-four hours pre-meeting at a tanning salon. Even the most carefully-cultivated faux tan cannot hide a red-faced “duh” moment – please keep that in mind.

DO NOT encourage your supporters to show up with protest placards outside the meeting place. Signs that read “Guvermint Hands OFF my Medic-Ade” do not advance our agenda. The world already knows your loyal constituents are as stupid as you are – no need to advertise.*

(* This advice is not meant for those who plan to advance the “some people are too stupid to deserve life-prolonging medical treatment” argument. However, consideration of the impact on your next bid for re-election should be considered before adopting this position.)

Despite the overwhelming success of the use of scare tactics sound common sense in the past, suggesting duct-tape as a perfectly economic means of dealing with a ruptured appendix, or do-it-yourself plastic-sheeting oxygen tents, are NOT, in this instance, considered to be viable options when arguing why access to affordable professional healthcare is not really necessary.

PLEASE READ – this IS important:

There is NO SUCH THING as the “pubic option”.

Those who have used this as the basis for prepared texts decrying government intrusion into private genatalia, complete with Biblical references against same (albeit a sure crowd-pleaser in most circumstances) are asked to destroy all evidence thereof forthwith. You never know where these FOIA requests are going to end up – and it COULD be your computer.

In addition, all references to “the Christian thing to do” should be steadfastly avoided. We’ve got talking points like communism, socialism, government ‘takeover’ of private matters between doctor and patient on our side. They’ve got do unto others, Jesus healed the sick and afflicted on their side. Christ trumps everything we’ve got on that score – please conduct yourselves accordingly.

All of the above being said, go get ‘em, GOP!

Our damage control people are already on the case – and don’t forget that the MSM will give us ample opportunity to spin next week’s televised conflagration of what’s left of our Party into an unmitigated success!!!

[JeffR]

1. Pubic option or bust!

Uh... I mean... uh... well...

[OneGrassRoot]

2. LOL!

:rofl:

"DO NOT attempt to match wits with the President. He’s armed – you’re not."

:rofl:

Back to reading.....K&R!

:applause:

[daleanime]

3. No, no, no, please NanceGreggs....

don't sent them these tips! Yes I know that they need them, but the show will be so much more fun without the help:evilgrin:

[Robb]

4. Oh, Nance, I laughed out loud.

Very, very well done. :toast:

[Bobbie Jo]

5. *snort*

:dunce:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Edited to add: K&R :kick:

[midnight]

6. k&R

[PBS Poll-435]

7. Wow

:D

:yourock:

[Cha]

8. That's a given! Good work, Nance!

"Our damage control people are already on the case – and don’t forget that the MSM will give us ample opportunity to spin next week’s televised conflagration of what’s left of our Party into an unmitigated success!!!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

9. I know you want to help those poor Republicans, Nance...

But this is over the top!

Heaven help us if they figure out what you've said!

They might actually get it......:scared:



:rofl: :rofl:

[HappyCynic]

23. Don't worry...

I don't think they'll be able to figure it out. Nance wrote more than a sound bite, it isn't riddled with misspellings, and she used multi-syllabic words.

K & R!!

[NOLALady]

52. I doubt it!

Waaaaaaaaayyyyy over their heads!

[NYC_SKP]

10. Kick and Rec... nt

[Lil Missy]

11. Nice

[rasputin1952]

12. ...

"DO NOT attempt to match wits with the President. He’s armed – you’re not."

[madamesilverspurs]

13. Can't wait to see which one of them tries

to claim that "...the dog ate our health care plan!"

K & R, also gigglesnort

---

[FrenchieCat]

14. The sad truth, even as we laugh......

"the MSM will give us ample opportunity to spin next week’s televised conflagration of what’s left of our Party into an unmitigated success!!!"


