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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 11:40 AM
Original message
Judging Obama

Judging Obama

by Jerome a Paris

The debate on whether it is more appropriate to say that Obama has done a lot or that he has done too little regularly divides DailyKos, and I'd like to tackle it from a slightly different perspective, to say that this is not really about Obama, but about the perspective of the different groups about our civilisation.

I would like to propose that those who think that Obama has not done enough consider that the current system is profoundly failing, and that it is time for systemic changes, instead of the tinkering they see Obama doing, whereas those that tend to focus on what Obama has done think that the system is flawed, but mendable, and that Obama is doing just that, moving things back in the right direction.

And the fact is - we don't know yet what group is right, and we may not know for a few more years.

First, I think there is a number of things that most here agree with:

  1. Obama inherited a mess, and he has no responsibility in creating it. The financial meltdown, the economic recession, the budget crisis, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were all created by the policies of the Bush years (or the policies run since the Reagan revolution, if you want to look at the bigger picture);

  2. he is facing a nastily partisan Republican party backed by a well-run and highly effective media / noise machine. They were bullies while in power, and they have adapted similarly shamelessly ugly behavior now that they are in opposition;

  3. Obama ran on "change" - including a change in the way politics were run in Washington - that included going back to listening to actual experts rather than hacks, and it also included trying to move away from partisanship and trying to reconcile opposing view points. He's done both of these
Now here's a list of the points where fundamental disagreement pop up:

  1. the bank bailout, however distasteful, was necessary to save the economy, and Obama was right to support it (alternatively: the bailout of the banks is the original sin of this administration: it has not solved anything and wasted massive amounts of money; the economy is still in the doldrums while bankers make even more money than before);

  2. the stimulus plan was unprecedented in its scope and content, and it worked to support the economy at the worst time, and things are now improving (the stimulus was far too small and the economy is now on the verge of collapsing again, the administration does not seem to care about the incredibly widespread and persistent unemployment) ;

  3. the troops are leaving Iraq; the fight in Afghanistan, while incredibly difficult, was and is the right thing to do because leaving would create new dangers (Iraq is still occupied, Afghanistan is a lost cause, draining massive resources which can ill be afforded, Guantanamo is still open );

  4. the healthcare bill is a massive improvement for many American families and sets in tone the principle that everybody has a right to healthcare coverage (it's a massive giveaway to insurance companies which will find their way around the new rules, meanwhile healthcare costs continue to increase);

  5. Obama did that, and a lot more (2 competent women in the Supreme Court and many more) despite the systematic and outright evil opposition of the Republicans at every step (Obama has failed to use the bully pulpit to push for his preferred options, choosing backroom negotiations with lobbies and giving up too much too early, and watering down policies for the sake of illusory bipartisanship);
Fundamentally, such contrasting opinions on the meaning of basic facts (which are themselves not really in dispute) can only be explained by profound differences on deeply held beliefs about where we are going.

<…>

And the fact is, we don't know yet if the economy will move back to growth soon; we don't know for sure if the financial system is back on its feet or just zombie-like; we don't know how climate change will affect each of us and our civilisation even if we accept that change is on the way; we don't really see how we would do without oil ; and we don't really know how to move away from the financial optimisation logic which drive everything today - or let alone agree whether it is a good thing to do so.

But all of this suggests that we should discuss our future rather than trying to judge Obama - as that judgement depends a lot more on our vision for the future than on our assessment of what he has done.



On the bailout, Elixabeth Warren made the same point as above. In June, Warren isssued a report stating that the government should have acted much earlier, long before September 2008, to effect a private rescue, which she said could have been difficult or impossible, but definitely worth trying. When it was too late, the decision to rescue was made in a panic, but it was successful, albeit an enormous cost.

Video of the COP's June report

From the report (PDF):

The rescue of AIG distorted the marketplace by transforming highly risky derivative bets into fully guaranteed payment obligations. In the ordinary course of business, the costs of AIG‟s inability to meet its derivative obligations would have been borne entirely by AIG‟s shareholders and creditors under the well-established rules of bankruptcy. But rather than sharing the pain among AIG‟s creditors – an outcome that would have maintained the market discipline associated with credit risks – the government instead shifted those costs in full onto taxpayers out of a belief that demanding sacrifice from creditors would have destabilized the markets. The result was that the government backed up the entire derivatives market, as if these trades deserved the same taxpayer backstop as savings deposits and checking accounts.

One consequence of this approach was that every counterparty received exactly the same deal: a complete rescue at taxpayer expense. Among the beneficiaries of this rescue were parties whom taxpayers might have been willing to support, such as pension funds for retired workers and individual insurance policy holders. But the across-the-board rescue also benefitted far less sympathetic players, such as sophisticated investors who had profited handsomely from playing a risky game and who had no reason to expect that they would be paid in full in the event of AIG‟s failure. Other beneficiaries included foreign banks that were dependent on contracts with AIG to maintain required regulatory capital reserves. Some of those same banks were also counterparties to other AIG CDSs.

<...>

Through a series of actions, including the rescue of AIG, the government succeeded in averting a financial collapse, and nothing in this report takes away from that accomplishment. But this victory came at an enormous cost. Billions of taxpayer dollars were put at risk, a marketplace was forever changed, and the confidence of the American people was badly shaken. How the government will manage those costs, both in the specific case of AIG and in the more general case of TARP, remains a central challenge – one the Panel will continue to review.


Krugman on the stimulus: Too Little of a Good Thing

The Iraq war is ending and withdrawal from Afghanistan is on track to begin in 2011.



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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. There are more than two alternatives -- I've got a third perspective
My feeling for a long time has been that we can't look to government for transformational change, because the primary function of government is to keep things as they exist on an even keel.

