Looming Democratic schism if Obama backs Social Security benefit cuts

[brentspeak]

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/138121-liberals-warn-of-democratic-schism-if-obama-endorses-social-security-cuts

Liberals warn of Democratic schism if Obama backs Social Security cut
By Alexander Bolton - 01/15/11 12:00 PM ET

snip

Representatives from about 30 labor unions and liberal groups met with senior White House officials on Monday to express their strong opposition to any cuts in Social Security benefits.

Rumors have swirled that Obama may suggest a recalculation of Social Security cost-of-living adjustments or extend an invitation to Republicans to work with him on reducing the program's costs.

Obama has stayed mostly mum on the issue of Social Security since members of the fiscal commission recommended last month raising the retirement age and lowering cost-of-living adjustments.

“He was very clear as a candidate for office; he has been murky since being in office,” a Democratic strategist said of Obama.

Related:

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/138061-sanders-warns-obama-not-to-agree-with-gop-on-social-security-benefit-cuts

Sanders warns Obama not to agree with GOP on Social Security benefit cuts
By Alexander Bolton - 01/14/11 03:24 PM ET

Sen. Bernie Sanders, the Independent from Vermont, is pressing President Obama to keep his campaign promise not to cut Social Security benefits in a possible deal with Republicans.

Sanders has joined a lobbying campaign by more than 200 labor unions and liberal groups pressing Obama to make a strong statement against cutting Social Security benefits in his State of the Union address, scheduled for Jan. 25.

These groups fear that Obama may agree to cuts to Social Security in exchange for Republican support for raising the debt ceiling later this winter or as part of a broad agreement to reduce the deficit.

Obama campaigned against raising the retirement age and cutting Social Security benefits when he ran for president in 2008. In recent weeks, however, he has stayed largely silent on the proposal to cut benefits put forth by the fiscal-responsibility commission he appointed.

[rfranklin]

1. He's been very clear as President...

that very little he said on the campaign trail means anything now.

[harun]

65. lol, yes, we appreciate the consistency.

[craigmatic]

72. If he does it seniors will vote repig if they didn't already. He'll get all the blame for the cuts

and none of the credit for reducing the deficit.

[HeroTwins]

2. you have no evidence that Obama will be making any cuts to SS

you should have proof before making accusations.

[MannyGoldstein]

7. He appointed a commission designed to recommend that it be slashed

Simpson and Bowles, the two people in America with the most success and experience in mindlessly cutting Social Security.

And, of course, they recommended that the average recipient's benefits be cut about 25% over time.

[ClassWarrior]

10. The OP's simply sharing two articles.

Do you have a problem with knowing what our elected representatives are saying?

:shrug:

NGU.

[Drunken Irishman]

26. So if I posted two articles that say Pres. Obama is planning death panels or death camps...

It's okay - because I'm just sharing 'em?

The credibility of that claim is about as valid and official as the claim Obama wants to cut social security.

Give me a break!

This is where the left ain't no different than the right. They put out these stories over and over again to plant in the heads of voters their talking point - even if there is absolutely no proof what they're saying is going to happen.

That's what I love. Because DU will sit here and bitch and moan about how the right does it and then they'll turn around and do the exact same thing - then say, "well, we're just trying to make sure it doesn't happen!"

Uh huh. I believe you.

Some of our elected representatives say Pres. Obama wasn't born in America.

Do you not have a problem with that?

:shrug:

[AtomicKitten]

29. +1

:hug:

[MannyGoldstein]

33. Do you believe that cutting Social Security

is in a league with death panels or death camps?

Obama has said that, with regard to Social Security, "all options are on the table". He's not said the same about death panels or death camps.

[ClassWarrior]

42. If they're from credible sources, of course it's okay. That's defined in the DU rules. You should...

...read 'em before you lecture others.

NGU.

[Drunken Irishman]

DUPE

[Drunken Irishman]

44. LOL

Show me where there is any credible evidence Pres. Obama is going to cut social security. I want to hear a speech he made or past evidence that he supports such a cut.

Until then, what the OP is posting is no more credible than Sarah Palin going around and saying Pres. Obama wants to send grams off to the death camp. It's all conjecture without an ounce of fact.

