Civility is the Last Refuge of Scoundrels. Truth is...the parties ARE different. (Krugman)

[jefferson_dem]

Civility is the Last Refuge of Scoundrels

At the beginning of last week, the commentariat was in raptures over the Serious, Courageous, Game-Changing Ryan plan. But now that the plan has been exposed as the cruel nonsense it is, what we’re hearing a lot about is the need for more civility in the discourse. President Obama did a bad thing by calling cruel nonsense cruel nonsense; he hurt Republican feelings, and how can we have a deal when the GOP is feeling insulted? What we need is personal outreach; let’s do lunch!

The easy, and perfectly fair, shot is to talk about the hypocrisy here; where were all the demands for civility when Republicans were denouncing Obama as a socialist, accusing him of creating death panels, etc..? Why is it OK for Republicans to accuse Obama of stealing from Medicare, but not OK for Obama to declare, with complete truthfulness, that those same Republicans are trying to dismantle the whole program?

Beyond that, are we dealing with children here? Is one of our two major political parties run by people so immature that they will refuse to do what the country needs because the president hasn’t been nice to them?

But the main point is, what are we supposed to have a civil discussion about? The truth is that the two parties have both utterly different goals and utterly different views about how the world works.

<SNIP>

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/16/civility-is-the-last-refuge-of-scoundrels/?smid=tw-NytimesKrugman&seid=auto

[CrispyQ]

1. He nails it here:

Beyond that, are we dealing with children here? Is one of our two major political parties run by people so immature that they will refuse to do what the country needs because the president hasn’t been nice to them?

Yes. That is exactly the case. The repub party reminds me of a pack of two-year olds on a rampage. They are acting like spoiled little brats & the dems need to get tough & put them in a time out corner. For. A. Very. Long. Time.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. How can it be explained how the two parties used to disagree, but

also be civil and respectful to each other, compromise positions, and pass legislation?

Not to mention legislation wasn't drafted to radically change existing programs, just maybe tweek it.

Best example of how partisonship didn't effect Members personally is the long friendship between Ted Kennedy and Orrin Hatch. They'd disagree with each other in debate and then go out to lunch together.

[Igel]

3. An answer to his question

Where were all the calls for civility when Obama was being called a socialist, etc.?

Coming from Democrats and Obama himself. That's where.

Congress has always been uncivil, but it was kept within bounds, not as frequently personal, and consisted mostly of posturing that ended when it was important to get to work, when it came to manufacturing legislation. Now posturing is considered work and PR is what they manufacture. And it's gotten worse.

All you have to do is look at how budget resolutions and budgets used to get passed to see how cooperation has gone.

[DCKit]

4. My dad ((R)-Teabagger) always got off on the old southern saying...

"Y'all come back, now"

I guess it was the last time he recognized hypocrisy.

[treestar]

5. You see it in people too

Some people will do anything to get what they want and justify it. Then if anyone does the same to them, suddenly they think there should be civility and consideration for others.

Republicans are those people. The way they see the world is self centered. The world revolves around them and their drama. Everyone else is a supporting player.

[CrispyQ]

6. Like a two year old.

;)

They are acting like two year old brats*. They need a seriously long time out in the corner. Sadly, the dems often act like enabling parents instead of putting them in their place.

* Two year olds have moments when they are adorable. Repubs never do.

[Scottybeamer70]

7. Maybe when they

give people a reason to be civil to them, it will happen.......otherwise.......

[ProudDad]

8. Oh, Really?

Our Phony Budget Battles Are All Smoke and Mirrors

Weeks of highly publicized debates - some in Congress, more in the mass media - brought Republicans and Democrats to a budget deal. To maximize public attention, they threatened a possible government shutdown. Both parties said that large government deficits and accumulated debt were "serious problems." They agreed that solving them required only spending cuts, not revenue increases. In unison, they repeated, "we" must "learn to live within our means."

In fact, both sides never actually engaged the deficit and the debt. They limited themselves to purely cosmetic, symbol-laden cuts (Republicans) and refusals to cut (Democrats). Aiming at the 2012 election, both parties used the deficit and budget debates purely to impress their voters.

http://www.alternet.org/story/150631/our_phony_budget_battles_are_all_smoke_and_mirrors?page=entire