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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 10:44 PM
Original message
No, REALLY
Edited on Wed May-26-10 10:44 PM by NanceGreggs
Dear President Obama:

A lot of people are upset with you right now. Not me, but a lot of people.

And here’s why …

On your first day in office, you should have overhauled the entire legal system, financial system, education system, healthcare system, rooted-out and fired every incompetent person with a government job, repealed DADT, saved the country from the looming economic crisis, rebuilt the crumbling infrastructure, investigated every government department and made whatever changes were necessary, re-established respect for our nation with every foreign leader and their people, put every American back to work, solved the immigration problem, fixed the mortgage crisis, reversed global warming, lowered crime, housed the homeless, fed the hungry, cured the sick, raised the dead from their graves, righted every wrong – and just generally un-do every single thing that has ever been done incorrectly, unjustly, inefficiently or ill-advisedly by your immediate predecessor, as well as every administration going back to George Washington.

On your second day in office, you should have done even more.

The problems with you, personally, are pretty overwhelming. You talk too much, but not enough. You make too many public appearances – what are you hiding from? You’re all talk and no action – except when you act, and then one has to wonder exactly what it is you’re not talking about, and why.

And for God’s sake, don’t go blaming the MSM for your woes. We all know they were all up in W’s face, 24-7, for eight years. Hey, you think the birthers are on your last nerve? That was nothin’ compared to how the librul media wouldn’t shut up about Georgie’s missing military records, lying us into war, wiretapping without warrants, torture – hey, you name it, they were on his case. If it wasn’t for runaway brides, missing blond teenagers and Terry Schiavo, the man wouldn’t have had a minute’s peace from the relentless hounding of every newspaper and TV news outlet in the nation. So kwityerbitchin’.

You promised change – and as far as I can see, a year and a half into your first term, you still haven’t changed everything yet. The colour blue is still known as b-l-u-e, the Equator is still where it’s always been, and American Idol is still on the air – so much for your empty rhetoric.

As for hope – well, where do I begin? I’d hoped to wake up to world peace, the announcement of a cure for every disease, and lookin' twenty years younger while sportin' a rack that would make Pamela Anderson cry. I didn't. And it's all your fault.

But now we come to the latest bone of contention, your total ineptitude in handling the BP oil leak. Here’s where you run out of excuses.

You should have thrown BP off the job immediately, and sent in a bunch of really smart guys who know how to fix this problem. I know from reliable sources that this is easily done, that the appropriate personnel are at-the-ready. Why you are standing in their way is anybody’s guess. Or you could have simply turned to the internetz, where people on message boards with absolutely no experience, education, or expertise in the area of deep-well drilling have all kinds of solutions that you should be testing, analyzing and weighing as viable options that will be immediately successful – so just pick one, why don’t ya?

Why haven’t you just done the right thing – by breaking the law and seizing BP’s equipment and assets? The last president didn’t give a fuck about the law – why should you? Don’t worry about those who would yell and scream that you have no right to do so. They only say that when it’s the other guy who’s in the WH, not one of their own – which is kinda what they said when it was the other guy in office, and not theirs, and took the opposite position – but I digress.

It comes down to this, Obama: Why aren’t you in the Gulf, pluggin’ that hole? Why aren’t you in DC, tending to business? Why aren’t you on TV all day, every day, explaining what it is you’re doing – and why aren’t you holding everybody’s hand while you’re doing it? Why are you acting calm and controlled in the face of disaster – don’t you get how serious this is? Why are you not acting like a raving lunatic – don’t you know how reassuring that kind of behavior is? Why aren't you clearing brush somewhere, like a chosen-by-God president does?

It's being said that this is your Katrina, sir. And despite the differences in the circumstances, as well as the response, that must be the case - because Anderson Cooper said so, and he had his shirt-sleeves rolled up when he said it. For a lot of Americans, that's pretty much all it takes. Even those who claim that the MSM is not to be trusted will change their tune when AC's cufflinks rise above the wrist - or when Bobby Jindal yells for sandbags - and plenty of 'em, boys, keep 'em coming.

You are being perceived as too weak, too strong, too self-assertive, too self-effacing, too loud, too soft-spoken, too patient, too quick-to-anger, too analytical, too spontaneous, too fast on your feet, too slow to understand, too outspoken, too silent, too dumb to deal with this disaster of mammoth proportions – and way too smart for your own damned good.

So why don’t you just cut that out? Why don’t you just display some leadership*? (*definition may vary – but vague enough to mean, uh, whatever)

Like I said, Mr. President, some people are really upset with you right now. And not only are they willing to tell you that whatever you’re doing, it’s completely wrong, they’re also more than happy to tell you that __________ (their preferred candidate here) would have done a much better job.

And, like I also said, I’m not one of them.

Keep doing what you’re doin’, Mr. Prez – we’ve got your back.

Despite what you may read on the internetz about so-called real Democrats, real progressives, and real liberals, your real base is here to stay.

--- NanceGreggs


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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Boo hoo! Politics ain't beanbag, Greggs. nt
Edited on Wed May-26-10 10:46 PM by Captain Hilts
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
65. True Cap'n. I would have settled for rescinding The Patriot Act, DADT and winding down
the two foreign occupations. Those monies saved could have been diverted to true Health Care and Education funding.

I could have been thrilled if you could have taken leadership of the bloated MIC and not allowed them to be fed with EVEN MORE of our tax dollars for DEATH and DESTRUCTION every damn year.

But I'm easy that way.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #65
81. What?
We were doing so well after the last 20 years, and you radicals wanted real change?

It's a good thing this country is staying, basically, on track, even with Obama.

If yall were the elite, and experts, you'd understand where we are headed. You're not, so, STFU.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #81
138. Radical? Not wanting to continue two immoral military occupations of third world countries ...
is considered radical? Asking the President to act "Presidential" by stopping the senseless maiming and killing as well as re-focus those BILLIONS to health care and education? Oh, that's rich. :eyes:
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #138
147. It was rich, wasn't it?
I fancy myself writing for Colbert, some day. <smirk>
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #65
236. DADT very close to repeal
vote on rigt this second; passed the Senate earlier today
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Recommended.
I've got your back, Mr. President.

:kick:
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Nance,
you and I are at the same fever pitch, given the proximity of our posts. And there's some symmetry there as well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8427113

:thumbsup:
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. I also like arguing with Straw Men
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
279. Isn't that what basically all of her posts amount to? n/t
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placton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. If only Obama had OUR backs!
sigh
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. He Does.
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Drops_not_Dope Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
102. Hey cha cha
he ain't got mine.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #102
107. He has mine and all my friends, family and millions of people
I don't know.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. against the walls -- yup -- he's got our back
lobbyists pick our pockets while we're up against the wall....
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #25
58. And the ca-ching of the Oil People at the banquet tonight
Drowns out the tears of those foreclosed upon, or losing their homes and livelihood now that the shrimp are covered with oil
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #58
280. Oh boo hoo. Who was that senator cryin on tv the other day
about his beloved Louisiana? Where were all those tears after Katrina and bodies of black folks floatin in the streets for days on end? Huh? Fuck that AND them! I'm supposed to feel sorry for an industry that discriminates? HELL NO!! The fishing industry has been on lock for white folks for a century via the 'good ole boy' network. FUCK EM!
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Actually, I think rooting out all the chimp-bots should have been top priority.
Yes, from all government agencies.

Their allegiance is pledged to the BFEE, not the country.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. This is the best part of your post:
You are being perceived as too weak, too strong, too self-assertive, too self-effacing, too loud, too soft-spoken, too patient, too quick-to-anger, too analytical, too spontaneous, too fast on your feet, too slow to understand, too outspoken, too silent, too dumb to deal with this disaster of mammoth proportions – and way too smart for your own damned good.


People want Obama to be whatever they (that particular person) want him to be. I have not seen too many Presidents have such projected feelings as Obama has. Maybe because the country was in a real crisis when he took over. Obama's personality is not too flashy, loud, or in your face. He does not seem to like major drama. I guess people call that "cold". Aloof. Standoffish. I have been called those things. Oh well...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. If you feel that American citizens ...
... who live out of country should not be permitted to state their opinions on their own nation, you should direct your concerns to the Admins of DU and have them deal with it accordingly.

BTW, the "you don't live here" meme is getting really, really, really old. Your "people" should be more creative.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
30. Amen to that!!
(He posted from Langley, VA, on the way back from my Dallas home to my posting in Germany).
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. Godspeed and safe trip ...
... you unAmerican, have-no-right-to-post-here bastard!!!

:hug:
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #38
53. You vill kontinue to enchoy postink here....
As lonk as you do exactly as you are toldt!!!!!!!!!
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. My papers are in order, sir ...
... uh - you're not from Arizona, are you?
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. My accent gave it away, huh?
Gotta work on that..........
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
104. OK Nance, I accept your point, but it does raise this question:
Would you be willing to give up your Canadian "socialist" health care benefits and move back here when the new HC "Reforms" go into effect?

Are you willing to put your own health, and that of your family, into the hands of the proposed "health exchange," which you would be mandated to do by law under the new plan.

I personally think you would have to be nuts to take up such an opportunity.

So feel free to answer it honestly.

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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #104
169. Access to healthcare had nothing to do ...
... with my moving to Toronto. So why would it have anything to do with my leaving?

I live in this city because I love it. It's clean, safe, beautiful, ethnically diverse, exciting - I could go on and on.

I own a house here that I also love - and I have great friends, a great career, etc.

I don't know about you, but most people I know don't choose their place of residence based on making a political statement of some sort or other.

If Canada ended universal healthcare tomorrow, and the US adopted it across the board, I still wouldn't budge from here. It's become my home, and although having to pay for healthcare would be a hardship, it still wouldn't change the fact that I love where I am.

As for my family, they're all in the States - always have been. My son, a US citizen born before we moved here, moved back to the States ten years ago due to his career - and yes, he's paying through the nose for healthcare coverage. But, as you don't seem to be able to understand, people tend to take a myriad of things into consideration when choosing to live one place or another.

I am here because I want to be - and while the healthcare here is something I feel extremely fortunate to have as a result thereof, it is by no means the thing that keeps me in this wonderful city.





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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #169
170. There's a really creepy obsession that some folks have with you, Nance.
I dislike seeing you ganged up on in this manner.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #169
175. Well, for a variety of reasons, including national HC, I envy you living there.
I'd like to move up there myself, to tell the truth.

I fear the best days of this country, if we ever had any, are rapidly receding.

