I am part of that all important BASE too!!!

[27inCali]

and I'm sick of the whining and defeatism too. It's based in unrealistic expectations. It's unrealistic to have expected this economy to have recovered by now, like we are going to bleed 8 million jobs in a year and Obama is just gonna pull 8 million jobs out of his ass like a rabbit out of a hat? Here in pour all the Obama bashers telling me he should of listened to Krugman etc etc. Maybe Krugman didn't have the answer either, maybe there is no easy answer like so many of the most vocal Obama critics claim.

even if we attacked the problem with the most Liberal and Keynesian approach, we'd still all be hurting bad. Damage this bad doesn't get fixed so easily, especially with so many corporate plants in either party in the Congress doing everything they can to hamper decent legislation.

and yet, that's the demand from that unhappy ten percent left: FIX THESE PROBLEMS WHICH ARE THE RESULT OF 30 YEARS OF BAD POLICY, BUT YOU ONLY HAVE TWO YEARS TO DO IT AND WE WONT EVEN GIVE YOU THOSE TWO YEARS, BECAUSE WE WILL CRITICIZE YOU AND HOBBLE YOU IN THE POLLS AND ATTACK YOU WITH LIES AND INNUENDO AND OUT OF CONTEXT QUOTES ALL THE WAY THROUGH THOSE TWO YEARS.

yeah, should anyone be surprised, there are plenty of Liberals on this board who ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY agree with Biden about the "whining" comment. All we care about is getting our country back on it's feet. Maybe we don't want to do it the exact way that the furthest Left 10% of the Left wing of the party wants to do it (maybe they can embrace Democracy and accept they are out-voted in their own party), and maybe we're sick of being called zombies and watching our leaders be attacked from their own side simply because they aren't radical enough to appease the perennial anti-establishment types, but all that anti-establishment posuery helps no one -keeping the Republicans away from any form of control of this country? -infinitely more important than following a bunch of self-serving, anti-establishment columnists over the cliff of ultimate righteousness.

[treestar]

1. K&R!

:kick:

:yourock:

[jaxx]

2. +1

[zipplewrath]

3. We all are

But apparently the base is never suppose to complain, or point out that the emperor has no clothes.

[treestar]

6. Not when there is an election coming up

But not real base needs to be told that.

[27inCali]

8. I'm all for complaining

after the election, when the Republicans still don't have the majority and are less relevant than they are now, at which point, it would be a great idea for the Left to get all in the face of the party establishment to say "WE SAVED YOUR ASS! NOW GIVE US SOME REALLY PROGRESSIVE LEGISLATION!!!!!"

that's a winning strategy, not attack the Democrats until the Repugs are back in power......that furthers a Liberal agenda exactly how?

[zipplewrath]

15. This is how

This is a congressional election, not a presidential one. The congressional candidates are running AWAY from Obama. One wants them to be running TOWARDS you. They can't know where to run if you don't tell them.

[FSogol]

4. K & R.

BTW, did spell check choke on Absofuckinglutely?

[rurallib]

5. Thanks to fFUX we can no longer legitimately criticize the president

without having any and all criticism thrown up at us as splitting the party and disloyalty.
This is really sad and a true disservice to the country. But it is great for the cable "news" shows and especially great for the propaganda arm of the republican party AKA Fox News.

And as for me I see some glaring errors that Obama has mad and I reserve my right to speak out as any true American should be able to.

[27inCali]

17. so much of the criticism is unfair

based on out and out lies or baseless innuendo or anti-establishment one-up-manship. All that bullshit drowns out the legitimate criticism.

[rurallib]

20. and that is the game that the RW media plays

MAn, sometime the left must wake up and make a true attempt at owning some media.
If there were true media competition in this country, the crap that Fox pulls would not fly.
They learned during the tobacco wars that muddying an issue can so confuse the public that it basically stops all progress.

[Hansel]

21. Legitmate yes. But some of it is not.

You can watch the progression of stuff some posters have made up out of fear and hysteria develop into "God's truth" on this site. Some spread rumors with no facts to back them up and then repeat them over and over. Then they begin to believe their own stories and pretend it is fact. I've seen right wing rags posted to back up supposed legitimate criticism as well as opinion based on dubious sources stated as fact.

Some pretend to be experts on things that it is painfully clear that they haven't got a clue about, especially those who claim he is a corporatist. I've worked in the financial corporate world most of my career (with people all the way up to the top) and I can guarantee you that he is not (nor is any Democrat) beloved by corporate leaders like some pretend on this board. Their posts are as laughable as they are pervasive.

Dubious criticisms are then repeated in every thread no matter how unrelated it is to the topic. We get it the 1st 3 thousand times it is said. Most of us can think, research and come to conclusions for ourselves so if it is legitimate criticism, we get it. But, based on posts I have read, many of us don't believe that Obama is a right wing corporatist or a war monger or that he is just like Bush or that he is doing anything much different from how he campaigned. We also know that he is not God or a dictator and that he has a handful of Blue Dogs and a slew of right wing juvenile Republicans that screw a lot of what he is trying to accomplish up. And we know he is not perfect but a hell of a lot better than most.

