'Not since FDR has a president done so much to transform this country.'

[ProSense]

'Not since FDR has a president done so much to transform this country.'



Rachel Maddow Compares Obama's Legislative Record to FDR

Love the poster!

[Xenotime]

1. I agree. He will be known as the The One who pulls us from the dark ages.

[IndianaGreen]

2. You better do some reading on Lyndon Johnson

I don't see anything comparable to Medicare, or The Great Society.

[ProSense]

3. Tell it to Maddow. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

5. You are quoting Dave Harding's blog

[ProSense]

6. I quoted Rachel Maddow. Maybe she isn't up to speed as you are? n/t

[IndianaGreen]

7. This is not a transformational Presidency

although that was what many of us voted for.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

38. Some of us voted for the things that he campaigned on.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

And for the most part we're relatively pleased. Some of us, while romantic about the hope and change thing, also recognized it as at least partly, a marketing campaign that would get us to those promises. President Obama is a politician who has faults, but for the most part he's been what he advertised he'd be. A calm, collected manager and foreign fence-mender.

[IndianaGreen]

45. This is not a transformational Presidency

which is the point I am making. At best, Obama is a good President. At worse, he is a transitional President.

[phleshdef]

59. Transformational is such a subjective term to begin with.

I'm not sure what you hope to gain by repeating that over and over other than pissing people off who feel otherwise.

[IndianaGreen]

64. The OP's title is false!

To say that "Not since FDR has a president done so much to transform this country" is totally false because it ignores a lot of good Presidents since the New Deal, including a handful that have been rated as great by historians.

LBJ's Medicare and Civil Rights legislation were historical and transformative events. Were it not for Vietnam, LBJ would have been regarded as the greatest President in the second half of the 20th century.

[RBInMaine]

102. Too early to say one way or the other on "transformative,"but sure as hell BETTER than RePUKES !

[Exilednight]

110. I voted for him based on things the he campaigned on .....

and I am still waiting for a single one of those things to come full circle.

HCR, total bust. I am now forced to buy health insurance with no public option and no cost controls on how much my insurance company can raise my rates. Two days after Obama's "stern warning to insurance companies" i was hit with a 20% increase to my premiums.

I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

I also understand that it is impossible for any President, except for maybe Bush who was the dumbest President ever, to get everything they want, but Obama hasn't fully delivered on a single campaign promise.

[WonderGrunion]

134. Your last sentence is so false it isn't even funny.

If Bush had gotten everything he wanted we would have a fully privatized (and bankrupt) Social Security system, we'd have a constitutional ban on abortion, his tax cuts would have been permanent from the beginning instead of having an expiration date. Even under the darkest days of Bush, the minority party (us, the Democrats) have enough power to halt legislation to keep the truly awful things from coming to pass.

As far as President Obama not keeping a single campaign promise, these guys would disagree with you vehemently:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

I'll let you deduct one from the 117 since that involved buying his daughters a puppy.

[RBInMaine]

140. They could use you in Freeperland. Please get on some anti-depressants.

[hulka38]

16. Who's quote is this:

"Not since FDR has a president done so much to transform this country." ?

[suzie]

83. And I don't see legislation proposed by a dead president who'd been taken

down before such legislation could get passed, either.

The LBJ comparisons are so misleading, but I'm guessing that's their intent--to mislead those who weren't around during the Kennedy assassination year and don't remember the trauma of that time.

Or the ability that it gave Johnson to use it in passing legislation.

[impik]

101. Yep. They also comfortably forget some of the disgusting things

FDR has done - things that would make the pure-left of today to lost their pants out of anger.

[Radical Activist]

145. I thought many of his biggest accomplishments happened

after LBJ won his own term. '64 gave Democrats one of the biggest majorities the party has ever had. I'm not disagreeing with your point about JFK, but adding that the super-majority in Congress had much to do with his ability to pass legislation as well. I don't believe anything comparable to those two years after the '64 election has happened since then.

[Radical Activist]

144. Yes, he has some catching up to do if he's going to equal

LBJ's domestic agenda. And we can hope he doesn't catch up to LBJ's foreign policy disaster. Many liberals don't like giving LBJ much credit for his domestic agenda because of the war. They often credit JFK for LBJ's accomplishments.

But, if Obama can pass a decent climate change bill then I think the comparison is fair. It's the last major item on his campaign platform. It's the great issue of our time and he already did much for clean energy with the stimulus bill.

If he can pass a good energy bill, stay on schedule for ending two wars, and keep the economic recovery going then I would have to list him as one of the half dozen most accomplished Presidents of all time (knock on wood). We'll see how it goes.

[jaxx]

4. And people say he's weak!

He's definitely the right person for the times.

[JitterbugPerfume]

8. Presidents can do their best work during second term

when they can enjoy "lame duck" status.

