why can Obama express approval of the firing of ALL the teachers at a high school

[Enrique]

and not fire anyone over the oil spill?

All those teachers at Central Falls high school, which Obama never went to, he was ok with the decision to fire all the teachers.

President Obama: "So, if a school is struggling, we have to work with the principal and the teachers to find a solution. We’ve got to give them a chance to make meaningful improvements. But if a school continues to fail its students year after year after year, if it doesn’t show signs of improvement, then there’s got to be a sense of accountability. And that’s what happened in Rhode Island last week at a chronically troubled school, when just seven percent of eleventh graders passed state math tests. Seven percent. When a school board wasn’t able to deliver change by other means, they voted to lay off the faculty and the staff.”

How many people died at Central Falls High School? Eleven people died on Deepwater Horizon.

Yes, it's not easy to assign accountability, it's a complex thing, it's important to be fair and effective.

But it's the same with a failing school, it's not as simple as blaming the teachers, and that didn't keep Obama from being real quick with his rhetorical ax.

Teachers are real easy targets for a triangulating president. They're sitting ducks, actually.

Banksters and oil men have nothing to fear.

edit: changed title to "expressed approval". Of course Obama can't approve teachers being fired.

[polichick]

1. Don't worry, the excuses will be piling up soon. nt

[stevenleser]

22. I'm so going to miss your sarcastic anti-Obama comments that you post every chance you get now that

I am putting you on ignore. Or, not.

[glitch]

43. Lol! or, not. nt

[bahrbearian]

23. I enjoy your posts.

[Me.]

2. Or Get Rid Of DADT?

[krawhitham]

49. You know that takes congress right?

no way the rethugs will vote for it, they have said they will block everything Obama wants for the year because HCR passed

He does not have a magic wand he refuses to use

[asphalt.jungle]

3. is Central Falls high school private?

how can he "fire" someone at BP? it's not Nationalized Petroleum.

[Enrique]

4. how about firing everyone at MMS

everyone! They've been dysfunctional for ten years, I was just listening about it on the Rachel Maddow show. Fire them all, there's millions out there looking for work.

No, they're going to split the agency into two. Eleven people dead and they're going to rearrange the org chart. But at the school, they're not splitting anything up, they're canning everyone.

[polichick]

5. Glad Rachel covered it - I'm sure she did it justice. nt

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enrique]

9. your firing

not you're firing.

But more important, what sense does it make to say my post was stupid and not say what was stupid?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enrique]

15. you mean post #7?

you were right, and I changed my OP title. Thanks.

[rpannier]

24. He also can't fire teachers at a school... Public or Private

So the question is valid

[vaberella]

29. I don't think he actually fired them. Since the poster said "express approval". n/t

[Rosa Luxemburg]

6. Failing schools are the result of the school systems and the board

they need to clean out school boards and the useless people in offices in the state and local school system. Those people have a lot of power and are useless. Teachers are blamed for poor preformance yet it is those in the school system offices who provide a crappy curriculum and support. They dictate what we teach.

[sandnsea]

7. Huh? He commented on why teachers were fired

He didn't personally approve the firing. He can't fire a single teacher in the country and he can't fire anybody at BP.

[madfloridian]

17. Not true. He approved of the firings. Link

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/01/AR2010030103560.html

"President Obama voiced support Monday for the mass firings of educators at a failing Rhode Island school, drawing an immediate rebuke from teachers union officials whose members have chafed at some of his education policies.

Speaking at an event intended to highlight his strategy for turning around struggling schools by offering an increase in federal funding for local districts that shake up their lowest-achieving campuses, Obama called the controversial firings justified."

..."American Federation of Teachers President Randi Weingarten, whose union represents the faculty in Central Falls, one of the poorest districts in Rhode Island, responded forcefully to Obama's remarks.

"We know it is tempting for people in Washington to score political points by scapegoating teachers, but it does nothing to give our students and teachers the tools they need to succeed," she said in a joint statement with other union officials.

In an interview, Weingarten said Obama's comments about the school "don't reflect the reality on the ground and completely ignore the commitment teachers have made to turn things around." Weingarten said the union was "profoundly disappointed by the comments" and said the president "seems to be focused on . . . incomplete information."