Ain't that the truth! :(

[srf Rantz]

15. the sad thing is

the sad thing is, it doesn't matter if you humiliate them with facts, logic, reason or in any other way.

they will be intransigent. their moral world view and belief system demands it. in fact that is the core of their belief system.

gotta read the george lakoff piece here for why that is counter-productive.

http://blog.buzzflash.com/contributors/3014

its long and the first part is introduction, scroll down to the heading

Conservative Populism and Tea Partyers

the relevant paragraphs are here:

The conservatives are not fools. Because their highest value is protecting and extending the conservative moral system itself, giving Obama any victory at all would strengthen Obama and weaken the hold of their moral system. Of course they were going to vote against every proposal and delay and filibuster as often as possible. Protecting and extending their worldview demands it.

Obama has not understood this.

We saw this when Obama attended the Republican caucus. He kept pointing out that they voted against proposals that Republicans had made and that he had incorporated, acting as if this were a contradiction. But that was to be expected, since a particular proposal that strengthens Obama and hence weakens their moral view violates their highest moral principle.

Such conservative logic explains why conservatives in Congress first proposed a bipartisan committee to study the deficit, and then voted against it.

That is why I don’t expect much from the President’s summit with Republicans on February 25. Why should they do anything to strengthen Obama’s hand, when it would violate their highest moral principle, as well as weakening themselves electorally. If Obama thinks he can shame them in front of their voters, he is mistaken again. Conservative voters think the same way they do.

[NanceGreggs]

19. The fact is ...

... that shaming these GOPers publicly is never a waste of time.

There's a reason why the number of self-identified Republicans is on the decline.

To assume that all "conservative voters" are GOP-bots who can't think for themselves is a mistake - one that Obama is not making.

It's easy rhetoric to say that all Republican voters are unreachable - that they don't have the intellectual wherewithal to discern truth from blatant lies, talking points from honest discussion. I have "gone there" myself - for effect, and for laughs.

But the truth is that many voters are waking up - to the hypocrisy, the psuedo-Christianity, the non-facts trotted out to obscure the real facts.

The real GOP-bots are indeed unreachable. But they are - despite what the MSM would have us believe - a small percentage of the voting population.

Show me a woman whose child might die for lack of healthcare coverage - and I'll show you a woman who's listening to what Obama, and her (R) representative, each have to say on the matter.

It's THAT woman who counts - and watching her heretofore hero-on-the-right argue that her child's wellbeing doesn't matter in the face of insurance company profits is exactly the kind of thing that will win her over.

She IS reachable. And she has a husband, who has a cousin, who has a co-worker, who has a neighbor ...

The fact that conservative mouthpieces have the MSM microphone is one thing - the fact that a mother with a desperately ill child has a backyard fence over which to talk to her neighbor is, in the end, more powerful.

So whatever your intent may have been, please don't lecture me about how Obama's efforts, or anyone else's, are for naught.

[madamesilverspurs]

27. Case in point:

My mother, now 90, voted for the Democratic candidate for President. It was the first time in her life that she did not vote for the Republican ticket.

She asked me, just a couple of days ago, why people are being so horrible to Obama. "It's just awful!" she said. "He's a good man, and he's doing a very good job. I don't know these Republicans."


---

[NanceGreggs]

28. Case in point.

And that IS the point, in all cases.

:hi:

[rufus dog]

38. Case in point - part two

I have a friend who was a Reagan Republican. Couldn't vote for W, but still leans a bit right. Now he spends a bit of time with me listening to views, backed by facts, and has another friend who is hard core right. He finally told his other friend, "look we need to quit talking about politics, I understand fiscal policies, but haven't seen those from Republicans, and don't want to be part of the Stupid White Man party."

[srf Rantz]

53. wasn't lecturing anyone

just happened to read that article by Lakoff, just before yours and thought it had some good points.

yes there are reachable people. of course there are.

and of course not all "conservative voters" are of the "GOP-bot" ilk who can't think for themselves.

that was exactly Lakoff's point. there are many, many people who can and do hold both sets of moral world views (or more likely parts of each) simultaneously and by framing, and by controlling the mass media outlets so effectively to repeat that frame over and over and over, the RW has successfully made their view prominent among this group while pushing ours to the background.

but if we frame our arguments properly, if we explain what we are for, what we are trying to do, and how we are going to do it, in simple and clear terms, we stand a much greater chance of success than if we continue to make the type of "mistakes"* in messaging that Lakoff talks about. such as reinforcing the RW talking points by attempting to negate them.

