Cindy Sheehan supports a Republican over Nancy Pelosi in San Francisco

[tritsofme]

This woman is running out of sharks to jump. How is this defensible? Maybe she figures this little outburst will attract some cameras?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2010/10/20/cindy-sheehan-goes-republican.aspx

[davidinalameda]

1. keep this one kicked

I want the Cindy defenders to come up with a response on this one

[secondwind]

46. I'm astounded! K&R

[Sheepshank]

67. all those damned connections.....

"... mentioned that he was backed by Gonzalez, who nearly was elected mayor as a Green in 2003."

ooooh, almost a mayor in 2003.

[lamp_shade]

2. That would be my guess.

[ProSense]

3. Hmmm?

My good friend, SF politico and former VP Candidate (for Ralph Nader, 2008), Matt Gonzalez, has endorsed John Dennis because, as is your custom, you gutlessly refused to debate him. I am also encouraging you (once again, futilely) to not only debate John Dennis, but Gloria La Riva, too.

Another "Gore = Bush" moment.

[Lasher]

4. Nothing from Orly lately so this will have to do.

:kick:

[rug]

5. Is this not true?

In that almost four years now, you have fully funded the wars; rammed through the bankster bailouts and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Modernization Act; refused to hold the criminals of the Bush administration accountable; supported the torture policies of George Bush and wanted even stricter measures against suspected terrorists; obediently supported and defended the murderous Israeli oppression of Palestine; presided over the worst jobs' hemorrhage since the Great Depression (can you see all the jobless and homeless from your mansion on the hill in Pac Heights?) and the only "victory" that you can claim is a feeble health care "reform" bill that you admit you had no idea what it contained, when in reality, it was just a massive welfare program for your corporate buddies in the industry.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Open-Memo-To-Nancy-Pelos-by-Cindy-Sheehan-101013-602.html

Paryt politics aside, is it true?

[ProSense]

6. Is this

true?

Are you saying she's justified in supporting a Republican?

[rug]

7. It is a non sequitur.

Don't answer a question with a question, although the answer is no.

Now, I'll try again. Party politics aside, if that quote is true, does that candidate's position deserve support?

[ProSense]

8. No it isn't

It's the same BS cut off your nose to spite your face.

Party politics aside, anyone looking across the political landscape, and wanting positive social change and economic change, and then deciding to support Republicans is fucked in the head as far as I'm concerned.

[rug]

9. What part of it is untrue?

[ProSense]

10. The parts

that are complete bullshit, which would be the entire thing.

There, I answered your question.

Now answer mine: Are you saying she is justified in supporting a Republican?

[rug]

12. That

is a shit answer.

And your question has already been answered above.

As has mine. It's surprising you didn't have a cut-and-paste all ready.

[ProSense]

14. "That is a shit answer." No

it's a perfectly logical response to a bullshit opinion.

[rug]

15. The question is whether the facts stated are true.

I understand blind partisanship is a handicap, but do try to distinguish opinion from fact.

[ProSense]

19. What facts? n/t

[rug]

20. The facts quoted above which you are assiduously avoiding.

Yes, I said assiduosly.

[ProSense]

22. Fox has its version of the facts also. n/t

[rug]

24. True, but irrelevant to the question.

[ProSense]

25. Fox-like

The title of the piece is "Open Memo To: Nancy Pelosi From Cindy Sheehan"

"presided over the worst jobs' hemorrhage since the Great Depression (can you see all the jobless and homeless from your mansion on the hill in Pac Heights?)"

Is this a letter to Pelosi or President Obama?

The letter is moronic.

[rug]

27. Yes I read it and can separate polemic from fact.

Too bad no one has yet rebutted the facts she asserts. It should be easy if untrue.

[ProSense]

29. Pelosi isn't the President. She presided over the House, not the economy. n/t

[rug]

30. And shephered the legislative agenda recounted in the excerpt.

And thanks for the social studies lesson.

[ProSense]

32. The legislative agenda is not the same as the executive agenda

Pelosi has nothing to do with the policies of federal agencies.

The letter is moronic. You claim you don't agree with her conclusion so why exactly are you using her flawed logic to register you criticism of the administration? Or is it Pelosi you oppose?

[rug]

43. That's an idiotic analysis.

Unless you hold that the Speaker's and the President's agendas are at odds, it is a meaningless statement. (I find it hard to believe you would support a Representative who opposes the President.)

This thread is about Sheehan's opposition to the Speaker's reelection. Nice of you to transform it into a defense of the President.

And you still haven't factually rebutted her criticism of Pelosi's record.

