Obama has failed on healthcare reform.

[cali]

He failed to fight for the public option. He failed to lead. He cared more for moderate republican and and conservative dem votes than for doing the right thing. Obama failed and the Senate leadership failed.

Here's hoping that liberal Senators vote against this fucked up legislation.

[MercutioATC]

1. We don't have a final result yet, so it's silly to say he has "failed".

By all appearances, he's "failing" to lead on health care reform but, without a product, the results of his actions (and inactions) cannot yet be judged.

[cali]

5. fine. he's failing on healthcare reform. Personally, I have little doubt

that the end product will be a fucking mess that helps very few.

[MercutioATC]

11. Judging by the effectiveness of our government and our society in general, I'd agree.

I think you'll find that I'm no Obama cheerleader, but I'm fair about it. I fully agree that he has provided very little apparent leadership on this (and many other issues). I simply took issue with his failure on this issue as a final conclusion.

That said, we tend to screw up more than we get right so I fully expect them to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[waterscalm]

41. Looks like the Senate will indeed drop the Pub Option!!.....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/08/AR2009120804388.html?hpid=topnews

Senate may drop public option




By Shailagh Murray and Lori Montgomery
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, December 9, 2009

Democratic Senate negotiators struck a tentative agreement Tuesday night to drop the controversial government-run insurance plan from their overhaul of the health-care system, hoping to remove a last major roadblock preventing the bill from moving to a final vote in the chamber.

In addition, people as young as 55 would be permitted to buy into Medicare, the popular federal health program for retirees. And private insurance companies would face stringent new regulations, including a requirement that they spend at least 90 cents of every dollar they collect in premiums on medical services for their customers.

The announcement came after six days of negotiations among 10 Democrats -- five liberals and five moderates -- appointed by Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) to work out differences between the two camps on the public option and other pressing issues. Appearing in the Capitol with Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.), the leader of the liberal faction, and Sen. Mark Pryor (D-Ark.), representing moderates, Reid hailed the deal as a broad agreement that has the potential to "overcome a real problem that we had" and push the measure to final Senate vote before Christmas.

"Not everyone is going to agree with every piece," Reid said. But when asked whether the deal means the end is in sight after nearly a year of work on President Obama's most important domestic initiative, he smiled. "The answer's yes," he said. ....:puke:

[Tansy_Gold]

2. Help me out here. Has he really succeeded at anything?

Other than escalating the war on Afghanistan, that is.

Has he actually accomplished anything that actually helps the majority of American people? Oh, short term he mortgaged some more of our future to keep the states and cities from firing all their teachers and cops and firefighters through the stimulus but other than that. . . .



(do we have a crickets smiley/frowney? I didn't think so)






Tansy Gold, disgusted

[Buzz Clik]

6. I'm sorry. I thought I was reading the Democratic Underground. Yes, yes, I am.

And I have to tolerate this kind of blind, baseless attack on the sitting Democratic president?

Just because Obama has not "succeeded" on your one or two pet issues is not an indication that he has no successes.

I really think you'd be more comfortable at a less Democratic site.

[MNDemNY]

13. Why not, we have to tolerate your blind-baseless support of all that is Obama.

[Buzz Clik]

32. And there it is -- more baseless bullshit.

Exactly what is it of Obama's that I blindly support? I have come here and said, "Obama has been a success on everything he has done?"

Take off.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MNDemNY]

112. ..

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[27inCali]

131. I knowingly support him

because in the first year he's already done a number of meaningful things to benefit me, my family and others like me.

I've seen it demonstrated in front of my own eyes. The man is doing some good. He could probably do more if so many Liberals weren't such fucking megalomaniac control freaks.

[wellst0nev0ter]

14. I Voted For Obama To Get Results

Not so I can idol worship him. :eyes:

[calico1]

16. You know, one thing most people here agreed on

when bush was in office is that intelligent minded people do not march lock step behind a leader and never question. I certainly do not want to be like that. Do you?

I don't think anyone here hates the President but we have a right to be critical of him when he has shown to not follow through on promises he made during the campaign.

[Buzz Clik]

34. More DU speak. "Marching in lock step." Next, you'll be calling me a cheerleader.

For your information, here at DU, marching in lockstep would be bashing Obama on a daily basis.

And, yes, I think I can honestly say that the poster to whom I responded hates Obama; otherwise, he/she would not have claimed that Obama is a complete failure.

[calico1]

51. Not sure what you mean by "DU speak" since

I don't post here that often.

I think we have the right to criticize any of our leaders including the ones we voted for if we are not happy with them. That is what a lot of posters are doing. It is a bit extreme to call that "hate."

[Buzz Clik]

57. After nearly 8,000 posts, I think you've got a good insight into how DU functions.

And, you didn't say that Tansy_Gold's post was "hate". I did, and I stand by it.

[calico1]

64. Check my recent posts.

I have not been posting that often recently. Sometimes not for weeks at a time. That is what I meant.

I interpret Tansy Gold's post as deep disappointment and frustration, just like a lot of us are feeling. I didn't read any hate in that post. That is a bit extreme imo.

[Tansy_Gold]

88. I have NEVER said I hate Obama

And you damn well know it.

I don't like some of his appointments.

I thoroughly detest some of his policies.

I'm frustrated with his lack of progress on key issues.

But hate him? No, not at all. And I have never said I did. I just wish he'd get off his ass and get to work. That's what we elected him to do.




Tansy Gold

[Buzz Clik]

93. You admire someone you consider to be a total failure?

Nice try, but it's too late to wordsmith your post.

[Tansy_Gold]

100. I never said I admire him either.

I actually AM a "wordsmith," having made my living with my words on more than one occasion.

I rarely hate those I admire, and I rarely admire those I hate. But because I don't hate someone doesn't mean I admire them. It's not an either/or proposition.

I think Obama is a bright man, and I think he's a very good campaigner. He's an excellent speaker. But I don't think he had a firm grasp on just how difficult it would be to be president, and I don't think he came into the office with the experience, knowledge, and self-empowerment to be an effective leader. I did think, however, that one of the reasons he tapped Biden for VP was because Biden DID have the senatorial experience, rather similar to the Kennedy/Johnson match-up.