[ClassWarrior]

46. Why are you afraid to hear what the Prez's critics have to say?

I generally don't adhere to "crystal ball journalism," i.e. predicting the future. But if the administration is putting out feelers, I want to make damn sure he hears us. The majority who don't want SS cut.

Don't you?

NGU.

[rpannier]

56. So...You're equating Sen Sanders with The Quitter? nt

[Number23]

47. Yep. And then when the cuts don't happen (and let's hope that they don't)

they'll say that the ONLY reason there were no cuts was because of "liberal pressure" on the president.

I mean you just have to :rofl: to keep from :cry: or :puke:

[ClassWarrior]

51. So are you prepared NOT to put "liberal pressure" on him, and take the chance that they DO happen?

:shrug:

NGU.

[Grown2Hate]

53. +1 more drunken Irishman. ;) NT

[ClassWarrior]

60. One more for plugging our ears and shouting, "Na-na-na-na-na-na-na?..."

Why are you afraid to hear what the Prez's critics have to say?

NGU.

[olegramps]

61. Don't you think that it is appropriate to express concern?

I would believe that you would have to agree that his "Cat Food" commission was a blunder especially in view of who he appointed to lead it. At this point in his administration I, along with numerous people on this board, are unsure of what his basic philosophy is. I believe that people should be concerned after seeing the compromises in regard to health care, financial reform and tax breaks for the ultra-wealthy. The citizens should go on record that Social Security, which the government has borrowed from without regard that it was the citizens' money, cannot be used to bail out the government for its unjustified tax breaks for the wealth 1%.

[rhett o rick]

67. That's your argument? If Pres Obama set up a committee to study Death Camps

and appointed conservative asshats to the commission, maybe we should worry. The indications are that Pres Obama is thinking about cutting Social Security and there have been NO INDICATIONS OTHERWISE.

Seems that conservatives used your logic when they tried to tell us there was no evidence that Pres Obama was going to leave the public option out of the HCB.

[ClassWarrior]

76. +1

NGU.

[indepat]

13. It certainly is no more certain than the sun rising in the east tomorrow

for that certainly is not for certain although certainly essential for the survival of this planet for sure. ;)

[ljm2002]

32. Because it's such an effective strategy...

...to wait until he makes his speech and actually proposes cuts. THEN you get to say something, not a moment before!

I am glad that groups are meeting with him NOW rather than waiting until he makes his speech. Maybe they will have an effect.

By your reasoning, they should have waited until he gave his speech, because then they would have proof, and then they would be justified in trying to do something about it. Of course at that point, their position is defensive and the best that could be hoped for is a dilution of the proposed cuts, rather than taking a stand ahead of time AGAINST ANY cuts.

In the meantime, the rich have their continuing tax breaks, so at least we've ensured that they don't have to share in the "shared sacrifices". Because, dontcha know, taxes, like sacrifices, are for the little people.

[ClassWarrior]

43. No doubt. We know that administrations put out feelers on policies. So let's just shut up...

...and let only the Rape-Publicans' voices be heard?

:eyes:

NGU.

[HeroTwins]

58. could I see the copy of his speech you've been reading from?

[ljm2002]

71. Miss the point much? n/t

[Jakes Progress]

52. So how would you react if there are cuts?

Instead of just fussing about the issue of whether we discuss the possibility, how about taking a stand. If the president goes along with the republicans and signs on to cuts or other conservative adjustments to the SS program, will you be for them or against them?

I know. I know. You don't believe he will. You don't think we should discuss it. But just for the sake of discussion, tell us how you would feel if a Democratic president signs a bill cutting SS.

[rhett o rick]

66. What until too late like with the public option? We need to assume he is until proven otherwise. nm

[AtomicKitten]

3. "if"

[Autumn]

4. K/R clear as a candidate

murky since being in office. Kind of sums it up. Not too sure I agree about the Democratic schism if he backs the cuts, I think it will destroy the Democratic party if he does.

[ProSense]

5. Release: Sanders Urges Obama to Save Social Security

Release: Sanders Urges Obama to Save Social Security

BURLINGTON, Vt., Jan. 14 -Amid warning signs that Social Security faces new threats from some quarters at the White House and on Capitol Hill, U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) urged President Barack Obama to preserve the "strong and vibrant" system that serves more than 52 million Americans.