And no, I don't blame Obama for that. It might just be irreversible.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
111. They can't stand the veracity so grasping at why
should you be able to say anything becomes the crutch.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #111
124. The coordinated attacks are quite tiresome. And the Canada meme
is insulting to every DU expat who posts on this board, as well as to those of us who enjoy hearing what they have to say.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #124
128. ..
Well said, Devon.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #128
133. Thank you, sweet Cha!
Are you moving back to Hawaii soon? I think you mentioned that a while ago. Forgive me if I've gotten it wrong.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #133
134. You haven't..
in OctoberB-)
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
123. OMG, was it the Canada thing again?
Good grief. Well, they must be having fits over "there."
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #123
155. there i was, sitting under an old tree, enjoying my afternoon cruise missle, when suddenly there was
Edited on Thu May-27-10 01:17 PM by dionysus
such an awful commotion! it startled me so much i spilled my latte all over my jack boot.

it was like a stampede of elephants... i wonder where they were headed...
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #155
161. ...
:rofl:

But were they stampeding or lurching?
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
187. "Ignored" said that? What a joke
Yes, some of the dumb memes thrust out at people are really, really, old.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #187
205. But this is the most disgusting, blatant
coordinated attack on Nance yet. That is something new.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #205
211. People simultaneously spotting bullshit is not a coordinated attack
Get a bloody grip.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #211
237. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #205
252. A couple of the people involved are NO SURPRISE to me. I won't name names.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #205
262. Hilarious, you are seeing conspiracies everywhere.
You need to be in "September 11"
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ladym55 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. Good points
Although it often seemed like the previous occupant sent the nation into the dumpster in a flash, he DID have EIGHT WHOLE YEARS to bring us 9/11 (what? me worry? What? Me read my intelligence briefings?), dismantle the Constitution, put morons on the Supreme Court, lie us into an unnecessary war, get us mired in that same war, spend a surplus into a giant deficit, shred regulations on oil, coal, and the financial industry, make us an international embarrassment, and bring the nation to the bring of economic collapse.

It is going to take time to undo all of this damage, but it's hard to be patient sometimes.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. And, I want President Obama to
be himself.

Brilliant, Nance.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. K&R
Great job Nance. This Katrina bit is outrageous. This is totally different.
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classof56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm with ya, Nance. Thanks for articulating so well once again.
And a Big R from me.

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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. Not just brilliant........FUCKING brilliant!
And perfect too.

Thank you!

Proud to K&R

:patriot:
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. OMG, Peggy ...
I'm beginning to understand why your "potty mouth" is becoming legendary on DU.

:rofl:

And thanks!
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. I do it so routinely now...
I was SURE nobody would notice!

And what do you mean....becoming???

I'll have you know I AM Legendary!

:woohoo:

:rofl:
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #15
33. I was getting a little bit worried -
you know - I am so far out of sync with "normal people" - that just MAYBE I was waaaaaaaaaaay off base with my thinking. I was being mocked and villified willy-nilly.

I read Nance's post and thought, "YAY!!! She's a well-respected poster on DU and she feels this way so maybe I'm okay. Maybe I'm not "out of touch with reality".

And THEN!!!!!!!!!!!

I read YOUR POST.

:woohoo:

I mean - GD!

CALIFORNIA-F'ing-PEGGY!! is looking at this from the same angle I am, too! So I must not be as crazy and evil as "they" are trying to make me out to be!!!!


You guys (Nance and CP) have noooooooooo idea what a sense of relief I just felt reading your posts.

THANK YOU!

:grouphug:
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. My dear mzteris!
Any time you want to put ME in NanceGregg's league is OK with ME!

She writes so much better, so much more clearly, than I do...

Thank you, sweetie!

:hug:
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. Thank YOU, mzteris ...
"Divide and conquer" used to be what most here said about the GOP -v- the Dems.

It's sad to know that some so-called "Democrats" are now using it as a strategy themselves, anxious to divide their own party.

I flunked the "purist" test - and I'm proud of it.

You're not alone - and neither am I.

(P.S. Don't listen to CalPeg - she has a potty-mouth, and isn't ashamed to say so.)
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #36
151. she's been SUCH a bad influence on me.
:rofl:

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one_voice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. K & R....
Excellent. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

I still support President Obama.
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ellaydubya Donating Member (301 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
17. Hear!! Hear!!
Well said, NanceGreggs!! Once again, I must add.

Never give it up!

Lee Ann

PS: And I think our president is one cool dude!!! Yes, we have his back.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
19. Oh lord. Puh leeezze. That is a stretch waaaayyy too far even for you, Nance.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
206. Well, Nance, I was going to say that the second person to respond to my post after
your response had nailed most of my reasons, but I see that the subthread has been deleted, which is very unfortunate. I only read the response once but it seemed totally legit and well stated, so I don't know why it was killed. Oh well.

The reason I see it as a stretch is due to the way I think President Obama has handled this entire situation, which to me seems almost with a blase approach. He did make what I would refer to as a perfunctory visit to the Gulf Coast early on, where there were a number of photo ops of him shaking the hand of Coasties (I think). When he did that I thought "Okay, now he's going to crank it up and get on those BP bastards so they get this taken care of quickly." But that did not happen.

We are now FIVE weeks into this nightmare of oil spewing from the Gulf floor and we are just starting to see the President act as if he really views this as an event that is worthy of his highest level of concern and attention. Maybe he has felt that all along, but to me it has not been conveyed to most Average Americans. I say that because I live and work with a bunch of wacko liberals and a bunch of wacko right-wingers and they are unanimous in their "WHEN the Fuck is the President going to get ON THIS?" Perhaps I'm a bit touchy about this devastation of the Gulf Coast of the U.S. because many of my inlaws are from the Gulf Coast and many still live there. But I really don't think that has skewed my perspective. This is a NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL CATASTROPHE OF THE FIRST MAGNITUDE and it should have been seen as such and treated as such from the gitgo. This is as horrific as a TERRORIST ATTACK, maybe even more so due to the damage that will ultimately be done.

To assert that any Americans and especially Democrats are wrong or misguided in thinking and saying that President Obama seems to have been muddling through the response to this disaster is unfair and uncalled for, IMO. That's why I said what I said.



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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #206
227. LOL! That would be me - thanks for the credit. I'm not happy with Obama
and my posts get frequently deleted for explaining why. Anything critical of democrats is heavily censored - however when it comes to bashing someone critical of democrats, its open season.

You know what's interesting? Liberals unhappy with the current crop of democrats almost never attack individuals. We discuss specific policy decisions and point to the hypocrisy and corruption - oil drilling, war, torture, etc.

And the wonks waste no time by attacking the people writing these posts as whiners and pony lovers, etc. They never offer a credible defense of the merits of the complaint - they just attack us personally as "disloyal". If they were really confident and comfortable with our spiraling costs of war - they'd say so. But they don't. They attack.

Very strange. Liberals have done nothing wrong. We weren't allowed at the policy table for health care, wall street reform, oil drilling, war - I don't get the hate directed at us. I think we are just a scapegoat for the disaster that has become mainstream politics. You think we were the ones who shoved these things down their throats. Dems have moved to the right and the behavior is so perfectly consistent with 1980s Reagan supporters.

There's only a million or so of us, neither party really offers us any policy representation. Both republicans and democrats seem unable to stop hammering us down until the last liberal stops going to the voting booth. That seems to be the objective here.

Crazy times indeed.


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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #227
233. Yep, you were the culprit, scentopine. Your first post was spot on and this one is as well.
I have to say that I disagree with your comment that "Theres only a million or so of us . . ." I think we number in the tens of millions despite all of the efforts to marginalize us and make us irrelevant. Just think where this nation would be if it weren't for the liberal/left/progressive wing of the Democratic party! That is a very scary thought.

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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #233
241. 10 million! I would love for you to be right - I think there are only a handful of liberals
Edited on Thu May-27-10 09:47 PM by scentopine
here at DU. I'm arguing against the same policies I did 30+ years ago. They were called republicans back then.

People think getting on a step ladder and making fun of republicans (and liberals) all day and night is the same thing as working for change. It isn't. It distracts us from the duplicity that is within our own party. The problems aren't getting smaller and easier to solve. Yet we can't rise above you are either for us or against us.

Republican leadership has moved so far right that democratic leadership is simply filling in the vacuum. In our "free" market, we are conditioned to take any advantage of any demand or opportunity no matter what the cost in principals and ethics. Its as if the democratic party said - "Oh I get it, you want me to dress up like 1980s republican? No problem, but it will cost you $30 instead of the usual $25. Cash only."

With only two mainstream parties, it's not looking like change is in the forecast. Or as Obama would say "now is not the time to dwell on the past (campaign rhetoric). It is time to move forward (with our fund raising efforts on Wall Street).

And so it goes.

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #241
245. Okay, I thought you were referring to one million in America. nt
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #245
250. I was :-) I'm glad you pointed this out - I was unaware, should know but haven't kept up
wikipedia says 22% of 2008 electorate identified as liberal - about 130 million voted so that is like 28 million. Seems like a smart president would want to work with us instead of wasting time and energy with people who want to destroy him.

Still, it seems high, the size of the electorate isn't the size of the voting population and I just never hear anyone (definately not 22% of people) refer to them selves as a liberal so I'd love to know how they determined this. I'm in Texas so its bleak and that biases my thinking... if you have any better data I'd love to review it. This is an interesting topic.
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
20. The most accurate summation of most of the criticisms aimed at President Obama to date.
I may end up stealing exact paragraphs from this just to save myself a lot of work when arguing against all the absurdly unrealistic expectations that get thrown around here.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Steal away!
:hi:
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byrok Donating Member (132 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
157. Fantastic!
Edited on Thu May-27-10 01:22 PM by byrok
I'm going to print it, and tag it to the fridge so I won't have to keep repeating myself when I have company. Now I can just point and smile. No one says it better than you Nance. Thank you.:loveya:

edited to add K & R
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. Wow- so much for rejoining the reality based community.
:silly:
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Never left it ...
... as opposed to those who perceive themselves to be "reaity-based" - like the Teabaggers, as an example.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Thanks for the kick!
Speechifying IS catchy - on a website that has more than TWO people on-site at any given time - like this one.

:hi:
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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
28. Wonderful, just wonderful! I'm going to bookmark this so
when I start feeling down from reading all the nonsense that appears on this wacky site I can go back and read it and be reminded that there really are still smart, reasonable people who post here and who get it! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
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Still Sensible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
31. Thank you Nance. Well said as always...
I think President Obama looked upon those "bullhorn" moments of his predecessor for the theater they were and he eschews that approach... the "mission accomplished" on the deck of the Abe Lincoln, for instance. On the other hand, I believe he understands politically the need to be more out front--proactive--and that is why he is going to Louisiana again this Friday. I expect he will make sure such an appearance is not just an empty photo op.

