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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:04 PM
Original message
Sestak Wins. So Does Obama.
Edited on Wed May-19-10 05:05 PM by babylonsister
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/hendrikhertzberg/2010/05/sestak-specter-obama.html#ixzz0oPVHCsAZ

Sestak Wins. So Does Obama.
Posted by Hendrik Hertzberg


Referring to the two big upsets of the night—the victories of Joe Sestak in Pennsylvania and Rand “Namesake of Ayn, Son of Ron” Paul in Kentucky—Jeff Zeleny and Carl Hulse write in today’s Times:

The results were sobering for both parties, amounting to a rejection of candidates selected and backed by leaders in Washington who found themselves out of step with their electorates.


That may be true in Kentucky, where McConnell learned that no amount of subservience to Tea Party/Fox News/talk-radio nihilism can ever be enough, but I don’t see how it applies to Pennsylvania.

Arlen Specter was not “selected by leaders in Washington.” He selected himself. As one of the last of the moderate Republicans, he was headed for defeat in his own party’s primary.
He thought (no doubt correctly) that his chances for survival would be better in the other party, so he switched. The White House promised him support because his vote was an absolute sine qua non for overcoming Republican filibusters, most crucially filibusters against the health-care bill, on which the fate of Obama’s Presidency and the Democratic Congress rested. If this was a “backroom deal,” it was one that the White House and the “Democratic establishment” would have been criminally irresponsible not to cut.

With health care safely passed, however, the interests of the White House and the national Democratic Party are better served by Sestak’s winning the primary. Sestak is an actual Democrat, not a Democrat of opportunity. As such he will be a far more reliable and sincere supporter of the President and the President’s policies than Specter would have been if, at eighty years of age, the cranky ex-Republican had been vouchsafed a sixth (and last) six-year term. Moreover, Sestak is more likely to beat the Republican nominee, the fanatical anti-tax ideologue Pat Toomey. If Sestak wins in November, he'll probably be a senator for a long time. Given actuarial realities, a reëlected Specter might have ended up having to be replaced by a gubernatorial appointee, and there is no guarantee that Pennsylvania’s next governor will be a Democrat.

So I don’t see how this is some sort of defeat for the White House or miscalculation on their part. It looks more like a series of rather brilliant chess moves.


Of course, this doesn’t prove that the Democratic voters of Pennsylvania took all this into account and consciously made a rational, strategically thought-out choice. But there’s a better case for that interpretation than for the notion that Sestak’s victory was nothing but a populist spasm—a rejection of “Washington,” even a rebuke to President Obama.

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Only in bizarro world does the loss of a WH backed candidate equate a WH victory.
Obama proved once again as he did in Mass, and NJ , that he has NO coat tails.This isn't chess this is a LOSS. Obama WON in 2008.That is what victory looks like. This is a LOSS. The WH and the DNC disregarfd the message of the voters at their peril. The meassage is "NO MORE COMPROMISE"
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. This must make you vewy sad. This is no loss; this admin knew
awhile ago Specter was doomed which is why Obama refused to campaign for him the last week. He distanced himself, and that proved to be a good move.
So sorry that disappoints you so royally.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. It doesn't disappoint me. A message was sent to the WH. I hope they heed it.
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Smashcut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Right. So once again he hedged and supported no one and nothing in particular.
Now his message team wants to claim a "win" no matter the outcome, as usual.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. He "distanced himself" ???
You mean he Cut and Ran when the polls changed?

Yeah. This is a HUGE victory for the White House.... :eyes:
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
27. I don't understand why you guys are so desperate to spin this...
as some kind of brilliant political strategy on the part of Obama.