I am very impressed by what Obama has accomplished in the face of unprecedented opposition (constant filibuster)

[IndianaGreen]

9. Second terms have been duds since the death of FDR

An Obama's second term will be a dud, just as his predecessors' were without exception. Better to have a good first term, and then retire and rest on your laurels.

[tridim]

17. No offense, but your advice stinks.

I'm glad people like you don't work in the WH.

[IndianaGreen]

26. If people like me worked in White House, the wars would be over and you would have single payer

and we would have begun last year with a massive public works program along the lines of what the New Deal did to pull the country out of the Depression.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndianaGreen]

35. Point to a productive second term of any President that followed FDR

There isn't one!

[tridim]

37. Obama is like no president we've ever had.

You should know that by now.

[IndianaGreen]

47. In the 21st century perhaps!

Historians Rank George W. Bush Among Worst Presidents

Lincoln and Washington were rated as the best

By Kenneth T. Walsh

Posted: February 17, 2009

The survey was conducted for C-SPAN, the cable network, among 65 presidential historians and scholars, who ranked the 42 former occupants of the White House on 10 attributes of leadership: public persuasion, crisis leadership, economic management, moral authority, international relations, administrative skills, relations with Congress, "vision/setting an agenda," "pursued equal justice for all," and "performance within the context of his times."

Supervising the survey were historians Douglas Brinkley of Rice University, Edna Medford of Howard University, and Richard Norton Smith of George Mason University.

"How we rank our presidents is, to a large extent, influenced by our own times," Medford said in a news release. "Today's concerns shape our views of the past, be it in the area of foreign policy, managing the economy, or human rights. . . . Lincoln continues to rank at the top in all categories because he is perceived to embody the nation's core values: integrity, moderation, persistence in the pursuit of honorable goals, respect for human rights, compassion; those who collect near the bottom are perceived as having failed to uphold those values."

Among the historians and political scientists who participated in the ratings were H. W. Brands, Thomas Cronin, Robert Dallek, Alvin Felzenberg, Fred Greenstein, and James McPherson.

http://politics.usnews.com/news/history/articles/2009/02/17/historians-rank-george-w-bush-among-worst-presidents.html

[WonderGrunion]

135. If you have that much power over the conservadems,

then why are you wasting your talents posting on a message board. The presidency is not a dictatorship, you have to deal with congress and the supreme court to get things done.

[lordcommander]

15. Thats important

He has done well so far but lets see what happens in his second term, with hopefully a more progressive agenda.

[Phx_Dem]

10. Amazing how some people automatically unrec anything positive

about President Obama.

Sour grapes anyone?

[IndianaGreen]

11. Did we get single payer? No! LBJ gave single payer to seniors!

Is the war over? Far from it!

Is the Recession ending? No evidence of it.

All we got are hyperbole and slogans.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

19. not yet but

I don't think the recession will end but this is a global matter not specifically American.
The war well it better be ended by next year or else.
I think things can be added to the health system to bring it towards single payer. That needs some creativity with this Republican-minded country.

[pundaint]

69. We spend more per person than other nations do, HCR has increased that disparity, and we STILL wont

have a delivery system remotely competitive with the industrialized world. There is no way the lot of Americans has improved by the legislation on the whole. There were big industry winners, and a relatively very small number of human winners. In all the American People are getting further screwed by the worst system of healthcare payments in the world and Rachel and the President would have us cheer.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

116. I lived in the UK in the 70-80s and loved the NHS

I don't see why we can't have at least state health care systems that are free at the point of us and the money is taken out of the salary. I paid a certain amount for health and social security out of my salary towards healthcare in the UK. I think states should be pursuaded to promote healthcare for all by TV ads, propaganda. The GOP hate the American people so much they want them to die.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

148. Agreed!

And people I know in Canada love their health care system.

We should have started by vastly expanding the public health clinic network for the uninsured and under-insured.

[Phx_Dem]

84. We got ALOT of other things, many of which are more important than

single fucking payer. Like pumping $100 billion into rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, and $60 billion for clean energy, and bringing our economy back from the brink. In my mind each of those things, individually, are 10x more important than a single payer plan.

Single payer is not the be-all, end-all of everything in the minds of most people. My thoughts were that if they tried to do it in one fell swoop, it would have been a administrative disaster.

[IndianaGreen]

87. Medicare is single payer. I guess I can't count on you on protecting it

and Social Security from the idiots in the Deficit Reduction Commission that have been trying to get rid of both for years.

[impik]

99. Furthermore

Obama never campaigned on SP - Nor did any other Dem candidate, and i doubt SP had more than 30 votes in senate - but why let facts come in the way of good purity rage.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

13. Rachel Maddow is propaganda? n/t

[Enrique]

14. anything can be used as propaganda

people can take the words of credible people such as Rachel Maddow, and use it as propaganda.