[ProSense]

44. "Unless you hold that the Speaker's and the President's agendas are at odds"

Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich support the President.

Nancy Pelosi is not the President. Sheehan's letter is moronic.

[rug]

45. So is further discussion with you.

[ProSense]

50. You said it, not me. n/t

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[joe black]

105. It would fit Obama as well.

The dirty hippies on this fourm are going to make you earn your money. Pelosi can take a flying leap for selling out the American people by not impeaching Bush. There's very little dif. between the two parties.

[ncteechur]

79. You listed a lot of half-facts without any context.

Your obvious hatred of President Obama and the Democratic Party is very evident so why don't you go find another place to post your messages.

[rug]

80. Those are the facts she listed. You got a rebuttal to them?

Or just the love-it-or-leave-it bullshit?

Talk about obvious.

[phleshdef]

26. If the "facts" stated are true, then Cindy looks like an even bigger dumbass...

...because if she is supporting the Republican for the reasons stated, that would imply that she thinks the Republican would not do any of those things (or worse) she is complaining about. Thats fucking retarded.

[rug]

28. I agree, if that's the conclusion she's reached from these facts.

But the facts, if true, remain a sad indictment.

[BeyondGeography]

11. Boehner>>>>Pelosi

:dunce:

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dawgs]

76. How about a war with Iran? Would the Republican vote with Boehner/McCain if asked?

The answer is yes.

[rug]

81. So, the choice is to support a war in Afghanistan or risk nuclear war with Iran?

Stellar logic.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

77. So a Republican would be better? Why don't vote for the Green or Independent?

Why embrace the Devil??

[rpannier]

90. No it's not

To say John Dennis is an honorable person who would represent the area better than Pelosi is not true.
From his website
Debt & Taxes At A Glance

* An income tax implies that a government owns you and allows you to keep a portion of what you make.
* Even if an income tax is constitutional, certainly a progressive tax cannot be.
* Drastically cut, with an eye toward ending, the income tax.
* Dramatically cut federal spending immediately.

Allow me to add from his site:
"It's time we reduced the federal budget and left the family budget alone."
~ Ronald Reagan

and

I propose the Federal government:

* Dramatically cut federal spending immediately, including abolishing the Department of Education.
* Effectively abolish the Departments of Commerce and Agriculture. Any Constitutionally appropriate functions may be moved to the DOJ or DOI.
* Abolish capital gains taxes
* Drastically cut, with an eye toward ending, the income tax
* Unwind and end both wars within 6-12 months
* Federal budgets must have a surplus


Sounds pretty tea party-ish to me

As to her presiding over the worst jobs hemorrhage-- That's just idiotic. It took 30 years to get us where we are, unless you're going to somehow blame her for that (which I guess you are)

[countrydad58]

99. True in what she said

But endorse someone who will continue or make 10x worse these policies?

[jaxx]

16. Is this Sheehan's 'Christine O'Donnell moment'?

Seems like she's great on the snark and small on the sense.

[LynneSin]

18. I think on Cindy Sheehan's absolute worst day ever she would never have....

a Christine O'Donnell moment.

As much as what Sheehan is doing with her vote I can appreciate where she is coming from and respect the effort she has put forth in her fight to stop this endless war and hold accountable those who started it.

As someone who lives in Delaware and reads/hears all about O'Donnell - she's just a vapid airhead. I would never ever insult Sheehan by doing any comparision to Christine O'Donnell.

[jaxx]

23. Notoriety sometimes makes people think they are very important..

[LynneSin]

17. I can respect the fact she refuses to vote for Pelosi but hell if I would ever vote republican

How is supporting a candidate who would help make Boehner the Speaker of the House help improve the situations that Ms Sheehan spoke about.

If I was that upset with the democrat (and in my case someone bopped me on the head with a blunt object), I would vote for a 3rd party candidate or just not vote. Never EVER would I pull a lever for a republican.


(just as an FYI, I am not advocating 3rd party because to me, I would never vote that route either. This is just trying to understand why anyone would vote for a republican who is that vocal against the war and crimes committed by the Bush administration).

[Rosa Luxemburg]

70. maybe she is a Republican?

[COLGATE4]

21. Cindy just can't accept that her 15 minutes are over... NT

[rsmith6621]

31. Cindy Sheehan Has Become Irrelevant

It was a REPUBLICAN that got her son killed.....I guess she has forgot....

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zipplewrath]

34. Not exactly

"...I can't endorse anyone for Federal elections ..."

All she said was that either of the two challengers would be better than Pelosi. I tend to not agree, but she's not actually endorsing one or the other.