I also think his somewhat remote appearing approach is infuriating to many people because they read that as not giving the disaster the import such a catastrophe deserves. The actions of the White House, including the mobilization of a lot of resources and many government departments since early on after the explosion has been well documented here at DU.

While I support the President and appreciate what resources have been committed , I am troubled by a few things as I watch the disaster continue to unfold. The seeming lack of surface skimmers, and the early apparently ineffective use of miles of booms (also as recounted here at DU) for instance. With so much boom deployed, why do Louisiana coastal marshes look like they do today?

Much of the interaction between the Coast Guard Admiral and people on the ground on the gulf coast has sure made a question of how in control the government is or has been. I know they are walking the fine line between control and BP responsibility, but the impression that BP has been in total control 'of everything' is taking hold.

Hopefully we will see on Friday some of the fire Axelrod reported about President Obama today. Hopefully he will be able to make it clear that he and his administration are giving the disaster the import it deserves.

Obviously we are all hoping that the current attempt to plug the damn hole works.

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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
32. K&U
Edited on Thu May-27-10 12:14 AM by inna

eta: what strawman-filled, intelligence-insulting, nauseating drivel.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. Thanks for the kick!
Always appreciated!!!
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. any time, dear.

nothing personal, btw;

in fact, I used to love (and automatically recommend) your posts and you were one of the reasons I even discovered/joined DU in the first place (several years ago).
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #39
50. What gets said ...
... on a political website should never be taken personally. I wish more people recognized that.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #39
66. Times have changed.
Edited on Thu May-27-10 05:55 AM by ShortnFiery
What a true waste of super-intelligence and persuasive writing talent. :( I admire people who are gifted but sometimes one has to face the fact that this Gulf oil disaster is of true epic proportions and we need a leader who is not hesitant to call in the assistance of ALL Americans as well as the talent of the World Community. Some of these marshlands will be *dead zones* for generations.

During times of crisis, screw intellectual pragmatism, we need an empathetic LEADER with a sound moral compass pointed at DEMANDING the ensured welfare of wage earning people before corrupt corporate interests.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #37
130. K + 1000
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #32
68. +1
:thumbsup:
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madamesilverspurs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
35. Delicious!
And it will be sent to everyone on my list (well, maybe not to my winger brother, but definitely everyone else). Tickles me to note that I've put the right people on ignore - seems they don't like you, either. I'm in such good company!

Big K and R.

-
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Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
40. Just when I start a personal pity party....
...you bring the fire back.

Thank you, Nance.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
41. Yep! DU enjoys a good Panic, and the MSM looks towards us for guidance
to get a signal on exactly when to turn the knife!

Boy were they relieved that something came up
shortly after the election results they'd hoped for
didn't quite materialize.

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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
42. "make Pamela Anderson cry"...
Why do you hate Pamela Anderson? That's just mean. :evilgrin:
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
43. Why are you arguing against imaginary people?
I am not trying to tell you not to argue against imaginary people, I just find the activity to be curious.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #43
196. It's easier than arguing with real people. n/t
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
44. Anderson Coppers rolled up sleeves...
I'm glad you caught that act because hardly anyone is watching him pose around the world anymore.

It's wonderful retribution for being such a pompous ass parading around like he cares like he knows what the people are going through.

The more I see of journalism the more I think about Broadcast News that wonderful movie with Holly Hunter and Jack Nicholson and a whole lot of other great folks.

I think our generation was spoiled by Walter Cronkite, Hugh Downs, Huntley and Brinkley.

Now we have hairdo's and colored eye contacts...
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. How sad that we think of ...
... our generation as being "spoiled by" good journalists, instead of having had the good journalists our country deserves - requires - your appropriate adjective here.

I'm afraid the generations following ours will never know what that's all about.

What used to be the norm in journalism is now seen as something remarkable.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #47
75. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RFKHumphreyObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
45. Wow! Your posts just become more eloquent by the day Nance
I didn't think that was possible but you always prove me wrong

Can't K&R this enough
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lovemydog Donating Member (414 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
46. thanks
Boy oh boy I agree with this post. I think President Obama is doing a fantastic job.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
48. K&R. nt
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
49. If i wasnt married.....
I would beat a path to your door!

Love ya Nance! Well said once again.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
51. Worst. Straw Men. Ever.
Maybe some day you'll run out of hay and learn to listen.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. Given what I am ...
... told I am supposed to listen to, Good God, I hope not.

I had eight years of being preached to about what I should listen to - and it don't sound any better coming from alleged Democrats than it did coming from the GOP.

Sorry, but the "straw man" meme is extremely tiresome. I sincerely wish that the people who have nothing of substance to say would get a bit more creative in expressing - nothing.
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boston bean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #52
80. That's rich! Where is the substance in your OP?
It's nothing but an opinion piece, with no facts. It's nasty in tone. And you don't even attempt to discuss any of the issues you are criticizing other for holding, except to say they want a pony, they want a man to fail.

This post had ZERO substance.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #51
64. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #64
70. Hate?
I haven't got an ounce.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #70
77. .
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #77
82. Too bad you didn't take that to heart
BEFORE your accused another poster of being full of hate.

Also, too bad the OP didn't take it to heart before she wrote this piece of flame bait denigrating other DUers who have the temerity to disagree with this Admin.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #82
90. Your reply makes no sense.
Those who have a history of nothing but criticism of Obama and his supporters have zero credibility here.

Constructive criticism is welcome and encouraged at DU. But those that have done nothing but attack and criticize should not expect to be "showered with rose petals".

The OP has no such history. The poster I responded to on the other hand.....

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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #90
98. So,
YOU get to decide who has credibility on DU? Is that a self-appointed position or were you elected or appointed to it?

That poster you responded to has every bit as much right to express an opinion as you or the OP or any other member of DU.

I realize there are some here who just want the rest of us to shut up/go away, and will use every weapon in their arsenals to make it happen. I seriously doubt it's going to work. If anything, it just makes us more determined to exercise our right to express our opinions.

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #98
112. Yeah, and Nance has a right to express her opinion.
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #112
115. Thank you.
That's exactly what I said in the post you responded to. Nice to see we can agree on something.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #98
135. They have a right to post and I have a right to decide whether it's credible or not.
If you feel the need to claim victim here and say you are being silenced, by all means hit the alert button. Skinner has made it clear that any and all substantive criticism be allowed here. Keyword: substantive. Those that have never shown one iota of support for Obama shouldn't be surprised to have their motives questioned. Especially after eight long years of real dumbfuckery.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #90
219. "Credibility" does not mean what you think it means....
Let me guess, only you get to decide what "constructive" means. Right?


I don't think you fully comprehend the level of projection in your post.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #219
221. "Guessing" isn't reading. It's a very bad habit. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #221
225. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #70
144. .
:rofl:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 02:41 AM
Response to Original message
56. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Splinter Cell Donating Member (498 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
57. AMEN SISTER!
Best post I've seen in ages!! :toast:
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #57
117. Yep. Very like a holy roller church.
Long on spirit and short on facts. Big on blind faith and very small on substance.

By your deeds shall you be known. Try that one.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
59. Let the church say, Amen!
Edited on Thu May-27-10 03:52 AM by Number23
Damn. Where's my church fan??!

Edit: And Nance, you know you're going to catch shit from Teh Usualz for spelling "color" with a "u" don't you?? :)
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
60. This should be at the top of the GREATEST PAGE. It's a shame so many unrecs... I estimate
160 of them (about 75% of whom have not and never will accept Kucinich's defeat).
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #60
67. Maybe some here who are recommending this thread - could pause and consider ...
in a PRAGMATIC way, why so many "average intellect Americans" are truly disgusted with the lack of progressive action by our political leaders?

We can't ALL be republican moles. :shrug:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #67
97. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #97
105. Given the discontent here, do you honestly believe 80% of FDR, not new democratic, LIBERALS
are pleased with the actions of this Administration?
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BklnDem75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #105
126. Only the insane would think the feelings of DU
is in line with the majority of Democrats in this country. We represent the fringe and I thank God for that everyday.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #126
263. Really? EVERY day?
:rofl:
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BklnDem75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #263
269. LOL!!!
Yes
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #97
120. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #120
125. ...and there you have it.
Joining you....:eyes:
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #125
132. We could laugh it weren't so effing lame.
As it is, :eyes: is all we can muster.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #120
127.  CAN I BORROW YOUR PEARLS!1!1!! I AM OUTRAGED111!!
:hi:
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #127
131. Which set do you want? The antique pearls handed down from
generation to generation or the giant ones my husband gave me as a little stocking stuffer at Christmas? For you, I think the giant ones would make a more obvious statement. You know, so rich that even your daytime jewelry is fucking HUGE. They go really well with lattes in the morning.

:hi:
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #131
142. hmm, private school lattes..... yum
;)
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
61. What is his real base?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 04:55 AM
Response to Original message
62. "while sportin' a rack that would make Pamela Anderson cry"
:rofl:

Another great rant, Nance! :toast:
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
63. k & r
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
69. New name for DU, Administration Underground....our motto..
"HE can do no wrong". Just the way you want it Nance.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #69
156. never has that ever been said... by anyone one here. it's the biggest strawman, and used on a daily
Edited on Thu May-27-10 01:14 PM by dionysus
basis.

people have the right to complain, and other people have a right to call out bullshit complaints.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #69
184. Apparently some here think HE can do no right. Which was the
whole point of the OP.

He has already accomplished more than any other President since FDR. But that still isn't good enough. And many of the criticisms are just as contradictory as Nance points out. It's obvious many of his critics are just looking for any excuse.

That being said, I do believe he deserves some criticism. But any honest criticism just gets lost in all the noise of the unjustified criticism.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:25 AM
Response to Original message
71. Thank you, Nance.
Job well done in summarizing the absolute stupidity of tantrummers. People need to stop yelling and devote some of the oxygen they are sucking up to thinking about solutions and working on them...in all arenas. If we end up with Palin or some other such RWnut in the WH with another rubberstamp legislative branch filled with teabaggers, I will place the blame squarely where it belongs--on the so-called, self-identified "progressive" left who now appears to be working with the teabaggers to make certain that this happens. I firmly believe the President is doing the best possible job he can do within the scope of the law in spite of those on the left and right who do everthing possible to thwart progress in any area.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #71
73. Forgive me..
Edited on Thu May-27-10 06:55 AM by girl gone mad
but among dozens of other activists, I fought to the point of absolute exhaustion to make certain the administration was aware that there were better options for handling our economic crisis than bailing out Wall Street to the tune of tens of trillions of unfettered dollars.

