Obama Heckled at Fundraiser by Bradley Manning Supporters

[tekisui]

Source: The Raw Story

WASHINGTON – Ten supporters of accused whistleblower Pfc. Bradley Manning paid at least $5,000 to attend a fundraiser with President Barack Obama Thursday and interrupted his speech with a song protesting soldier's treatment.

Obama was speaking at a San Francisco hotel to a room of about 200 donors -- some of whom paid as much as $35,800 to attend the event -- "when a woman in a white suit stood up and said, Mr. President we wrote you a song," according to a White House pool report.The president tried to convince her to wait, but she and her table ignored him, all ten of them breaking out into a song that protested Manning's detention in a "6x12 cell" for "23 hours a day." They sang, "We paid our dues, where's our change?"

As they began singing, a flustered Obama looked over at House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), who introduced him, and she reportedly looked equally dumbfounded by what was happening. The woman in the white suit then removed her jacket to show that she was wearing a t-shirt that read "Free Bradley Manning" and had an image of him.

(snip)

"That was a nice song," Obama said after it was over, appearing displeased. "Now where was I?"

more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/04/21/obama-heckled-at-fundraiser-by-bradley-manning-supporters/

[jefferson_dem]

1. That sounds like a cute little song they sang.

"Each of you brought you $5,000 - we'll vote for you in 2012, yes that's true, Look at the Republicans, what else can we do."

Inane "Free Bradley Manning" cause notwithstanding...

[Vattel]

2. feet to the fire

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

47. won't change a damn thing.

[KoKo]

133. You think Obama isn't going to listen to Dem Donors who dronated $5,000 a plate?

You think he isn't going to miss the donations of folks like that who take a Democratic Stand on Torture?

You gotta be kidding if you think that doesn't bother him.

[Cali_Democrat]

3. Obama is the Commander in Chief of a military that engages in torture

He deserves to be heckled.

[ClarkUSA]

13. His father disagrees with you. Where's your proof that Manning was tortured?

Tell me exactly what "torture" has he been subjected to in Leavenworth or anywhere else?

[KoKo]

134. His father has been debunked over and over here on DU. Maybe you missed it all?

Google is your friend, if you did. DU Google or regular Google.

[stevenleser]

173. His father has been debunked? Are you calling Manning a bastard? n/t

[vaberella]

26. You do realize that they're donation of 5000 to a campaign fundraiser counters their actions.

"he engages in torture" but your putting up 5000 for his campaign. How is that realistic or functional? Why not protest outside instead of donating to his cause? It sort of defeats your purpose. Especially something that's not even televised. It would have been a stronger action to protest at the facebook event where it was free entry with tickets. Not a fundraiser where you paid 5000 to his campaign. My mind boggles at the absurdity and lack of rational.

[Exilednight]

124. My mind boggles at the fact that someone has to pay $5k just to get the Presidents to hear them. So

much for democracy.

[okieinpain]

160. people pay more then that just to attend a football game. n/t.

[Exilednight]

162. That's nice, but football teams aren't suppose to be a representive of the people. n/t

[KoKo]

136. They are damned proud to give that donation so that he will LISTEN...that's Activism by

the wealthy. We poor stand on corners holding signs or rent buses (pooling resources) to get to DC to March or stand on street corners in our hometowns.

This is great to see the Wealthy Dems stand with those of us less fortunate. It's Democracy in Action..

It's to be applauded and not ridiculed...unless one is perhaps a fan of some other party's viewpoints... :shrug:

[vaberella]

4. OMG---these people had $5000 to spend on this?! Wow. I wish I had $5000.

Well they have the money they can do what they will. But I'd love to see the video because I doubt that President Obama was flustered or ever really flustered by anything.

[msanthrope]

6. They wish he was flustered--he just waited 'til they were over, made a joke, got applause,

and moved on.

[stevenleser]

7. Exactly. Meanwhile, Mannings father, who has seen him, says he is fine.

This is a complete non-issue.