*I put "mistakes" in quotes because I don't agree with lakoff that they are "mistakes." Not as effective as they could be, counterproductive in some cases surely. I also strongly disagree with his "real reason" and "false reason" breakdown. I understand the difference but I hardly think one is <i>real</i> and the other <i>false.</i> but that's another discussion.

btw, Nance you are one of my favorite posters here and I never fail to ready your posts. Your words and your passion never fail to inspire me to not give up and throw up my hands at the insane state of our current country and political culture.

that is why I keep looking for, and sharing ideas like this that just might give us the edge to change some minds. or at least get thru the noise.

I couldn't sleep a wink last night thinking about all this. and one thing, one glaringly huge fact came clear to me that Lakoff overlooks. or at least doesn't mention in that piece.

there are not just the 2 conflicting world views. there are 3 (at least). and we here at DU know and rail against that 3rd group all the time. this 3rd group is the common enemy of both the Liberal populists and the conservative populists and they are the ones who have pitted the latter against us as the threat to their world view. I'm referring of course to the corporatists, the oligarchy, the plutocracy whatever you want to call them. These are people whose "moral world view" is that there are no morals. People whose world view is "get what you can while the getting is good and screw everyone else" coupled with "more is never enough" which drives them to endlessly seek to acquire more and more, no matter how successful they are, and who see any attempt, any idea, any philosophy that seeks to rein in their quest to gain more as anathema to their world view with a passion and fervor that makes the "conservative" mindset and defensive fear described by Lakoff look mild in comparison.

By successfully creating the boogeyman of "Liberalism," of "Secular Humanism," etc. fanning the culture wars, etc. they have successfully ramped up the fear among the conservative populists and turned their anger at us for decades, to see us as their number one enemy. They, the "controllers", as I call them, the "authoritarian leaders" (if you are familiar with Bob Altemeyers work on The Authoritarians) are now ramping it up to higher levels of inciting violence. We see that with the Teabaggers and the rhetoric spewing forth from Beck, Bachmann, Palin, et al. The recent CPAC speeches are case in point. They are being told that we mean to annihilate them and that the government (spurred by the Liberals who run it--as ridiculous as that is) will soon be coming to round them up.

This is of course a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more acts of violence or threats or uncovered plots, or caches of weapons that are turned up by the law enforcement authorities as a result of their building fear of attack, the closer we get to a situation like Waco or Ruby Ridge, where the government will be forced to take preventive action. At this point we can expect all Hell to break loose. As all their fears in their minds will be finally justified as "real."

But there is a tiny sliver of hope. For the first time in a long time I've seen one area of real cognizance among the Tea Partiers, and the Republicans have been quick to swoop in on it, (completely contradicting themselves and their past policies in the process to our own consternation--how they do pull this off Lakoff addresses clearly in his article).

We need to do the same immediately and co-opt the message. Co-opt the populist rage. Co-opt the truth.

and that is this:

We share a common enemy.

and (you are right) that enemy is Big Money, the banksters, Wall Street, Corporations, Corruption, etc. etc.

from there we add positive reinforcing messages that we have fought this enemy for decades, have fought it successfully, and our belief system is to fight it for The American People, for The Middle Class, for People Like You.

we need to say it over and over and we need to say it louder.

avoid negating: don't say, "we are not the enemy" "the government is not the enemy"
"say we are your allies against this enemy." say "government corrupted by big money is the enemy" "government is our tool to defeat that enemy" "we, like you, want to take government back and put its power into the hands of the people"

ok, now I guess I am lecturing. sorry about that.

like I said I couldn't sleep a wink last night working this all out in my head. needed to get it out on paper.

how we pull this off I don't know. we don't have a 24 hour cable tv network, or 24 hr national clear channel radio networks, or the MSM covering our equivalent of a CPAC, which we don't even have.

what we do have is DU, we have the internet, and we have talking to our neighbors.

we need solidarity. we need to uncircle the firing squad. and we need to get to work.