[ProSense]

20. "people can take the words of credible people such as Rachel Maddow, and use it as propaganda."

So she didn't compare Obama to FDR?

Where's the propaganda?

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

25. So you're saying that posting this for the first time is spamming the board?

Do facts make you uncomfortable?

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

36. Once. How many times

has the claim that the President plans to cut Social Security been posted?

[tridim]

34. Prosense? A Spammer?

Wow.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

111. You don't like facts?

"Sheila Bair on ‘Too Big to Fail’ and Elizabeth Warren on the financial reform bill"

"Barbour has mobilized only 58 of 6000 National Guard troops authorized by the President."

"The G-8 Muskoka Summit: Saving Lives Through the New G-8 Maternal and Child Health Initiative"

So these posts bother you?

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

22. Publicly promoting the President's policy accomplishments = propagandistic.

Gotcha.

[Enrique]

24. not necessarily

there are many positive posts about Obama here at DU. Only a small minority of it is propaganda.

[ProSense]

30. "Only a small minority of it is propaganda." Where's the propaganda?

Are you suggesting that posting information about what the President and Congress has accomplished, for example, the summary of the financial reform bill, is propaganda?

[Enrique]

40. i'll be honest, some of it is the source

someone like Rachel Maddow says something positive about the President, that's one thing. If Robert Gibbs says exactly the same positive thing, I will likely see it as propaganda.

[ProSense]

42. So if Maddow and Gibbs say the same thing, Gibb's statement is propaganda?

Dictionary time.

[Enrique]

48. if Rachel says it, it's because she means it

she is limited to some extent by her employer's interests, but she is clearly allowed to say negative things about the President, sometimes strongly negative things. If she says something positive, it's because she means it.

Gibbs says positive things about every single thing Obama does. Does Gibbs sincerely agree this much with Obama? Of course not. If he says something positive about Obama, he's doing his job.

[ProSense]

57. "Gibbs says positive things about every single thing Obama does. "

Let's say the news reports state that the President plans to withdraw combat troops from Iraq by August and Gibbs says the same thing, his comment is propaganda?

Are you then claiming that the news reports know more about the President's intentions than Gibbs?

[Enrique]

60. I find news reports much more credible than government spokespersons

in fact a big problem with some news reports is that they report official statements without enough skepticism. In the example you give, I would expect MSM sources to be somewhat stenographic, while more aggressive sources like Huffington Post or Rolling Stone to be more likely to ask questions like are troops really going to be withdrawn? How many? What conditions are there on this plan? Will they be replaced by private contractors? Etc.

I consider that skepticism to be a good thing. You may see it as "negativity".

[ProSense]

63. "I consider that skepticism to be a good thing. You may see it as 'negativity'."

Individual skepticism doesn't make a report propaganda, it just makes the individual a skeptic.

[treestar]

127. So you don't think the media carries water for the republicans?

And look at anything from the WH is propaganda? Wow. You can't support anyone. You can only cut down and in fact by your standards have to cut down every President, no matter who it is and what they stand for, since by definition they'll be in the WH. And the more left wing they are, the more the media will carry water for the opponents.

[Enrique]

139. the MSM carries water for the establishment

recently they've been bombarding Gibbs with demands for deficit reduction for example.

Regarding "i can't support anyone", you're missing the point. I can support a president and still point out that his press secretary's job is to some extent to issue propaganda. That would be true if Dennis Kucinich were president. It wouldn't be "cutting down" President Kucinich to point that out.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

32. Ok.

I accept that clarification. ... just not sure where one could possibly draw the line. Perhaps it's one of those "you know it when you see it" sort of distinctions.

[jefferson_dem]

18. Rachel Maddow gets it.

Watch this - http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/6/26/105311/597

[arcadian]

21. unrec

[jefferson_dem]

27. rec.

Whenever any serial malcontents wish to admit they were wrong and celebrate progress ... I'll be here waiting with a :hug: and a :fistbump: and a :toast:

[liquid diamond]

107. Rec here. It's really sad how the election of a DEMOCRATIC

president has divided this board. Who would have thought?

[rury]

28. I have some T-shirts with that beautiful picture on them

Hey, President Barack Obama: loveya: :toast:

[avaistheone1]

33. Unrecommended

and ridiculous.

[ProSense]

39. Did you see

the video?

Great stuff.

[hulka38]

41. "Not since FDR has a president done so much to transform this country." is not Rachel's

quote as we are all led to believe by the OP. It is Rachel quoting someone named Taegan Goddard describing Obama's record. You would like people to believe that this, "Not since FDR has a president done so much to transform this country" is a direct quote from Rachel. It is not. DU should not allow this misinformation. Please edit your OP for clarity.

[ProSense]

43. "It is Rachel quoting someone named Taegan Goddard " Yeah, and

the OP didn't say it was her quote. Still, she was great: video.