[Mimosa]

16. No parent -especially a rightwinger- ever lied? n/t

[stevenleser]

21. That is what you are going with? That his dad lied? n/t

[vaberella]

22. How do you know his dad is right winger? n/t

[BklnDem75]

28. That seems kinda birtherish...

Is the dad in on the conspiracy now?

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

48. how dare we trust his lyin' Father, right?

[Vattel]

40. Actually, his Dad says he asked him how he was doing

and he said fine. His Dad also said that he looked good. So what? His Dad also complained about how he was being treated. And he was being treated in an inhumane way. Inhumane treatment of anyone is an issue.

[vaberella]

25. Exactly. And I'm like why would you come and give $5000

which basically supports his campaign when you consider him to be torturing an alleged criminal. That doesn't make any sense. Why not protest outside, why do it inside?

[KoKo]

137. Because you are against torture and have the money to put where you belief is.

It's a good thing to have the wealthy join with the rest of us who are against torture...but who can't afford to go to his fundraisers. Those people gave voice in a way that a President should be able to understand. MONEY $$$$$$$$$'s SPEAK!

[Bluenorthwest]

5. A taste of what it is like to be an actual candidate

Last time he got the star treatment, cheering crowds and delirium. This time, it will be more like real politics.

[young but wise]

9. What are you talking about?

President Obama got heckled during the 08' campaign.:shrug:

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

11. Good grief ...

Let's not start the "he's only a celebrity" lame smear already...

[FrenchieCat]

31. Yeah...cause folks showing you and your parents as apes is "Star Treatment"?

Folks asking to see your Birth Certificate every hour of the day, after you've shown it to them is Star Treatment?


Folks walking around with pics of Obama as Hitler, shortly after inauguration is Star treatment?


Folks acting like Barack Obama should have been Jesus reincarnated, and then acting mad because he isn't and never said he was is Star Treatment?


Folks linking anyone ever known to Barack Obama, and everything they have ever thought and said to be what he thinks and has said is Star Treatment, be it Bill Ayers, Rev. Wright, Rahm Emmanuel, etc, etc, etc....?


Folks forgetting what Obama has done good, and only talking about what they don't like is star treatment?


Folks screaming out "you lie" during the SOTUS is star Treatment?



Compared to what, and on what planet do these "Stars" reside? :shrug:

[KoKo]

138. It's true. He was a young rising Rock Star ...but now the weight of the Country rests on him.

It's now time to be the grown up. It's not easy going from rock star to having to deal with reality.

I wish him well in his transition. He really needs to get the transition in gear soon, though.. Times are getting tougher for all of us out here. And, he owns his policies now. His people are running the Government...His Picks. His mistakes and his triumphs are his, alone to answer for. Whether he had a Dem or Repug Congress won't matter in 2012, if folks feel things aren't better for them since he was elected.

[Phx_Dem]

8. I'd take it the same way I would if Iwas being heckled by Bernie Maddoff supporters.

Obviously a different and less offensive crime by Maddoff, but when supporters of either of these two assholes heckles you, it's a badge of honor.

[tekisui]

10. He hasn't been tried or convicted of any crime.

[jefferson_dem]

12. Yet.

I hope they throw the book (and then some) at the little traitorous prick and house him under Leavenworth until he is no more.

[Mimosa]

15. So you support the continuance and expansion of Bush's wars? n/t

[jefferson_dem]

17. Um...

Your assumption bears zero relationship to my comment. I'm talking about Manning's vile wikileaks escapades.

[sudopod]

33. Traitorous? Vile?

Who actually talks like that?

Besides, aren't you the people who are always "LOVE OBAMA OR YOU'LL GET PALIN!!!111one"? They're doing exactly what you want by showing strong support but voicing displeasure. What more do you want?

[jefferson_dem]

41. I guess I do...

talk like that. Deal with it.

I am, in fact, pleased this chorus of protesters is supporting Obama. Of course, they are free to express their displeasure along the way. Does that mean I have to sign onto their (misguided) cause? Nah...