[jeanpalmer]

10. Fire Salazar

He's had over a year to implement some basic reforms. The problems have been well known for years, and yet MMS is still out of control. Obama should be pointing the finger at Salazar.

[babylonsister]

12. Jeanie, Jeanie, Jeanie, over a year? What a long=g=g time to

solve the world's problems! Yes, MMS is out there, and horrid, and we need someone to blame. Try BP? :think:

[Nite Owl]

13. But who would replace him?

It could be worse, Obama's picks are pretty bad.

[Enrique]

16. Raul Grijalva

who was many environmentalists' suggestion for Obama to pick instead of Salazar in the first place, and who wrote this letter on March 10, 2010:

http://grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=13&itemid=519

Grijalva Calls For Investigation of Oil Drilling Safety Records as Whistleblower Suggests BP Is Operating Illegally

Tuesday March 02, 2010

Washington, D.C. – Rep. Raúl M. Grijalva today announced that he and other lawmakers have asked the Minerals Management Service (MMS) to thoroughly investigate whether energy conglomerate BP is operating its Atlantis offshore oil platform – the largest in the world – without professionally approved safety documents, and to report its findings to Congress. The platform, located in the Gulf of Mexico, could be the victim of “catastrophic operator errors” if the documents are inaccurate or incomplete, according to BP internal communications.

In a Feb. 24 letter, Grijalva and 18 other House Democrats say MMS, which regulates offshore drilling practices, has not done enough so far to ensure worker and environmental safety at the site, in part because it has interpreted the relevant laws too loosely. “ommunications between MMS and congressional staff have suggested that while the company by law must maintain ‘as-built’ documents, there is no requirement that such documents be complete or accurate,” the letter reads. “This statement, if an accurate interpretation of MMS authorities, raises serious concerns.”

Grijalva, who chairs the House Natural Resources Subcommittee on National Parks, Forests and Public Lands, said the issue requires “a thorough review at the agency level, the legal level and the corporate level. The world’s largest oil rig cannot continue to operate without safety documentation. The situation is unacceptable and deserves immediate scrutiny.”

A whistleblower brought the matter to MMS’ attention in March of 2009, but the letter says the agency has done little to respond so far. “Making sure that these standards are adhered to will take on added importance as the nation sets its sights on a national agenda of energy independence,” the letter reads. The letter requests an MMS investigation of Atlantis’ safety documentation and a report to Congress “as soon as possible,” adding, “We also request that MMS describe how a regulation that requires offshore operators to maintain certain engineering documents, but does not require that those documents be complete or accurate, is appropriately protective of human health and the environment.”

Grijalva said a long record of previous oil spills highlights the need for continued environmental safeguards, however sophisticated drilling technology becomes. “From the Exxon Valdez spill to last year’s catastrophe in the Timor Sea, we have more vivid evidence than we should ever need that safety cannot be ignored by the oil industry,” he said. “I look forward to working with MMS promptly to resolve any doubts about Atlantis, because we cannot afford another billion-gallon spill on our watch.”

[babylonsister]

18. Did you ever consider Mr. Grijalva needs to be where he is right now?

He's a great voice for so many things. And iirc, he wouldn't have taken the position. He wasn't interested.

[Nite Owl]

19. He would be ideal

just don't believe Obama would do it.

[jeanpalmer]

20. Robert Kennedy Jr.

That would run contrary to Obama's penchant for appointing industry shills, but it would be a great choice. There would be a zero tolerance policy guaranteed.

[polichick]

25. That is an awesome idea - maybe now we have a chance to get someone like him. nt

[glitch]

44. If it had been him in the first place, as it should have been in a reality-based world,

perhaps this super oilcano would never have been allowed to happen.

[Teaser]

65. I'd rather have someone in there

who doesn't think autism is a product of vaccination.

[salguine]

11. Because the teachers aren't blessed with obscene wealth.

[pundaint]

21. Because ordinary people don't stand up and demand government for the People.

If the teachers joined together to fight for their interests, a national strike during the school year would have to be quickly resolved. While America doesn't value education it does value outsourcing parenting. Having to watch their own kids would get working parents and their employers more interested in finding a solution.