[hulka38]

46. People think it is Rachel's quote which is what you want.

Say who's quote it is in the OP.

[ProSense]

50. No one but you thinks this is Rachel's quote. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

52. You specifically said you "were quoting Rachel Maddow"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=357001&mesg_id=357016

[ProSense]

54. "Rachel Maddow Compares Obama's Legislative Record to FDR "

Check the OP again.

[IndianaGreen]

55. Obama's legislative record pales in comparison to Lyndon Johnson's

which is what I am taking issue with the OP.

The OP, unlike Rachel, makes the assertion that Obama is the greatest since FDR. An historical inaccuracy at best!

[ProSense]

58. "The OP, unlike Rachel, makes the assertion that Obama is the greatest since FDR"

Maddow:

It was the largest investment in infrastructure since Ike. For solving our country`s energy problems, something Obama has compared to man walking on the moon, it contained about $60 billion in spending and tax incentives for renewable and clean energy, also a historic investment.

But presidential legacies are complex. Not even the Reagan administration`s legacy is pure as the conservative-driven snow. But Taegan Goddard at CQ Politics was right today about nothing this big happening since FDR.

[hulka38]

62. It's very simple. Edit your OP to reflect who authored the quote

so you can clear this up. If you want people to think that it is Rachel's quote then don't edit your OP.

[ProSense]

65. Or people can stop speculating and read. n/t

[hulka38]

81. Stop people from speculating by saying who's quote that is.

You have the short quote and you chose to put Rachel Maddow as the only name in the OP. You clearly want people to think it's Rachel's quote. It's your responsibility to say who's quote your OP revolves around.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[impik]

104. Rachel agreed with that statement.

She said: "The last time a president achieved so much, booze was illegal".

But yea, keep trying.

[hulka38]

108. That's what I said on this thread 3 hours ago

"It is Rachel quoting someone named Taegan Goddard describing Obama's record".

It is not Rachel's quote. I'm happy you understand that. You do right?

[IndianaGreen]

49. but you did say it was Rachel right on this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=357001&mesg_id=357010

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=357001&mesg_id=357016

[ProSense]

51. No, I did not.

Do you not see the link to piece about Rachel Maddow's commentary in the OP?

[IndianaGreen]

53. On your reply to the thread you specifically said you were quoting Rachel

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=357001&mesg_id=357016

[jenmito]

74. "But Taegan Goddard at CQ Politics was right today about nothing this big happening since FDR."

Rachel's words. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/6/26/105311/597

[ProSense]

78. It's OK to cheer on Jindal, praise Nixon or hail Bush for his unitary leadership, but comparing

Obama to FDR is simply beyond the pale.

[IndianaGreen]

82. In case you missed it, the Left opposed Buhs's unitary Presidency

as we do Obama's. The unitary Presidency is extra-constitutional and poses a threat to all of our freedoms regardless of who is in the White House.

Comparing Obama to the man that saved our country from the Great Depression and the Axis Powers, and gave us Social Security, is a very challenging comparison.

[jenmito]

92. Yup. And anything positive said by a true liberal, even considered "too critical" of Obama at times

is dismissed by those who can't give ANY credit to our Dem. president.

[hulka38]

100. Who is the true liberal you are talking about?

[jenmito]

115. Rachel Maddow.

[hulka38]

118. What was the positive thing she said about Obama?

[ProSense]

121. Here

in her own words

[jenmito]

122. Thanks for posting that. I hope others here watch that video, too.

:hi:

[pundaint]

71. We can't expect DU to certify accuracy, that's why we're here. The regular Rachel viewer

would hear such effusiveness, although not with those precise words, often.

[hulka38]

44. This is Taegan Goddard's quote, not Rachel's.

[impik]

105. And as expected, you keep trying, regardless the facts. How "progressive" of you

[hulka38]

106. What are you talking about? This is Taegan Goddard's quote:

"Not since FDR has a president done so much to transform this country." That is a fact. Who's quote do you think it is?

[NJmaverick]

61. Absolutely and completely correct!

:applause:

[IndianaGreen]

68. I guess Truman, Kennedy, LBJ never existed

I suggest you rethink your theology!

[ProSense]

70. Obama made the largest middle class tax cut in history

Via

Chris Hayes had a similar observation.

On the politics side of the ledger, Ben Smith notes Obama's emphasis on the tax cuts in the bill. I'm not necessarily a fan, though politically it's true that every single Republican member of congress can now be accused of "Voting against the biggest tax cut in history" come next election." Clearly, this hasn't escaped the White House's notice.

[IndianaGreen]

72. To rank Obama above Truman, Kennedy, and LBJ is quite incredible stretch

and to totally ignore their Presidencies is rather bad!