[Hippo_Tron]

24. So you support the continuance and expansion of Bush's either with us or against us mentality?

Surprising as it may be, some people can oppose wars and still think that Bradley Manning was wrong to leak classified information.

[Mimosa]

29. NO. I don't believe a person is guilty before he has been fairly tried and convicted, either.

I don't know what Bradley manning did. I know what he is accused of doing. This is still the United states of America, is it not?

BTW, it's amazing Manning - a KID by age, gullible and seemingly immature, as one might surmise from reading his online conversations with agent Adrian Lamer (Lamer -forget his name but that's close- was obviously a government agent) was placed in a position where thousands of top secret classified communications were made available to him. That the US Army trusted a KID with such sensitive information is crazy. One would think that the Army would have been smart enough to confine access to such communications to trusted, experienced Army Intelligence officers, not green PFCs!

[BklnDem75]

32. Yet you believe torture is being done without a shred of proof

Funny how that works.

[Hippo_Tron]

125. In your opinion at what age does someone become mature enough to handle that information?

I'm Bradley Manning's age and I can tell you for a fact that the CIA and NSA recruit plenty of people my age and gives them Top Secret clearances. I've even been asked to vouch for one of them in a background check.

And while I don't work for the government or have a security clearance, there's plenty of dumb shit that I could do and have to live with the consequences for the rest of my life. The fact that he's young is a really dumb excuse. If Jared Loughner's lawyers tried to use that in his defense, they would be laughed out of the courtroom.

[boppers]

156. LOL, you mean Adrian Lamo.

Not a government agent, he's a (sometimes) homeless semi-famous freelance hacker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Lamo

He's got some mental issues, some drug issue, but overall, a nice kid. He does do contract work for FBI, NSA, etc., but most of the skilled hackers I've met do (whether they know it or not).

Full Disclosure: I, too, have done such work. It doesn't make you an agent.

As far as your estimation goes of "Military Intelligence" goes, you might be shocked if you dig too deep. Technology is developing faster than the US military, with its huge budget, can handle.

As just one example, part of the Manning leak was the use of advanced (by which I mean 90's era, 20 years ago) technology called a "CD" drive, some newfangled thing that upper-level military folks in their 50's and 60's don't all quite understand yet, because they allowed a PFC to use one... on a computer with sensitive data....

(Do I need a sarcasm tag?)

[vaberella]

30. What are you talking about?

In general most DUers do want to end the wars, but what the hell does that have to do with Manning. I think the fundamental that's going on here is that some people are quick to paint the guy a hero, a "whistleblower", or a torture victim. A hero is questionable if it's true that he did do what he did. A "whistleblower"....leaking classified information is normally not seen in a great light. I mean do we all love "Scooter" Libby? I didn't see many DUers defending that or the story behind his detention to prosecution. Actually it was admonished. Yes, of course, he has yet to be prosecuted but I hardly think he would not be imprisoned if he they didn't have some reasonable doubt as to "flight risk"---these are US confidential files. As a matter of a fact the guy who quit because of his "treatment" actually said that his actions were wrong and did damage national safety on Cenk Ungur's show.

So this notion comparison between the Bush wars and this are a bit ridiculous. Not to mention the "continuation" or "expansion" coming from you are a bit weird. Obama NEVER ran on the idea that going into Afghanistan was not his priority or one of his biggest. So to throw that in the mix is a bit absurd. I would have to question the voter. If you didn't know, you'd have to be deaf, dumb, and stupid---sorry to say. As far as Iraq---that war is ended and the final troop countdown is on it's way. Or did you ignore the massive number of troops that were coming out last summer---I mean Tweety, KO, and Rachel had a show about it. Actually Rachel filmed on location last summer to see for herself. So---this idea that they're continuing and growing without a draw down is absurd. It's even more absurd since more are coming out and there has been no information a move away from that plan this later summer/fall/winter.


I'm still not connecting the wars to Manning.