I also believed then and believe now that an Obama/Clinton ticket would have been a slam-dunk, that Hillary would have wiped the floor with Palin (who probably would not have been on the McCain ticket if Hillary were with Obama but it woulda been a hoot to watch them), and that Hillary did NOT have the congressional experience Obama desperately needed. Winning the election was one thing, but running the country was another, and I just didn't see the two of them as having the muscle necessary to effect the changes needed.

I also believe that in most respects Obama's heart is in the right (left) place, but he really doesn't have a clue how to get his agenda in motion, much less passed. Clueless, he relied on experienced people like Emanuel and Rubin and others, most of whom had been directly or indirectly responsible for creating the problems Obama said he wanted to fix. People like Volcker were outsiders, and as such they were effectively excluded from the policy making.

I used to write romance novels for a living and one of the criticisms romance fiction received (and probably still does) was that the happily ever after ending left a lot of loose ends, especially when the hero and heroine had often fought each other tooth and toenail through the first 350 pages of the book. The reality of relationships is that the wedding is often the BEGINNING of the real relationship, not "the end."

And I believe the same is true of Obama. He ran a brilliant campaign and won an important election. But now that's all over and now he has to govern. So far, the big-ticket issues have not been dealt with in a manner that fulfills the promises he made. Yes, there have been accomplishments. I'd be stupid to say that there haven't. But the failures are huge and they are front-page huge and they are on the signature issues.

Obama is the president, and he doesn't "control" congress. But he is also the de facto leader of his party -- OUR party -- and he needs to step up to the plate and knock in a few runs. Swinging a big bat in the on deck circle won't win the pennant.


Tansy Gold

[Tansy_Gold]

22. Okay, so tell me what he HAS succeeded on.

Tax reform?

Jobs?

Health CARE reform (not gifts to the insurance companies)

Transparency?

Main Street over Wall Street?

DADT?

Mountaintop removal mining?

Climate change?

Energy independence?



Obama did say during the campaign that he would escalate the war on Afghanistan. So he's succeeded there.

and don't give me any crap about my pet issues. I'm not gay and I'm too old to joibn the military, so DADT doesn't affect me. I don't live in coal country, so the effects of fouled streams and poisoned ground water don't affect me either. But I am a member of the global community and ALL these matters matter to me.

I was crucified here on DU for my criticism of Obama's appointment of Geithner. Everyone was on the Obama victory bandwagon in November 2008 and I -- not alone, however -- dared to criticize the annointed man-child. Nobody here has shut me up yet, and I'm still waiting for the cheerleaders to point out to me where the successes are.

Oh, yes, indeedy, the DJIA has gone up. How has that benefited the majority of Americans? The ones who hadn't already lost 50% or more of their pension funds, their 401(k)s, their kids' college savings? How many good solid manufacturing jobs, that benefit both the employees and the economy as a whole have come back? Didn't he come right out and tell us the other day that those jobs ARE NOT coming back? Does he have a clue that he just said the US and the American economy and the American worker are fucking dead to him?

Am I angry? You bet your sweet little ass I'm angry. I'm tired of listening/reading this smarmy cheerleader pap about how wonderful he is. He hasn't done squat, except whine to John Conyers for dissing him. That's as bad as Birch Bayh whining to Parade Magazine back in 1969 that his biggest complaing about his constituents was that they couldn't spell his name right.

Give me a fucking break, Barack. Get off your ass, wipe the Pepsodent smile off your face, take off the cool shades, and get your ass to work. Your job isn't to be a fashion plate; it's to be President of the United States of America, leader -- not poster model -- of the free world. Act like it!



Tansy Gold

[SemiCharmedQuark]

25. I think anyone who has perused your journal knows what your stance is.

[Tansy_Gold]

38. WTF? Perusing my journal would tell you that I'm a socialist

who has been screaming about jobs for a year or more.


So, what's that supposed to mean?


Sheesh.




TG, who oughta know better than to venture into GDP but can't help herself sometimes

[SemiCharmedQuark]

42. I mean that your "I TOLD YOU SO!" posts don't give the impression you are open minded

Any more than someone's journal who said "Obama is the bestest president since FDR! or EVER!" would suggest they are open minded.

[Tansy_Gold]

72. But "I Told You So" is after the fact

I did tell you -- personally and rhetorically -- that Geithner (and Summers and Rubin) was going to be a catastrophe. Was I wrong?

I'm still asking -- show me where the Obama administration, under Obama's direct leadership, has accomplished or even made a real serious start on accomplishing the campaign goals.

Since you don't seem able to do it, I'll help you cheat and give you one.

They passed the estate tax continuation.

Did you even notice that? Probably not, unless you're one of the tiny tiny tiny minority of people who will be affected by it.

Actually, I AM open to evidence that Obama hasn't failed. We all are. But there was no health CARE reform by August or Thanksgiving, and it doesn't look now like there will be any before the end of the year. Buy-in to Medicare at $865/month? Not for me, on my income of about $1500/month. I'll just hope I can stick it out another 46 months until I'm 65.

The Obama presidency is almost a year old. All the "wait 'til he's inaugurated" and "wait 'til you see what he'll do in the first 100 days" and "give him six months" pleas are falling by the wayside with not a whole lot to show for them.

If some of us became impatient with Obama, it's because he presented himself as a candidate who would get things done. "Chill the fuck out; I got this" hasn't happened. We have a Nobel Peace Prize winner who is escalating a war, and that's the only real promise he's fulfilled so far.

Do I expect him to be a "magic Negro" who waves his wand and wonderful things happen? No, but I do expect him, with a solid Democratic majority in both the House and Senate, to get things done. And if it means he goes to those Senators and he goes to those congresspeople and tells them that the American people elected him and them to effect change, if it means he gets on the tee vee and spells it out, then I expect him to do that.

It's great that he smiles and he has a lovely wife and two cute kids. It's nice that he doesn't stumble over simple words when he speaks. It's nice that he isn't afraid to travel to foreign countries. But nice doesn't cut it any more. Nice isn't bringing back the jobs that we NEED, that are absolutely and fundamentally essential to a vibrant healthy national economy. Nice isn't providing urgently needed health care to 46,000,000 americans. Nice isn't stopping the wars. Nice isn't bringing Wall Street madness under control.

Nice ain't doin' shit.