[ProSense]

76. To you. That's your opinion. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

79. Without Kennedy you and I would either be dead, or wouldn't have been born!

It was Kennedy that refused to listen to his military and chose a cautious approach to the October Missile Crisis. Had we invaded Cuba, as the military and many civilians wanted, there would have been a nuclear exchange between the United States and the Soviet Union, and none of us would be here to talk about it.

[NJmaverick]

77. If you review the original OP there were many facts provided to support the assertion

In addition ranking one president above another does not "totally ignore" the one ranked lower.

[IndianaGreen]

80. There is no ranking in the OP title, only an absolutist and dogmatic assertion

That's were the hearburn lies!

[NJmaverick]

93. I don't think the title of the post supports your claims

I am thinking you are letting your beliefs cloud your persecption

[Hawkowl]

85. So?

By running the biggest deficits in history doesn't, shouldn't he be regarded as the most fiscally irresponsible?

Tax cut, tax cuts. A FUCKING POX on tax cuts. When everyone is hoarding money, what is the effing point of giving them more money to hoard? Better the government keep it and spend on something we all need like solar power.

[ProSense]

91. "By running the biggest deficits in history doesn't"

"Tax cut, tax cuts. A FUCKING POX on tax cuts."

I don't think that's what the majority of people who got back the largest tax returns and those receiving unemployment are saying.

In fact, there seems to be outrage that Congress cut the stimulus.

[Hawkowl]

94. Depends on who gets the tax cuts

The problem is Obama has not seized the narrative. Instead of insisting that the ultra wealthy give up their W tax cuts, which is the PROXIMATE CAUSE, of the deficit, he escalates spending (good in a pseudo depression) but fails to halt the drag on the economy from the rich hoarding their (our) money. He could have come right out and said basically we are in a 100 year national crisis and everyone has to pitch in and pay up. In return the government will rebuild America. Instead, we got a more subtle "keep shopping" pitch.

You echo the MSM, which is nothing more than the PR arm of the ultra wealthy and the corporations they own. I didn't mention unemployment but you have conflated deficit with unemployment benefits. Why? Not because either of us are against unemployment benefits, but because the media has been screaming both together, forming some nebulous link in the general public's mind that gets translated into: "These deadbeats are running up our deficit and stealing our tax dollars!"

That is NOT what I'm saying. Be careful you don't say it either. The reason we have both a deficit and a pseudo depression is because the wealthy are hoarding money and shipping jobs overseas at the same time we are funneling trillions of dollars into unwinnable wars. This crowds out investment in small and medium businesses which create 80% of all jobs as well as the vast majority of innovative technology.

I'm not against running a deficit. I'm pretty much a Neo-Keynesian. I'm against the continued transfer of wealth from the middle class to the parasitic uber wealthy.

[Warren Stupidity]

133. And that is what you are basing this assertion on?

A big tax cut ranks him up with FDR? I blame 30 years of relentless Thatcherism for the delusion that yax cuts are great accomplishments.

Social Security
Unemployment compensation.
FDIC.
TVA
SEC
Repeal of Prohibition.

Please list the equivalent accomplishments.

[ProSense]

136. OK

A few:

• The President delivered health care reform, ending a nearly 100-year quest.
  
  
• The Hate Crimes Prevention Act.
  
  
• The Food and Drug Administration permitted for the first time to regulate tobacco.
  
  
• See this for details on the green revolution.

Looking forward:

• Consumer Protections with Authority and Independence
  
  
• The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
  
  
• The Financial Stability Oversight Council
  
  
• Creates an Office of Credit Ratings at the SEC
  
  
• Volcker Rule
  
  
• Regulates Hedge Funds for the first time ever

Speaking of prohibition, and to quote Maddow:

Love this administration or hate it, this president is getting a lot done. The last time any president did this much in office, booze was illegal. If you believe in policy, if you believe in government that addresses problems, cheers to that. Good night.

[Warren Stupidity]

143. "The President delivered health care reform, ending a nearly 100-year quest. "

Different argument now as your new list is now not listing your original claim to FDR-ness. But, I have a huge problem with "The President delivered health care reform, ending a nearly 100-year quest."

This reform, this modest compromised reform, a reform that I personally try to find some good in and defend here on DU, does not in any way come close to ending a nearly 100-year old quest, it certainly does not even come close the scope of the 1965 medicaid act that LBJ pushed through congress, and it closes the book on nothing. It is a modest and flawed start, and Obama gets credit from me for getting this done, this modest reform, where Clinton failed, but in no way does this rise to the level of LBJ, let alone FDR.

The financial reform package is another hugely compromised bill. I'll reserve judgment on it for now.

I really don't care much for prohibition, alcohol, tobacco, marijuana or otherwise, but if you want to stake your claim on that nonsense, go for it.