Thousands of pages of information were made available, meetings were arranged. Now the White House is simply lying about what they were told by economists.

To be accused of not having solutions at this stage is utterly absurd.

Many, many people spent years of their life working on financial reform provisions, only to have the White House set their COS out to make certain these ideas were killed.

I have heard from reliable sources that it virtually the same story on the health care bill fiasco.

There is no shortage of solutions. Genuine, incredibly detailed, impeccably logical, unquestionably sound solutions have been offered up for every one of the crises we currently face. No, the problem is certainly not an absence of answers. To paraphrase, someone is out to do everything possible to thwart progress in any area. It isn't progressive critics.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #73
78. You know, I think this would be a good place to point out that
the myriad of solutions for any of these problems come from a myriad of people. That there are many viewpoints in this nation split among millions of people who also are citizens. I have yet to be given proof that it is the WH who is thwarting progress and does it follow that, if your idea doesn't make it to the final list, it has been "killed." I do believe that there are moneyed interest groups who have successfully bought legislators, and that cleaning up the cesspool that is Congress should be the priority. This is where laws are made and where they must be changed. It is an abyss into which shouts don't echo but just die. Only so much can be accomplished with executive orders.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #78
216. When you have 4 Nobel Prize winning economists all offering up the same solution..
it's patently ridiculous to say these are just a few of the millions of viewpoints out there and they didn't make the cut in all the myriad of opinions.

Come on! The administration made a choice here. They chose to ignore the best advice from the smartest economists in the world and listen to a bunch of insider crooks instead.

Now they want to play this hoocoodanode game? Save it. They were warned.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #73
238. +

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
72. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
74. BP isn't his fault...but do I have to read an unequivocal defense of him about it?
is that really accurate?

is it even appropriate?

i like Obama a lot, but this part has not been impressive...unless there was not a whole lot he could do anyway --which may be the case and which would mean there's no reason to defend his actions.

i kind of had slightly higher hopes.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
76. behind him on his moves to expand offshore oil drilling?
you said all the way.

nobody needs to sell their soul to support Obama, but if you're a Democrat and an environmentalist and you suddenly supported offshore oil drilling because Obama supported it (even if mostly rhetorically)...well then you have sold your soul.

and the funny thing about it is this:

his rhetoric wasn't intended to convince you or me...we know better. it was to steal a few opinion percentage points from the know-nothing middle and a few convincable Republicans.

anybody who understands the game knows liberals weren't expected to support it...but those who did looked kind of duplicitous, or not very bright --and that was before the BP disaster.

sorry supporting him all the way is NOT why I worked for him in 2008.
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #76
84. Not to mention:
Patriot Act, killing US citizens without benefit of trial, etc, etc.

Behind him all the way? God forbid!
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #76
86. ...and if you're against something just because it's a democratic position to be so then?!
Edited on Thu May-27-10 08:05 AM by uponit7771
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #86
88. name one thing I'm against because it's a Democratic position
:wtf:
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 07:13 AM
Response to Original message
79. Well said as usual, Nance n/t

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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
83. AMEN!!! K&R
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
85. Well said!
:thumbsup: and recommended.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #85
87. Did the left treat Carter this way?!
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #87
94. Sadly, I have little doubt there were some even then...
calling him 'weak', 'ineffective' etc, etc, etc. The good news is then AND now they are actually a very small albeit very loquacious group.
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Seneca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #94
148. Ironic that you have a Ted Kennedy avatar
Kennedy was Carter's leading critic from the left, which is why he challenged the incumbent president during the 1980 primaries.

So I suppose you could say that Kennedy was just part of a very small albeit very loquacious group.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #148
178. Both my avatar and my sig line are there for a reason...
Unlike some, I do not eternally condemn anyone for having made a few mistakes in their lives especially when the totality of their good works FAR outweighs those mistakes.

Unlike the 'loquacious' group to whom I made reference, Senator Kennedy did not disparage President Carter from the moment Senator Kennedy lost the nomination to the day President Carter lost his bid for re-election.

It is quite sad your post indicates a lack of understanding of that premise.

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Seneca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #178
186. If you say so
I was mildly amused by the irony. I don't see anywhere in my gently wry observational post about you eternally condemning anyone or any such nonsense. But I humbly bow before your infinite moral superiority and towering intellect over my incredibly stunted ignorance and overbearing naivete. I stand corrected!
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #186
218. LOL... zing!
;-)
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Seneca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #218
256. I was being sincere
When I am wrong, I am wrong.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #186
224. Aww, it seems I hit a sore spot....
now that IS mildly amusing!
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Seneca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #224
255. Your user name is apt
I'll give you that.
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Seneca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #87
150. Yes
Carter has expressed more than once, in more than one of his various memoirs, that he had more problems with the left wing of the Democratic party in Congress than he did with some of the conservative Republicans. Ted Kennedy was his leading Democratic critic in Congress, and took his fight all the way to the 1980 primaries.
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
89. Adamantly disagree, but I understand the need for self-expression in
the face of all aridity. The book is closing on Obama. Catchy prologue, but not much of a denouement.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #89
114. The book is not closing on President Obama.
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #114
118. Who?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #118
119. So much ignorance on the internet.
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icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #119
121. Well, go back to the telephone then....
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
91. Instead of grocery-listing all the good stuff at work in a piece of
this caliber I'm just going to pick one item -- the sheer bravery.

You offer thoughtful support for this president and national polling supports your claims of his deserving it. In times past, before the rise of hate-hosts spewing as much toxic rhetoric across the air waves as the BP well is spewing crude oil into the Gulf, people tended to rally behind U.S. presidents in times of national crises. The climate for that support has changed -- and so has the skin color of the president in this case. Someone should ask the Tea Baggers if they think there's a connection between rallying and race.

Hell, Nance. This is at least as good as your other stuff and your other stuff kicks butt.

But I like the bravery best of all.

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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
92. How do you expect a democracy to work, exactly?
You're going to have to accept that people are going to have legitimate concerns about policy decisions made by this administration, or delays or nondecisions.

Its part of being in a democracy.

If however, you (meaning anyone) are an adherent to a cult of personality, and view everything through that lens, then you're going to misinterpret every concern or criticism as against the personality instead of against the decision.

you may want to take a breath, and try to review what is actually going on here.

When you (you meaning anyone) point and shout "OBamahater" like invasion of the body snatchers without engaging your critical thinking and deciding if the other person has a a valid point, then you just start to look like a bunch of pod people. Pod people is what this country had under Bush. Some of us will never be pod people, no matter who is president.

the sixties taught me to question authority. That means to use critical judgement to decide if what they are doing is the right or best thing.
If we just blindly follow any leader, we teach not to lead, but to do what is simply barely adequate.

thanks for listening

But this is just a better veiled STFU thread, I"m not fooled

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
93. Deleted message
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
95. Nail. Hammer. Head. n/t
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. when you carry only a hammer, everything looks like a nail, to you.
famous proverb, and fitting in this instance.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
99. Deleted message
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
100. Well, OK! I call that really good writing. NT
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
101. It's like Molly Ivins and Chris Crocker had a baby.... n/t
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
103. I don't come to DU much anymore, but
when I do I like to read NanceGreggs. K&R for an authentic voice.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #103
110. Miss you. :)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
106. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
108. Deleted message
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
109. Sigh. Another much-deserved unrec. Straw-man argument, poorly played.
You can do better.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
113. Deleted sub-thread
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
116. Thanks Nance
appreciate the POV. Appreciate your opinion. For those wanting an *opinion* to result in some sort of resolution to a problem, all I can say is, "WTF?". Everytime I or Nance or anyone else states a personal thought or opinion it's supposed to also fix something? Is that right? Isn't that a strawman?

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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
122. K&Flippin'R.
:kick:
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Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
129. Sometimes I think you only dislike Fox News because they're Republican
The reason I say that is because your style and theirs are very similar. Mischaracterization of opponents, towering strawmen, painting opposition as irrational extremists, grouping together of many disparate groups in order to create The Enemy to be railed against, declarations of blind, obedient allegiance, italics where Glenn Beck's tears would be - all the basic Fox features are present. Now I'm wondering if the eternal focus on Beck, Hannity, Rush, etc. is really just a form of professional jealousy.

Here's my question to you, if everyone who doesn't believe as you do is such an idiot - especially people on internet message boards, where, uhm, you are - why not educate them? Why these trite, over-cliched, smugly condescending, passive aggressive bromides that merely assert superiority without ever actually bothering to exhibit it?

Why not tackle the particulars of policy instead of asserting everyone's an idiot, with a knowing nod to yourself that you, obviously, are not an idiot like everyone else. Why not engage in a discussion instead of treating everyone like an audience? Is it a lack of knowledge on the subjects? As a gay man, I know. It's crazy easy for straight people to have general opinions about LGBT issues, endlessly opine about the general and meta arguments, and never ever get too concerned about the particulars. Man, people really don't care about the particulars or constructing a fact-based argument on LGBT issues. Because generalized sentiment is so much easier and cost-free.

Fix the entire financial system? No, but how about not appointing one of the engineers of the Wall Street shakedown as your Treasury Secretary? Why was that too much to ask? And why do you consider it synonymous with an entire financial overhaul (Which we do desperately need. But I guess, when you're not paying American taxes, it doesn't bother you as much though, huh?). You paint a reasonable request (not putting the crooks in charge) with an unreasonable one (remake all of reality!).

Do you have a full grasp of the financial problems in this country? Not just the bail outs and the derivatives markets, but how current Fed policies allow the large banks to post absurd profits by feeding the government toxic assets, how they loan interest-free money back to the government with interest attached for billions of dollars, how they continue to bet against their own clients and their own recommendations for investment, etc? The problems are deep, they are legion, and the current reforms don't have nearly the teeth needed to fix this mess. Furthermore, the people the administration put in charge of ostensibly cleaning up the mess are asking the bankers how to do it, telling them their plans in advance so the banks can make billions off the government's every move.

If you knew the truth of the situation or were in the slightest bit concerned about it, I assure you, you wouldn't be mocking people furious about the administration's tepid response to the looting of the American treasury and the re-inflation of a bubble that will not bring down AIG or banks or clients this time - but the very solvency of the United States government.

I agree with you on one thing - we do not need Fox News in a time of such deep, dangerous crisis.