*lecture over*

thank you and good night and good luck.

[NanceGreggs]

58. My apologies ...

I took your first reply to have a completely different intent than was obviously meant.

My bad :blush:

[srf Rantz]

63. NP

thanks for clearing that up.

if I meant to disparage anyone it was the thick skulls of the GOP bots that would not be penetrated, not your or Obama's efforts to do so.

and I'm actually glad you commented as it motivated me to work out my thoughts and get them down.

should sleep well tonight...hopefully...

[LiberalLovinLug]

61. Your one of the best Nance!

But srf Rantz has raised a great point (from a well thought out article).

Frankly I don't see the tide changing. Sure there are those women (or men) who have a family member in a health crisis because of lack of coverage who has "seen the light", in the idea of a public, universal option.

But they are not a majority. Not anywhere close. "Liberal" is STILL a dirty word on the MSM. The large super-churches who directly or indirectly admonish their flock to oppose anything "Liberal" is still a huge segment.

In that article by Lakoff talking about the GOP's ongoing agenda:

They realized that by the late 60’s many working people were disturbed by the anti-war demonstrations; so Nixon ran on anti-communism. They noticed that many working men were upset by radical feminists. So they pushed traditional family values. And they realized that, after the civil rights legislation, many working men, especially in the South, were threatened by blacks. So they ran Nixon on law and order. At the same time, they created the concept of “the liberal elite” — the tax and spend liberals, the liberal media, the Hollywood liberals, the limosine liberals, and so on. They created language for all these ideas and have been repeating it ever since.

Even though liberals have worked tirelessly for the material benefit of working people, the repetition of conservative populist frames over more than 40 years has had an effect. Conservative ideas have spread in the brains of conservative populists. The current Tea Party movement is an attempt to spread conservative populism further.

Have any of these tactics been dismantled? The Tea Party movement should have been ridiculed out of existence by now, but thanks to the loyal coverage in the MSM (compared to the huge anti-war rallies before the war) and even cheerleading (with FAUX), they are still as strong as when they first started.

So while I rather enjoy a good GOP public shaming as much as the next liberal, as you stated: the MSM will give us ample opportunity to spin next week’s televised conflagration of what’s left of our Party into an unmitigated success!!!

I think the truth of that statement burns through the sarcasm.
They have trained their flock so well with their "conservative populist frames" that there is no danger that a significant percentage of those sheep will actually open their minds to entertaining the idea that the Democrats have anything good to offer them. The reason is that they will not even give themselves a chance to listen to any leader who is a Socialist, Terrorist enabler, Homo loving, Librul Elite, Muslim, American hater like Obama.

[firedupdem]

20. morals?

What morals? The destruction done to this country by those rat bastards isn't moral in the least. Their racist tea bagger displays aren't moral either. The blind, dumb and stupid that follow them without thinking for themselves will continue to. However, there are still some in this country with a functioning brain and they see them for what they are.

[srf Rantz]

67. I agree

it took me about 4 reads thru Lakoffs article to get a grip around that.

for you and me and all of DU and thankfully a large chunk of the country, what they believe isn't moral.
not at all.

but Lakoff's point, and its a valid one, is that in their minds, they are.

in their minds they are the infallible righteous ones. and no one and nothing will convince them otherwise. not the true believers anyhow. and their prime directive is to hold onto that belief.

and in their minds we are the mortal and aggressive enemy of their "moral" world view.

add to that the current entrenched belief that we have declared war on them and are intent on destroying their world view/values.