Tansy Gold

[jpak]

130. OK - let's go through your list

Tax reform - Obama will let the Bush Billionaire Tax Cuts expire next year - not renew them or make them permanent. Obama proposed a $500-1000 tax cut for middle income Americans (the GOP reduced that to $400-800).

Jobs - Obama's Stimulus Bill created or saved 0.6-1.6 million jobs. Obama turned the US economy from tanking at -6.4% GDP and shedding 700,000 jobs a month when he was sworn-in, to an economy now growing at +2.4% GDP and losing only 11,000 jobs a month. Unemployment is declining for a high of 10.2% - during the worst recession since the Great Depression (unemployment was far worse during Reagan's recession - 10.8%) . Obama saved us from economic collapse - period.

Obama's bailout of GM rescued tens of thousands of union jobs. GM - arguably the largest company in the world - emerged from bankruptcy in an amazingly short period of time - weeks - not months or years.

Obama supported the extension of unemployment benefits - and $100 a month bonus and COBRA subsidies - for millions of unemployed Americans.

First time home owner tax credits have stabilized a US housing market that was in free fall in January 2009.

HCR - nothing has passed in a final form so this is not a "failure". If HCR is such deal for the health insurance industry, why are they fighting it tooth and nail?

Mains St vs Wall St - a false dichotomy and wrong. Obama will offer with tax credits and loans for small business and weatherization programs for homeowners on Main Street - not Wall Street.

Climate Change? R U kidding. Obama reversed 8 years of Bush climate change NON -policy and allowed EPA to declare CO2 a pollutant. Can you appreciate any of that????

Energy Independence? I'm sorry, but Congress has not yet taken up a Green Energy Bill. This is not a failure. Obama reauthorized and expanded homeowner tax credits for solar and wind installations. The stimulus package is doing LOTS for energy efficiency and alternative energy here in my home state of Maine. Maine is using stimulus money to weatherize existing homes - everyone will benefit from this. Maine colleges and universities are deploying PV arrays and wind turbines, community colleges are training solar installers and certifying weatherization technicians. Maine wind farms have received stimulus money to expand. Maine is establishing offshore wind farm sites. Maine paper mills will match millions of dollars of stimulus money to install heat recovery systems that will improve energy efficiencies at these mills by 33%. Maine has received millions in stimulus money to retrofit schools and hospitals with wood-fired heating systems - the wood produced here in Maine. Obama is spending money on high speed rail and Cash-4-Clunkers succeeded in getting gas hogs off the road and replaced them with significantly more fuel efficient vehicles.

You are wrong to bash Obama as a Do Nothing President - he has done a lot and IS SUCCEEDING.

The Obama-Failure-Meme - FAILS.

period.

[SandWalker1984]

120. Health care reform and war spending are "pet" issues?

So what do you consider serious issues?

[totodeinhere]

125. I would be with you if it really were a "baseless attack."

But in no way is it baseless. That so-called health care reform bill that is slowly making it's way through the Senate will be a big giveaway to the insurance industry. Meanwhile, if we get any kind of public option at all it will be so watered down that it will hardly be recognizable. Meanwhile, it's more troops to Afghanistan. That's not what I voted for, and I give it a failing grade.

[Buzz Clik]

133. So, two issues line up on your negative side, and Obama has no successes at all.

Okey dokey. Whatever you say.

[totodeinhere]

136. I didn't say that. It's just that the two issues I mentioned are two of the most important,

and IMO they might very well outweigh his successes. Plus there are other problems. He went along with renewing the patriot act, and he has put the same old Wall Street boys in charge of the Treasury Department and he renominated Bernanke. I can list some more things if you would like.

I have almost got to the point where I could see myself supporting another Dem candidate in the 2012 primaries if a credible bona fide progressive comes forward.

[Buzz Clik]

145. These are issues that are important to all of us or we wouldn't even be here.

Most of us have the maturity to see things on balance.

[totodeinhere]

146. I am seeing things "on balance" as you put it. And..

IMHO that balance is not very good right now.

[cali]

8. yes, I think he has.

The EPA, for instance, on carbon dioxide. That's a big deal.

[midnight armadillo]

29. That's not Obama's decision

the President can only boss around cabinet departments.

[JVS]

56. His stopping of the missile shield near Russia's borders was good for world peace...

and is a bit less military spending for us

[still_one]

69. Yeah I'll help you out here. How about bring back the ABM treaty? What about opening up a

dialog in the middle east? How about starting the process of closing Gitmo, (you may not like the speed, but the process has started)? How about getting us involved with the world community in climate talks? How about "starting" the process of HCR? (We don't know what is going to happen, and you may not like the process, but it has been started). How about preventing a complete liquidity cirsis? (Again, you may not like that these large institutions were not broken up, regulation was not put back, and initially there was no accountability for the TARP funds), but a complete meltdown was avoided for now. He opened up embroyonic stem cell research, supports the right to privacy, and will insure that Supreme Court justices are appointed that share that view.

We have no idea how successful he will be, but things have started, and we will no in the course of time how successful he is

Keep in mind these comments are coming from someone who is quite frustrated with the way a lot of things have been done, but I also recognize without a doubt that a lot of processes have been started

[jpak]

104. This is joke thread - right?

:rofl:

[uponit7771]

135. Hate facts much? You're digusted because you're either a freeper or you don't pay attention.

[democrank]

3. At this point, they`re throwing crumbs at us, hoping

we`ll shut the hell up. I`m interested to hear what Senator Sanders says in the next couple of days. He never stops fighting for the average Joe.

[DrDan]

4. agree

failed to lead

[freddie mertz]

7. He has certainly failed the leadership test.

And alienated thousands of his supporters in the process.

I will never trust him again.

[calico1]

9. Unfortunately it seems to me that this President

is more concerned about being liked than about doing the right thing. We need a strong leader and master arm twister like Johnson was. And with the results of the election it would have been totally justified. But no...we want to be liked by the people that don't like us. We invite them to Superbowl, cocktail parties and what not. They still trash him but he still tries. It is beyond frustrating.

[vaberella]

117. I love it...you invoke the name of Johnson? Obama increased troops in afghanistan.

Obama is going after off shore companies. Obama saved the auto industry. Two of which were railed against by the left on this board----the first and the third. The second hated by most corportatist and yet you clai he's more worried about being liked?! You make no goddamned sense and obviously haven't been paying attention.