[Catherina]

36. Finally some sanity and someone who can process what they read. Thanks n/t

[ProSense]

38. Not exactly,

Full context of the statement:

I like and admire both John and Gloria and support them as human beings who both have the two things that you lack but would have made you a much better person: courage and integrity.

As someone who got a kick in the teeth from the political school of elitism two years ago, I can't endorse anyone for Federal elections which I believe are only a huge sham and scandal at any rate, but I am convinced that either John or Gloria would represent district 8 in California far better than you have on your best day.

She may not be able to officially endorse a candidate, but she has definitely spoken out in support of both of Pelosi's opponents.

[zipplewrath]

42. Yes, both, the one to the right AND left

Basically she said "anybody but...". Considering the GOP candidates stand on Sheehan's signature issue, one can understand that point of view, even if it is a tad suspect strategically.

[davidinalameda]

51. why can't she offically endorse anyone

[Aramchek]

35. Who's Cindy Sheehan??

This is the question she fears the most.

[Freddie Stubbs]

37. Her campaign rally was one of my favorite memories from 2008:

[zulchzulu]

39. A couple things about Cindy and John Dennis

Cindy is pissed (rightfully in many cases) about how Nancy Pelosi is more of a moderate on issues like the Patriot Act, privacy issues, bank bailouts and such that she has voted for. Granted, Pelosi doesn't pass the Purity Test for those who'd be more in the Kucinich camp issue-wise.

She however doesn't have to get nasty about it. I also would wish that Pelosi would debate other candidates at least once, although she has the right to not do so.

I did check out John Dennis' web site (www.johndennis2010.com) and even though he's a Republican, he certainly is more of a Libertarian with moderate Democratic social issues, although there is no mention of his views on women's reproductive rights.

Cindy has been through a lot and I know it's easy to bash her, but she is actually pretty cool usually and I agree with her 95% of the time. It's just how she gets a little nasty that makes for her to seem a tad shrill.

[ProSense]

40. He's a Rand Paul supporter

That should be a big clue.

[zulchzulu]

41. Nuff said...

If he's A Rand Paul supporter, he's probably doing the Trojan Horse political thing to wrack up another Teabagger victory in downtown Evilville (according to the GOP)...

[vaberella]

56. You're shitting me?! Fuck Cindy Sheehan.

Anyone who supports anyone who's anti-women is off my list.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

61. Before calling people liars, get your facts straight

John Dennis Discusses Rand Paul His Campaign and Nancy Pelosi

The questions is: Why are you so ashamed of Rand Paul?

[janewin]

62. my apologies

I remember researching him during the whole wicked witch of the west ad campaign and not one article did it mention his support/endorsement of hm. But that even if he didn't explicitly endorse him the the video came darn close to doing it. Usually people running for an election dont go around endorsing other people.

But thanks for posting it :)

[ProSense]

64. " I remember researching him during the whole wicked witch of the west ad campaign"

Are you a John Dennis supporter?

[janewin]

65. lol, you are funny

I researched a guy and now Ma getting asked if I support Jon Dennis? Nope i dont support Jon Dennis, i didn't have any idea that Pelosi had a challenger so i did a few mins(actually more than a few) research on the guy. Do u have a problem with it?

Btw, anyone have any idea what the polling for the race is? i tried but couldn't find any info on it

[ProSense]

66. Let me get this straight

"I researched a guy and now Ma getting asked if I support Jon Dennis? Nope i dont support Jon Dennis, i didn't have any idea that Pelosi had a challenger so i did a few mins(actually more than a few) research on the guy. Do u have a problem with it?"

You based your accusation on a few minutes or more of research? That was a pretty strong rebuttal for someone you don't support and had no idea was challenging Pelosi "the wicked witch of the West"

As for your other claim:

"Theres are going to be times when the republican is going to be better for the country than a democrat, maybe not this year but the probability is big especially with so MANY blue dogs in congress"

Based on what I know and have seen of Republicans (Snowe and Collins included), that time is never.

[janewin]

68. Look up Bob Conley

"Based on what I know and have seen of Republicans (Snowe and Collins included), that time is never."

If u want to see an example of a democrat who i think maybe worse than John Dennis. He ran against Lindsey Graham in the 2008 election yr. He is against cap and trade, pro life, supports DOMA (mainly against marriage equality) amongst many other right wing policy. You would be surprised the kind of democrats that comes out of the southern states. The guy was considered to be more conservative than Graham and he was a democrat, so if you vote strictly on party line, you would end up supporting people like him

[ProSense]

69. I don't get it?

"If u want to see an example of a democrat who i think maybe worse than John Dennis. He ran against Lindsey Graham in the 2008 election yr. He is against cap and trade, pro life, supports DOMA (mainly against marriage equality) amongst many other right wing policy."