[sudopod]

34. You do realize he is responsibe for several of the videos showing our military killing civilians

right? If that doesn't count, what does?

[vaberella]

71. No it doesn't. B/c it has absolutely no connection to the argument made by the poster.

And actually if we want to say that---which means you are basically adhering to the belief he did committ a crime here-- he's also been accused, by the same man who put in his resignation because of Manning's treatment---as causing more retaliation from AQ and the deaths of more soldiers. If we go there---he's inadvertently to blame for some of those.

But to go back to the argument made by that poster---there is no correlation.

[sudopod]

88. I would say that the people to blame for outrage in Iraq

are the people who pulled the trigger on innocents while laughing and the people who covered for them. One would think such videos would put a dent in a decent human being's desire to continue our middle eastern wars, but alas, I fear that we are becoming a nation of monsters, our senses of empathy being completely dulled.

I don't think anyone says that Manning didn't break the law as currently formulated, if he is responsible for the leaks. Mind you, the only real evidence that I am aware of is the chat log with Mr. Lamo, who himself has a criminal past RE: hacking and was himself in trouble with the law and looking to raise his status with the government. To claim that he should have gone through "proper channels" is ludicrous, though, considering just how many fucks the military and the government seem to give about murdering random Muslim people. It is also ridiculous to claim that he has released vital secrets, considering the computer system he accessed is available to 2 million people, and no thing that is available to 2 million people is a secret.

However, I think, as do many people around the world, that this punishment does not fit the suspected crime. He has also certainly not received as swift trial. The terms of his confinement are damaging to mental health, and have been criticized by experts the world over. I would argue that if he is to be prosecuted, move on with it, and in humane conditions, and if the weight of evidence is against him, then so be it.

Ideally, IMO, he should be pardoned. That is one of the reasons that the President has such a power. People willing to stand against the war machine deserve encouragement, not terror for their lives, and whislteblower statues are so much paper in the face of power today.

[vaberella]

91. At the world "pardoned" I lost interst in continuing this discussion.

I'll wait until there is a statement to the public. But I sincerely doubt that the Pentagon or whoever would keep him in custody without vital information that proves he has committed a crime. They'd have to have proper and enough evidence. So a "parodon" uh no. And I'm tired of crap of him being labeled a "whistleblower." Hardly.

[sudopod]

93. Well, then.

"But I sincerely doubt that the Pentagon or whoever would keep him in custody without vital information that proves he has committed a crime. hey'd have to have proper and enough evidence." (Guantanimo? Lolz)

MFW.



I wish I lived where you do. It sounds like a much nicer place than where I am.

[KoKo]

139. What proof do you have that he "isn't" a whistleblower, though? Or that he even did what they say?

:shrug:

[sudopod]

85. replied to wrong post

derp

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

87. Manning as a modern-day John Brown!

Goodness... Now i've almost heard it all. :crazy:

Manning dragged a few thousand classified files over to a flash drive and delivered it to wikileaks. You know what John Brown did, right?

[ProudDad]

92. Yep

Just like John Brown, Joe Hill, Eugene V Debs, Daniel Ellsberg and other great patriots in history who have exposed the lies of Empire at great personal risk...

[phleshdef]

39. Neither has Jared Loughner.

And no I'm not comparing the 2. But some people are obviously guilty before the trial. We don't have to go around pretending they aren't.

[tekisui]

42. No one is guilty before trial, that is the purpose of a trial.

And all accused should be treated with dignity and human rights should be protected.

[jefferson_dem]

44. True. But this group was calling on Obama to "free Bradley Manning"...

That's asinine.

Give the accused a fair trial, with full protections as required by the US Constitution. If convicted, let him suffer the penalty.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

50. the problem is, even if he's guilty, his supporters think he did nothing wrong.

They want classified info to be leaked at will.
They don't have any problem with it.

[phleshdef]

57. There are legal channels that allow military personnel to become whistle blowers.

Manning didn't follow those channels. Manning screwed Manning.

