An end to fiscal stimulus?

[Beacool]

The focus in Washington has turned to reducing the deficit, and states with high unemployment can't count on support from other states for job-creation measures.

By Doyle McManus
June 24, 2010

When the Senate voted last week on whether its latest jobs bill would move forward, one Democrat, Ben Nelson of Nebraska, broke ranks and stood with Republicans to block the measure from getting a final vote.

"I've got bailout fatigue," Nelson explained. " Washington needs to put a plug in deficit spending."

A bill to extend unemployment insurance and save teachers' jobs shouldn't be this hard to pass. But this one started as a $140-billion stimulus package, was whittled down last week to $118 billion and is now headed below $100 billion. It seems likely that unemployment benefits will be extended again, but with $25 cut from every monthly unemployment check — a measure that would save the federal government $6 billion.

A tide has turned on Capitol Hill. A Democratic Congress that once passed a $787-billion stimulus bill, the largest in history, is now haggling over $25 to struggling families. The recovery is tepid — with unemployment stuck at almost 10% nationwide and much higher in some places ( California is at 12.4% and Nevada at 14%) — but the hot issue in Washington has shifted from job creation to getting the federal deficit under control.

Even liberal Democrats agree that the federal government needs to bring the deficit under control. The argument is over how soon to start doing it. Is the recovery strong enough that we can stop spending borrowed money to stimulate faster growth? Is the deficit growing so fast that we need to rein in spending now to avoid a fiscal crisis later?

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-mcmanus-column-stimulus-20100624,0,3994305.column

Why was the extension of unemployment not a stand alone bill? People can't wait around while Congress fiddles like Nero when they have ran out of benefits and still don't have a job. These are the people who have been unemployed for 6 months. I know people who have been unemployed for more than a year. What do they expect these people to live on? So Nelson has bailout fatigue? Someone should take his paycheck away. Let's see how fatigued he'll then be.

x(

[ProSense]

1. "Why was the extension of unemployment not a stand alone bill? "

Because Olympia Snowe doesn't call the shots.

Why shouldn't saving teachers' jobs be coupled with unemployment?

[Beacool]

2. There's no argument that they should have passed the existing bill.

But why not pass an emergency bill now so that people are not left without benefits altogether?

[ProSense]

4. Is saving teachers' jobs not an emergency?

The GOP have no excuse for not voting for this bill. What they want is to cut unemployment benefits and deny funding for teachers' jobs.

When should they address the issue with teachers' jobs, and are the Republicans going to vote for it?

Why should the teachers' job aid be separate? The solution to unemployment is to create more unemployed?

[Beacool]

6. Of course it is.

But are teachers on the same boat? I live in NJ and many school districts cut jobs in May (May 15 was the legal deadline to inform teachers that they would not be hired back in September). Most school districts over did the layoffs and have informed the teachers that the majority will be back in September.

[golfguru]

9. A good portion of teaching can be done by using

computers. A well done video is far more effective and more
accurate than any teacher. A well written inter-active computer program
can teach a student much better than a live teacher.

So, we need to use the technology available today and reduce the need
for in-efficient human teachers. Only job teachers should have is to
facilitate the inter-action between technology and students.

[Odin2005]

13. I agree with you *Grabs Popcorn*

[LWolf]

14. I beg to differ.

But then, I'm a teacher, and have more than a few clues about teaching.

[golfguru]

18. and I have been almost straight A student

through my master's degree in engineering, arguably the most
difficult curriculum, with the largest drop out rate in college.
Lot higher than teacher's college. So do not go on lecturing me
how much more you know than me.

Only a few of my teachers were really worthwhile, the rest just
were there to collect paychecks. I could have benefited heckuva
lot more with computerized teaching, however I graduated from
high school way before personal computers came on line.

However in my working years I spent many years developing expert
software to facilitate engineering and manufacturing, and the
results were outstanding....impossible to duplicate with manual
methods. So I know a little more than you on how to use computers
very effectively.

[LWolf]

19. I'd prefer not to lecture,

unless you demonstrate ignorance. I will, however, point out that I also have a master's degree. Engineering is not teaching, and a master's in Engineering doesn't make you an expert on teaching.

My master's, though, plus my 27 years in public education, DOES qualify me to know a bit more about teaching than you do.

You are not every student in the U.S., and your experience is one small scrap of anecdotal evidence among the experience of millions.

