I'm tired.

[TZ]

I've been a political junkie most of my life, but I'm rapidly getting burned out on talking politics. I'm really not a fan of extremes, and here in particular there seems to be a lot of that. The "Obama and the Dems can do no wrong" extreme and the "Obama and the Dems are teh EVIL" other end. I've always found discussing issues with other Democrats interesting, until lately when the intolerance of dissenting views seems to be so extreme, at least here.
I'm more supportive of Obama than many here though I do understand why many have issues with his policies, particularly the gay community. However, what I'm tired of is being treated with disdain and contempt and treated like my opinion doesn't matter because I don't seem angry enough. Maybe its because unlike many I have a good stable job and am in a good place financially. Maybe I just can't work up the energy to be angry all the time (I've got a chronic illness where I just have to learn to keep myself in balance, and not agitated or it makes my life horrible).

I'm also a pragmatist. I'm more interested in solving problems than making sure a progressive agenda is followed. Does that make me a bad progressive. Maybe. Maybe not. :shrug: I've always thought that the ability to compromise is important in a politician. I also know that politicians are a different breed of animal so I keep my expectations in check about any politico. Hell, I've known for years that politicians usually don't share all my views. I accept that.
But I'm tired of feeling unwelcome in some progressive circles. And I'm tired of both sides thinking its more important to score points in a debate than to discuss issues and work on solving them. I'm still all for telling the republicans that they are idiots (cause 90% of them are) but I'm just burned out on ARGUING with other dems and watching people treat each side as if the other doesn't belong. :(
Flame me as you must, but I think I'm burned out and just wanted to vent....

[OHdem10]

1. Pragmatism is not a problem. It becomes a problem in politics

when Democrats are so pragmatic the country gets more
Republican policies than sticking to Democratic Principles.

[lunatica]

2. I'm sure someone will come along and flame you for being tired

anytime now.

Don't let it get you down. Take a break and go to the Lounge for a while. No one yells at you over there, and if you like dogs and cats you get to see some wonderful photos.

[Mimosa]

3. I understand.

I understand. Do you have CFIDS/FMS or MS?

I shouldn't get as worked up as I do but this BP disaster has me upset and the adrenaline is up.

[TZ]

10. I have a rare bone marrow disease

Where I make too many platelets. But the disease and my meds both produce fatigue. I feel so disconnected from life sometimes..

[Mimosa]

16. TZ, My heart goes out to you.

Being too connected can be stressful.

[ecstatic]

4. I'm tired too and I visit DU less often

I'm also winding down on watching politics on TV. It's not worth it.

[Go2Peace]

5. Most of the infighting on DU is related to a very few prolific posters

I wish the owners would change the rec system and limit the number of OPs per day, it would likely solve a lot of the fighting.

What has happened is that a very few people post prolifically and try to enforce "message discipline". They are on day and night. Since this is supposed to be a "discussion board", other people get upset or offended that the board is being manipulated, so they get their backs up and spend a lot of time "fighting" with those posters. Then everyone is fighting "talking points vs anti talking points".

It can all be attributed to about 20 people. 20 freaking people that pretty much keep an entire site arguing? You would think the mods would get wise to that? :shrug:

I believe there has been an exodus going on of old timers. But new people are coming on pretty fast and it get's clouded. But the community is changing.

[paulk]

26. +1

[CreekDog]

6. I hear you

I burn out on politics from time to time.

That's why I met you guys in the Lounge. At one point during 07/08 runup to the primaries, I had to get away from the constant flamefest in here.

So I went over to the Lounge.

After the health care debate, I was burned out, so I stepped back a bit.

And I hate the straw man approach to posts...yes, it's easier to make the person you're arguing with look stupid by twisting their ideas to make them look as stupid as possible. But it doesn't help anything.

[TZ]

7. I know it's time to back off

Because I'm tearing at people that I like personally like you and raindog in my frustration and anger. I can only hope you guys understand. I don't want to lose friendships over political differences..:(

[CreekDog]

8. the political differences aren't that profound

you just think you are a lot more centrist than we are. :D

:hi:

[Peacetrain]

9. Vent my friend vent..

We should all be able to vent or support who we may.

But just for safetys sake.. I am nailing your shoes to the floor.. ;)

[Phx_Dem]

11. Good post. I agree about pragmatic, problem-solving being

more important than a progressive agenda. I also agree about being sick and tired of all the nastiness and bullshit.

[azmouse]

12. I understand,TZ and feel the same way.

Great post.
Rec'd but it's still at 0.... guess some don't like to hear the truth. I'm sorry.

[politicasista]

13. Weird. A lot of positive threads are being unrecommended n/t

[azmouse]

14. It's par for the course

among those that want to tear this President down.