In a letter to the president, Sanders referred to what he called "worrisome reports" that Obama is considering cuts in Social Security. "I hope that information is wrong and that you will stand by your campaign promises to strengthen Social Security," the senator said. "I urge you once again to make it clear to the American people that under your watch we will not cut Social Security benefits, raise the retirement age or privatize this critical program."

A White House fiscal commission appointed by Obama recently called for changes in Social Security. A change in how Social Security is funded as part of the tax deal Obama reached in December with congressional Republicans was another warning sign, Sanders said. Another red flag was raised when Obama economic adviser Austan Goolsbee evaded a direct question about Social Security cuts. "Let's not rule everything out," Goolsbee said during a Jan. 7 interview on CNN. On Capitol Hill, House Speaker John Boehner repeatedly has said he supports raising the Social Security retirement age to 70.

In fact, the Social Security trust fund has a $2.6 trillion surplus projected to increase to more than $4 trillion by 2023, the senator noted in his letter. The 75-year-old system will be able to continue to pay every nickel owed to ever eligible recipient for at least another 26 years. "All of us want to work in a bipartisan manner when we can, but needlessly cutting Social Security benefits when that has nothing to do with our deficit situation is not good public policy," Sanders said.

The senator agreed with statements by Obama in 2007 and 2008, when he called Social Security "a fundamentally sound system" and dismissed as "not good policy options" proposals to cut benefits, raise the retirement age or increase taxes on all workers.

To strengthen Social Security in the future, Sanders supported an idea Obama voiced last fall when he broached the possibility of raising a cap on earnings subject to the payroll taxes. Earnings of more than $106,800 currently are not taxed for Social Security.

"Our Republican colleagues have long opposed Social Security not because it hasn't worked, but because of ideological reasons. Despite its extraordinary success, they simply believe that government should not be involved in providing retirement benefits to seniors, or supporting the disabled or widows or orphans. They would prefer Wall Street and the private sector do that. But that has not been your position," the senator wrote to the president, "and that is not the promise you made to the American people."

As a member of the Senate Budget Committee, Sanders has offered an array of proposals to bring down the national debt. He has called for the elimination of tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans, favored doing away with wasteful tax incentives for oil companies that are among the most profitable corporations in the world, advocated reforms in wasteful Pentagon procurement programs and urged the Defense Department to phase out expensive but outdated cold war-era defense systems.

President Obama is not going to cut Social Security. I'm still not convinced such cuts would pass the Senate. I don't see Democratic Senators lining up to commit political suicide.

[MannyGoldstein]

15. Will you disown Obama if he cuts Social Security?

Or if he proposes cuts?

[mikehiggins]

36. Not for that exclusively but it would be a/the tipping point for many

What is left after Social Security is maimed?

What will the Democratic Party stand for?

I saw a cartoon on this site earlier today that said that the left would be responsible if Sarah Palin was elected President. Like the left has that much power and influence in this Century of Corporate Power.

If anyone other than Obama gets elected it will be HIS fault, not ours.

One good thing about the Internet, the deals going into castrating Social Security will be brought to the public in short order.

[William769]

18. self delete.

Posted to the wrong post.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. "Make no mistake: we must cut Social Security by 25%

That'll pay for our uniquely American experience of two wars and extraordinary tax cuts for the wealthiest. And, it will also strengthen that uniquely American experience of working until you die.

As a needed precaution, I've instructed my Treasury Secretary, Tim Geithner, to hand over the entire money supply to the banks. This will ensure that our economy will be as good as our children imagined it.

And hey, you turkeys on the left: who the &$%# else 'ya gonna vote for, chumps!"

[ProSense]

8. Fake quotes?

"25%"


:rofl:

[MannyGoldstein]

11. Average cut will eventually be about 25%

e.g., http://strengthensocialsecurity.org/Dead-On-Arrival

This is a big fucking deal. A new front in the war against working Americans.

[ProSense]

12. Did you forget the part where

the proposal was actually DOA?