So why the fuck spend all of your time emulating them?
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #129
136. The McCarthyites did not fear the communists so much as they envied them. n/t
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #129
137. Now that, people, is good writing.
Cogent and based on actual events instead of criticisms that no one, anywhere, has given (fixing everything on the first day indeed).
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Spheric Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #129
141. Well said. Thanks. /nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #129
146. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #129
158. Thanks, Prism!
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #129
165. You just assailed everything that YOU do in your posts. You realize that dont you?
Edited on Thu May-27-10 01:43 PM by stevenleser
You spent considerable effort berating me for being happy about the end of DADT and trying to characterize that happiness in all sorts of awful ways, and yet you paint someone else as setting up strawmen and arguing like Fox does?

Let me tell ya Prism, I know how the folks at Fox argue. Nance doesnt resemble them at all, but you DEFINITELY have their style down pat.
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Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #165
167. And here we go again
1) It wasn't the end of DADT. Not even close. You didn't read, nor care about the language of the compromise. You were happy about an Obama Accomplishment, which could've been anything at all. You clearly weren't too concerned about DADT, because you didn't seem to know what on earth it was you were posting about.

2) You were just coming off a streak of spending an awful lot of time explaining why obvious homophobia isn't.

3) Before I said a single word in that thread, you made it very clear your "happiness" was really just a "Suck it, Obama haters!" in disguise. So you lied about something you hadn't read to needle people on a message board and were then confused when an LGBTer wasn't too pleased that you were using our lives and equality as your own personal cyber bat of vindictiveness.

This weeping "I was just so happy, and they were so mean to me!" is disingenuous to the extreme. And kind of hilarious. Because if you actually think that in earnest, well, there's clueless privilege and then there's . . . whatever that delusion is.

I will not be polite to people who sit around for hours explaining to LGBTers why homophobia isn't, why getting upset at someone who excuses and dismisses it is the true mean thing, and why aren't they happy with the half measures they're getting?! Amg, the gays were mean to me!! *flounce* (Signed, every privileged heterosexual telling gays to pipe down ever).

Berate? I was just being annoyed. Berate is a few tiers above all that. Don't be so sensitive.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #167
172. yes, his "ungrateful gays" schtick is getting very fucking
Edited on Thu May-27-10 02:11 PM by jonnyblitz
TEDIOUS.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #167
190. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #165
168. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #129
214. Very good response.
I would be shocked if you get a reply. The OP seems to prefer engaging in petty squabbling to substantive debate.
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #129
266. Now THIS, my friends, is a POST!!
"I'm An Apologist, Part Deux"...not so much.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
139. Excellent rant, Nance. You have said what many of us
think. But you say it so much better. K&R
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
140. One of your best Nance!
:fistbump:

I laughed out loud this morning listening to Chuck Todd sound so incredulous that the President hasn't had a press conference in 10 months!!! OMG! All I could think of was the incessant bitching by the media this time last year that he "get off the TV" and "he's on TV too much!" Pat Buchanan was practically crying because he was seeing and hearing too much from the President. Boo hoo.

I'm starting to warm to O'Reilly's idea of stuffing the NBC news staff down the oil well, except I'd go further and include ALL of the MSM, starting with Fox.





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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
143. I find this post non-sensical and somewhat incoherant
and certainly not at all that well-written. It's just another post written in order to rally the troops and marginalize anyone with valid issues about the direction the President is taking us.

To equate those very real qualms and disagreements about things like HCR, Financial Reform, Oil Drilling policies and oversight, Deficit Commissions headed by wingnuts, etc. etc. with the color blue, the placement of the equator, American Idol, demands for cures for every disease and eternal youth and Pamela Anderson's "rack" is just DUMB. But I guess many find it clever.

De gustibus non est disputandum.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #143
149. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
145. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
152. Proud UNREC
:thumbsdown:
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ColesCountyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
153. PROUDLY reccomended!
Thank you!

:toast:
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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
154. Nance I love your rants.
Folks don't know the definition of a rant, therefore they wanna shout you down with "poor writing" and the lovely "straw man". I love that folks are still seeing what he is and has done instead of everything in the world that he hasn't done. Keep ranting Nance, I love to read you when I visit. I have to hold my nose and wade through all of the crap, it is nice to the rose sticking out of the muck. And you fine lady are that rose.
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JimWis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
159. K&R
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
160. I hope this rant isn't directed against DUers who criticize Obama
"On your first day in office, you should have overhauled the entire legal system, financial system, education system, healthcare system, rooted-out and fired every incompetent person with a government job, repealed DADT, saved the country from the looming economic crisis, rebuilt the crumbling infrastructure, investigated every government department and made whatever changes were necessary, re-established respect for our nation with every foreign leader and their people, put every American back to work, solved the immigration problem, fixed the mortgage crisis, reversed global warming..."

That statement is so far from anything that I've ever heard a DUer say, that even as a parody it would be grossly unfair. I agree that it could apply to a lot of teapartyers, but it has no resemblence to anything I've seen on DU.

Take the last item, for example -- global warming. There was widespread agreement among climate scientists that the Copenhagen conference, which many considered the last best chance to do something about global warming before it's too late, ended in near total failure. The accord that the 30 leading countries agreed upon dropped the goal of 80% greenhouse gas reduction by 2050 and made no mention of a mid-term goal in greenhouse gas reduction, despite the fact that scientists say greenhouse gas emissions must be cut 80% from 1990 levels by 2050 to avoid catastrophe. It retained a (non-binding) commitment to reducing global temperatures by 2050, but contained no concrete plans for achieving that goal. Markus Becker summed up how most climate scientists assess what happened:

The global climate summit in Copenhagen has failed... There will be no concrete goals for reducing greenhouse gas emissions. Industrialized countries extended no concrete offers of hope to developing countries… Many countries almost immediately tore to shreds the compromise plan that the group of 30 countries presented in the main hall. Those countries that could face destruction as a result of climate change, in particular, could not see any solutions in it. Now we are faced with the threat of an impasse in global climate politics. And the consequences of this holdup will primarily be felt by the poorest of the poor. Experts anticipate that they will be subjected to storms and flooding stronger than ever before. Their crops will wither. Melting glaciers might deprive several million people of their water supplies and deprive them of their livelihoods.

Later, the United States committed to a 4% reduction in greenhouse gas emission from 1990 levels by 2020 – a puny and laughable gesture compared to 80% reduction by 2050 that climate scientists say is necessary in order to avoid catastrophe.

An article in the Guardian by Suzanne Goldenberg, titled “Barack Obama’s Speech Disappoints and Fuels Frustration at Copenhagen”, summarizes the disappointment over the lack of U.S. leadership felt by much of the world:

Barack Obama stepped into the chaotic final hours of the Copenhagen summit today saying he was convinced the world could act "boldly and decisively" on climate change. But his speech offered no indication America was ready to embrace bold measures, after world leaders had been working desperately against the clock to try to paper over an agreement to prevent two years of wasted effort – and a 10-day meeting – from ending in total collapse.


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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #160
174. of course it is.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #160
207. Who else would read it?
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yowzayowzayowza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #160
246. "Cried 'Superbe! Magnifique!'" n/t
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
162. Loving it!
K+R :patriot: :applause: :yourock:
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
163. Kick,kick,kick &recommend!
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
164. K&R
Beautiful, as always!
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
166. The Prez is not alone....he can call on any of the thousands
who serve at his pleasure. Those folks should have, by now, become the best persons for the slot they occupy. Beyond that, he can call upon the best science and equipment from around the world. That's called delegating authority. That"s how the best corporations used to work before the rules were dropped into the insanity hole. Unfortunately by keeping *'s teams and policy nearly in tact, many incompetents, he has few in his government to turn to; And taking the least costly route, to boot, the levee's and pumps are in serious question, with the hurricane season just upon us....still and once again. Opening up drilling in the gulf, without even minimal backup systems, was a shortsighted and monumentally stupid and reckless mistake. Why has Canada learned and we have not? You did mention all the things he should be working to accomplish, but, for the most part, he has chosen an opposite route, veering sharply to the right. That first day ruse was a bit disconcerting. Disclaimer: Normally I am in awe of your posts.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
171. Sweet, another posting that Obama not accept ca$h only credit
Can't have that buck looking longingly toward his desk.

Nice bunch of mocking, excuse making, wiping, insults, dangling, and buck ducking there Nance.
You've become snide when you used to seem wise.
You seem dismissive when you used to be someone that bridged gaps.
You seem to have become arrogant when you used to be humble.
You seemed interested in understanding the thoughts of others but are now preoccupied with stifling dissent.
You used to seem to have a widespread lover of people but now only have concern for the well being of one man.
You always came across as sweet to me irritable and kinda nasty.

If it was me that would be one thing, I'm not very nice politically, but you're better than that.

Okay, in what time frame should structural changes be expected? Do you think Obama can get and handle forty or fifty terms? If he did what trajectory would that set the country on?
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Oldtimeralso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
173. Great Job Nance!
But I need to remind you that even the "birthers" think that the Big Guy had seven days to get everything done.
:fistbump: :thumbsup: :fistbump:
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #173
223. "And on the seventh day, He rested" n/t
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
176. Too cute by halves. All my relations in Houston, Corpus Christi, Pensacola ...
... will really appreciate your genuflecting, once again, before your vision of President Obama -- all facts to the contrary with regard to what his various failures have done to the lives of real people. And I imagine your thoughts would be of great comfort to the families of the 11 men who died in this terrible accident.

What, in a more sane and mature era, used to be seen as a citizen's duty to observe and comment and participate in the affairs of their country is now viewed as a selfish tantrum because they "didn't get their way."

We who are capable of critical thought are aware that Obama inherited a great burden when he took office. But he is going along to get along with the Bush policies he inherited to an alarming degree. True, We, the Little People can't know the details of President Obama's challenges, but this we know: We elected him with an assumption that he would step up to the plate and offer leadership -- something sorely missing in the eight years before he took office. The People have never in history had all the details of what was going on in the White House, but we expected a government with concern for the welfare of the populace, and a President with the skills and will to take action without waiting for the electorate to "make him do it."

This article is allegedly about the injustice of blaming President Obama for something he couldn't personally control, and leans on legalities to excuse the actions, or lack thereof, of BP, while doing precious little to address the tragedy, itself. Instead, once again, members of DU are admonished by Nance Greggs for having the audacity to cry out that action should have been taken right at the beginning of this incident. Obama is not expected to personally cap the leak. But he has the greatest powers at his fingertips of any living human being, and could have taken a more aggressive role in calling in every possible resource -- and BP's *rights* be damned. BP will live on in grand style. The Gulf region will suffer in a multitude of ways for decades to come. It may never recover.

