Who is trying to mess with the 2012 primary elections here in New York State?

[hedgehog]

I've had 3 calls in three days from some outfit (Independent voter.org?) trying to get me involved in changing the primary laws here. Now, getting on the primary ballot in New York can be tough. IIRC, you must collect so many signatures from each individual congressional district in the state. Easy to do down around Democratic leaning NYC, not so easy in Republican leaning Upstate.

Now, you can argue whether or not the law needs to be changed. I'm just wondering if this is a false flag operation designed to screw up the nominating process next year.

[annabanana]

1. hmmm. .I wonder where they're concentraing their calls..

(haven't heard of this by me)

[hedgehog]

2. I'm upstate, Syracuse area. It may be perfectly innocent, but it

may also be an attempt to switch to open primaries, which can lead to a lot of mischief!

[brooklynite]

3. Because President Obama's going to have a hard time getting on the ballot?

I suspect this is an effort to get the primary moved to the Spring, where it was until the 70's. This would allow candidates to recover from their primary, replenish their financial coffers, and focus on the General Election.

[Renew Deal]

5. I'm sure it's about petition signatures.

That's the tricky thing in NY. You only get delegates from the congressional districts where you have delegates, and smaller candidates don't have that out of NYC.

[hedgehog]

7. I think he automatically goes on the ballot if he gets the support

at the State Convention.

[Renew Deal]

4. Thanks for posting this.

I live in NY too. I wonder who's up to this. It must be the republicans. The process is equally difficult for all candidates. You need like 15,000 signatures, but they must be spread out in a number of congressional districts. This is very difficult for an unorganized out of state candidate to do. If you remember, McCain sued to get on the ballot in 2000.

It probably costs candidates a lot of money to get on the ballot, so I'm sure one of the bigger candidates that's fairly well organized is up to this.

[hedgehog]

6. I first got involved carrying nominating petitions for George McGovern.

It can be a very arcane process, but as I said, i'm wondering who wants to change it and why.

[LiberalFighter]

9. I don't see how it is that difficult.

Here in Indiana we need 500 signatures in each Congressional District. For a total of 4,500.

New York has 29 Congressional Districts. That averages to 517 in each district. New York appears to only need 100 minimum in at least 1/2 of the districts. So I suppose there could be 28 districts with 100 people signed and the 29th would need 12,200. That would be difficult. But if 15 had only 100 voters signed it would required an average of 965 voters signed.

It would be better if each district tried to get enough for about 600. Expecting that some won't and others will do more. It shouldn't be difficult for any serious candidate to get on the ballot. And if they are not organized then they have no business being on the ballot. State, District, and County parties is the way that candidates should be getting their name on the ballot. There should be plenty of activists within those party structures to help pass around petitions.

The difficulty that I see in NY and other larger states that require petition is that those signing may not live in the district if petition need to have only those living in the district. Or if they can be mix match it would be difficult to keep track on the count for each district.

Designating petitions; number of signatures
1. Petitions for any office to be filled by the voters of the entire state must be signed by not less than fifteen thousand or five per centum, whichever is less, of the then enrolled voters of the party in the state (excluding voters in inactive status), of whom not less than one hundred or five per centum, whichever is less, of such enrolled voters shall reside in each of one- half of the congressional districts of the state.

[Renew Deal]

11. It's harder than it seems.

Candidates that aren't well organized and aren't forward looking don't pay attention to NY which is a super Tuesday state. They are too focused on Iowa, NH, and everyone that comes before us. In NY, you only get delegates for CD's where you have the appropriate number of signatures. In 2000, McCain would have been able to stay in the race with a win in NY, but he didn't have the petition signatures. He sued and got on the ballot. In 2004, the last two candidates were Kerry and Edwards. Both were poorly organized in NY. It was all about Dean and Clark here. Dean was in every district. Clark was missing 1-3 districts. You only get delegates for districts where you have signatures. Kerry won, but didn't get many delegates. He ended up winning anyway that night.

In 2008, Hillary and Obama were both very well organized and there were no petition issue. The other candidates were able to get on the ballot, but Edwards was the only one to get delegates on the ballot and it was only in a few CD's. http://www.elections.state.ny.us/NYSBOE/Elections/2008/Primary/PP-DEM-DEL-2008.pdf

So... It takes organization and often money for candidates (for printing, lawyers, etc.) to get delegates on the ballot in NY.

The way politics works these days, it's more likely that candidates can get signatures because people can download what they need. But you still need willing feet on the ground. BTW, if a person signs a petition for Hillary today, and Obama tomorrow, only the first signed petition counts. That means you need well more than the minimums to survive challenges and problems.

[Renew Deal]

8. Here are the laws for getting on the ballot and the purpose...

6–136. Designating petitions; number of signatures
1. Petitions for any office to be filled by the voters of the
entire state must be signed by not less than fifteen thousand
or five per centum, whichever is less, of the then enrolled
voters of the party in the state (excluding voters in inactive
status), of whom not less than one hundred or five per
centum, whichever is less, of such enrolled voters shall reside
in each of one- half of the congressional districts of the state.

2–122. National party conventions; delegates, election
Delegates and alternates to a national convention of a party
shall be elected from congressional districts, or partly from
the state at large and partly from congressional districts, as
the rules of the state committee may provide. Such delegates
and alternates from the state at large shall be elected by the
state committee or by a state convention of the party, as the
rules of the state committee shall prescribe. If the rules of a
national party provide for equal representation of the sexes
among delegates elected from districts, such district delegates
shall be elected separately by sex. District delegates and
alternates to national party conventions and delegates, and
alternates, if any, to such a state convention shall be elected at
a primary. All delegates and alternates to a national party
convention shall be enrolled members of such party. When
any such rule provides for equal representation of the sexes,
the designating petitions and primary ballots shall list
candidates for such party positions separately by sex.

http://www.elections.state.ny.us/NYSBOE/download/law/2011NYElectionLaw.pdf

[vaberella]

10. They haven't called NYC. My sister hasn't received these calls yet.

It could be upstate geared.