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Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency |
Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:04 AM Original message |
"if that’s the acid test for a progressive president, then FDR, Truman & LBJ fail as well." |
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TreasonousBastard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:13 AM Response to Original message |
1. This makes too much sense. I'll add that while we have... |
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TBF (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:27 AM Response to Reply #1 |
2. If you privatize social security you can look forward to it being worse in the |
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RBInMaine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:35 AM Response to Reply #2 |
5. You're over-reacting bigtime. Take a breath. Dems are not seriously suggesting this. |
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TBF (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:50 AM Response to Reply #5 |
12. Look guys, I can read. You have to go no further than the morning's |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:57 AM Response to Reply #12 |
16. Obama has already said how easy it is to shore up Social Security. I've seen him at town halls say |
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TBF (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:06 AM Response to Reply #16 |
17. I like that fix - |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:22 AM Response to Reply #17 |
24. If the commission comes back with a more severe recommendation, as the article |
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TBF (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 09:23 AM Response to Reply #24 |
30. I hope that happens, |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 09:33 AM Response to Reply #30 |
32. I hope that is what happens too. |
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Donnachaidh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 12:50 PM Response to Reply #16 |
45. yeah, he says that in speeches while his catfood commission cleans off the surgical tools |
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CTLawGuy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 05:44 PM Response to Reply #12 |
57. only Congress can make changes to social security |
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onpatrol98 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-13-10 08:32 AM Response to Reply #57 |
80. Truth |
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RUMMYisFROSTED (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-15-10 08:55 AM Response to Reply #12 |
106. No mention of military and debt interest spending? |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:40 AM Response to Reply #2 |
9. Obama isn't going to privatize social security. |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:40 AM Response to Reply #9 |
27. No, just reduce benefits, increase the age of eligibility |
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joe black (514 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-13-10 11:15 AM Response to Reply #27 |
84. And eliminate the mortgage intrest deduction. |
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TomClash (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:54 AM Response to Reply #1 |
14. I agree partially |
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TreasonousBastard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:10 AM Response to Reply #14 |
20. Well, back in the 60s the two big things were the war and civil rights, with... |
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TomClash (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:20 AM Response to Reply #20 |
23. ". . . hope the populace wakes up." |
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RBInMaine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:33 AM Response to Original message |
3. In this era, "Progressives" need to re-calibrate their expectations to reality. It mean "progress." |
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izquierdista (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:14 AM Response to Reply #3 |
21. Calibrating expectations |
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boppers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 11:00 PM Response to Reply #21 |
72. What? |
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cornermouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:33 AM Response to Original message |
4. It is amazing the lengths that you'll go to. |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:39 AM Response to Reply #4 |
6. It is a column providing some history and perspective. That doesn't seem like a bad thing or a |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 04:49 PM Response to Reply #6 |
53. You should be banned |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 05:41 PM Response to Reply #53 |
56. Ha |
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fasttense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:39 AM Response to Original message |
7. America is just begging for a socialist revolution. |
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TreasonousBastard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:41 AM Response to Reply #7 |
10. Kewl! Go start your revolution so some basic liberal stuff doesn't look so bad. |
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WI_DEM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 10:05 AM Response to Reply #7 |
35. Yes, that is why barely 20% of American people identify themselves as liberals |
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Kahuna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 01:48 PM Response to Reply #7 |
47. Really? Got any proof that they are? |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:40 AM Response to Original message |
8. Deleted message |
geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:06 AM Response to Reply #8 |
18. One would think that those here who reject Obama as a failure |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:42 AM Response to Reply #18 |
28. Action both encourages and discourages |
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tomp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:42 AM Response to Original message |
11. fdr, truman, and lbj failures? |
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TBF (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:51 AM Response to Reply #11 |
13. Seriously, it was only due to the strength of the communist party |
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tomp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 10:49 AM Response to Reply #13 |
40. i'm quite inclined to believe that. |
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TBF (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-13-10 07:45 AM Response to Reply #40 |
79. Yes, and if the republicans have any brains in their heads they are going |
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onpatrol98 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-13-10 08:35 AM Response to Reply #79 |
81. Republicans really are clueless... |
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leveymg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:57 AM Response to Original message |
15. Please. If FDR had handled SS in 1935 as Obama did HCR in 2010, we'd have private insurance |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:16 AM Response to Reply #15 |
22. The key is FDR didn't handle health care reform. Here's FDR on the 1939 amendments to SS |
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leveymg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:45 AM Response to Reply #22 |
29. The original 1935 SS Bill was an old-age pension, but it covered about half of retirees from 1937 on |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 10:37 AM Response to Reply #29 |
38. "There is no real reason why it does not pay out benefits immediately" |
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leveymg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 01:58 PM Response to Reply #38 |
48. My understanding is that it doesn't fund said high-risk beneficiaries until 2014 |
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phleshdef (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-13-10 12:49 AM Response to Reply #48 |
75. You can't put a new, massive, stable subsidizing system in place in just a few years. |
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leveymg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-13-10 06:50 AM Response to Reply #75 |
77. There's already an infrastructure in place. It's called Medicare. |
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phleshdef (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-13-10 09:32 AM Response to Reply #77 |
82. Even had they expanded the existing medicare infrastructure, it couldn't be done overnight. |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-13-10 01:38 PM Response to Reply #82 |
86. Unfortunately it is an impediment |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:09 AM Response to Original message |