[phleshdef]

54. No one is guilty from a legal perspective no. That doesn't mean we can't talk about what is known.

From all I've read on this matter, it seems pretty clear that Bradley Manning is in fact a member of military and did in fact, intentionally, copy and distribute classified military documents to a foreign organization. And this is in fact, illegal, given that he didn't use the proper channels to release such information using legal military whistleblower channels (such as getting a lawyer and releasing the information directly to a member of Congress, which may have saved his ass had he done it that way).

No one is saying he should be regarded as guilty in the legal sense, pre-trial. But in casual, non-binding conversation, we know enough to not have to pretend he didn't do what he has been accused of. You aren't going to stop people from discussing the facts of his actions just because he hasn't been sentenced yet.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

49. He hasn't been punished for any crime yet.

[tekisui]

51. Solitary confinement is punishment.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

52. so all this hubbub is just to get him a cellmate?

[tekisui]

53. It is to respect the rights of the accused and uphold the

Constitution and Treaties we have signed onto.

[phleshdef]

56. By that logic, doing anything to him other than letting him run free until trial is punishment.

Yet for some reason, never in our history have we had a time where we don't keep certain people detained while they await trial. And this has never been a major issue in ANY ideological circle... I guess UNTIL NOW.

And don't obscure the issue. What you ultimately have a problem with is the military's standards for handling high profile suspects that are one of their own. But this kind of stuff with the military has been going on probably as long as we've had a military. Military suspects and military convicts are treated with a different standard than civilians. They have it harsher. Maybe thats not right, and maybe there needs to be something changed there. But there is plenty of legal leeway thats been provided over the decades that allows the military to pretty much own your ass once you sign up. You lose some rights during your time at duty. This is no big secret. Its part of a military social and legal culture thats older than Barack Obama has been alive.

[tekisui]

58. No, solitary and some of the other reported conditions are punitive.

Detaining while respecting human dignity and rights is the issue. I also have a problem with the treatment of all detainees that the US holds prior to conviction when those conditions are not to the standard that the Constitution and Treaties hold us.

I can't speak for others, but this has always been a concern for me.

[phleshdef]

96. But can you deny that its been a long running standard that military personnel...

...willingly sign over a certain measure of their dignity to be subject to the whim of the military leadership? Again, I'm not saying its right. But just stuff that people can experience in basic training can be just as, if not more, humiliating than the kind of stuff Manning has been subjected to. When you voluntarily enter the military, you give them some serious privileges.

[ProudDad]

78. Nice screed

too bad you don't know what you're talking about... :eyes:

[phleshdef]

98. There is a big difference between you and the other poster I was responding to.

One of you actually makes some well thought out arguments, that I may or may not disagree with, but are respectable in their own right.

The other one of you just runs your damn mouth but doesn't actually say much thats all that useful.

I'll let you decide which is most likely which.

[vaberella]

72. No it's not.

It's basically part and parcel with the American prison system. If he was denied sleep---that would be torturous. But that's more conjecture than realty based.

[ClarkUSA]

14. What idiots. They're media attention whores who have money to burn.

[tekisui]

18. They are Obama's constituents and contributing to his campaign handsomely.

I wouldn't call them idiots.

[ClarkUSA]

19. I hope they keep contributing even though they're wealthy media attention whoring idiots...

... who believe Manning's lawyers' bullshit and ignore Manning's father's own words. But hey, every penny counts.

[msanthrope]

20. I bet Manning's lawyer wished he got that 76k....

Cripes. That's a lot of money to blow on a stunt.

[vaberella]

27. That's what I was thinking. Whoever thought this up is stupid.

It's just a stupidly expensive idea which is counterproductive and not even helpful to their cause. You help the man who's torturing the man you want to fight for....? What?! Oy. Worse than any teabagger stunt.

[sudopod]

35. What do you want from everyone exactly?

You say it's the end of the world if we don't love the President as much as you, but when people who clearly have connections and money enough to go to a fundraising event and are willing to put up five large apiece do so, it's "counterproductive" and "worse than any teabagger stunt."