So go on worshipping Barack Obama, Nance Greggs, but consider the appropriatenss of your admonishing others when they express intelligent concerns and criticisms of what is going on in *their world*!

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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #176
192. Same old talking points ...
Supporting Obama equals worship.

It couldn't possibly be that people are satisfied with the job he's doing - and, if they are, they don't understand what's really going on.

Calling on people to put some facts behind their criticism - well, that's just another STFU post.

Pointing out that there are legalities involved here - yep, that's standing up for BP's rights and excusing their actions.

In the past few weeks, we've had a new talking point introduced: People who aren't criticizing Obama's handling of this situation just don't care about those affected by it, the environment, etc. Yeppurs.

What I find ironic is that those who criticize every God-damned thing this president does accuse his supporters of "lock-stepping" - and those critics, for the most part, all say exactly the same things at exactly the same time, very often using exactly the same words and phrases.

But that's not lock-stepping - it's just an amazing coincidence.
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #192
210. The amazing coincidence is that they are all in response to yet another ...
... Nance Greggs diatribe on how disingenuous are the comments of those who logically and with intelligence question Obama's policies.

What we have here is a failure to communicate, a circular firing squad, a pointless exercise in attempting to introduce the idea into this latest post -- which assumes to chastise those who have concerns about such "talking points" as The Patriot Act, *real* healthcare reform, *real* financial reform, the assault against our precious ecosystems (without which life on the planet will be seriously degraded) -- that criticism of what our government is doing, and particularly of he who is expected to lead, is an act of good conscience, rather than being somehow worthy of ridicule and censure.

(Anyone who gets through that long, rambling sentence above gets a pony!)

"The Law" allowed BP to get by with *not* using certain precautions which other, sane countries require before such a drilling operation can take place as this disastrous one we're talking about. "The Law" stood in the way of freedom for the Colonies back in the day, and they saw fit to use their silly little noggins to determine that following the law would lead to fewer and fewer freedoms and growing desperation as to the quality of their lives.

Sometimes, Nance, standing outside the warm circle of cheering supporters is an ethical and intelligent thing to do. I think that as long as you continue to issue edicts chastising people for SOMETIMES seeing Mr. Obama and his policies as detrimental to our country, you will continue to see those pesky "talking points" cropping up in your posts. I certainly hope so.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #210
232. I got through that sentence ...
... when can I expect my pony? ;-)

You are arguing facts not in evidence (I know you know what that means.)

I did not assume to to chastise those who have concerns about ... In fact, I'm not chastising anyone.

What I am doing in this post is pointing out that there is a certain faction that complain about this president no matter what he says or does. If he gives a speech on something, he's "just words". If he doesn't speak to something, he's "hiding something", or is berated for NOT speaking.

If something positive is accomplished in one area, there are those who immediately say, "Well, if he could do THAT, why couldn't he have done THIS instead?" But, of course, if he did THIS, he would be damned for not having done THAT.

I am often accused of blindly supporting Obama - as though I agree with everything he does, every decision he has made (or will make), his every position.

I don't. But overall, given the task at hand, I am satisfied with his performance as POTUS. And I am tired of people assuming that supporting this presidency overall is to be viewed as supporting every individual move, down to the smallest detail.

The law is the law (and again, you of all people know that). Is every law on the books fair, just, honest, for the betterment of American society? Of course not. But that doesn't change the fact that it is what it is - and it can't be dismissed, nor changed overnight, by this president or any other.

It seems that a lot of the same people who decried W's over-stepping of the law are now decrying the fact that the present president isn't "over-stepping", or dismissing the law entirely. Eight years of a dismissive "cowboy" in the WH was enough for me - and I don't think having another one in office (even if he dismisses the laws I don't agree with) is any better.

I can't speak for the vast majority here - but I believe that what a lot of us are fed up with is the people who complain no matter what - and I think you know what I mean, and who they are.

I have a great deal of respect for many posters here who, although we may disagree politically, say, "I hate what Obama did here, but I have to give him props for what he did there."

However, those who find something to complain about in every decision, every move, every statement, every choice of words are lock-stepping - and being that it's in the opposite direction doesn't change what it is.

Those who constantly accuse anyone of supporting this president as being kool-aid drinkers might want to consider that being a rabid anti-Kool-aid drinker is a matter of downing Kool-Aide as well - just a different flavour.

You've said ... as long as you continue to issue edicts chastising people for SOMETIMES seeing Mr. Obama and his policies as detrimental to our country .... I note you put the emphasis on "SOMETIMES".

I have no problem with the "sometimes" - it's the "all the time" that I DO have a problem with. And it is to those people this post was addressed.


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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #232
244. Sorry, Nance, your OP was an opinion piece, not composed of ...
... anything that would rise to the level of material that could be introduced in court as fact.

"The law is the law..." Oh, really? The law, as we saw in Bush v. Gore, is completely malleable and the plaything of corporate and monied interests. The idea of law as a guiding principle based on the highest truth (if that could really be ascertained) is inspiring, but history has shown us that "the law" is all too often what human beings, from juries to Supreme Court justices, decide it is. And there is no reliable consistency from one scenario to another.

There are total purists on both the right and the left. Certainly in every online forum there are people who "get off" on just causing disruptions. But you seem not to realize that the tenor of a lot of your messages begins with a "school marm's" tone which suggests that people with reasonable and thoughtful criticisms of Obama are somehow not quite as evolved politically as you are.

Too bad, because your lecturing tone obscures the message you are attempting to deliver with humor and originality. I'm sure you can find "literary" criticism elsewhere which diverges from my opinion, but since this is a public board, and because our country is in great jeopardy, this is not a time for meekness and shoulder shrugging. We need strength in our political leaders, and it's in very short supply.

And as to "sometimes," I don't think it's possible to know, when dialoguing with one person, or a group such as DU, whether anyone is balancing their opinions about Obama in a given post or in general. I strongly want to feel better about our President than I do. I fear he is a candle that is burning less and less brightly. I can't know the pressures on the man which may be keeping him from doing things he may want to do and cannot. But he took the job, just as my father hoisted a rifle and fought in WWII in Europe. Playing it safe in an attempt to achieve bipartisan harmony never had a chance, and many of us saw that. But we gave him a chance, and now we see the fruits of that fantasy.

Your pony is stabled in Santa Fe. You have to come home for a visit to cash in your claim check. (I perfectly honor your right to speak about your country from outside it. Staying away for a time doesn't turn you into a furriner.)

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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #244
253. Of course my OP was an opinion piece!
(They all are!)

My reference to the law was in response to the notion (widely held by some here) that Obama should have simply seized BP's equipment, bank accounts, etc. - in other words, acted like Cowboy W without any regard to domestic and international law, treaties in place, and so on.

I agree that it is not possible to gauge anyone's opinion on a message board based on one post, or even several. But when someone consistently posts only negative things, day-in, day-out, it becomes impossible NOT to notice.

I won't disagree with the assessment that I sometimes come off as "lecturing". I often adopt that tone in response to being constantly lectured myself - by people who insist that because I support this presidency, I obviously don't grasp the situation, don't understand how wrong-headed Obama is, am totally misinformed, yadda yadda.

I realize that the lecturers don't like being lectured - which is exactly why I do it.

I get fed up - as do many here. And sometimes a dose of one's own medicine is more than called for.

If my pony is chilly down there in Santa Fe, you can send him up here - where it is currently a brazillion degrees here in the Great Frozen North - only hotter.

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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #253
272. Your pony has his feathers ruffled down here in Santa Fe.
Owing to the global warming and climate change that isn't happening, we have had the worst wind in decades for months now. And it *is* chilly. We keep thinking spring/summer are going to arrive, and we're still turning on the fireplace at night.

As to international treaties, etc., we, the U.S. of A., don't want to be seen as bullies any more than we already are. But good legal minds are saying that Obama has had the right all along to declare a national emergency and take care of the American people who inhabit the Gulf and are seeing their very lives/livelihood taken away by the unconscionable failure to take known precautions to prevent this disaster on the part of BP.

Many scientific experts have outlined a number of things that could have been done right away, instead of waiting a month to do more than diddling while the Gulf "burned." Harry Truman had it right: "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." To paraphrase, "If you can't take offensive action, rather than hanging back in defense, then find someone who can." This is New Orleans Redux, and much worse, and as a country we are pathetically slow to do the things we used to do -- like going to the moon and rescuing our citizens in times of peril -- whether through natural disasters or other issues.

Deferring to the legal rights of BP (which could be argued in court for centuries)is literally delivering a death blow to ecosystems and livelihoods in the Gulf area, and there will be far-reaching ramifications for it all. Mr. Obama wanted the job. He has it. He is not personally responsible for figuring the whole problem out, but he is too in thrall to corporate interests for my taste. I'm disappointed. I hoped for a more energetic stance from him on a multitude of issues.

So, now, are we America the Beautiful, or are we a colony in the Corporate State of BP?

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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #272
275. ...
Being as you work in the legal biz, as do I, we both know the story of the "dueling experts".

For every "good legal mind" and "scientific expert" who states that more could have been done, or things could have been handled better, there is another mind/expert who would refute it. We both know how that goes.

Here's the truth of the matter - and I think it's something we can both agree on.

You're assuming the worst (Obama "diddled around" and did nothing at the start of this mess). I am assuming the best (he was on it from minute one, and did whatever was necessary).

But what it comes down to is we are both going on assumptions - neither of us are WH insiders, who have seen what was done, what could have been done that wasn't, etc.

And the truth is that we will probably never know what happened (or didn't happen) behind the scenes.

What I find particularly troubling is this: This disaster is the living, breathing, no-wiggle-room, proof-positive - not of what could happen, but of what has happened as a result of off-shore drilling. This is no longer a what-if scenario - the facts are in - and the consequences of those facts are devastating.

This catastrophe is the biggest weapon ever placed in the hands of the environmentalists who have been dreading the worst - and are now seeing that "worst" happen, along with the rest of the world.

What troubles me greatly is that that weapon is being used to bludgeon Obama, rather than bludgeon the people responsible. There is more outrage being expressed, here and elsewhere, against this administration than is being expressed against BP - and a quick perusal of current posts here bears that out.

"Divide and conquer" has oft been raised as a right-wing strategy that works time and again. And it is sad to see it happening now - to see RW rhetoric and MSM talking points not only being regurgitated, but embraced as fact.