Is Graham better on any of these position?

Michael Cone, Conley's primary opponent, criticized Conley as too conservative, saying that "We've nominated a Republican in a Democratic primary." Conley was a Republican but left the party due to frustration over immigration, trade, and the Iraq War. Numerous commentators, including Lew Rockwell<6> of the Ludwig von Mises Institute, and Daniel McCarthy<7> in The American Conservative, have compared him to Republican Congressman Ron Paul. Indeed, Conley voted for Paul in South Carolina's presidential primary.<2>

link

Arlen Specter did something similar. He's a Republican taking advantage of void.

[janewin]

71. Yes, Lindsey Graham is better

on Immigration and am not sure what his position on trade is. The point am trying to make is that John Dennis of San Fransisco would be the more liberal one if pitted against the DINO Bob Conley. So if you are truly voting on ideology, u will have to vote for John Dennis but hes not running against Bob Conely so am NOT saying anyone should vote for him. Because say what you will about Nancy Pelosi, shes supporting the president and the party platform in a hostile congress

[ProSense]

73. Immigration?

Graham jumped on the Republican bandwagon to repeal the 14th Amendment.

[joe black]

106. Try losing your son.

See if you don't get a little nasty now and then. To the fucking cowards on this board that feel it's OK to punch her out after a loss like that you all can go double fuck yourself. Pelosi is a traitor to the constitution, Cindy ain't.

[bvar22]

47. The OP really should have included the first line at the linked site:

Cindy Sheehan supports a Republican over Nancy Pelosi in San Francisco...

"After a fashion, anyway: She encourages Nancy Pelosi to debate her Republican opponent, John Dennis, and suggests that voters should take a look at him."

Debates are a GOOD thing, and should NOT be limited to the two dominant Parties.
ALL elected officials SHOULD come before the public and defend their record.


I believe that Pelosi would do well.

[tritsofme]

49. I don't see why.

She is not just taking Pelosi to task for not debating, she says that the Republican would make a better congressmen, which is batshit crazy.

Spin spin spin.

[ampad]

48. I do not agree with Cindy at all

I think that she probably is jumping sharks as you put it. However, I think it is fair to say she is an angry, grief stricken woman. I think the anger is what is driving her to behave the way that she is behaving. I do not think I could ever get over the death of my child. Maybe this is the way she is coping with it. I just hope she comes to her senses. The way Republicans treated her after the death of her son should not be forgotten.

[geek tragedy]

52. Sheehan is a LaRouchie at this point, so her rantings

on politics are best ignored.

[tritsofme]

53. I can't believe the LaRouchies are still around!

About a week ago I saw two or three guys standing on the median of a busy intersection holding "Impeach Obama" signs with a picture of Obama with a Hitler mustache.

I assumed they were teabaggers, but at the red light I took their flyer, which also had that kind picture of the president on it, and sure enough, they were part of some official LaRouche campaign. These guys really are special.

[vaberella]

57. Scary people don't go away...they just go into hiding. n/t

[geek tragedy]

84. We wish the Sheehan/LaRouche crowd would go into hiding.

At least then they'd STFU.

[BlueIdaho]

54. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend. nt.

[Ter]

55. "I support ending both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars..."

"...and withdrawing our troops as safely and quickly as possible." That's what John Dennis has on the top of his web site. Cindy is a one-issue voter, so of course she supports him. This should not be a surprise.

[Dawgs]

78. Sorry. ALL Republicans would vote for war with Iran if asked.

If we've learned anything, it's that Republicans will stick together. I don't care what he says now. Republicans can't be trusted.

[Ter]

82. Wanna bet?

Ron Paul and several other won't.

[Dawgs]

94. Why? Because they said so?

After the last 10 years you actually believe anything they say?

[Ter]

97. Come on, there are some who don't like wars

Wars is a neo-con thing. Ron Paul has only voted for one war, Afganistan, and now wants to pull out of there too. The far-right actually has branches. They are split on wars and globalism. The libertarian right like Paul and this guy do not like wars. Neither does Pat Buchanan, a paleo-con. Wars are a neo-con thing. Problem is, 95% of Republicans are neo-cons. It's changing slowly though.

[jenmito]

58. She's also a "Truther" according to a link from your link:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2010/09/28/so-that-s-it-for-cindy-sheehan.aspx?obref=obinsite Just another shark jumped.