Seems like it would be smarter to just accept the defeat and move forward. Trying to take credit for someone else's win just makes you look weaker.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-20-10 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. Why are some of you so desperate to spin it as a huge loss or failure on Obama's part...
That's also what the media and rightwingers want the general public to believe. Its not that big a deal but its just not true. I am sure they prefer Sestak won. He is more likely to win in Nov. It was simply a political deal with Specter that made sense at the time and having to do it over I suspect the WH would have done the same.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Obama proved once again he has NO coat tails
He would, but only if he and his advisers would recognize that the voters wont get behind corporate puppets with any enthusiasm anymore and choose who he supports with greater care.

If he would have done that this year his own base might have come around and begun to believe change was still a possibility instead of just a dead memory of a past advertising campaign.
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. Overdramatized BS. I fully support the President and I would have voted for Sestak.
How many other Democrats you think feel the same way I do? Can you show me any kind of polling proof that shows that the White House's support for Specter contributed any note worthy damage to President Obama's approval among self identified Dems or Liberals? (I know you can't, but I enjoy asking)
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. I disagree. I don't see this as a loss, I see it as a teachable moment
I hope the Administration gets the message and aces the test.
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. +1
It was more of a slam than going in person to get the Olympics in Chicago and then coming back empty handed.

When I heard about the WH "distancing" themselves, I knew Sestak won. I bet the WH polls right up there with the best of them. Their polling would have shown "magic bullet" loosing, hence the distance.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. This will help Obama pass the agenda he campaigned on.
It's a huge victory for Obama and progressives.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-20-10 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
34. Isnt it ironic
That the guy who defeated Obama's candidate is, in reality, the best candidate for supporting Obama's agenda.

Sadly this is a theme that we see repeating itself with this administration, always run with the republican candidate/ideas/etc.
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BunkerHill24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. darn it...i love me Pennsylvania
wow, just wow!
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. That's some spin
"rather brilliant chess moves" ?

:rofl:
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. even when Obama loses, he wins!
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. It isn't brilliant chess,
Obama endorsed and supported Specter, and Specter got his ass handed to him. That isn't brilliant chess, that is simply losing.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-20-10 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
36. You're trying to simplify it but that's not all that's involved.
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. If Specter won it would have been a victory for Obama and when he loses it is a victory for Obama
Works out pretty well for the people who try to spin everything in favor of the people in power.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Don't have to spin..they're both Dems and Arlen voted
for Bills in the Senate that went through and he will be there until January to vote with the Dems and work for Sestak to win in PA..right along with the White House.

Win Win for anyone who's interested in Democracy.
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Don't try to imply that those who disagree with you are not interested in democracy
While Sestak's win may not be a devastating defeat for the White House to imply it was a win clearly is spin. The White House campaigned for Specter, Specter lost and it is ridiculous to suggest Obama won when his candidate lost. Certainly Sestak will help Obama in the future so it is not a huge defeat for the White House, but it is certainly not a win either and to suggest otherwise is spin.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Exactly. It isn't a spectatcular defeat, but the WH endorsed candidate lost.
It is disingenuous to describe this as a WIN for Obama. It isn't.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Not implying..I'm stating that this is a win win situation for the
Edited on Wed May-19-10 07:04 PM by Cha
White House and Joe Sestak and they are on the side of Democracy.

"Sestak Wins. So Does Obama"

By Hendrik Hertzberg:

"Referring to the two big upsets of the night—the victories of Joe Sestak in Pennsylvania and Rand “Namesake of Ayn, Son of Ron” Paul in Kentucky—Jeff Zeleny and Carl Hulse write in today’s Times:

The results were sobering for both parties, amounting to a rejection of candidates selected and backed by leaders in Washington who found themselves out of step with their electorates.

That may be true in Kentucky, where McConnell learned that no amount of subservience to Tea Party/Fox News/talk-radio nihilism can ever be enough, but I don’t see how it applies to Pennsylvania.

Arlen Specter was not “selected by leaders in Washington.” He selected himself. As one of the last of the moderate Republicans, he was headed for defeat in his own party’s primary. He thought (no doubt correctly) that his chances for survival would be better in the other party, so he switched. The White House promised him support because his vote was an absolute sine qua non for overcoming Republican filibusters, most crucially filibusters against the health-care bill, on which the fate of Obama’s Presidency and the Democratic Congress rested. If this was a “backroom deal,” it was one that the White House and the “Democratic establishment” would have been criminally irresponsible not to cut.