All of that being said, I hope all is well with you and yours. You can't imagine what I wouldn't give to have to turn on the fireplace in search of warmth!

Even though we all know that Global Warming is a myth - our lilac bushes bloomed a month earlier than usual. And the Wild Mulberry tree in the backyard - which usually doesn't even bud until mid to late June, was in full leaf two weeks ago.

Hang in there - I'm sure your longed-for summer weather will be that much sweeter when it finally arrives, and you will enjoy it immensely when it does. It's just too bad that these "global warming theorists" are somehow managing to alter the weather in order to prove their non-existent point.





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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #275
281. Caveat: I am not a Legal Eagle, nor have I played one on TV...
I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

With that said...I do know some things about Business Law, having just taken a couple of courses on it.

When the BP manager overrode the TransOcean engineer, he took responsibility for all that happened after the fact. By being in a position to make such a decision, either this individual was an officer or acting under the direct control of an officer, regardless, they are responsible for what transpired and can be held liable for negligence by not using due care, after it became apparent there was a serious problem with the system. As this goes through the various mechanisms of investigation, I can be relatively assured that people further up the line will be held accountable as well.

No law enforcement entity would make charges w/o investigating this fully, and while civil claims are already in the works, I would not be surprised if criminal charges came from this as well.

No matter how cut and dried a case may seem, every case is different, and depending on the judge/jury involved, almost anything can happen in a situation, especially one of this magnitude. PR wise...one "oh shit", wipes out 1000 "atta boys". BP hit it's "oh shit" moment and they are seen as evil incarnate, (rightfully so IMO).

It does appear that at every turn, regardless of where the fault lies, PO gets blamed for everything that goes wrong, but rarely, if ever gets a hint of praise when things go right. What could he have done to rectify the situation? The CG was there almost immediately, the extent of the problem was/is being covered up by BP, and many thought that since BP is in this business they should know what to do. It has become apparent that at least at the management level, all they care about is petro-dollars and will do anything to keep the inflow of cash at a rate they are used to. The role of the CG is to command and control, they do not have the resources to deal with a spill of this magnitude, unfortunately, neither does anyone else, so to blame the president for any of this is. It is BP's mess, and their responsibility to clean it up, the governemnt has the obligation to provide what it can to aid in the sealing of the wellhead and cleanup, and they have done what they could. One thing is, PO could declare this a disaster, thereby opening a slew of opportunities for the people harmed by this situation. Why he hasn't done so is a question I have as well.

The one thing that should be noted above all else, is that BP holds responsibility for what happened, and they need to be held accountable for their actions throughout this situation. The MMS, many of them bush cronies left over from that Dark Age need to be investigated as well. Who oversaw, (or was to oversee), the paperwork that went along with all of the permits, tests and other assorted items that go along with type of operation? The deeper the investigations go, the more realistic view we will have on just how this disaster came about.

As for the cleanup. Getting the oil foo and out of the water is one thing, but I don't know how they will deal with the wetlands, and those must be dealt with, or our brothers and sister in LA are in for some serious tragedy imposed upon an already tragic event.

I'd like to see the oil off the water before everyone who smells blood in the water has their way.



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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #275
282. "But what it comes down to is we are both going on assumptions ...
... neither of us are WH insiders, who have seen what was done, what could have been done that wasn't, etc."

Given that hypothetical (I don't consider it entirely accurate), the better position in your OP would have been a neutral position, rather than another post defending Obama in this matter without any real knowledge of how he has or has not handled the situation, and minus another "I didn't get my way, so I'm taking my toys and going home" kind of theme against those who would critize the "king."

There are legal and scientific experts in their numbers who are criticizing what Obama has failed to do, and they don't require being a White House insider to know whereof they speak. And waiting for court to adjourn in the matter is a fool's mission. Before The Law speaks, unspeakable damage will have been done to our land and our people.

Phillipe Cousteau basically says it's all too little, too late with regard to actions taken, so far, and no one is really taking charge of the situation.

It would seem that BP's claim to treaty rights ended when they basically breached their ethical responsibility to see that they were prepared to handle such an accident.

Greg Palast has an article about BP's *other* oil spill this week:

http://blog.buzzflash.com/contributors/3238

American citizens criticizing BP can expect little for their efforts. American citizens demanding that our President show the needed leadership to protect our territory and our citizenry from corporate malfeasance *might* have a better chance for a response. So far, we are becalmed while waiting for the next shoe to drop.

I keep thinking about D-Day, and General Eisenhower in charge of an undertaking fraught with peril. This isn't that kind of war, it's true, but that kind of leadership is much needed, and very much not in evidence. We can't know all the inner workings of White House protocol, but when there is mostly silence, it's easy to intuit that not much is happening.

Your humor with regard to global warming is much appreciated.





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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #282
284. You seem to have missed the entire point of my OP ...
It wasn't written as a defence of Obama's actions (or non-actions, as you would have it).

It was written to point out how some people (posters here, as well as in the general populace) continue to demand contradictory things of this president, and then complain when he doesn't, in their assessment, comply.

I was prompted by reading the many threads on the BP topic, wherein people were asked what specific things Obama should be doing, but was not. Some of the responses were downright hilarious: He should send all of the BP folks packin', and get people in there who know how to stop this leak!" Of course, when asked "what people", the responses came back as, "You know, guys who know how to fix this" - as though there were people milling around who know how to stop a leak of these proportions, and they just weren't being allowed to do so.

In some cases, posters contradicted their own positions from one thread to another; e.g. "He should be on TV every few hours, to apprise us of what's going on," and then, "He shouldn't be wasting time on TV, but doing whatever is necessary behind the scenes." "He should be in the Gulf, showing that he's 'engaged'." "If he shows up in the Gulf, it'll prove he's only interested in a photo-op, instead of being back in DC where he can do the most good."

It's simple: you tell a man to run five miles while not moving at the same time, odds are you're going to be disappointed, one way or the other. And that seems to be the game being played by a lot of people - they want cause for complaint either way.

As for "I didn't get my way, so I'm taking my toys and going home" - that's exactly what I'm talking about. If you want "your way" to be two totally opposite things, or actions that are illegal or completely not feasible, then you're going to go stomping off no matter what - and you've made that clear. (That's a generic 'you', BTW - not you personally.)

Bringing up the concept of "dueling experts" was in no way meant as leaving the courts to have the final say on what was done, or wasn't done. I merely pointed out that for every expert saying one thing, there's another expert who will say the opposite. I've done a lot of trials with pharmaceutical companies - and both sides will produce equally accredited experts who come to court, armed with research data that "proves" completely different outcomes, one from the other.

"We can't know all the inner workings of White House protocol, but when there is mostly silence, it's easy to intuit that not much is happening." Based on the same facts, one could just as easily intuit that too much is happening to keep making public pronouncements about each detail as the story unfolds.

Some global warming humour (if you can call it that): For centuries people have complained that everyone talks about the weather, but no one does anything about it. Well, now corporate polluters actually have done something about - how's that working out for everyone?






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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #284
285. Nance, this is not the first time you've come to a point, after some ...
... exchanges between us, of accusing me of missing the whole point of your OP.

Other posters in this thread -- a minority, for sure -- have similarly seen this OP as yet another diatribe against criticism of Obama. Not everyone who expresses concern and absolute disagreement over Obama's policies is simply disloyal to the Party. There have always been fringe elements, always will be, who get off on the energy of an argument, and I think that is what you are referring to in part of this latest post. But without dissent, we are done.

And without the brightest, most experienced scientific minds on the planet -- no matter what their nationality -- we are in terrible trouble. We already are.

//
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #285
286. I don't disagree with your final statement.
But I think my OP was clear - and I do think most people got the point.

I played off the you're too this, you're too that idea throughout - and the idea that no matter what he does, his constant detractors will insist they wanted something completely the opposite.

A lot of people who read this OP knew precisely the recent threads I was referencing - they'd read them and participated in them. So they knew exactly what I was talking about.

I don't see "expressing concern or disagreement" as disloyalty. But when someone (as many here do) go so far as to disagree with their own positions from one day to the next, or one thread to the next, in order to be on the opposite side of whatever Obama does - well, it becomes apparent that actual "concern or disagreement" is not what they're really expressing.

With that I will say goodnight. Our heat wave has finally broken - it is actually chilly outside tonight. That means moi, a lover of the cold, will have a restful night's sleep for the first time in a week.

I'm sure we'll meet again here - until we do, take care of yourself, and those you love.

And give my pony a hug!

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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #176
242. +1
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
177. Holy hell there's a lot of removed posts on this thread. nt
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racaulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #177
182. I noticed that too. n/t
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #182
188. Do you think it's a record for a thread that hasn't been locked? nt
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #177
185. People are fed up with the bullying. n/t
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #177
191. Yep...she must have touched a nerve.
Perhaps a little too close to home for some.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #191
193. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #191
195. Yep, there's a whole lot of nerves getting "touched" in this thread
And some much deserved and long overdue DU asskickings too...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #195
204. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #191
201. Yep, like the poster you just replied to. nt
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #191
215. That's, honestly, the worst attempt at insight I've seen this year
So I take it that if I walked by you and said that your sister was a prostitute, and you reacted in some negative fashion, that it would be validation of my claim? By your logic any perceived reaction to any claim could be used as proof it's true.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #215
231. If the shoe fits....
I was replying to the volume of "deleted comments" on this thread, as most of them were from those whose reputation for continuous bashing precedes them. People act like no one has ever read anything they've written.

It's quite different if there is overwhelming evidence of "my sister's prostitution."

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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #177
213. Bullshit flamebait tends to bring that about.
But I can tell you, for a fact, that not all the deleted messages violated the rules. I had a post deleted for asking someone to back up the claim that the OP's characterisations of critics was accurate. That's it, and zap.

The OP and her fanbase have some really bad attitudes and for whatever reason it's the reactions that are being deleted.
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
179. Proud unrec
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #179
181. Standard corporatist excuses. Every post is the same. nt
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
180. Nance, are you married? Cause I think I love you!
This was hilarious, and so dead-on. I wish I could recommend it more than just once.