You probably DO know a more than I about how to use computers effectively. In public education, we are constantly blocked by lack of funds and lack of technological resources. We, and our students, don't have the actual face time to make effective use of the resources we've got. I have, thought, been trained to use many kinds of hardware and software that are not available in our actual classrooms and labs. I see large volumes of new software for educational programming every year. Some are okay, but none of them take the place of the teacher.

If you knew more about teaching, you'd understand that.

[golfguru]

20. Computer software in teaching...

It sounds to me like you are probably a good teacher.
Would you agree not every teacher is a good teacher?

If yes, then the good teachers combining forces with good
software developers can produce a product which would be more
beneficial to the overall student body than a mix of good and
bad teachers.

In my 37 years of working, what I learned is that not every
engineer is very good. Some are much better than others. My
job was to gather the knowhow and techniques from the best and
produce expert software which made even the bad engineers produce
excellent results.

Every class I have taken from elementary school through graduate
college was essentially routine pre-known stuff processed by
teachers to the students. This is ideally suited for computers.

So we can take from the best teachers and benefit all students.
Instead of repetitive and routine teaching work, the people can
do more creative work and research & development.

[LWolf]

21. I would agree to the extent

that some people are better than others at what they do, and that holds true for teachers as well. I don't agree with current conventional propaganda that suggests that the system is riddled with bad teachers and that's why students are struggling.

The system is riddled with dysfunction, but, generally, it's not the teachers, but the system that controls what they do.

Good software would be great. Software will never, though, replicate the human factor in teaching. There is simply so much more to helping students find success than what a machine can do.

The single most important school-related factor in how much a student progresses in any one year? The relationship that teachers build with students. It's quite true that some don't do a good job of that. But machines don't build any relationships at all.

[AdHocSolver]

22. Your idea of computerizing education is an Orwellian nightmare.

A big problem with our society is that there is already too much control by computers.

Young people spend too much time playing computer games, many of which are violent.

Many companies force you to deal with computers rather than actual people to limit your options in dealing with issues. Computers are more gate keepers than facilitators. There is no way to successfully argue with a computer.

There is already way too much subservience to authority in this society. Computerizing education would make subservience even more widespread as you can't question or challenge what a computer tells you.

The problem with education is the curriculums, the textbooks, the organization of school systems, many incompetent school administrations, inadequate funding of many school systems, the politicization of education with asinine programs like No Child Left Behind (NCLB) and Race To The Top (RTTT), poverty among many families. With the same people in charge of a computerized educational system, it would merely embed the same failed practices in stone. At least a real teacher has a chance to overcome some of the failure built in to the current system. A computer system is rigid and totally obedient to its faults.

Computerization of general education would exacerbate an existing failure of education namely "teach to the test" of which NCLB and RTTT are prime examples.

I programmed computers for over twenty years. It is very difficult to design a good API (Application Programming Interface) let alone the back end processing necessary to produce valid results.

Computerized teaching can be efficient in teaching very narrow technical specialties such as programming in a new computer language. For general education, it is a bad idea.

I taught school for two years before switching to a new career. The educational system in this country is horrendously bad, but it isn't the teachers' fault. I admire teachers who can hang in there and try to make a positive difference in their students' lives in spite of sometimes insurmountable odds.

If you think that replacing teachers with computers will solve any problems in education, then you haven't a clue about what is wrong with education or how to solve it.

[Duer 157099]

3. Nelson needs to feel some comfort fatigue

Curious how the fatigue sets in after all the fat cats have been bailed out.

[Beacool]

5. Yeah, ain't it so...........

:puke:

[midnight]

7. Your suggestion that Ben Nelson have his paycheck removed

to school him in what fatigue is all about, is probably the only recourse the jobless will have.


"Nelson's early career as assistant general counsel for Central National Insurance Group of Omaha was followed by service as Nebraska's State Insurance Director before he returned to Central National Insurance as an executive vice president; he eventually became the company's President.<1>"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Nelson

Nelson is a paid spokesman for the corporations of America, and not the workers.

[Beacool]

10. It's just simply immoral how these Congress folks toy with people's lives.

They play their little backroom games and worry about staying in power, but how many truly care about the people who are affected by the decisions that they make?

:-(

[obxhead]

8. Well I have military spending fatigue. nt

[Odin2005]

11. Have these idiots totally forgot the lesson of the 1937 recession?

[Beacool]

15. It seems so.............

:-(

[IndianaGreen]

12. Hoover economics!

Back with a vengeance!

[Beacool]

16. Yep, you said it!!!

x(

[HomerRamone]

17. and just like the vacuum cleaners, it sucks nt