[MannyGoldstein]

14. Again: how about a $20 wager on it?

If Obama doesn't propose or sign cuts to Social Security benefits, I owe you $20. If he does propose cuts, you owe me.

Easy money for you, no?

[ProSense]

16. Again:

No.

I can be confident without grandstanding.

[rpannier]

57. LOL

I gotta remember that, I like it.

"I can be confident without grandstanding."

Short and sweet.

Thanks much

[Jackpine Radical]

17. What is the difference in the psychological processes underlying

Climate Change denial and those underlying denial of the Administration's corporatist agenda?

For the most part, the two populations don't overlap.

[emulatorloo]

20. If someone has to make up FAKE QUOTES as Manny does to make an argument you have to wonder.

As to your post, the "Administration's Corporatist Agenda" has too many echoes of "Obama's Socialist Agenda".

I find both statements to be chock full of apocalyptic hyperbole but not too credible.

[MannyGoldstein]

22. Did you really need a :sarcasm: thingy to figure out it was fake?

Do you think that anyone else thought it might be other than sarcasm?

[emulatorloo]

23. Mostly I saw you doubling down on it when challenged

As we've discussed before I see a lot of SPECULATION being pushed as FACT.

Does not mean I'm not calling my Senators and Reps about protecting Social Security

[MannyGoldstein]

24. Oh, the 25% part is true - that's what Obama's commission recommended

But Obama didn't say that actual quote, of course. He's much more artful than that.

[emulatorloo]

27. You conveniently forget that the commissions recommendations WEREN'T approved by the commissioners!

As you well know, the recommendations were NOT APPROVED by the committee members.

[MannyGoldstein]

31. Approved by a majority, including Durbin

Obama will be "hostaged" over the debt ceiling, and he'll be "forced" to accept the majority recommendation of his very own commission.

Great stuff, just great.

[emulatorloo]

40. Did not pass. Was not approved. Dead.

(and I have no clue why Durbin voted for it.)

As to being "hostaged" over the debt-ceiling vote, there is NO WAY IN HELL Republican corporate donors are going to allow Republicans to destroy the US Economy.

[MannyGoldstein]

50. Someone needs to get the message to Gibbs, and fast

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/12/23/931214/-Gibbs-confirms-role-of-deficit-commission-in-budget-and-State-of-the-Union

[rhett o rick]

68. Where are your quotes that say he wont cut Social Security? nm

[progressoid]

9. Schism?

It'll be a lot more than a schism if he fucks with SS.

[William769]

19. Look to the past statements and hope for a bright future.

Thats all I can do right now. Anything else will just make me more depressed than I already am.


http://seniorliving.about.com/od/socialsecurity101/a/ob...

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/scaring_seniors...

[bbgrunt]

21. oh, he won't explicitly back such cuts. Noooo, that is

too direct. Instead he will ask congress to come up with solutions to the "debt problem" and then have the committees/chairs controlled by those who will do so. If push comes to shove, he will play the house against the senate and make back room deals to get it done.

[Autumn]

25. Damn, I think you are right

on the money. Good post.

[emulatorloo]

28. More likely anything he says will be "parsed" by DU'ers into an

attack on Social security.

They already had a commission. The commissioners would not pass Simpson's bullshit "recommendations."

[ProSense]

30. Exactly

"If push comes to shove, he will play the house against the senate and make back room deals to get it done."

...Democratic Senators will fall on their swords to destroy America's safety net just to please the President while he joins forces with House Republicans to end his political career.

No one will see it coming. How do you think the evil politicians will frame it so they fool everyone else?

[MannyGoldstein]

34. Imagine: Dick Durbin voted for dramatically cutting Social Security

It's in the bag.

[ProSense]

35. Imagine:

the proposal still failed.

Cutting Social Security is political suicide.

Here

[mikehiggins]

37. Cutting SocSec may be political suicide but certainly a little tweak

and nudge here and there won't hurt anyone, right? Okay, maybe SOME people will get LESS benefits in the process but we certainly will not be cutting anyone.

Oh, by the way, how do you do that "sarcasm" thingee.

[ProSense]

38. .