19. That was a well written article with plenty of food for thought |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:37 AM Response to Reply #19 |
25. Some decent historical perspective has been sorely lacking lately and is definitely needed. |
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Number23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:19 PM Response to Reply #25 |
63. Brother, you can say that again. |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:38 AM Response to Reply #19 |
26. HIGH FIVE!!!!&*%#*!%*! |
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BrklynLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 09:23 AM Response to Original message |
31. Makes me very, very sad for the future....my future, and that of my children and their children |
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Tsiyu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 09:49 AM Response to Original message |
33. Humans are humans |
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WI_DEM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 10:00 AM Response to Original message |
34. Oh my! somebody who actually provides historical reference. It's true "progressives" in '34 & '35 |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 10:31 AM Response to Reply #34 |
37. Yep. Huey Long would be very popular here and FDR would be a corporatist sell-out - not a traitor |
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Spazito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 12:49 PM Response to Reply #34 |
44. LOL, it seems some things never change... |
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HughMoran (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 10:25 AM Response to Original message |
36. That's quite an interesting article |
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Tarheel_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 10:42 AM Response to Original message |
39. Perspective is always good, even in the face of blind hatred. Thanks for posting. (nt) |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 11:20 AM Response to Reply #39 |
41. Spread it far and wide. |
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Tarheel_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 11:29 AM Response to Reply #41 |
42. You bet. |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 11:54 AM Response to Original message |
43. Good points on how the situations are different |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 01:09 PM Response to Original message |
46. Posted a Diary on this over at Daily Kos. |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 02:53 PM Response to Original message |
49. A bit of goal post moving |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 02:58 PM Response to Reply #49 |
50. +1000 nt |
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Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 04:11 PM Response to Reply #49 |
51. I wonder how the goal posts would have been perceived in 1935: |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:08 PM Response to Reply #51 |
61. Regardless |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 04:28 PM Response to Reply #49 |
52. You don't think |
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cornermouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 04:53 PM Response to Reply #52 |
54. How is it a progressive victory when I'm going to lose/exchange |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 06:11 PM Response to Reply #54 |
58. "when I'm going to lose/exchange my cheap and accessible" |
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ncteechur (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 09:49 PM Response to Reply #58 |
69. Yes, I'd like to know exactly what insurance you have that is cheap and accessible. |
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ChimpersMcSmirkers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 06:24 PM Response to Reply #54 |
59. Don't worry the pukes will come it and repeal it for you before it costs you a dime. |
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cornermouse (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:57 PM Response to Reply #59 |
66. Why would the GOP repeal it? |
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boppers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 11:06 PM Response to Reply #54 |
73. Me three. |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 07:55 PM Response to Reply #52 |
60. No |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 04:54 PM Response to Reply #49 |
55. Obama didn't campaign for what you say the goal was. |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:09 PM Response to Reply #55 |
62. Nor is it progressive |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 09:23 PM Response to Reply #62 |
67. You can characterize it however you want |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-13-10 06:56 AM Response to Reply #67 |
78. Not exactly |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-13-10 11:11 AM Response to Reply #78 |
83. True, But |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-13-10 01:35 PM Response to Reply #83 |
85. Not in reality |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-13-10 05:14 PM Response to Reply #85 |
88. If one is allowed to change the very core meaning |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-14-10 09:26 AM Response to Reply #88 |
89. But that's not the cadillac tax |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-14-10 12:46 PM Response to Reply #89 |
90. 1) You don't understand the definition |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-14-10 12:58 PM Response to Reply #90 |
91. Progressive tax |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-14-10 01:13 PM Response to Reply #91 |
92. incorrect definition. |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-14-10 01:23 PM Response to Reply #92 |
93. It wasn't "aimed" |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-14-10 02:55 PM Response to Reply #93 |
94. The significant difference is one tells "how it works" |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-14-10 03:02 PM Response to Reply #94 |
95. Um, you did see the negotiations at the WH right? |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-14-10 03:13 PM Response to Reply #95 |
96. Your request makes no sense |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-14-10 03:19 PM Response to Reply #96 |
97. to the regressive nature of the cadillac tax |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-14-10 03:30 PM Response to Reply #97 |
98. Because the tax is 0 until the benefit exceeds |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-14-10 03:48 PM Response to Reply #98 |
99. The tax is disconnected from income |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-14-10 04:16 PM Response to Reply #99 |
100. It doesn't have to be an income tax |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-15-10 07:05 AM Response to Reply #100 |
102. Bascally, it does |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-14-10 05:59 PM Response to Reply #99 |
101. Krugman on this |
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zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-15-10 07:08 AM Response to Reply #101 |
103. He doesn't dispute my points |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-15-10 07:14 AM Response to Reply #103 |
104. nor mine. nt |
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stevenleser (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:25 PM Response to Reply #55 |
65. I can read what ignored said to you. But no President ever achieves all of his goals |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 09:24 PM Response to Reply #65 |
68. probably true |
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hulka38 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 08:24 PM Response to Original message |
64. Who is Beinart? Let's look back at his credibility on huge issues: |
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girl gone mad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 10:16 PM Response to Reply #64 |
70. Typical right-wing enabler posing as a liberal. |
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hulka38 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-12-10 10:20 PM Response to Reply #70 |
71. He's a very persuasive beltway fool. |
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spoony (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-15-10 08:01 AM Response to Reply #64 |
105. Illuminating. nt |
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reggie the dog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-13-10 12:14 AM Response to Original message |
74. the author lost me when they suggested that the health care bill |
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bobburgster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-13-10 05:52 AM Response to Original message |
76. Well stated..... |
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Scurrilous (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-13-10 03:18 PM Response to Original message |
87. Kick |
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