I do believe that transformational change is necessary -- but that it has to come from the grassroots and not from above.

In that context, what I expect of Obama is for him to hold back the forces of darkness and create a safe space within which the real work can happen organically.

And that's where I have very mixed feelings -- up one moment and down the next -- rather than the either/or dichotomy cited in the OP.

By my lights, Obama is doing some of the right things -- but he's also doing some very wrong ones. He's perpetuating Bush's wars and Bush's security state. He's not fighting back hard enough against the destruction of the middle class and of such middle class mainstays as schools and libraries. And he's letting the Republican right get away with primitivizing the public discourse in a deeply undemocratic and un-American manner.

So at this point, I'm more unhappy than happy -- and it has nothing to do with whether or not Obama is proven to be "right" in his policy decisions a few years down the road.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. How
is the President doing this:

"And he's letting the Republican right get away with primitivizing the public discourse in a deeply undemocratic and un-American manner."

In fact, in one of the most profound ways, the President is standing up for the rights of Americans.

There are a lot of things that the President cannot control, and one is what Republicans choose to talk about.






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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. He hasn't used the bully pulpit or sent his troops out to counter GOP lies
I understand the media always takes being the GOP echo machine as its default position. But the Democrats could be a whole lot louder and more visible than they are.

Obama has finally stood up for the rights of Muslim Americans -- though it took him a while to get there -- but neither he nor his surrogates have condemned the Muslim-bashers in unequivocal terms.

The president can't control what Republicans say -- but he could avoid giving them an empty town square to do it in.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Troops?
You're criticizing the President for not sending his troops out while blaming him for what Republicans say?


"The president can't control what Republicans say -- but he could avoid giving them an empty town square to do it in."

That really doesn't square with reality: The WH isn't sitting back and letting Republicans frame the debate.



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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. I agree
"But all of this suggests that we should discuss our future rather than trying to judge Obama - as that judgement depends a lot more on our vision for the future than on our assessment of what he has done."

My vision of the future: progressives should oppose centrist policies, especially since Democrats have a greater advantage in government than they are likely to have in the future.

This poster describes the disagreements fairly, imo. The thing that I find troubling is that the disagreements appear to me to be the natural disagreements between progressives and centrists, and that Obama is taking the centrist position. Actually I've never found it troubling that Obama is a centrist, what I find troubling is that so many progressives are denying it. Especially with the right-wing propaganda about Obama being a leftist.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. It's an excellent piece. n/t
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dccrossman Donating Member (530 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. K & R
:kick:

The op is excellent reading for those interested in seeing two sides of the equation and actually thinking through the issues. There seems to be a core rationale that Obama could be no more or less than what he is, because of the system. I don't see him as that powerless myself.


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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. Howard Dean:
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
12. No comments from the unrec'ers? n/t
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Nope. There's nothing they can say that would make sense so they unrec and run. n/t
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. K&R. :)
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
15. Not facts.

"And the fact is, we don't know yet if the economy will move back to growth soon; we don't know for sure if the financial system is back on its feet or just zombie-like; we don't know how climate change will affect each of us and our civilisation even if we accept that change is on the way; we don't really see how we would do without oil ; and we don't really know how to move away from the financial optimisation logic which drive everything today - or let alone agree whether it is a good thing to do so."


The economy is not going to move back to growth in a real way soon. The manufacturing foundation to build sustainable growth is gone. Service economies are by products of healthy manufacturing economies. They are not sustainable economies in and of themselves. Wasting trillions of taxpayer dollars in non-deficit neutral giveaways to free market, non regulated, failed institutions certainly doesn't encourage plentiful, well paid pensioned service economy jobs. There is no such animal.

The financial system is back on the same criminal feet it was on before the collapse, a few minor regulation changes isn't going to alter that. Massive fraud is continuing on top of a even more massive 10 year pile of fraud hidden from view and yet to see the light of day or courts.

Climate change will be devastating, it already is.

We will not do well without oil. In fact we are in for a world of hurt. Any fool can see that. All we have to do is point to our current resource wars.


None of this is an unforeseen, unpredictable mystery.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Speaking of not facts:
Edited on Mon Aug-16-10 08:21 PM by ProSense
You pulled this out of the OP: "And the fact is, we don't know yet if the economy will move back to growth soon"


You responded with: "The economy is not going to move back to growth in a real way soon. The manufacturing foundation to build sustainable growth is gone."

The fact is you don't know when the economy will rebound and manufacturing is the bright spot.

From the WSJ:

Overall, "manufacturing has come back much stronger than it did in the last two recessions," said Wells Fargo senior economist Mark Vitner.



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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. You've cried "green shoots!" too many times over the last year.
Manufacturing isn't even close to rebounding (are you serious?)lol.

As far as cars go-


General Motors Co. and Ford Motor Co. posted their smallest U.S. sales gains of the year, while America Honda Co. and Toyota Motor declined as July results fell short of forecasts.

Total industry sales advanced 5 percent from a year earlier for the smallest monthly increase since January. The seasonally adjusted annual selling rate was 11.55 million, the year's third highest.

Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20100803/CARNEWS/100809962#ixzz0wp6A0RrR
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-10 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Did you look at the chart from your link:
Automaker July 2010 July 2009 Pct. chng. 7 month 2010 7 month 2009 Pct. chng

TOTAL .....1,050,180 997,982 ...5%..........6,665,180.......5,807,858....15%


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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-17-10 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Well, GE is bringing back a whole 100 jobs
Cut from once union wages of $22/hour to now a current $12-13 an hour.

Otherwise, manufacturing is down and there is no *other* inkling that any appreciable recovery will occur anytime soon.

Nice try :eyes:
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