despite any "reasonble" observation that the growing prevalence of our world view over the decades following the 60s was simply an organic process based on the validity and humanity of our view, and folks were drawn to it (to oversimplify), and not in any way the result of any declared "war" by "Liberals"--they see it that way.

and they believe it.
according to Lakoff's work it is engrained in the neurons in their brains permanently.
and most importantly they believe that it is a fight to the death against pure evil.
and any and all means are necessary to prevail.
and they are armed to the teeth.

but the good news is they are and remain in the 25% range of our population.

the good news is we have the tools to keep the roughly 50% "undecided" middle from being swayed by them.

and the other good news is that it seems, as others have pointed out in this exchange, that there are signs a good number of those in that "middle" are waking up on their own now that the Tea Party is going totally ape shit.

the bad news is we're about 30 years behind and have nowhere near the reach in media the bastards backing the propaganda juggernaut on that side have.

we are at a balance point. we have a sliver of hope.

let's not blow it.

[lib_wit_it]

16. Ha, very funny. Without MSM complicity the RW would be so dead and buried!

[FrenchieCat]

18. That's why it is soooo Fucked up that we are made to suffer,

because of the media. They were supposed to be on our side, or that was the original intent!
They are Traitors!

[NanceGreggs]

21. I'm not about to argue with you, Frenchie ...

... but the truth is (and I think you'll agree) the news media wasn't supposed to be on anybody's side.

Their job is supposed to be reporting daily events - without bias, prejudice, editorial comment, or snide ill-informed remarks.

The chips were supposed to fall where they may. But now the chips are pre-digested, brightly-packaged, chemically-flavoured and/or preserved, processsed chip-food-product that coincidentally falls on the side of the same sponsor you're about to hear a word from during your nightly newscast.

[Mira]

25. Beautifully encapsuled. Now I'm off to recommend this thread.

[FrenchieCat]

37. What I meant was they were supposed to be there to inform us....

which in essence is being on the side of the people.

[NanceGreggs]

39. Exactly.

:hi:

[TheEuclideanOne]

59. NanceGreggs, you rock!

You have such a way with words and a perspective that completely matches how I feel. The main difference between you and I is that you are about 10,000 times more eloquent than I am. And you are &%#@!# hilarious! I am embarrassed to say that I have not heard of you until this post, but I would love to read more of your contributions. What is your blog and/or website?

Also, with all of the political tension these days it is really great to laugh and I LOL'd several times in your piece. Thanks for that.

[lib_wit_it]

33. I cannot begin to express how disappointed, disgusted, enraged, and betrayed I feel as a result of

the failure of the so-called journalists to report the "facts" related to the "he said--she said" "news" that they report. The way they allow the bs and spin to just hang there, unchallenged. We need a true underground of lefties who can figure out guerrilla tactics for getting the truth out there. Some young, tech savvy, revos to turn this gigantic cloud of lies into a real weather report.

Or something like that. ; )

[NanceGreggs]

40. Oh, you're SO right ...

You have to wonder if colleges and universities are now offering degrees in So-Called Journalism.

"I have a Ph.D. in So-Called Journalism" - ask me anything! I won't have a coherent answer, but ask me anyway!"

[rhett o rick]

70. We cant have democracy without a free press. We dont have a free press, we dont have democracy. nt

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

17. You're my hero!!!! K&R!!!! n/t

[johnaries]

22. Keep your guvmint hands off my pubic option!

:evilgrin:

[Lifelong Protester]

24. Luckily I was not drinking my Ovaltine here at the 'puter,

Or I would have spewed it but good. Dang, you are a well of witty writing.

Give 'em hell, Nance!

[Mira]

26. My most happily read sentence:

DO NOT attempt to match wits with the President. He’s armed – you’re not.

Fuckin'fools, talking about being there as called to check the fuckin' size of the room......

THEY KNOW about the above sentence of yours.
It shrivels their "guts".

[madamesilverspurs]

30. Yeeeaaahhh, but I'm thinking

it's not their "guts" that are shriveling!!!


