Do you ever look at Bill Clinton (who I worship) and want Obama to be more like him?

[wndycty]

I do, but then I realize Clinton failed in his health care reform push, Obama didn't give me everything I want, but he gave me a whole hell of a lot more than Clinton did.

Both Clinton and Obama are great leaders, who have different styles. Its easy to complain about what Obama isn't, but I'm more interested in celebrating what he is. . .and he is an effective leader. Let's not forget he got more done in his first two years, despite the shit he had to deal with, than most presidents have in a full term.

I am one of those who wants Obama to do more, BUT I am very happy with what he has done. I'm not satisfied, never will be, but I have more than enough information to enthusiastically work hard to give him another four years.

[Loge23]

1. Big Bill sighting!

Just off vacation. Big Dog was in the Caymans last week and was sighted - I kid you not - buying cigars at Churchills in Grand Cayman!
Must love his Cohibas!

[Tippy]

2. K&R Me Too...

[marmar]

3. No. I think that's part of Obama's problem. Too Clinton-esque.

nt

[wndycty]

5. Clinton-esque? Obama gives us health care, repeals DADT?

How is that Clinton-esque?

[marmar]

9. I'll give him plaudits for DADT.........

and a half-hand for that weak sauce health reform, but otherwise it's just been a lot of compromising and triangulation. Clinton redux.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

41. You can't be serious comparing Obama, a great leader, to Clinton, the great capitulater.

[truebrit71]

4. Nope.

Been there, done that. I'd like Obama to be more like the guy he was on the campaign trail...You know...a Democrat..

[wndycty]

6. Yeah the guy who gave us health care reform, the guy who repealed DADT. . .

. . .the guy who signed the Lily Ledbetter act, the man who save the American auto industry. . .need I go on.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

39. There's no pleasing some people. Why even try?

Obama isn't perfect, but he's damn close. The guy was dealt a bad hand on so many levels, but still has managed to accomplish a hell of a lot.

[Exilednight]

60. Damn close, my ass. He got Libya wrong, he screwed HCR, he caved on

tax cuts for the rich.

[mucifer]

7. Prison populations increased largely under Clinton's

sentencing laws against non violent drug offenders. Then there was that little NAFTA thingy. Both presidents sold us out to the corporations.
But, that said, mccain/palin would be much worse.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

57. Obama "sold us out" to the corporations. Yes, that's why the Koch Bros.

are contributing to HIM!!

:sarcasm::sarcasm:

[CanonRay]

8. Big Bill gave us NAFTA

and dismantled Glass-Steagal, the fundamentals underlying the Depression banking reforms. He did some good things, but he in many ways was a continuation of Reaganomics and the dismantling of the middle class. He's no hero to worship.

[BobbyBoring]

10. Actually

Phil Graham buried the repeal of G/S in a bill in the middle of the night. Clinton signed it but admitted it was a mistake. I think he also said NAFTA was a mistake too. I like people who at least say they screwed up!

[marmar]

11. Contrition is easy in retrospect.

nt

[CanonRay]

30. He pushed, hard, for NAFTA

and there's no excuse for signing a bill if you don't know what's in it. That's why he has 50 staffers. In his defense he did a lot of good, but these were major fuck ups, if they were, in fact, fuck ups.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

58. He also pushed hard for DOMA and ran on that platform throughout the South.

It's one of the reasons why he won Georgia in 1996.

And yet, there are so many DUers still bitter over the primaries and cannot let the Clintons go.

Why always the comparisons? Let Obama be his OWN man. Run on his OWN record.

The Clintons did enough damage, much of which Obama is being blamed for and having to clean.

"Obama sold us out to the corporations." Hmmm...who again campaigned on NAFTA and supported the repeal of Glass-Steagall?

Yes, though now Bill Clinton says that he now regrets having deregulated the economy so much, the damage has been done and now Obama is forced to take the brunt of the after-effects.

Clinton and Bush II did so much damage to our economy with their deregulatory policies. Obama has tried to close that gap and what did he get? Cowards in the House and Senate posing as Democrats who balked at him.

[NYC Liberal]

12. Nah, Clinton was Clinton, Obama should be Obama.

;)

[elocs]

13. No, just no. n/t

[Proud Liberal Dem]