[ProSense]

146. "This reform, this modest compromised reform"

Social Security was modest. Still, let's explore:

THE PRESIDENT’S PROPOSAL

February 22, 2010

The President’s Proposal puts American families and small business owners in control of their own health care.

• It makes insurance more affordable by providing the largest middle class tax cut for health care in history, reducing premium costs for tens of millions of families and small business owners who are priced out of coverage today. This helps over 31 million Americans afford health care who do not get it today – and makes coverage more affordable for many more.
  
  
• It sets up a new competitive health insurance market giving tens of millions of Americans the exact same insurance choices that members of Congress will have.
  
  
• It brings greater accountability to health care by laying out commonsense rules of the road to keep premiums down and prevent insurance industry abuses and denial of care.
  
  
• It will end discrimination against Americans with pre-existing conditions.

It puts our budget and economy on a more stable path by reducing the deficit by $100 billion over the next ten years – and about $1 trillion over the second decade – by cutting government overspending and reining in waste, fraud and abuse.

PDF

It also includes:

A state single payer amendment was proposed by Senator Sanders. It is more detailed than the Kucinich amendment because it would cover matters beyond the jurisdiction of the House Education and Labor Committee. These include: Dedicated funding for planning and implementation grants; Specific allocations of funds from existing federal health programs, and waivers to permit coordination with those programs; Quality assurance and health professional training programs associated with other federal programs.

link

KEY PROVISIONS THAT TAKE EFFECT IMMEDIATELY

UNDER SENATE BILL AS AMENDED BY RECONCILIATION BILL

Below are some of the key provisions that will take effect immediately, under the legislative package the House will consider later this week (the Senate health bill as amended by the reconciliation bill). The reconciliation bill is based largely on the improvements put forward by the President’s proposal – moving towards the House bill in certain critical areas.

1. SMALL BUSINESS TAX CREDITS—Offers tax credits to small businesses to make employee coverage more affordable. Tax credits of up to 35 percent of premiums will be immediately available to firms that choose to offer coverage. Effective beginning for calendar year 2010. (Beginning in 2014, the small business tax credits will cover 50 percent of premiums.)
   
   
2. BEGINS TO CLOSE THE MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE—Provides a $250 rebate to Medicare beneficiaries who hit the donut hole in 2010. Effective for calendar year 2010. (Beginning in 2011, institutes a 50% discount on brand-name drugs in the donut hole; also completely closes the donut hole by 2020.)
   
   
3. FREE PREVENTIVE CARE UNDER MEDICARE—Eliminates co-payments for preventive services and exempts preventive services from deductibles under the Medicare program. Effective beginning January 1, 2011.
   
   
4. HELP FOR EARLY RETIREES—Creates a temporary re-insurance program (until the Exchanges are available) to help offset the costs of expensive health claims for employers that provide health benefits for retirees age 55-64. Effective 90 days after enactment
   
   
5. ENDS RESCISSIONS—Bans insurance companies from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Effective 6 months after enactment.
   
   
6. NO DISCRIMINATON AGAINST CHILDREN WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS—Prohibits health insurers from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions. Effective 6 months after enactment. (Beginning in 2014, this prohibition would apply to all persons.)
   
   
7. BANS LIFETIME LIMITS ON COVERAGE—Prohibits health insurance companies from placing lifetime caps on coverage. Effective 6 months after enactment.
   
   
8. BANS RESTRICTIVE ANNUAL LIMITS ON COVERAGE—Tightly restricts new plans’ use of annual limits to ensure access to needed care. These tight restrictions will be defined by HHS. Effective 6 months after enactment. (Beginning in 2014, the use of any annual limits would be prohibited for all plans.)
   
   
9. FREE PREVENTIVE CARE UNDER NEW PRIVATE PLANS—Requires new private plans to cover preventive services with no co-payments and with preventive services being exempt from deductibles. Effective 6 months after enactment. (Beginning in 2018, this requirement applies to all plans.)
   
   
10. NEW, INDEPENDENT APPEALS PROCESS—Ensures consumers in new plans have access to an effective internal and external appeals process to appeal decisions by their health insurance plan. Effective 6 months after enactment.
    
    
11. ENSURING VALUE FOR PREMIUM PAYMENTS—Requires plans in the individual and small group market to spend 80 percent of premium dollars on medical services, and plans in the large group market to spend 85 percent. Insurers that do not meet these thresholds must provide rebates to policyholders. Effective on January 1, 2011.
    
    
12. IMMEDIATE HELP FOR THE UNINSURED UNTIL EXCHANGE IS AVAILABLE (INTERIM HIGH-RISK POOL)—Provides immediate access to insurance for Americans who are uninsured because of a pre-existing condition - through a temporary high-risk pool. Effective 90 days after enactment.
    