--
edited for ridiculous typo

[NanceGreggs]

32. Now there ya go ...

... weighing the hard, throbbing data against the sensually soft economic thrust of the pubic option yet again.

I think I need a :smoke: right there now.

[madamesilverspurs]

35. Dayyam, there ARE moments

when I wish I hadn't quit smoking. Have one for me!

I'll just sit here and wait to stop laughing so I can copy that response!!!

---

[NanceGreggs]

36. ...

:smoke: :smoke:

[FarLeftFist]

29. This should be in the Library of Congress.

[SeattleGirl]

31. Damnit, Nance, I want my pubic option!

:rofl:

[DesertFlower]

34. i love it. nt

[lamp_shade]

41. Bravo !!

[voteearlyvoteoften]

42. The cream in my coffee

Suh weet

[The Wizard]

43. Great OP and thread

Just a couple of thoughts to ponder:
Is it possible to domesticate what's left of the Republican Party or will they remain feral?
Anyone who thinks the Republican leadership wasn't raised by wolves hasn't been paying attention. Have Eric Cantor and Bat Boy ever been seen together?
Journalists have been compromised by the corporate honchos who sign the paychecks. By exercising compensatory power, the corporate elites have proven the golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.
Rupert Murdoch has sunk yellow journalism to depths Hearst never imagined. He is able to get away with his chicanery because the great dumbing down was a smashing success.
Glenn Beck's audience could be out smarted by rodents, his sponsors have abandoned him, and Pox News keeps him on despite losing money. Who benefits from keeping the loony propagandist on the air?
The two primary responses when futilely trying to engage Tea Baggers are a blank expression and hostile aggression.
The President is giving Republicans a platform (maybe a scaffold) and lots of rope. How they use it will be interesting to see.

[LittleGirl]

45. besides everything Nance made me snicker about

this one made me cry outloud!
"Is it possible to domesticate what's left of the Republican Party or will they remain feral?"

wow, that says it all.

[lunatica]

44. You forgot to add that answers to the questions are not being supplied

beforehand despite repeated demands. Sometimes life can be that unfair.

edited to add more snark...

[trayfoot]

46. Outstanding! LOLOL!

[FourScore]

47. HOW in the world did you get this internal GOP memo???

:rofl:

[freddie mertz]

48. "There is NO SUCH THING as the “pubic option”."

Well, that turned out be true.

There is no such thing as the public option in the president's "new" proposal.

What a surprise!

Not.

[janet118]

49. Lastly, forget the above tips . . . RUN!!! It's a trap!!!

:scared:

(Tip of hat to Jon Stewart)

[Highway61]

50. Excellent

Ya hit the ball outta the park, Nance...once again

[DevonRex]

51. Nance, this was most excellent! Now, we should all post this on Facebook.

I propose making this go viral!

[quiet.american]

54. Lol! Well done. nt

[SlingBlade]

55. Why deos the President shill Polices which makes it impossible

for Democrats to support him on ?

Answer that one and you get the gold ring

[RedCloud]

56. Free condoms to cover all our bodies as the rapture is coming!

Just drive him bonkers with crazy stuff. It worked for the tea baggers.

[JNelson6563]

57. haha Fun stuff!

And getting a laugh at the expense of the R's makes it all the more fun.

Julie

[hisownpetard]

60. Purr-fect!!!!

[kmac3]

62. K & R . . This made my day!

Absolute truth beautifully wrapped with humor.
:rofl:



NanceGreggs
:yourock:

[kjackson227]

64. Mark Sanford would beg to differ regarding the "pubic option".

[Richard Steele]

65. 100th rec!

[ELY08]

66. As always Nance

That was great!!!!

[butterfly77]

68. K&R!!!

:hi: :kick: :kick: :kick: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[rhett o rick]

69. The republicans in Congress have been told to just hold on until Jeb/Liz take control in 2012.

If i mention "shadow government" will I be banned to the conspiracy corner?