14. I liked Clinton and voted for him in 1996 (couldn't vote for him in 1992 due to age)

I didn't like the rightward turn he made (more or less had to make) after the disastrous 1994 mid-terms and I didn't like that his personal issues got in the way of his Presidency during the latter part of his second term but I'd gladly have had another term of him or at least Gore in office after him because of their ability to run the government well. Whatever anybody might say about Clinton or Gore, there's absolutely no denying that they would've been light-years better than what we got under "W" and I just can't see either of them wrecking the country like GWB and his comrades did.
I think, like with Obama (who nonetheless managed to move progressive goals further than Clinton did), Clinton was dealt a bad hand in Congress (conservative Democrats in the Senate, lockstop Republican opposition to anything and everything he proposed) and he was ultimately forced to retreat on much of his agenda. Another part of the problem was that the religious right and the Reagan revolution were coming to their zenith during the 1990's bringing the Republicans to greater prominence than they had enjoyed since the 1950s and there seemed to be no apparent way to stop them. Obama has benefited a lot by the disgrace of the last Republican (mis-)administration and the Republican "brand" in general, as well as some diminishment of the religious right- though the so-called Tea Party has somewhat filled that void.
As to Obama, I've been pretty happy with everything he's done so far. I want him to be able to do more but, frankly, he's going to need a better Congress to help him. The Republicans don't believe in good government or really working for "the people", so they're certainly aren't going to work with him unless he does what they want him to do (which he won't). I'll take a President who believes in good government and competent management thereof over a President and/or party that firmly believes that government should basically not exist and/or exists primarily to enrich themselves and their supporters any day.

[BonnieJW]

15. I would like Obama to grow a spine.

Is that too much to ask? I am so disappointed in him.

[Whisp]

16. no, not for a nanosecond.

[karynnj]

17. No - never - not even once

I am proud that this country elected President Obama.

[Donnachaidh]

18. no. *worship* Captain Nafta? O*M*G!!!

anyone anywhere that *worships* politicians is part of the problem. :eyes:

[center rising]

19. There will never be another Bill Clinton

Obama should be Obama, and act like Obama. Clinton was his own man.

[rury]

20. Believe me...President Obama should NOT be like BIll Clinton

He's doing a wonderful job as president being himself.
And you "worship!?" Clinton...yikes...no thanks!!

[Very_Boring_Name]

21. Yes

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

22. Obama runs rings around Bill with many more accomplishments...

If not for his neocon wife's warmongering as SOS, Obama would be near perfect. At least he'll get a chance to correct that mistake after he wins in 2012.

[Avant Guardian]

34. First thing Clinton did was retroactively get rid of RW tax cuts

Hillary does Obama's bidding as SOS. No more, no less. You are calling Obama a warmonger.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

38. Nope, sorry. Hillary, the neocon that she is, pushed us into this war...

Her retirement can't come soon enough. Obama's made a few mistakes, I'll admit, but his choice for SoS was a costly one. Too bad Hillary won't stand up for muslim women's rights the way she shamefully advocates for war to protect extremists who want to keep women shrouded in burkas and cut off their private parts. And this is the world's greatest women's rights advocate?! Gimme a break.

[Avant Guardian]

40. The SOS does the bidding of the president

You can worm and squirm attempting to convince me that Hillary is a rogue Secretary of State, but both of us know that is total bullshit.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

45. Get a grip - Hillary does the bidding of Hillary...

Hell, Bill can't even talk sense to Hillary and get her to renounce her neocon ways. The only good news is she's made herself unelectable.

[Avant Guardian]

47. She is not a rogue Secretary of state

She is pushing Obama's agenda, not her own. You cannot seem to accept that. Your problem, not mine.

[Recursion]

51. Meh

None of us sit in on cabinet meetings so none of us really know. If she's "doing Obama's bidding" then it's a bidding that is strikingly well-aligned with her pre-administration views, and it's being done with more noise and backbiting than normally happens between a POTUS and SECSTAT

[Avant Guardian]

62. Who is president, Obama or Hillary?

Make up your minds folks.

[Recursion]

71. Me? You may have confused me with somebody else

I work far south enough of N Street to know that nothing in this city happens by fiat.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

72. Well said. Hillary is nobody's puppet. Bill tried, that didn't work.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

61. You're dreamin' - Hillary's on a neocon rampage...

and there's no stopping her.

[Avant Guardian]

73. Yeah, right

She is out of Obama's control and taking over the government

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

74. Not taking over the entire government, but certainly adversely affecting our foreign policy...

It's plain as day. Hillary should have been fired long ago.

[progdog]

23. No.

That's all.

[elana i am]

24. no. loathe all things clinton.

i'm not enamored of obama, but he's not a clinton and i'm thankful for that.

[Beacool]

25. Oh please, don't start that.

This board is radioactive in its Clinton bashing. Why encourage them?

x(

[Marrah_G]

26. No

I would like the president to become more liberal and more progressive.

[ismnotwasm]

27. I think Bill Clinton advises him

(With no evidence to support what I think)A few of the Presidents moves have been Clintonesque-- taking the momentum and the spotlight away from the repukes. Some of those moves piss Democrats off, especially here at DU, but they sure seem familier...

[frazzled]

28. Absence makes the heart grow fonder

I think Obama accomplished more in his first two years than Clinton did in eight. Though Clinton was lucky to be president during relatively calm and stable times. But I was pretty ready to be done with the school uniforms and lip biting. Don't get me wrong. I loved Bill Clinton. But he had his many faults as well.