People want O to be a armtwister to get things done---like Johnson, but when Obama increases troops in the battle we should have been fighting and said he would be inscreasig the troops for he's too muc like LBJ.


Give me a damned break.

[calico1]

134. I was referring to Johnson only as far as

his domestic policy achievements. Something he was very successful with. I was not even thinking about the war....either one of them...and this thread isn't about the war..that is a whole other matter.

[vaberella]

139. I'm tired of the picking and choosing and I'm tired of the wanting him to do this or that.

He's our President currently and so far I find he's doing an above average job. I think people need to focus on the present. There were a lot of things differnt for Johnson compared to Obama---from Congress to the issues. It's just unfair overall to expect Obama to meet some ridiculous demand.

Secondly....if you want to focus on the health care solely----then you obviously haven't seen any of his interviews for the past several months. The man did townhalls and advocated for health care everywhere. And yet he's more worried about being liked while we have Repubs saying he's the New Hitler and starting death panels.

Your viewpoint is shallow and extremely narrow and once again, makes no damned sense.

[calico1]

151. And I am tired of posters who want to

pick and choose what other posters can or cannot say about the President or whatever subject is being discussed. And who stoop to personal insults when a poster doesn't agree with them.

You have a right to your opinion. I would never want to take that from you. Likewise I have a right to mine.

As for your analysis of me as a person, you don't know me from Adam and you know nothing about what kind of person I am. You have no clue.

Oh, and I am all for discussions where disagreements occur. That is the nature of a healthy discussion. But I have no use for posters who stoop to personal attacks so buh bye.


:hi:

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

10. A Democratic President and Congress given a sweeping mandate for reform

and a year to accomplish it, deliver what appears to be SQUAT!! Although I give the house more points for effort than the douchbag Senate.

I said before that President Obama started the healthcare "debate" with the ball on the opponants 30 yardline and he has managed to work it so far back down the field that the opponants are getting a field goal and we're calling it a victory.

I have never seen such a cynical, half-assed, manipulative, theatrical shafting of the voting public in my lifetime. All has been revealed that needs to be revealed. They don't have it in them, even when 40K Americans a year are dying for lack of coverage.

I am just about through with both the Democrats and Obama.

Someone please be sure to tell me that they hope I enjoy President Palin, because that is always the best response.

[ChiciB1]

15. Yeah... And THAT'S The Usual Response Too! Seems We DID Actually

vote for the lesser of two evils and it PAINS me to say that! I'm sure many don't believe me WHEN I DO say it, but it IS really true.

I'm just about ruining my health, I've been waiting and waiting and waiting to see what the CHANGE I thought was coming! I think as so many of us here are thinking that "more time" for our leaders in Congress to really stand up and fight is all but gone, and Obama just delivers more "pretty speeches" as an appeasement to us!

There was a thread yesterday about a coming REVOLUTION, which I DON'T want either, but I can't figure out what else we can do! We written, signed petitions, called our Congress critters and all the usual things, and for WHAT??

I'm sick of hearing how THEY CARE, how THEY ARE LISTENING, and how THEY ARE REALLY TRYING to do what's best! I realize this thing called HCR isn't final, but it's about as FINAL as I can take and I don't see much that will be changed!!!

Does it matter now what we do??

[calico1]

19. Most of them, Dems and Republicans alike are

owned by the insurance companies. They are not going to fight for us.

[zulchzulu]

12. We can thank the Blue Dogs for betraying the Democratic Party

Obama has been out there fighting for the Public Option. In nearly every speech, he has talked about it and has tried to persuade the Blue Dogs (forget the Party on No) to do the correct thing. They in turn tried to take women's rights away AND try to comply with their masters who have paid them to be puppets. Obama isn't a monarch who can decree what he wants. He needs fellow Democrats to vote like Democrats.

That said, it's not over yet.

Here's the list of the turncoats (Congress) who voted against healthcare reform:
John Adler (NJ)
Jason Altmire (PA)
Brian Baird (WA)
John Barrow (GA)
John Boccieri (OH)
Dan Boren (OK)
Rick Boucher (VA)
Allen Boyd (FL)
Bobby Bright (AL)
Ben Chandler (KT)
Travis Childers (MS)
Artur Davis (AL)
Lincoln Davis (TN)
Chet Edwards (TX)
Bart Gordon (TN)
Parker Griffith (AL)
Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (SD)
Tim Holden (PA)
Larry Kissell (NC)
Suzanne Kosmas (FL)
Frank Kratovil (MD)
Dennis Kucinich (OH)
Jim Marshall (GA)
Betsy Markey (CO)
Eric Massa (NY)
Jim Matheson(UT)
Mike McIntyre (NC)
Michael McMahon (NY)
Charlie Melancon (LA)
Walt Minnick (ID)
Scott Murphy (NY)
Glenn Nye (VA)
Collin Peterson (MN)
Mike Ross (AR)
Heath Shuler (NC)
Ike Skelton (MO)
John Tanner (TN)
Gene Taylor (MS)
Harry Teague (NM)

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/11/08/the-39-house-democrats-who-voted-against-their-party-s-health-ca/

Here's a snapshot of the Seante turncoats:

When it came to a vote, two Republicans from Maine -- Snowe and Susan Collins -- joined most Democrats and two independents in voting against the abortion amendment. Joining Nelson in supporting the amendment were the other 38 Republicans and six more Democrats: Pennsylvania's Casey, Evan Bayh of Indiana, Kent Conrad and Byron L. Dorgan of North Dakota, Ted Kaufman of Delaware and Mark Pryor of Arkansas.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-health-senate9-2009dec09,0,7688557.story

[cali]

17. He has not been fighting for real healtcare reform. Much as I wish he had been

Reports are that when he spoke to the Senate dems last Saturday, he said not one word about the public option. It's ridiculous to say that his few lukewarm comments endorsing some form of public option are "fighting for it.".


And actually, the House version is almost certainly better than the Senate version. Obama is playing a dangerous game. He's catering to the blue dogs and conservadems, not only on healthcare but on many other issues and treating liberals shabbily. He better watch out or he's going to lose votes he needs. Frankly, I hope he does lose those votes.

[zulchzulu]

18. I've seen speech after speech where Obama has been fighting for the Public Option

Perhaps I'll do an extensive timeline of his statements since he was inaugurated... but first, I have to shovel 18 inches of snow outside my door.