My criticism is against the Blue Dogs and Republicans because that is where it belongs. And why this board does not focus as much or more time on them is a mystery. Or not.

[Pirate Smile]

7. Kick & Recommend

The negativity and the constant victim-hood is like an anchor pulling everyone down.



For Gawd's sake, let some of the s@#t go.

[mike_c]

9. get back to me when your heroes do something significant to reduce the influence...

...of the Pentagon and the Military Industrial Complex in American domestic and foreign policy. Or when they make genuine inroads against corporate hegemony. Or when they implement policies that put protecting the environment before protecting business profits. Or when human rights policies trump political gamesmanship. And so on.

I'm sorry-- for many of us on the left, the democrats in power are only better than the republicans who want to displace them by a matter of degrees, not in terms of fundamental disagreements about the direction of the country. I'm not disappointed with the Obama administration because it hasn't moved fast enough-- I'm disappointed because it does not have a fundamentally different vision for America than most conservatives do.

[27inCali]

12. I'm sure the MIC is going to go easily into the night

and the corporations too, and Obama should of been able to turn the tide on all that in two years -with two wars and a massive economic collapse to deal with.

taking out the corporations/banks/mic is going to be a lot harder than you think if you are expecting one guy to come in and change that in two years.

[mike_c]

18. the point I'm making is that he isn't even trying to do any of those things...

...because he fundamentally agrees with the direction this country is taking (or at least his actions are consistent with such agreement-- obviously, I can't read his mind).

I think you've mistaken the motives of many on the left. We're not angry because Obama isn't moving fast enough-- although if he did move faster on some matters, like ending DADT by executive order-- many on the left would certainly approve. But the real disappointment for many of us is that the Obama administration is philosophically too much a part of the America we despise-- the corporate state, the security state, the military-industrial complex. I'm less concerned about whether change is incremental or revolutionary than I am about whether the people in charge simply recognize that we're well down the wrong road and need to change direction DRAMATICALLY. I just don't see any will to do that at all in this administration or in the democratic congress.

[yurbud]

10. I want the Democrats to win. At the same time, we have to be realistic about what Obama

and Democrats in Congress did along the way.

Did they try for tougher reforms or did they jump immediately to a deeply compromised position?

Did they pressure progressives or conservative Democrats?

[yurbud]

11. We aren't the furthest left 10%, we are the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY

and the tiny minority with the help of corporate money has grabbed the steering wheel.

[27inCali]

16. I think you are conflating issues

of course the vast majority of American's hate the corporate influence and want it gone.

the argument is : Obama as corporate hack who must be defeated -yes or no?

[DirkGently]

24. Talk about conflating issues. Criticism doesn't equal voting in Republicans.

[yurbud]

25. No--Obama has chosen corporate appeasement too often and must change course to avoid losing

the enthusiastic support of Democratic voters.

He's on the verge of doing that again with education ''reform'' dictated by Wall St. and real estate moguls.

[DirkGently]

13. Leaders who tell their constituents to stop whining, should stop whining.

[ClarkUSA]

28. Some people here need to stop whining about whining and GET OUT THE VOTE!

Stop whining about whining! GET OUT THE ******* VOTE!

We need to GOTV and donate, campaign and volunteer as much as we able too.

Stop this nonsense about who is whining and who isn't! I don't give a shit.

What I do give a shit about is the threat of Republicans getting control of the House and the Senate.

IF THAT HAPPENS WE WILL ALL HAVE SOMETHING TO WHINE ABOUT!

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/9/28/906029/-Stop-whining-about-whining!-GET-OUT-THE-VOTE!

[stray cat]

14. The base did not elect Obama - frankly 30% does not win an election

[DirkGently]

23. He ran as a liberal. Close Gitmo. Public Option. End Iraq. Moderate-right didn't elect him either.

[Phx_Dem]

19. Ditto. I stand with Obama and Biden, not the whiners.

[ProSense]

22. "Maybe Krugman didn't have the answer either"

This reminds me of all the calls for President Obama to replace Summers with Krugman. To which Krugman responded:

PS: And no, not me. Aside from the fact that I’m in a pretty good place for influencing public discussion right now, the job does come with some administrative responsibilities, and also requires significant bureaucratic skills. I has them — not.

There are a lot of people out there with ideas and opinions, and some of them are really good, but not all of them want the job some people think they'd be good at.

This happened with Elizabeth Warren too. People were demanding that she be appointed to the CFPB. Yet when the President appoints her, he's criticized for not doing it a certain way with no consideration of what Elizabeth Warren wants. Still, these choices are the President's to make.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

26. I am one of those liberals who *ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY* agrees with Joe! Go, Joe!

Tell 'em like it is!! Love him!

And he is 100% right!!!

[Hekate]

27. Righteous rant. KnR.