Here

[olegramps]

62. Aren't you concerned about the Social Security holiday?

How can you not see this as a potential threat to the program? It appears to me that you attack anyone who questions the presidents actions. While I would agree that some comments are over the top, I do believe that there is genuine concern about further compromises in light of what has already transpired. Perhaps you agree with the compromises on health care, financial reform and taxes. I believe that when Sanders expresses concern that we should be wakeful as to there validity. I am not able to discount him as some extremist crying wolf.

[ProSense]

64. No

I'm not. The Congressional Black Caucus supported the payroll tax holiday, and others have in the past.

"I believe that when Sanders expresses concern that we should be wakeful as to there validity."

Why? When he supports the President's actions that's often ignored.

Senator Sanders and others are voicing concern based on the GOP's position, not the President's. It's protest, not confirmation the President supports these cuts.

Release: Sanders Urges Obama to Save Social Security

<...>

The senator agreed with statements by Obama in 2007 and 2008, when he called Social Security "a fundamentally sound system" and dismissed as "not good policy options" proposals to cut benefits, raise the retirement age or increase taxes on all workers.

To strengthen Social Security in the future, Sanders supported an idea Obama voiced last fall when he broached the possibility of raising a cap on earnings subject to the payroll taxes. Earnings of more than $106,800 currently are not taxed for Social Security.

<...>

[olegramps]

74. You have got me. Sanders objected strenuously that this could led to permanent reduction .

So I don't have any clue as to what you are resp0nding to.

[progressoid]

39. Yep, a little tweak here and there.

And then in a couple years, another minor adjustment here and there.

Death by a thousand cuts.

[golfguru]

41. Social security needs to be INCREASED by 25%, NOT cut by 25%

And I am not saying that simply because I am collecting social security
checks every month. It is because at least half of all retirees depend on
social security as their primary source of income.

Let the younger folks sacrifice a little, let the high earners pay a little more,
and let the retirees live in dignity.

[boppers]

54. Wow.

:wow:

You might want to be a little less vocal about that opinion, unless it was missing a sarcasm tag?

Like this:
If the younger folks are dealing with 9% unemployment, maybe we should cut off all benefits to 9% of those receiving Social Security, until there are jobs again?
:sarcasm:

[golfguru]

55. You caught on

to my sarcasm. Only sacrifice which will work is the
one EQUALLY shared by all....young and old, rich and poor.

[Ramulux]

45. That schism is already here for anyone paying attention

Hes going to make deep cuts to pretty much everything, if you cant see that coming you have not been paying attention to anything over the past 6 months. The media refuses to acknowledge how many liberals and progressives are basically done supporting Obama's agenda after the tax-cut deal. These cuts to the social safety net are really just going to destroy any chance of the democratic party actually becoming a legitimate opposition party, as soon as they start agreeing with right-wing talking points about the debt and austerity I see no reason to support them and anything they do. If the dems cant make a stand on this issue they are fucking worthless.

[vaberella]

48. I don't remember them ever being proposed. n/t

[NorthCarolina]

49. If Obama backs cuts to SS before 2012, he will immediately become a Lame Duck President. nt

Only a veto would save him. Unfortunately, I do believe Obama wants these cuts every bit as much as any GOP'er.

[xchrom]

59. you don't go to the trouble of creating a commission that you know from the

get go will recommend cuts to not at least be thinking about it.

i'll go with the tweak a little here and tweak a little there crowd. that's how it'll get done --
and probably even pass the senate.

after all even bernie voted for the tax cuts.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

73. if he does it will be his 1 term suicide.even though he said" he doesn't care if he is a one termer"

[juajen]

77. I don't believe he ever wanted a second term. NT

[BlueIris]

63. We've already got a schism.

And I'm not really sure how he or anyone can make it any better.

[Sheepshank]

69. Is there no room in the current SS system to improve and save on admin costs

and delivery and eliminating fraud?

I clearly remember Obama on these particular talking points.

If that saves 25% that would be good.....is that the same as cutting benefits?

I DON'T THINK SO.

[mmonk]

70. Any cuts in benefits won't be framed in those terms and will be

touted as necessary to "protect" or shore up social security. If they go forward, the terminology will work on some but for any who will not be fooled, the schism will result in harm to the party.

[hulka38]

75. Such a good post.

That is exactly what will happen. You've seen this movie before?