With health care safely passed, however, the interests of the White House and the national Democratic Party are better served by Sestak’s winning the primary. Sestak is an actual Democrat, not a Democrat of opportunity. As such he will be a far more reliable and sincere supporter of the President and the President’s policies than Specter would have been if, at eighty years of age, the cranky ex-Republican had been vouchsafed a sixth (and last) six-year term. Moreover, Sestak is more likely to beat the Republican nominee, the fanatical anti-tax ideologue Pat Toomey. If Sestak wins in November, he'll probably be a senator for a long time. Given actuarial realities, a reëlected Specter might have ended up having to be replaced by a gubernatorial appointee, and there is no guarantee that Pennsylvania’s next governor will be a Democrat.

So I don’t see how this is some sort of defeat for the White House or miscalculation on their part. It looks more like a series of rather brilliant chess moves.

Of course, this doesn’t prove that the Democratic voters of Pennsylvania took all this into account and consciously made a rational, strategically thought-out choice. But there’s a better case for that interpretation than for the notion that Sestak’s victory was nothing but a populist spasm—a rejection of “Washington,” even a rebuke to President Obama."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x305558
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/hendrikhertzberg/2010/05/sestak-specter-obama.html#ixzz0oPcuwJFG
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. But then the WH only endorsed one, and he LOST.And Specter votes just as he always has
and he isn't a liberal. But heck, we wanted the majority to set the agenda and then we did nothing with it. We didn't even get a public option out of it. So actually it doesn't matter. But make no mistake, the WH LOST.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
11. Anyone who's not happy that this is a win
for Joe Sestak and the Obama Admin..doesn't have my sympathy.

I know some like to play up any perception that Obama "loses" but this just isn't the case when you look at the whole picture instead of a minute aspect of a speck.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I am happy that the Liberals sent a message of NO COMPROMISE to the WH.
This is a win for Sestak who won without DNC or Obama support. You cannot claim a win you did not contribute to. I suppose you think Mass was a WIN too?
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-20-10 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
31. a vote to reject someone who served 29 YEARS
as a REPUBLICAN was a rebuke of the White House? Doubt it. The WH supported Specter probably in a deal to get him to switch parties. But PA remembers that he was a Republican for a very long time. I'm not surprised that he lost the primary.

MA was not a win, MA was a wakeup call that no candidate is guaranteed to win any race and you have to put in the effort.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. I completely saw this as a win for Pres Obama...
He did the right thing by supporting Specter. His vote was crucial, so the Prez did what a smart man would do. That being said, I'm glad Specter is gone.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Of course it is..Pres Obama was and is classy
all the way.
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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. That's exactly what I see.

Of course Obama told Specter he'd campaign for him. Of course it was the right thing to do for Obama to campaign for Specter - true to his agreement.


That doesn't change the fact that Sestak is the better person to be running in 2010, and the better dem to be our dem Senator from PA.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
22. I meant to say that
As a wise man once said, whatever gets you through the night, it's alright.
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PopSixSquish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-20-10 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #22
35. That John Lennon was a Wise Man
:hi:
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
23. Oops, this is a dupe. Sorry. First thread here:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. They're both goin'
pretty good.:)
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-19-10 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
26. I'm holding judgement until I see how much support Obama gives him in the general even though Sestak
snubbed his stated wishes.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-20-10 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
33. The White House ran a GOTV effort for Specter on election day.
Edited on Thu May-20-10 08:05 AM by freddie mertz
They mobilized OFA to help him. The media was saturated with Obama "I love Arlen" ads.

No way was this anything but a loss for a White House-backed candidate.

But that was then, this is now. The race is over and the public face of the party will be one of unity.

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