[Kaleva]

88. She also saw machine gun nests in NO after Katrina

"Sand bags were removed from private property to make machine gun nests."

http://www.democrats.com/node/6207

I've never found another source which backed up her claim that the military put up machine gun nests in "military occupied" New Orleans.

For a time I cut and pasted and transferred to documents every article I could find that Cindy authored or was quoted. In reading them, I noted numerous contradictions between the later and earlier articles and how her story evolved over time to better fit her anti-war stance. I neither hate or despise Cindy and I do give her great credit for sacrificing for her cause so much but I do feel she has become a tragic figure. A person who started out on her anti-war crusade bare bones, decided to make a stand in a ditch in Crawford, became an national and international celebrity with a huge following only to lose almost all of it as quickly as she gained it.

[DCBob]

59. How dumb can she be? Does she really think a Republican is better??

The woman has totally lost it.

[Uzybone]

63. a fool is a fool, whether pro war or anti war

[craigmatic]

72. I understand her outrage because of dems not investigating bush abuses but this is

not the way to fix it.

[Mokoil]

74. Sheehan has somehow milked a week

out of her 15 minutes of fame.

[leeroysphitz]

75. Oh noes!!!!11!! somebody is voting their conscience!! GET EM! n/t

[Hansel]

83. How, exactly, is voting for a Republican voting her conscience? Do tell. nt

[Ter]

87. He's a Ron Paul Republican

Freepers don't like him. He opposes wars and the Patriot Act, two things Pelosi supports. Not sure where Cindy stands on the PA, but I'd guess she opposes it.

[onenote]

92. And apparently sheehan's conscience has no trouble supporting a nutjob

who would repeal the capital gains tax, eliminate the departments of education, agriculture and commerce and who thinks that the 16th Amendment to the Constitution is "unconstitutional" (apparently he went to the same law school as Christine O'Donnell).

Sorry, but Sheehan has long since become irrelevant.

[leeroysphitz]

96. Irrelevant but consistent. We don't see her jumping thru logical pretzel loops to defend

shit policy just because it comes from a Dem congress or admin.

[RBInMaine]

89. I feel sorry for her loss, but she's nutty. Smiled while arrested, etc. Some real nuttiness there.

[rpannier]

91. Cindy Of The Tea Party Sheehan

John Dennis' website

From his website
Debt & Taxes At A Glance

* An income tax implies that a government owns you and allows you to keep a portion of what you make.
* Even if an income tax is constitutional, certainly a progressive tax cannot be.
* Drastically cut, with an eye toward ending, the income tax.
* Dramatically cut federal spending immediately.

Allow me to add from his site:
"It's time we reduced the federal budget and left the family budget alone."
~ Ronald Reagan

and

I propose the Federal government:

* Dramatically cut federal spending immediately, including abolishing the Department of Education.
* Effectively abolish the Departments of Commerce and Agriculture. Any Constitutionally appropriate functions may be moved to the DOJ or DOI.
* Abolish capital gains taxes
* Drastically cut, with an eye toward ending, the income tax
* Unwind and end both wars within 6-12 months
* Federal budgets must have a surplus


Sounds pretty tea party-ish to me

[saltpoint]

93. That Republican is going to be defeated.

[4lbs]

95. Someone should ask Sheehan which Party started the wars in the first place.

Just a thought.

[rpannier]

100. I thought it was the Democrats that forced DUMB-ya to invade

At least that's what Karl Rove was spewing last year

[JNelson6563]

98. Cindy is all about Cindy, fuck the rest of you!

Yeah, the New Patriotism. :puke:

[MadHound]

101. Sadly predictable,

Cindy calls Dems out on their shit, and despite her record, whoops, under the bus she goes.

I guess we can't have her protesting illegal, immoral wars either, now that it's the Dems in charge of them.

[Mass]

102. Where does it say she is supporting him? All I see is that she is calling for a debate.

Why would that be shocking?

Her other point is she has problems with Pelosi. It is her right. I dont agree with her, but we dont need to become like the Tea Party.

Anyway, not debating your adversaries is not a sign of respect for your voters.

[mucifer]

103. here it is: "I talked to Dennis, who is happy with the quasi-endorsement --

-- he, too, mentioned that he was backed by Gonzalez, who nearly was elected mayor as a Green in 2003."


She called it a "quasi endorsement".

[Mass]

104. No, Weigel called it a quasi endorsement.

[BeFree]

107. Yep. And she was banned

But we let crist supporters to stay here?