:hi:

[cali]

20. 18 inches? whoa. good luck with the shoveling. (I've only got about 6 to deal with)

[ChiciB1]

78. Well, Right Now I'd Settle For 70 Degress... It' Still Very Warm & Humid

down here where I live! And I KNOW many will scream at me and I DO understand, but "maybe" but it depends on my monetary situation... I want to see OREGON and some cooler weather!

HOWEVER, I will say this much, I WILL come back home after just a "little" adventure with snow! Yes, I AM being facetious!

[ChiciB1]

79. Must Correct My Spelling Error... I Have OCD... So That's 70 DEGREES!! n/t

[midnight armadillo]

33. Fighting? When, exactly?

Was it when Obama never sent a plan of his own to Congress? Was it spending the whole summer waffling on the public option and never declaring "public option or veto?" Or how about starting by talking about a weak, toothless public option and then negotiating down from there?

The Obama WH appears possessed by the idea that Congress will "do the right thing" if left to their own devices. Maybe in a non-corrupt, non-failing legislative system, but what Obama (and his underlings) needed to do was kick, prod, and persuade Congress into a stronger bill.

And they've failed.

[cali]

35. well said. n/t

[Tansy_Gold]

84. yeah. Kinda like CEOs and banksters will "do the right thing."

Then again, considering the coziness between most congresscritters and Wall Street, that's not surprising, at least not to us.


:hi:



TG

[vaberella]

118. You've currently ignored every single bloody interview he's had.

You're not worth talking too about this topic.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

68. Obama fighting for the PO???

You havent been paying attention. He didnt even mention the PO to Senate Dems last Sunday. There were things he could have done to Conservative Dems to insure their vote for the PO. He could have told them no money from the DNC, he could have told them he wouldnt campaign for them if they dont vote for a strong PO. Reid could strip people like Lieberman of their committees, none of that has been done. Dont try and tell any of us that Obama fought for the PO. He is on record saying that the PO is "one of many components of a strong bill". He has minimized its importance from day one.

[ChiciB1]

77. Okay, Obama Has Mad A Lot Of Speeches... But REALLY I Don't Think I've

actually seen him take the "bull by the horns" and really get out there and make the case TO CONGRESS! He didn't use his "pulpit" if that terms is the best to use, to PUSH very hard!

Sure, I've not been behind the closed doors, but I also haven't seen him get all that FIRED UP with just that little bit of anger about how DEMOCRATS just aren't getting HIS (so called) call to arms!

Sorry you don't agree with me, but it's just the way I see it!

[asdjrocky]

86. And we can thank the President that we all worked so hard for not leading.

What good is it having a Dem as President if this is what we end up getting?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

21. I'm sick and tired of people blaming Obama for this mess!!!!

You must have failed Civics 101. It's heartbreaking, too. I'm sick and tired of Ed Schultz and a few other liberals (I'm a proud liberal myself), crying and bitching and blaming Obama.

CONGRESS DRAFTS AND PASSES LAWS!! NOT THE PRESIDENT, PEOPLE!!!

But I do feel you. The fact that Republicans did nothing for health reform, except for passing Medicare Plan D without paying for it, and now Democrats are at least attempting to do something...THAT'S change!! :)

[cali]

23. Actually, it's you who must have failed civics and history, dear.

When it comes to legislation, the President is a big player. See Lyndon Johnson or Harry Truman or FDR. I like Obama but he has not exhibited leadership in this fight.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

150. Of course, I know that, DEAR!!! I've taught political science to college students for over 20 years!

But that STILL does not negate the fact that the president cannot pass legislation. Sure, he can use the bully pulpit to influence policy. Sure, he can try and persuade Congress or even threaten to get them to bend to his will. BUT HE CANNOT WRITE AND PASS LEGISLATION, DEAR!!!!

Instead of attempting to demean me, please know the facts. I'm well aware about the history of LBJ in the Senate, but this is a different time and place. LBJ did not pass laws, either once he was out of the Senate.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

26. No, he could have stepped up. The president *does* have sway.

He just needs to exercise it.

[calico1]

36. A strong, persuasive, President can do a lot

with regard to how votes turn out. LBJ, FDR..are examples. LBJ was a master arm twister. This is the kind of leadership that would have gone a long way. What is the point of electing a President if he is just going to stand back and let the legislature do whatever? We need strong leadership. And we don't seem to have that now, unfortunately.

[freddie mertz]

40. You defense is based on faulty civics.

President can and does introduce legislation through his party leaders.

He also can set goals and use the powers and influence of the office to set agenda and influence the progress of things.

Suggesting he has no power does the president no favors.

It just looks ridiculous.

[Tansy_Gold]

105. What was it that Harry S. Truman said? He was a Dem president too.

(for those who don't have a clue what I'm talking about


http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/the-buck-stops-here.html


and yes, I'm aware it's a UK site.)



(TG)

[DCBob]

24. Howard Dean seems pleased with the current legislation....

Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, a physician, said Wednesday he believes opening up Medicare to people 55 to 64 years old gives momentum to the quest for a health care overhaul, putting it "on the right track." The former Democratic presidential candidate and party chairman said on CBS's "The Early Show" that Medicare already is "a single payer run by the government. This moves things forward." Dean called it "real reform".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091209/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_dean

Which means the liberal Senators will likely vote for it. Seems only the lefty-teabaggers have a problem with it now.

[cali]

30. Dean has said over and over that he wouldn't and couldn't support

any legislation that didn't have a real public option. I fail to see how opening Medicare up for those over 55 constitutes a viable public option. Sounds like Dean is backing down. That's too bad. And frankly, I doubt that Bernie will vote for this. Or Brown. There are a few others I can also see rejecting this legislation.

[DCBob]

37. I think they have the 60 votes.. perhaps depending on what comes back from the CBO.

Also here are Feingold's comments:

"While I appreciate the willingness of all parties to engage in good-faith discussions, I do not support proposals that would replace the public option in the bill with a purely private approach," he said. He added, however, that he will base his vote "on the entirety of what is in the bill, and whether I think the bill is good for Wisconsin."

[Voltaire]

39. What exactly is a lefty teabagger?

I really hate any insinuation of equivalency between extremes of right and left. There are extremes, surely, but they are not comparable in any way. IN ANY WAY. A teabagger is an willfully ignorant, racist nut in common usage.