What are people who want to get the President's attention supposed to do? Write letters? LOL!

[ProudDad]

68. You can't get THIS pResident's attention

unless you have a lot of green...

The Corporate States of USAmerica - One dollar = One Vote...

[ecstatic]

176. "pResident" ?? Are you sure you're on the right site?

Did President Obama still the election or something?

[Bobbie Jo]

180. tRoll.

:eyes:

[vaberella]

76. Stop putting words in my bloody mouth.

I never said that kind of crap. What I said was why would you spend $5000 on this. It's a waste of resources that can be better spent especially if ones believe in the cause for Bradley Manning. Such as sending to his lawyers or protesting outside the event. But paying the fee is ridiculous. I'm surprised you don't think it's ridiculous. These people already think Obama is promoting torture and that Manning is being tortured---does it make logical sense to you to give him money?

I never said right letters. We get attention with protests. If you think it's logical. More power to you. The stupidity of it boggles my mind. If I was so against what Obama's doing there is no way I would spend my hard earned money on something that benefits him to continue to do what he does---and with the added advantage of ignoring me. Lame.

And it sure is "counterproductive" and "worse than any teabagger stunt" except maybe bringing guns to an Obama rally.

[sudopod]

82. You're assuming that hey weren't already Obama supporters

and connected in the local Dem party.

[vaberella]

128. Actually that's not the case.

I would not spend $5000 if I find the actions of the President so deplorable. I would be boycotting his events and protesting in that way. $5000 pays for one year of my university. I think there are so many more productive ways to spend this money.

[sudopod]

132. ...that's not really what i would expect you to say considering

how angry you often are with critics of the President.

[tekisui]

151. What is a more productive way?

These folks conveyed their message and got a response. How else could they do that?

[ProudDad]

67. They won't...

I'm pretty sure they'll be out there exposing his lies and hypocrisy as I will...

[vaberella]

79. Well their stupidity earned him 75K.

At this point they spent all their money on exposing their illogical protest.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudDad]

94. Ah, personal attack instead of argument

Typical...

[vaberella]

129. Was it personal...I wasn't sure. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

23. Shit, if Obama can make 75 grand to listen to a song his campaign will be well funded

If I were him I'd invite these people to the next fundraiser.

[Tarheel_Dem]

77. That's what I'm thinking. $76 grand, and a song to boot? Win! Win!

:rofl:

[Tarheel_Dem]

36. CORRECTION: "Obama Heckled by Koch Sponsored Teabaggers". (nt)

[ProudDad]

66. Yeah, right...

:eyes:

[Armstead]

37. I don't know or care about the Manning case -- But the reaction here is distressing

I'll admit that Bradley Manning is not one of my own hot buttons. I don't know the truth of his treatment, so I can't say whether he is being treated justly or unjustly.

So I don't have a dog in that fight.

However, those who do believe there has been an important violation of his civil liberties have every right to protest. And, rather than undermining their cause, the fact that they put together big bucks to be able to bring their positions to the attention of the President means that they are willing to put their money where their mouths are.

And if this had happened to GW, most people on DU would be cheering them on.

But since it is a Democratic President, some people here have become like the authoritarian right-wingnuts in demeaning and insulting them: Just a bunch of leftist malcontents. What a bunch of silly fools. How dare they claim that Manning is not being treated well?...blah,blah,blah.

And what is really annoiying is that many of the the same people always say: "You don't like it? Than stop just complaining and do something about it."

Let's just keep that circular firing squad going, shall we?

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

46. Those who support Manning as a martyr don't think leaking classified info is a crime.

They act like he's in jail for nothing.

And they also claim sleeping naked is torture.

How can anyone take them seriously?

[ProudDad]

75. "Leaking" "classified information"

in this disgusting hypocritical Empire...

Is a Patriotic Act...

I pray many more do it...

As for being locked up 23+ hours a day in a metal box with NO human contact, naked, shivering, with no distractions of any kind...