No good news goes unpunished.

[politicasista]

25. Yep n/t

[racaulk]

15. I totally understand and feel your frustration.

I know it may not seem like it, but I'm in agreement with you on this more than you may realize.

It's totally natural to burn out on something that you're exposed to excessively, and it happens to all of us regardless of what that aggravating factor is -- politics, school, work, etc. Take a break if you need to. Trust me, I've done it and it helps.

:pals:

[Political Tiger]

17. K & R! n/t

[DesertRat]

18. I hear you

:hi:

[Cha]

19. Good Vent!

Thank you for your perspective.

[Laelth]

20. Excellent venting.

When you can, join us in the fight for the direction of the Party and the health of the nation. To many of us, it matters a great deal.

:toast:

:dem:

-Laelth

[NYC_SKP]

21. No flames here, TZ!

I think you speak for more people than you know.

:thumbsup:

Recommended.

[Lerkfish]

32. all I have to say, I guess, is a quote:

Posts that make such characterizations about other posts on this board are, really, against the rules.

Regards,

NYC_SKP, DU Moderator

[SunsetDreams]

33. oh please if you compare this OP to yours that was locked

There is no comparison, but then again you knew that right? You just wanted an opportunity to "get back" at the mod who locked your thread.

[patrice]

22. Me too. Makes me wonder how people think the whole thing works.

I think maybe a lot of people over-simplify what happens on the issues, perhaps naively, perhaps purposefully, thinking all they have to do is win somekind of war and then everything will go their way. So they work at the us-against-them dynamic, some honestly, some with agenda(s) hidden behind pseudonymous actors.

Think this zero-sum polarization out:

If you define things absolutely and abandon those who don't buy into your position, you are in danger of abandoning the bargaining table before everything is on it and, because you've declared the process anathema, none of your issues are going to be included in what goes down amongst those who remain engaged.

Yes, you may have the satisfaction of seeing the whole situation become more and more dysfunctional (because your solutions are not being included), but you are also gambling that when the whole thing destroys itself, yours won't be the dominant position, so you have lost time to having to do the whole process over again. I don't think we have that kind of time.

You need to know everything that can possibly be put on the table and you need to have some input about what that is and you can't do that if you declare everyone involved your enemy and quit to sit on the sidelines while one or the other or both of the factions destroy one another. Neither can you have that input if you're a given. You're ir-relevant if you're out of it and you're ir-relevant if you're in it so completely that you'll accept whatever the deal produces.

Yes, people are going to say that They are just going to string you along, making you think you're part of the negotiation and then discount you once you have fulfilled your function as political threat and it is true that that is possible, but, depending upon what you do and what happens, other things are also possible and, it's damn straight if you quit you're discounted, so you might just as well take a crack at the other possibilities.

[Prism]

23. Progressive solutions *are* the pragmatic ones

It's the status quo that requires endless contortions, material harm of citizens, and limitless corruption to maintain.

What is pragmatic about our convoluted health care system? What is pragmatic about the way Wall Street does business? What is pragmatic about environmental degradation?

Pragmatism implies workable, common sense solutions. There is nothing common sense about the status quo. Objectively speaking, if anyone asked you how a government ought to work, and then had you look at Washington for the first time, you'd probably wonder why 99% of the people weren't running around in open revolution.

This idea that progressive policies are pie in the sky while submitting and compromising to a relentless right-wing is the common sense path is propaganda accepted as self-evident truth. Democrats have internalized this over time, and these compromised, contorted, convoluted policies that perpetuate this country's shift to the Right are the result of it.

I'm more than tired. I'm exhausted. And it isn't just about "talking politics". I'm exhausted because every single thing in my life needs an extra step or twelve to insure the security and well-being of my family because I am a second class citizen.

But I'm also better than tired. I'm stubborn. There's a saying in the LGBT community, when the rest of the world wanted us to go away, just as the Democratic Party and so many of its ardent champions would like us to stop pressuring the administration. That saying is "Silence = Death".

I'll never be tired enough to be silenced, no matter how hard people try. People want you to be burned out. That's how they beat you. They wear you down through volume, repetition, message discipline, talking points, appeals to authority, and the illusion that the corrupt status quo is an inevitability.

When they wear you out, they've won. Our leaders are worn out. Once the citizens are, too, we're all done.

[Hydra]

27. Well spoken and more polite than I would have been

I've been off DU for months, but I couldn't help it- I had to know how the oil disaster affected the atmosphere here. I was shouted down before when I said no oil, no nuclear- they weren't safe. I also said there wasn't enough being done to help fix the jobs problem.

There's no joy in being right on such matters, but there IS a joy in seeing more open eyes. Too bad it takes pain to get there.