[calico1]

44. I'd like to know too.

I guess anyone who dares criticize the President?

[DCBob]

48. One so extreme in poltical views to the point of becoming irrational.

There are many on both sides and they do both parties disservice.

[cali]

52. and anyone here who thinks Im a "lefty teabagger" is seriously confused

[DCBob]

59. Sorry, I did not mean to imply your were...

I agree with most of your viewpoints... I just get irritated with the constant barrage against our President who I think is doing remarkably well considering the extremely difficult situation he is in. Peace.

[jonnyblitz]

54. you "obama can do no wrong" loons are the irrational ones. nt

[DCBob]

65. That's not me.. but you appear to be an "Obama can do no right"...

loon.

[QC]

70. Calling people that is the latest fad among the more devoted fanboiz and fangurlz.

It's the current "thank you for your concern" or "pony" or "poutrage."

[Forkboy]

137. It's not even clever.

The biggest crime of all. ;)

[QC]

141. True. I can forgive nearly anything, if it's witty,

but this latest little fad is just childish.

[jefferson_dem]

27. Howard Dean disagrees with you.

He calls it real reform. Fucking corporate sellout he is...settling for FAILure.

The fetishism for the "public option" is kind of creepy. Since when did that become the "be all, end all" litmus test for reform?

[cali]

31. Dean is the guy that said repeatedly that without a public option it's not

reform. Over and over and over again.

[stray cat]

45. Until he said the changes in eligiability are better than any likely public option

and that this bill is a good step forward.

[OneGrassRoot]

62. I'm still paying close attention to What Howard Dean says...

Without a doubt, he is disappointed in how this has played out, though probably not surprised.

Since he -- unlike elected officials -- has no stake in this, per se, his is the voice I'm following the closest.

I suppose it's like all corrupt negotiations: You start off with the best-case scenario and go from there. We all agree we didn't start off with our ultimate scenario, single payer. Howard Dean has pushed for the best-case scenario in his mind all along.

And we're ending up with something far removed from that, most likely.

So, it comes down to whether he feels what we're ending up with is HARMFUL or a potential opening. Either way, it's far from what we here ultimately want, but if he isn't sending vibes out that it's harmful and instead that it is a possible opening to expand it over the years to get it where we DO want it and where it SHOULD be, that is something. Not much, but something, to provide solace.

Yes, we're down to the typical DC clusterfuck scenario where the citizens are weighing whether or not what the politicians are doing is MORE HARMFUL than the current situation, versus the potential for it to gradually get better.

I keep hearing people say this is what happened with SS and Medicare. Democrats were so upset that it covered so few people at first....but huge change just doesn't seem possible in this country, not without a dictatorship. I, too, wish Obama would have come on stronger with this. Maybe he still will at the last minute, after allowing everyone rope to hang themselves with.

I hope so.

We'll see.

[JVS]

50. "Since when did that become the "be all, end all" litmus test for reform?"

When single-payer was dismissed out of hand and it was offered as the compromise

[My Good Babushka]

28. I agree

every time I read about the new, terrible, progress of the health care legislation I can actually feel the blood draining from my face.

[stray cat]

43. Howard Dean and I suspect Russ Feingold and Rockefeller disagree with you

and I have a great deal more confidence in them than a random DU post

[cali]

53. I have more faith in my junior sentor than feingold or Rockefeller

I know Bernie hasn't been too pleased about the process.

[DCBob]

85. Sanders has already said that lacking a strong public option would not be a deal breaker..

TPM (Nov 29) -- In response to a question from George Stephanopoulos on ABC's This Week, Sanders, a strong supporter of a public health insurance option, wouldn't go so far as to say definitively that he would filibuster any Senate health care bill that doesn't include a public option.

"I would be very reluctant to support legislation that did not have a strong public option," Sanders said, adding that "I gotta see what ends up happening."

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/sanders-stops-short-of-saying-hell-filibuster-bill-without-public-option.php

[stray cat]

46. Obama failed to give you everything you wanted - lets see what he does for the rest of us

[cali]

55. ridiculous. I like Obama. I've been pleased with some of what he's done.

And I've said so.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

60. I'm sorry, this "I am pleased with some issues, disspointed with others" does not compute.

[Forkboy]

138. Now THAT doesn't compute.

The only options you leave are agree with everything Obama does or disagree with everything Obama does. :shrug:

Pleased with some issues and disappointed with others makes perfect sense, and I suspect that's where 90% of his detractors and supporters alike truly stand.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

142. It was meant as a snark.

As in a computer only thinks in 0s and 1s, sort of how DU is sometimes and therefore, a reasoned and measured opinion will blow a circuit.

I refuse to use the sarcasm smilie.

[Forkboy]

143. LOL

Hoisted by my own petard. I never use it the sarcasm icon either. :toast:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

144. Sorry, I edited after you responded. Same thing said though.

Anyway, I don't blame you for taking me seriously. With some of the crazy stuff said on here, anything is possible.

[JVS]

47. I'm sure you'll be accused of many bad things now

[cali]

58. I'm often accused of many bad things around here from people

who hold varying political views.

Such is life.

[CTLawGuy]

49. the Republican Obstruction Machine thanks you for your

contribution to their cause with this thread.

[asdjrocky]

81. You're totally off base here.

I've seen Cali come down on both sides, she's a thinking person, unlike others I can think of right now.

I think someone, especially a long time poster, should be allowed their opinion without being called a republican.

And anyone here who thinks I cheer lead for Cali on anything, should take a look at some of our exchanges during the primary wars.

You're being rude and short sighted.

[CTLawGuy]

147. saying Obama has failed in the middle of his reform process

is what is "off base". How can something have failed when it's not even finished?

[NYC_SKP]

61. Git yer Hate on, Cali....

It's so charming and helpful...

:donut:

[cali]

63. You know better than that. I know you do. n/t

[CTLawGuy]

67. what's your point with this thread?

to demoralize us?

And what should Obama do/have done?

If single payer or whatever you want cannot get 60 votes in the Senate, it could NEVER BECOME LAW. Why can't people understand that?

[NYC_SKP]

97. I'll give you this much: The perfect president would have exposed the corruption in the senate...

It's not even one party against the other.

It's members of congress who represent people vs members who represent the industry.