:applause: :yourock:
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
183. Beautifully said, as always.
:thumbsup:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
189. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
truthrocks Donating Member (160 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
194. BEAUTIFULLY STATED, NANCE! THANK YOU!
:yourock:
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Drops_not_Dope Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
197. No, Really
SHILL

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voteearlyvoteoften Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
198. I've been waiting for your latest
Thanks for not disappointing.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
199. Biggest. Strawman. EVER.
And that is very high bar at DU.
:patriot:
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sea_urchin Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
200. Obama's "first day" and "second day" are mentioned in the OP
But today is the 485th day or so. I believe that's why it's being called a strawman.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #200
202. Think God and Biblical, then the first and second day makes more sense.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #202
212. Let there be mandates....
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
203. Write a damn book, Nance--you'd be a very rich woman.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
208. THANK YOU!!! K&R! nt
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
209. Nonsensical straw man argument
Edited on Thu May-27-10 06:07 PM by LittleBlue
We're complaining about stuff like Obama signing individual mandates when he himself campaigned against it (by thrashing Hillary.) You compare that to not doing everything in 2 days?

Wow, just terrible. How can you write this and not be ashamed that you are knowingly misleading people? And it's especially funny watching people who disagree get deleted.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
217. Did you ask for the fire dept permits to erect such massive strawmen?
Edited on Thu May-27-10 06:51 PM by liberation
They are not only a fire hazard, but given the current situation in the gulf, and the use of straw as an oil cleanup material, your post does not only seem like an ode to intellectual dishonesty... but a massive waste of resources.

Cheers.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #217
220. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #220
226. Maybe because your post was full of strawmen arguments. And some people were pointing that fact out?
Given that you answered my post with another strawman, I don't think the irony has yet sink in. Maybe the projection was getting in the way?


Pity, you seem to be a good writer. The substance, however....

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shellgame26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #220
230. It's the buzz-word
to use when something has rubbed them the wrong way and they have no constructive response.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #220
273. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #273
274. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Patriot 76 Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
222. Thanks. I needed that.
K+R
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
228. Unrecd It's interning people w/o trial and ordering assassinations I object to.
Edited on Thu May-27-10 08:25 PM by caseymoz
And prosecuting two futile wars. Everything else I might call a draw, though it doesn't seem much different from what you'd expect from a real compassionate conservative (unlike Dubya).

I plead for you to understand, this is not just a matter of the fact that he isn't solving enough. It's his taking us backward, and not even at a slower rate, that keeps me up at night.
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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
229. Nice to see that the numerous attemtps to shut this thread down have failed
Some people have posted more in this thread than the OP trying to get it locked. Even if they do eventually succeed, their names and truly pitiful tactics (including the ever so clever and effective "Strawman! Strawman!" and "you don't even live in America!") are prominent for everyone to see.
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
234. What Nance said. But louder.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
235. Meh fight with you another week
I'm actually defending this guy this week on the crazy idea the President can fix holes in the ocean.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #235
240. Looking forward to it, AJ! n/t
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #235
247. crazy little strawmen are contagious, apparently

"the crazy idea the President can fix holes in the ocean"

- and who's spouting that crazy idea, except those perpetuating absurd straw man arguments (like you are right now)??


but never fucking mind. it's pretty hopeless.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #247
258. Inna
What the hell do you think the Government can do. We have been outsourcing this kind of an operation for 30 years.

You think the President can just fucking wave a wand and suddenly have resources?

The Coast Guard is for smugglers and sinking ships. The Navy is for launching long range weapons off of a coast at a land based enemy or sea based enemy.

What resource does the government have that they are not putting into the Gulf Area?
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #258
265. He can make sure the EPA has supremacy over BP's corporate decisions
He could have made sure we know how big a problem we have rather than trusting BP. He could make sure every conceivable resource is used to contain and mitigate the damage from the oil spilled.

There is plenty he could have done early and aggressively in many areas other than 'plugging the damn hole'. We may have little chance of success but the not trying isn't acceptable because too damn much is at stake.

Everybody isn't awaiting the end of the world and just watching the fireworks and antics.

Some of us want to try to save as much of the habitat and wildlife as possible.

Some of us want to reduce harm as much as possible.

Many of us don't put much stock into a President using the law as an excuse when the same President thinks he can gainsay the Constitution and order extra-judicial killings of our citizens or Presidents that maintain an Executive military that is prohibited by the Constitution (no he didn't start it but he is obligated to shut it down and depend on the military raised legally by Congress).

The President can mobilize every resource in the nation and has serious influence to mobilize assistance from around the globe. The President with good advice can oversee this kind of operation to ensure that the interests of the environment, wildlife, and our citizens are the primary consideration rather than a corporate bottom line.
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athenasatanjesus Donating Member (592 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
239. I still think he could do better,but I agree he has alot of crap to deal with nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
243. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
orbitalman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
248. A Diamond! nt
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
249. Another dead-on kick ass OP, Nance!
314 responses, 6430 views!

...and another :kick:

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thelordofhell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
251. Give 'em hell Nance!!
I for one am sick of the DDU......Debbie Downer Underground. What's Obama done about the gulf? Oh he's only deployed a shitload of ships and booms and has NOT(thank God in heaven) dumped a nuke in the middle of the gulf floor. The gulf will recover from this spill, it would never recover from a nuke.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
254. Opposite of
strawman.:)

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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #254
257. Haha!!!
Hi, Cha! :hi:

I knew when I posted this, I would be unrecc'd for as far as the eye could see.

And the thing is, I didn't care.

Things being what they are, unrecs are becoming a badge of honour ...
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #257
260. Your reponses hardly indicate that you don't care...nt
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #257
271. In this case the
unrecs are a badge of honor but there are quite a few who get your point and it's not calling for silence.

:hi:Nance:patriot::patriot:
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zenprole Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
259. Nonsense. Obama rode into office on an enormous wave...
of public approval and could have waded into a dozen different policy arenas. If he had actually been interested in change, there couldn't have been a more target-rich political environment. Instead, we're getting what some warned about: empty posturing fronted by grand gestures and a continuation of the damage dating back 30+ years.

The trouble is Obamatrons viewing this corporate servant like he's some sort of miracle worker, and claiming, without a shred of evidence, that he's accomplishing anything for average people. To understand Obama, watch Gibbs, his press secretary. A carefully-parsed stealth Machiavellian is what you're really getting with this president - like giving people pictures of food instead of dinner. Outstanding.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
261. I think the writer has done her job here.
And very well, at that.

The thread pretty clearly demonstrates the crossfire of sensibilities on DU. It demonstrates the sensibilities and the crossfire they engender. That's what forums are. That's what they're for in the first place. This site sanctions a healthy crossfire.

Nance, ya done gotten folks' brain cells all aflutter. Like a great concert in a huge arena -- with Mother Teresa, Johnny Carson, Rachel Carson, Kit Carson, Pee Wee Herman, the Teletubbies, the Keebler elves, Julian Bond, and Ted Nugent all lighting candles for an encore.

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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
264. It's amazing that all these posts are the same, but they're almost never locked. nt
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LittleGirl Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
267. absolutely perfect
Nance.
I sent your rant as a response to one of my libertarian 'friends' after another of his 'I hate Obama' emails to me. I've put it for all to see below. As you can see, he's repeated every damn GOP talking point on Fox and right wing blogs.

...
I am so tired of hearing about Obama. We will see how he handles the upcoming events that this and the other Country's of the world will soon see. No matter really, I think he is a piece of political garbage. No different than the rest. When the dust settles, like Bush, the only real changes that will come are to his address and his personal wealth.

The issue of Change...
Obama utilized ear marks to get his Health Care bill passed. Can it really be such a great thing if the approval votes had to be bought from Government whores?
Where is the Bi-partisan Change?
Obama utilizes closed doors to mask his non-partisan clandestine agendas.
Where is the transparency Change?
The Administration appointees, the bailouts and the funding of non-legit organizations that have been found out to be criminals by their actions?
Where is the Special Interests Change?
The consistent bashing of America and Americans to the Leaders of Country's that are Non-American allies?
Where is the America Pride Change?

I believe that he, Obama, is the equivalent to the political Anti-Christ. He is the most disgusting excuse for a politician that has ever held office. He has done more damage with his decisions than Truman did with the bombing of Japan. In this Country's last Presidential election, it has become evident that he was NOT the best of the bad choices available.

Obama is the most repulsive, self-serving, egotistical, diabolic excuse for a man that has ever graced our Country with regards to our political system. He can stand proudly right next to the rat S.O.B. in Iran. It is becoming so much clearer that he is a liar, a cheat, a deceiver, a thief and a self-admired, self-absorbed messiah to the peasants that SERVE HIM in all that he does.
Nobody truly understands how much he is doing for the lesser population of this Country. Just ask HIM...or one of his SHEEPLE.
Nobody truly understands that he is our only opportunity to become saved from all of the OTHERS mistakes. Just ask HIM...or one of his SHEEPLE.
Nobody truly understands that he is the almighty savior of the populace of this Country, NO, OF THIS WORLD. Just ask HIM...or one of his SHEEPLE.

Isn't OBAMA great in his latest presentation of Presidential Leadership...
Obama, as President, wants to start working on a whole new system of nuclear power...
that will have no way of SAFELY disposing of the waste that is generated by their operations. They also will not have any ABSOLUTE way of protecting them from the whack's that are bent on OUR destruction. Nuclear is not GREEN my friend. What it IS, is the next most PROFITABLE for the operators! What a Leader...

Obama has, as President, ALLOWED BP to continue to do business...
while the worst ecological disaster ever seen on this PLANET continues to grow and continues to spew crude into the WORLDS oceanic eco-system. What a Leader...

OBAMA, as President, has ALLOWED BP to use dispersants...
that will have at least as much of a disastrous impact on the ecological systems. This choice was made just to keep the oil out of the SIGHT of the public, because we are not smart enough to understand the process. What a Leader...
This issue in the Gulf is not just about US fisherman or Resort owners losing their livelihoods. It is about the WORLD losing one of its most necessary SURVIVAL systems. The Gulf of Mexico and the ATLANTIC OCEAN will continue to be impacted by this US disaster. What a Leader...
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
268. The Thomas Bowdler Memorial thread.
No gentle sensibilities ruffled. I get it. I capitulate.

This is possibly the most inciteful, oops! I meant insightful thread I have ever read.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
270. Reminds me of the Repubs after 9/11 talking about REAL Americans and REAL patriots.
Edited on Fri May-28-10 01:48 PM by Forkboy
Personally, I'm pretty sick of anyone thinking they and those like them are the only real anything.
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renate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
276. Dang. I can only recommend threads that were started in the past 24 hours
:(

There should be an exemption to this rule because of the awesomeness of this post. :thumbsup:
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ncteechur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
277. That is the best post on DU in years.
You absolutely nailed it Nancegreggs. Absolutely nailed it.
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ProgressOnTheMove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
278. Some of the best writing out there. A brilliant K&R.
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Diamonique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
283. Bravo, Nance!
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