    
13. EXTENDS COVERAGE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE UP TO 26TH BIRTHDAY THROUGH PARENTS’ INSURANCE – Requires health plans to allow young people up to their 26th birthday to remain on their parents’ insurance policy, at the parents’ choice. Effective 6 months after enactment.
    
    
14. COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS—Increases funding for Community Health Centers to allow for nearly a doubling of the number of patients seen by the centers over the next 5 years. Effective beginning in fiscal year 2010.
    
    
15. INCREASING NUMBER OF PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS—Provides new investment in training programs to increase the number of primary care doctors, nurses, and public health professionals. Effective beginning in fiscal year 2010.
    
    
16. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION BASED ON SALARY—Prohibits new group health plans from establishing any eligibility rules for health care coverage that have the effect of discriminating in favor of higher wage employees. Effective 6 months after enactment.
    
    
17. HEALTH INSURANCE CONSUMER INFORMATION—Provides aid to states in establishing offices of health insurance consumer assistance in order to help individuals with the filing of complaints and appeals. Effective beginning in FY 2010.
    
    
18. CREATES NEW, VOLUNTARY, PUBLIC LONG-TERM CARE INSURANCE PROGRAM—Creates a long-term care insurance program to be financed by voluntary payroll deductions to provide benefits to adults who become functionally disabled. Effective on January 1, 2011.

[Warren Stupidity]

149. Well then when this is single payer universal health care I'll agree it is a big fucking deal

until then how about you agree it is a modest compromised reform?

[NJmaverick]

73. Here is something I think you might appreciate

When you start to believe that anyone with differing views must be practicing some sort of religion, you might find the following enlightening:

Distinguishing Between Fact, Opinion, Belief, and Prejudice

When forming personal convictions, we often interpret factual evidence through the filter of our values, feelings, tastes, and past experiences. Hence, most statements we make in speaking and writing are assertions of fact, opinion, belief, or prejudice. The usefulness and acceptability of an assertion can be improved or diminished by the nature of the assertion, depending on which of the following categories it falls into:

A fact is verifiable. We can determine whether it is true by researching the evidence. This may involve numbers, dates, testimony, etc. (Ex.: "World War II ended in 1945.") The truth of the fact is beyond argument if one can assume that measuring devices or records or memories are correct. Facts provide crucial support for the assertion of an argument. However, facts by themselves are worthless unless we put them in context, draw conclusions, and, thus, give them meaning.

An opinion is a judgment based on facts, an honest attempt to draw a reasonable conclusion from factual evidence. (For example, we know that millions of people go without proper medical care, and so you form the opinion that the country should institute national health insurance even though it would cost billions of dollars.) An opinion is potentially changeable--depending on how the evidence is interpreted. By themselves, opinions have little power to convince. You must always let your reader know what your evidence is and how it led you to arrive at your opinion.

Unlike an opinion, a belief is a conviction based on cultural or personal faith, morality, or values. Statements such as "Capital punishment is legalized murder" are often called "opinions" because they express viewpoints, but they are not based on facts or other evidence. They cannot be disproved or even contested in a rational or logical manner. Since beliefs are inarguable, they cannot serve as the thesis of a formal argument. (Emotional appeals can, of course, be useful if you happen to know that your audience shares those beliefs.)

Another kind of assertion that has no place in serious argumentation is prejudice, a half-baked opinion based on insufficient or unexamined evidence. (Ex.: "Women are bad drivers.") Unlike a belief, a prejudice is testable: it can be contested and disproved on the basis of facts. We often form prejudices or accept them from others--family, friends, the media, etc.--without questioning their meaning or testing their truth. At best, prejudices are careless oversimplifications. At worst, they reflect a narrow-minded view of the world. Most of all, they are not likely to win the confidence or agreement of your readers.

(Adapted from: Fowler, H. Ramsey. The Little, Brown Handbook. Boston: Little, Brown, 1986.)

[unblock]

66. the times often define the quality of the presidency, and the history is not yet writ for this one.

economically, if the lame recovery gradually gets us back to where we once were, he'll be viewed as a success; if this is a sucker's rally that leads into another severe contraction, he'll be viewed as inept. it doesn't really matter whether what he actually did was the best possible thing or not, presidencies are usually judged by results, not effort.

had the south won the civil war, lincoln would have been viewed as a disaster by the north and south alike. but the union was preserved, ergo lincoln was a great president. the war could easily have gone the other way by sheer luck in a number of instances, where a key battle might have been avoided by two armies missing each other by just a few miles, or some other battlefield result that could have gone the other way by a different roll of the dice, having nothing to do with anything lincoln himself did.


what i do think is that he's been more effective on behalf of the left than clinton or carter, which does make us go back to jfk/lbj. VERY different times. given how conservative washington (if not the nation) is these days, it's hard to compare. lbj would never have been able to pass medicare today. and his long-term legacy was, politically, a rich vein for republicans, who pretty steadily gained power ever since.