Our great grandparents fought for worker rights against grater oppression that we have now. Accept that its a class war, and only the monied side is fighting it - then act.

[Captain Hilts]

26. Because he has a toady for polluters in charge of environmental enforcement at DoJ? nt

[Bluenorthwest]

27. Because accountablity is for chumps

not cronies.

[vaberella]

28. Is this is a Public or Private school... Private-no federal jurisdiction. Public-federal.

I'll assume public, if it's public it's within his area since the funding is normally federal. So if he did express approval he can. I'm sure he would agree with the firing of BP execs if they were up for the chopping block, as well. Anyway, BP is a private entity. He can't go in there and fire them, although I'm sure he would.

[mkultra]

30. because 7% is a complete feailure on all fronts

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

31. Apples and Oranges

Where the similarity lies is that Obama doesn't have to legal authority to fire either group. The people working at MMS are protected under civil service statutes and can't be summarily fired. They were following a deeply flawed set of regulations and can't be dismissed on that account.

The best Obama and Salazar can do it set new regulations and hold MMS staff accountable.

I agree the summarily firing teachers is stupid policy, especially in the particular case of Central Falls.

[tranche]

32. He has no soul? He hates teachers and loves oil?

Who knows really? Maybe it's just two completely separate issues. One in which he made a comment during a Q & A and another being one of the worst man made disasters in history happening in real time. Maybe he will fire someone responsible for the disaster, maybe he will sign the largest school funding program in history, maybe he'll help states keep teachers on during the recession through federal funding. Hell, if we pay no attention to detail and continue to conflate issues we'll never know. But maybe that's goal. Who knows?

[ShortnFiery]

33. Because most people don't mind if we slouch toward fascism under a personable and intelligent

leader. It FEELS so good ... he sounds so good ... totalitarian rule can't be all that bad?!? :wow: :shrug: :(

[Tarheel_Dem]

34. Because he was elected to improve education, not save union jobs?

And as for a "rhetorical ax(e)", he's got nothing on you. Seven (7%) percent is a huge failure no matter how you and others try to paint this. :shrug:

[bvar22]

35. Simple.

Obama has reassured the Ownership Class (top 1%) that they will NEVER know a day of discomfort, while telling the Working Class that they CAN WILL compete with 3rd World Slave Labor for their jobs.

Teachers are members of the Working Class, and the NeoLiberals (Obama and the "Centrist" Democrats) will make sure that their Union is history*.

*not the "history" that is taught in the NeoLiberal NeoSchools.
In the privatized NeoSchools, mentions of "Unions" and "Organized LABOR" will go down the Memory Hole.

[and-justice-for-all]

36. The key words are "chronically troubled school"

He agrees that such a drastic solution was needed.

and there also needs to be something as equally drastic with these oil companies.

[Raineyb]

37. Interesting question. Not surprisingly I don't see a lot of cogent answers.

My answer? Accountability is only for the little people. I shan't hold my breath waiting to see any heads roll over this clusterfuck.

[branders seine]

38. because the teachers are union members

and the union didn't give him as much money as the oil company execs and their families and their employees and their lobbyists did

[hollowdweller]

59. You said it in a nutshell.

[Jakes Progress]

39. Money.

[boppers]

40. Maybe because the two issues are entirely unrelated?

Maybe because people can't sue teachers for screwing up, but they can sue companies?
Maybe because firing the rig workers, the front line people who screwed up, isn't going to fix the leak, but firing the teachers could fix the school?

[ncteechur]

41. thank you. I'm glad someone gets it.

Based on an article I read, the central falls school system had 3 options regarding its high school.

1. Close the school and reopen as a charter.
2. Fire all the teachers and rehire half of them back (but they have to reapply)
3. Implement a series of changes including longer days and extra remediation.