[Prism]

28. "Something's gotta give"

I keep thinking that somehow, some way, Americans will reach our breaking point. Every time another disaster strikes, an endless war, the financial meltdown, an environmental cataclysm, I think more and more people are getting tired of it. America is on a palpable downward trajectory, and I think every time our government causes or bungles or perpetuates a crisis, more and more of us get just a little bit closer to it.

[chill_wind]

29. Beautifully spoken! n/t

[PassingFair]

34. I've printed out about 5 posts since I've been here...

and I've been here a long time.

My printer is churning out YOURS for my quote file.

Excellent, realistically "pragmatic" post and motivating, too.

:patriot:

:applause:

[Pirate Smile]

24. K & R

[clarence swinney]

30. i tired old man

85

Republicans hate my guts.

I get excited speaking to Democratic groups.

I speak facts. I tell them what they want to hear.
How Conservatives starting with Reagan have Raped The Middle Class.

Perhaps you should schedule few speeches in your area.Exciting.

Here is my brief: You use it

.1945-1980 were Great Middle Class Years.
Affordable Education-Homes-Health Care-Jobs Jobs-Unions-Pensions

Reagan and Neo-Cons came on in 1981.
Ir was intentional ENRICH Wall Street reduce Middle Class.
1945-1% owned 30% Total Financial Wealth
1980-1% owned 20%
1989-36% (Ron big tax cuts for 1%)

2008--Bush Finished the Job
1%=43%
10%=70%
20%=93%
80%=7%-=120,000,000 workers=SHAFTED

20 years 3 Conservative presidents
18 years Conservative Senate
12 years Conservative House
6 years TOTAL CONTROL
Bush 8 let Wall Street go into Big Time Gambling
Instead of using investors money to create new businesses and increase current ones and create Jobs,
They created 31,000 Net New Jobs per Month.A shame.
Prior were Carter 218,000--Reagan 175,000--Clinton record 237.000
31,000 was an insult to working America.
During Bush 8 Wall Street shipped 2,300,000 of our jobs to China.
It will take creation of 250,00 new jobs per month for five years to get back to full employment (5%)

The Conservative ideology of Market knows best gave us Great Depression and Great Recession. Even Ultra Conservative Alan Greenspan had to admit it.

WHAT DID THEY DO??
Since 1980
60% Tax Cut to Top 1%
47% Tax Cut to Gamblers on Wall Street in Unearned Income Tax
Huge Estate Tax Cut
Revenue Sharing costs to rich in income taxes transferred to Middle Class in property taxes.
Fed gave Bush 1% Interest and big increase in Total Money Supply
1920's Deja Vu. Banks rushed to borrow and lend lend lend to Developers
to build homes too large-too expensive for middle class declining disposable income
Increased Middle Class Payroll Tax
Taxes SS income
Five Cent Tax On Gas
Spending Spree on Defense which enriched Rich Investors in Defense
stocks,.
The Big Three took a 1000B of Debt from Carter and added on 8000B in 20 years of Spend + Borrow Our kids Can Pay Tomorrow.

Carter left Reagan a 600B Budget to which he added on 80%.
Carter left Reagan a less than 1000B of Debt and he added on 1700B
Clinton left Bush an 1800 B Budget which Bush took to 3600B..
Clinton left Bush a Surplus as far as an eye could see and Bush added on
6000B Debt or more than we had after 220 years.Grover Nutquist had a party..

Folks! It was intentional. Grover Nutquist of ATR made 127 visits to White House in Bush first term. He was one who wanted to drown Government in a bathtub..How! Spend and Borrow to force us to eliminate Social Programs.
He has us, in 2010, exactly where he wanted us.
Facts hurt. Democrats are just dumb to not preach it over and over
8 more of Neocons And American World Status will disappear to number two or three or worse.
Neocon ideology destroyed Rome-Spain-Holland-England and now America?
cswinney old ugly mean honest

prove me wrong please with facts and numbers

plenty ammunition to use
google
clarence swinney
+ democrats
+ republicans
+ rape of middle class
+ identify a republican
+ praise clinton
+ clinton terrorism
+ bush lies
+ bush waffles(tell me he was not a loon)
+ clinton vs reagan
+ carter vs reagan
+ jobs
+ wreckonomics
+ democrats create wealth and jobs
+ 82 democrat accomplishments
many hundreds

You are welcome to paste copy and use all or any of it

You will get excited something to which you can look to be thrilled.

It is easy. Just have an outline. 10 things at 5 minutes each or 20 things at 3 minutes each.

Put on DVD screen rental at many places. easy easy charge a fee.

[Born_A_Truman]

31. Get some rest TZ ...

Your health is important!!