[pundaint]

75. That line didn't sound all that credible when used by Bush apologists either.

[unblock]

89. the results are in on shrub. not hardly on obama.

there's very little that could possibly happen now that would turn the obvious shrub debacle into an apparent success in hindsight.

obama, on the other hand, is one and a half years into a four or eight year tenure, so it's rather difficult to judge his entire presidency no matter what standards one uses.

[pundaint]

67. Rachel was a breath of fresh air when she started, but she has bought into Obama, the way Fox bought

into Bush. Most of you are living in America - are you seeing Change? I don't need Rachel to try to convince me Change has happened. The only change I'm perceiving is in her credibility.

[great white snark]

86. So now Rachel is under the bus?

I live in America and yes I have seen change....change for the better. Rachel is probably the most intelligent commentator on tv, do you really think she can be "bought?" She has criticized and she has praised, it's not like she carries water for anyone.

[IndianaGreen]

88. Rachel and Olbermann were put under the bus two weeks ago

because they weren't enthusiastic enough about Big Brother. We do live in an Orwellian world. Those in opposition are labeled as followers of Emmanuel Goldstein, the bogeyman used by Big Brother to keep Oceania in a permanent state of war, just like the USA.

[NJmaverick]

97. Wow! I am quite familiar with the book you quote

and our nation is nothing like that. Unlike the world of 1984 you are free to speak your mind on the streets, the internet and at gatherings. The government has no control over what I say, do or think. Your characterization couldn't possibly be more inaccurate.

[pundaint]

109. The careful reader would be aware that she was accused of buying, not being sold.

[joe black]

128. Since her trip to the white house well, I'm keeping an eye on her.

[opihimoimoi]

90. BINGO.....what a breath of fresh air in the OVAL OFFICE...No Bush and No Cheney to Sour things

This man Obama is a HERO...he acts for the PEOLPLE

Them GOPers are all ZEROs....selfinterest...GOP = MEism

KnR

[AtomicKitten]

95. Nice nod to Pres Obama's governance. nt

[JitterbugPerfume]

96. Let history be the final judge

as it is for all of us

[ProSense]

117. Yes, but it doesn't take hindsight to acknowledge that he is the President who

passed health care reform, ending a nearly 100-year quest.

[JitterbugPerfume]

120. I think history

will be very kind to him

[brentspeak]

119. Strange -- Maddow herself didn't agree with that assessment concerning FDR and Obama

Jumbling unrelated links and opinions from other sources and attempting to make it look like Maddow herself thinks Obama is the new FDR (she doesn't) fell flat for you. Once again.

Keep trying.

[ProSense]

123. Here:

But presidential legacies are complex. Not even the Reagan administration`s legacy is pure as the conservative-driven snow. But Taegan Goddard at CQ Politics was right today about nothing this big happening since FDR.

link

Watch

[Marionette]

137. Good link

Thanks.

[Name removed]

124. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clio the Leo]

125. even better the 4th time! nt

[bookfreak]

126. We are living in glorious times.

:dance:

[amborin]

129. $7.3 trillion bank bailout was certainly transformational; banksters got $$$, ordinary folks little

[ProSense]

130. Really Obama spent $7 trillion?

Bailing out the banks was the a necessity. This is why the President is crediting with rescuing the economy. He made it work.

Also, I don't think people actually know what they want. On one hand Obama shouldn't have bailed out the banks, on the other hand they're clamoring for receivorships like AIG (which is part of the bailout).

[totodeinhere]

131. Yes. It was a sellout to the big banks and no accomplishment Obama should be proud of.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x356821

[ProSense]

132. It's

historic.

The critics can only present nitpicking with arguments that are vague and meaningless:

"Given where we were when this got started, I'd have to imagine the Wall Street firms are pretty happy."

Where did we start? No one expecting reform to pass. Given where we started, the banks and their lobbyists got their asses handed to them.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

138. Huh?

I have three words for anyone who believes that--Lyndon Baines Johnson

[ProSense]

142. Here are a few more words:

"The last time any president did this much in office, booze was illegal."

[Lydia Leftcoast]

147. Maybe Rachel is too young to remember the LBJ era

I'm not.

I remember the LBJ era, and the changes now are piddly and timid in comparison.

Half-assed tinkering around the edges of a rotten system (the Health Insurance Corporate Welfare Act) does not begin to match single-payer health care for seniors or a lot of other initiatives (the NDSL student loans that were 100% forgivable if you went into certain occupations, VISTA and other Great Society programs that the Republicans and their "moderate" allies in the Democratic Party subsequently killed or gutted) or the Civil Rights Act, which was extraordinary, take it from one who traveled in the South before it was passed.

[WI_DEM]

141. Don't let Brentspeak see this--he's the FDR expert.