What I'd rather think about his how much I wanted a President Gore, and how the very selfsame people here who handwring about Obama not being progressive enough for them, are the same ones who by voting for Nader or not voting at all ensured us of eight years of George W. Bush. I will not retreat on that position, though I'm sure many will yelp and scream that I am mistaken on that count. I am not.

[MrSlayer]

29. Worship? Really?

I think I might be sick. As a Democrat, Clinton was a great Republican. He did a lot of harm to the middle class.

[Fire1]

31. He may have screwed up but I still love him and always will. n/t

[Ramulux]

32. Fuck no

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

33. NO! Many of the problems that Obama faces today were caused by Bill Clinton.

The only quality that I wish Obama had would be if he'd be more forceful. Not angry! FORCEFUL and more assertive. He's way too cool for school and it comes off sometimes as too intellectual. Some folks may falsely assume that he's whimpy.

[Exilednight]

35. No, I wish he was less like him. The DLCers are killing the party. n/t

[dflprincess]

43. + a gazillion

[elleng]

36. No.

[Thrill]

37. Yeah Don't you just love NAFTA and Don't Ask Don't Tell??

[a kennedy]

42. NO, NO, NO, NO, NO

Never voted for Bill, he did more damage for the middle class with that d*mn NATO then anything. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[golfguru]

44. There is a difference between Clinton era & Obama era

During Clinton, jobs were going begging for qualified people.
During Obama, qualified people are begging for jobs.
It is not all Obama's fault but I do yearn for the Clinton years.

[Mimosa]

53. ^ TRUE! In a nutshell. ^ n/t

[donheld]

46. You mean the best Republican President ever?

[Keith Bee]

48. DAMMIT!

I was gonna say that! :cry:!

;-)

[flpoljunkie]

49. In a word, no.

[PatSeg]

50. I would like Obama to be able to communicate

more like Bill Clinton. The Obama administration has a major "messaging" problem. I never agreed with everything Bill Clinton said, but I sure did like the way he said it.

[InvisibleTouch]

52. I tremendously like them both...

...and of course each has to be true to their authentic selves, but I would like to see Obama be more of a fighter and less of a peacemaker. That's his personality style, though, and it does work for him. But it's valuable to learn and take lessons from the trials of others and the events of the past.

[AtomicKitten]

54. No thanks.

((echoes of bad legislation/policy including NAFTA, DOMA, DADT, Rwanda, repeal of Glass-Steagell, China MFN, Monica etc.))

[golfguru]

63. But 22 million jobs created, no wars, tax hikes on rich

all that is missing now.

[AtomicKitten]

65. BClinton wasn't handed anywhere near the shit sandwich Pres Obama got on being sworn in.

Overall, Clinton's presidency was a net negative. I didn't think so at the time, but repealing Glass-Steagall led to the financial armageddon that occurred in 2008.

Pres Obama took over with the economy in the crapper and two wars raging. He's got another 20 months or so and then hopefully another four years before history is written on his stewardship.

[golfguru]

66. Have to agree 100% on repeal of G-S

IMHO that is the root cause of banking problems now.
Robert Rubin was the driving force behind that. I can't wait
for the day when ex-Goldman Sachs big shots leave the high positions
in government. Speaking of foxes guarding the chicken coop!

[FrenchieCat]

76. 22 million jobs created by the Dot.com bubble that burst in 2000-2001

the war in Kosovo was a war, even if only 72 days long.
In fact, I wish we could have done war in Rwanda at the time.

So nothing much is missing, in particular since one should be comparing
2.4 years to 8 years...which is quite unfair.

[mkultra]

55. no. Obama is awesome

He dragged us out of a depression in less than one term.

[undeterred]

56. No. I look at Russ Feingold and I wish he were in Obama's shoes.

[mistertrickster]

59. Sweet Jesus, Mary and Joesph! NO. I want him to be more like FDR. nt

[craigmatic]

64. Do you mean style wise? Because that's the only thing I wish Obama would borrow from him.

As it stands, Obama is already a better president than Clinton ever was. At least he hasn't cut welfare...yet. Plus he got rid of DADT and HCR which clinton couldn't do. All Clinton was able to do better was seem to stand up to the republicans better but even that's an illusion because he did it by agreeing with them especially after 1994.

[TheKentuckian]

68. He is far too similar to Bubba and has way, way too many of his cronies fucking us.

We don't need any more "Third Way" Republicrat tomfoolery.

[craigmatic]

69. Agreed nt

[Phx_Dem]

67. Absolutely NO FUCKING WAY.

[Lindsey]

70. wndycty, I completely agree w/you.Thank you for your post. n/t

[StevieM]

75. I think Clinton was a great president and Obama is a great president (eom)

[road2000]

77. I'll take both just as they are.

Obama has done some good things that are little noticed or mentioned, e.g., the extra "Obama bucks" for people on unemployment, or putting the burden on employers to pay 65 percent of COBRA for 15 months. Those measures have a huge and direct impact on people trying to keep their heads above water.

But if Al Gore ever stuck a finger out to test the wind, I'd be first in line to draft him.