An Ideal President wouldn't shy away from exposing this and other wrongs.

But you and I won't live long enough to see that.

So, could he have done more, hell yes he could have done more.

But I'm not going to lay blame at his feet, not yet, and right now my anger is with the Congress and the system.

So, you're right, I know better, but at 6am in sub freezing weather I am known to get cranky.

Coffee helps. :donut:

[Odin2005]

66. No public option = EPIC FAIL

:puke:

[asdjrocky]

71. Totally.

If anyone here thinks Obama cares anything for the poor or the working poor or even the middle class, they have their head seriously up their collective asses.

The Senate? Totally broken. I can count on maybe one hand the Reps and the Senators that are worth two shits.

America is now only an old and forgotten idea.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[asdjrocky]

74. Did you just call me an asshole?

Did you really do that?

[CTLawGuy]

148. yes

I am sorry. I was way out of line, I can admit it. But you were way out of line with your comment as well, I hope you can admit that.

Regardless, someone with the nerve to say that a community organizer and a civil rights lawyer who passed up a lucrative wall street law career after law school "doesn't care" about the poor and working class should have thicker skin. As should someone who basically told me that I had my head up my ass.

[cali]

75. I don't agree. I do think Obama cares about the poor and working classes

I don't think he's terribly strong or adept at handling Congress. And fortunately, I can't even count on two hands the number of reps and senators who are worth something.

[asdjrocky]

76. I've seen no real sign that he cares.

But let's just say I'll hold out hope.

[phleshdef]

92. He only spent his whole life working for them in poor Chicago communities..

Yea, no fucking sign at all. Dumb fucking people.

[asdjrocky]

132. Hey, I once really liked REO Speedwagon, not the lame 80s' stuff

but the 157 -Riding the Storm Out- Riverside Ave stuff. Doesn't mean I'd go see them in concert. Doesn't mean I've given them a second thought since 1977.

Dumb fucking people.

[MarjorieG]

87. Absent a caring, not bought off Congress, Obama is limited in power on this.

Not to mention facing further important legislation also looming. Having a severe economic crisis is also cover for those electeds in bed with insurance money.

[asdjrocky]

89. So let me get this straight.

When Clinton was President it was the fault of a Republican controlled Congress, correct?

Now that we have a Democratic President, 60 votes in the Senate and a clear majority in the House. Who do we blame now? Is this not the Presidents time to lead?

I'm sorry, but I've seen this movie before and all they've done is change some of the actors.

[ShortnFiery]

80. Our Political System = A Corporate Duopoly.

[Inuca]

82. Utter BS

The public option is a means to an end, not an end in itself. What is being discussed now seems to be a better means to get closer to the desired end than what a WEAK PO could have achieved. The PO could have had some teeth if the exchanges were more largely available (the Wyden proposal which does not seem to get much support, not sure why). In any case, to sum it up: the Medicare available for 55+ combined with the availability of something similar to the what is available to federal employees, and also tighter regulations on insurance companies seems a more than decent compromise. And these things can be achived together with the other good things already in the bill, it's a very good thing.

[108]

90. depends on how you look at it

if you thought America was going to get Universal Gov run coverage, than yes, he failed...but if you really thought that was going to happen, than that's on you...you should know better how America works

Lowering the Medicare age is a very good thing...and one good by-product is that it will decrease the work pool, as many people wait until they can get Medicare to retire...

[phleshdef]

91. Unlike him, you FAILED in the ability to count.

[Mass]

94. Nothing new compared to yesterday. The PO was only a name without substance in the Senate bill.

I support a strong public option, but we were very far from that.

Extending Medicare and having OPM manage a basket a non profit insurances, with real negotiation powers to bring prices down, if this is what happens (we dont have details yet) will be better than a weak public option open to very few. In fact, it is as much a public option that what was in the Senate bill.

You cannot be slave of a word. A public option without substance was not worth it anyway.

This said, yes, the senate leadership failed, but there is nothing new there, I agree.

[Umbral]

95. The Democrat's as a whole failed, no need to single out Obama.

But since he leads the Party, blaming him isn't entirely inappropriate.

[TwilightGardener]

96. Still waiting to see what actually ends up on his desk to sign

before I pass judgment.

[SpartanDem]

98. I agree and disagree

He could of fought harder and did some real arm twisting in that respect he failed. But that said I think what is emeging isn't all bad and is many ways better than what was on the table.

[olegramps]

99. That President Obama has succeeded in even getting HCR a hearing is a huge accomplishment.

I understand that you are disappointed that a more equitable bill can not be realized. However, you seem to disregard the fact that due to his impetus this issue has finally demanded national attention. It would be naive to think that there wouldn't be monumental opposition by the health care insurance industry. I would hope that you save some of your criticism for the lockstep Republicans that have chosen this issue to attempt to totally discredit President Obama. They, as in the case of some of the DNOs, are driven solely by politics caring not the least about the welfare of their fellow citizens.

I would offer that if the working class really wants a fair shake then they should fully support organized labor with their membership. The American worker can blame themselves for much of their dilemma when they swallowed the corporate line that management would take good care of them. Powerful unions can put tremendous pressure on elected representatives to protect their interest. However, in the vacuum that now exists for labor's voice, is it any wonder that corporate lobbyists rule the day? The workers drank the Kool-Aide and now are bemoaning their fate. Shitty wages, no health insurance, out-sourced jobs, no real representation in congress, no future for their kids, crappy educational opportunities, and the list goes on and on... Want to really do something about your future, then get organized and demand a fair share of the nation's wealth or welcome being run over by the corporate bulldozer.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

101. His impetus? Good lord...

Every candidate running in our primaries was seeking universal health care back when Obama was still polling in single digits

He is not, and never has been, the driving force in Democratic Party demand for universal health care (or at least coverage)

[Garam_Masala]

102. The president has good reasons to be lukewarm on P.O.

The private insurers are experts in harassing high health risk people.
If the law is changed so they can't cancel your policy, they will simply
harass you in subtle ways such as a) we never received your claim
b) the doctor needs to give more information on procedure performed
c) that code is not covered, please resubmit with the corrected information
etc etc. My wife works as a coder who translates the doctors charts & work
to submit to insurance companies. She can write a book on delaying and
subterfuge tactics by health insurers.