According to the superintendent, number 1 was not an option. She proposed a number of changes to satisfy number 3 for which teachers would be paid. The teachers objected and would not go along with them. They had public meetings in which everyone was told the options and the consequences of each. Since 1 was a no-go and 3 was objected to by the teachers, the only option left was #2. She and the Board of Ed. fired everyone and now they can rehire up to half of the staff back.

Totally different issue.

[depakid]

51. It's almost the same EXACT issue

Obama and the district both alleged incompetence among the line employees, which is the same thing that's been going on at the MMS (and other agencies, like the SEC).

Teachers are being held responsible for the demographic and exigencies that wee tossed their way- but the agency personnel and management is not.

[boppers]

52. Who was "only following orders"?

Comparing teachers to death soldiers seems wrong, but hey, you (we?) went there.

[depakid]

53. Death soldiers?

:crazy:

:shrug:

The rank and file at several federal agencies- and the various management levels at various federal agencies have failed at their missions, with consequences many magnitudes greater than what's been picked on- as a bully might gratuitously pick on, with public school teachers.

It's particularly telling when one goes out of their way to pick on such a group in front of another, more "aggressive" bullying group where circumstances suggest they might be trying to curry favor with them.

Exempli gratia: The US Chamber of Commerce.

[RollWithIt]

42. I stand by what he said....

President Obama: "So, if a school is struggling, we have to work with the principal and the teachers to find a solution. We’ve got to give them a chance to make meaningful improvements. But if a school continues to fail its students year after year after year, if it doesn’t show signs of improvement, then there’s got to be a sense of accountability. And that’s what happened in Rhode Island last week at a chronically troubled school, when just seven percent of eleventh graders passed state math tests. Seven percent. When a school board wasn’t able to deliver change by other means, they voted to lay off the faculty and the staff.”





SEVEN PERCENT?

Sometimes it is just better to start over. Less than 1 in 10 of their students could pass a simple state math test. SEVEN PERCENT.

[ProSense]

45. "Teachers are real easy targets for a triangulating president."

real easy

The Obama hates teachers meme is really lame.

[EndElectoral]

46. How many of those teachers voted for Obama I wonder?

[OhioBlue]

47. and how many benifited from the Stimulus I wonder. n/t

[MichiganVote]

48. Students, not teachers, benefit from stimulus dollars.

[Dinger]

57. This Teacher Voted For Him In 2008 (nt)

[golfguru]

50. Bad schools need to be closed

You can't cure a sick patient without bitter medicine.

The real victims of bad schools are the students, their parents,
and the whole community using that school.

[LWolf]

54. Because teachers are a favorite scapegoat, and banksters and oilmen are favored donors. nt

[hollowdweller]

58. If you are a CEO, or a soldier who kills civilians, or a private contractor who rips off the gov't.

You have the right to earn whatever you can soak the gov't for and do whatever you want and still keep your job.

But if you are a public employee especially a teacher you should work for slave wages and be held accountable for anything you do whether it's within your control or not.

It's a double standard we have so incorporated into our culture most don't even think before they speak it.

[LWolf]

60. That's true, even here at DU.

:(

[Neron616]

55. Lousy teachers DO exist!

But I doubt that ALL at that school were subpar!

[golfguru]

56. Teachers should be graded and placed in a national database

That is the only way to safeguard students from lousy teachers.

Teachers perform a very important function...molding the future generation!
Bad teachers must be weeded out. They are the real villains, not the students,
parents, communities. When a bad school is closed, the highly graded teachers
should be offered jobs in other schools.

[tonysam]

62. Oh, spare me. The problem in education is with administrators,

who happen to have ironclad job security, not with the teachers.

I can't believe the rightwing garbage being spewed on a Democratic board.

[golfguru]

64. I have zero problem with getting rid of bad administrators also.

I have zero problem getting rid of ALL bad performers.

[KingFlorez]

61. He can't fire anyone in a private company

And the oil spill was the fault of a private company. I don't get this logic.

As I said before about the teachers, teachers don't usually get fired if they are doing their job.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

63. Cuz it's a private company?!?!??! *shrug* n/t

[boppers]

66. Update: the teachers were re-hired.

They eventually agreed to spend more time teaching.

[backscatter712]

67. Saw that earlier today. Sounds like good news.