So these people with chronic health issues and pre-conditions will get
tired of fighting the insurance harassment and gravitate to Public Option.

Result is PO will be overloaded with high cost patients. Then premiums
for PO will go higher. ANd it will be just as costly as private insurance
or worse.

Single Payer is the only good system because then every single living
person is in the SAME EXACT POOL. Every one shares the cost equally
pro-rated on income level. I think Barack Obama knows this and is
working on that end more than PO.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

110. do try and control yourself. Your little hissyfit and telling me to fuck off is

not only against the rules, it's utterly pathetic, dearie.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

106. So what? You always hated Obama.

<joke>

[cali]

111. I was about to snarl at you indignantly, Kurt.

I'm getting it from both sides lately- big time.

[polichick]

107. Perhaps, but he'll count it as a victory. nt

[Hekate]

108. Wait--the Senate voted?! When?! What happened?! OMG OMG omg omg omg

:wow: :hide: :yoiks:

[dave29]

109. You have passed at sweeping generalizations

tailored to your worldview

[ClarkUSA]

113. Paul Krugman and Howard Dean disagree with you.

Krugman: New health plan "good enough to go with":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x46490

AP: Dean Embraces the new Senate Plan:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=46005&mesg_id=46005

Insurers must pay 90% of premiums to medical care under deal:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=46146&mesg_id=46146

MSNBC analysts said this morning that Congressional HC-like plans will be offered by private NON-PROFIT insurers. There will
also be "tough spending rules for insurers" as per MSNBC and the Washington Post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=46146&mesg_id=46146

Sounds good to me.

[vaberella]

115. Whenever she posts about health care, majority of people disagree with her.

Sadly though....I don't put too much stock on those two guys when it comes to health care either.

[ClarkUSA]

123. I noticed.

<<I don't put too much stock on those two guys when it comes to health care either>>

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. ;)

Furthermore, the details the press is reporting sound good:

Insurers must pay 90% of premiums to medical care under deal:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=46146&mesg_id=46146

MSNBC analysts said this morning that Congressional HC-like plans will be offered by private NON-PROFIT insurers. There will
also be "tough spending rules for insurers" as per MSNBC and the Washington Post (see above link).

[cali]

116. really?

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/howard-dean-senate-health-care-deal-contains-real-reform/

Some detail from Dean:

* In one provision that liberals will dislike, Dean said he’d been told that the Medicare buy-in for people 55-64 would not have subsidies, potentially making the buy in unaffordable for many intended recipients. Dean said that if this isn’t fixed in conference negotiations, it could be a deal-breaker.

“That’s a huge problem that may tip this into being not real reform,” Dean said.

* Dean confirmed what I reported here yesterday: The Medicare buy-in will be available as early as 2010, a provision he hailed for substantive and political reasons. “They’re making government-run single payer available to people under 65,” he said. “That’s a step in the right direction.”

Dean added, however, that it was unclear as of yet whether the early buy-in applied to all those without insurance or just those at high-risk (I was told yesterday that the latter was true). He said that if it’s high-risk only, that could also be a provision that falls short of real reform, and noted that the early buy-in would have to be made available to everybody.

[ClarkUSA]

119. Yes, really. Dean doesn't think "Obama has failed on healthcare reform." Neither does Paul Krugman.

Of course, Dean understands the perfect should not be the enemy of the good.

[vaberella]

122. How does your post disagree with the original post on it?!

Similar stuff since everything is still being detailed. You want it to fail don't give a fuck either way.

[HughMoran]

121. Not enough busses

to put all the Dems - good and or bad - underneath!

:rofl:

[vaberella]

124. Or the buses aren't sturdy enough---maybe if they had big wheels it would be good. nt

[ClarkUSA]

126. ....

:P

[HughMoran]

114. So far, so bad.

It's not past tense yet - let's see if these fool can salvage this.

[SandWalker1984]

127. Ed Schultz today said Senate's current "secret" bill is a piece of garbage.

Listening to Ed today, he made the following points:

The current Senate bill has nothing in it to bring down premium rates, no competition.

Nothing that is a road to a single payer system.

Nothing to take on the insurance industry.

He said why should we settle for a piece of garbage to help someone's (Obama's) legacy?


Brett Budosky, a guest today, said it's an outrage that we elected a Democratic president and Democratic Senate and they have a "secret plan" on health care that we can't see yet. He said it should be out in the open and the reason it probably isn't is because we're not going to be happy with it.

Brett said the game is rigged, the public option is dead and there will be no competition to keep rates down.

He said there could be huge savings in drug prescriptions but Obama's White House cut a deal with pharma to protect them in exchange for support on health care reform.



Let's face it folks, most (not all) of the Democrats in the Senate as well as the White House (Obama really should ditch Rahm) are showing us that they are not really interested in health care reform for Americans -- they are interested in protecting the corporate health insurance profits at our expense while giving us small, useless tokens of reform in hopes we will shut up and go back to watching American Idol or Sunday football.

It's shameful that the best "Democrat" we have in the Senate fighting for us is an Independent socialist, Bernie Sanders. (By the way, if you want Bernie to stand up to the Democrats and vote NO if the final bill is without a public option to give competition & keep premiums from skyrocketing, then please call his office.)


I will not go quietly and gently into the night.

[CTLawGuy]

149. Ed Shultz is pissed off about something

stop the presses. :eyes:

[philly_bob]

128. UNREC Premature obituary.

[Jennicut]

129. I am more disappointed in Congress, really.

Obama does not do the threatening game and really only Repubs do that (Cheney used to sit in on Congressional meetings, after all).
I live in CT and Lieberman is my Senator. Enough said. Really, we all know the answer. Many in Congress deserve to be voted out. Too bad they would be replaced with Repubs, which is even worse.

[yeswecanandwedid]

140. I think this post fails. nt

[mayya]

152. Why does Big Pharma always get a pass? They are the villians!

[jeanpalmer]

153. It's getting scary

They're starting to panic. They know they have to produce something, anything, real soon. Time's running out and they don't have a clue. Who knows what they'll come up with. It's something different every day, healthcare reform by trial balloon. On Chris Matthews, Claire McCaskill described it as a major food fight, being fought by chicken littles. What kind of result are we going to get from that? Is that any way to do healthcare reform? I'm tempted to say, "Stop right there, don't do any more damage."