It's exactly the same kind of torture - softening up the victim for interrogation - practiced in Syria, Egypt and Guantanamo and many other torture chambers of the Empire.

You try it for a while then get back to me about how "benign" that shit is, ok a**hole?

[Vattel]

108. Who has claimed that sleeping naked is torture?

Who has denied that leaking classified information is a crime? Keep pummeling those straw men.

[ProudDad]

73. +1000

Thanks for your (rare?) voice of Reason...

My partner did something similar to this by financing a table for Code Pink at a local talk by Adm. Mullen. It cost her $800 but she considered it worth it to enable them to ask Mullen an "Inconvenient Question" about the Permanent War Economy(tm)...to the gasps of most others attending.

Money is basically trash -- to use the Empire's "money" against them is a revolutionary act...

But you are right. It is very depressing to see people purporting to be "democrats" parroting what used to be far-right talking points against their own interest and the interests of all Working Class Folk...

Amazing!

[vaberella]

81. I think there is more constructive ways of using that kind of money. A commercial maybe?! n/t

[golfguru]

119. The publicity generated by that incident exceeds

any $76,000 ad could have generated.

[vaberella]

130. Why is this being touted?

Was this news on the MSM? Because I just see this being talked about on DU.

[golfguru]

140. I saw that news elsewhere before seeing it on DU

Please don't ask me where, I read voraciously and keep no records.

[Union Scribe]

116. Yeah, funny how nowadays protesting authority is unacceptable

if that authority is wearing a D cape.

[golfguru]

118. K&R

My party right or wrong never appealed to me.

[krabigirl]

127. Honestly, most people in this country are authoritarians to the extreme.

[boppers]

157. Protesting against all authority is not what a Democratic Republic is about.

That being said, the Democratic side is often more sympathetic to the Anarchic side, regardless of their numbers.

[woolldog]

38. I guess I don't understand why Manning has become

a cause célèbre to the Left? It's embarrassing that so many on the left feel so sympathetic toasted him.

The man is a traitor and should get the death penalty for it.

[PragmaticLiberal]

43. Yeah, it's puzzling to me as well.....

[tekisui]

45. Bullshit. He is not traitor. He exposed war crimes.

[BklnDem75]

55. BS is right.

He passed off a trove of classified documents without bothering to care what was in them. He's no hero.

[tekisui]

60. A great hero. Exposed a variety of war crimes and lies.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. I hope there are hundreds of more Manning's to bravely come forth and expose this corrupt, murderous empire for what it is!

Thank you Bradley Manning and Wikileaks!!!

[BklnDem75]

70. I'm sure his mates will think so

In Leavenworth

[sudopod]

97. Don't you love that warm fuzzy feeling you get

when you hear about people acting up and getting crushed by Authority?

[BklnDem75]

99. Are you one of those...

'stick it to Authority no matter how severe the crime is' types?

[sudopod]

101. Nope.

Are you one of these types?

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

[BklnDem75]

103. The type that clicks on weird links?

Nope

[sudopod]

104. LOL

I'll save you from having to click a potentially deadly link to a Canadian university.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Authoritarians/dp/B002ACQPSW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303502292&sr=8-1

The PDF is here, which was, of course, linked to from the dread U. of Manitoba site.

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

[BklnDem75]

107. Ah ok. Glad you made it more clearer.

Nope

[tekisui]

114. I am one of those uphold the rights and dignities of all people types.

I am one of those hold authority accountable at all times types. I one of those always check authority, always support transparency and recognize that our government can't usually be trusted types.

[BklnDem75]

120. Except when you're accusing someone of a crime

Then you don't care if you have very little to no information. Only then do THEIR rights not exist.

[tekisui]

121. What are you talking about?

Who are you talking about?

[BklnDem75]

123. Isn't your stance that Obama and those under him are committing a crime with Manning?

Aren't you claiming they're torturers and war criminals with zero evidence?

[tekisui]

141. No. I am advocating transparency and access.

From what I have read, the solitary confinement and other treatment could very well be violations of the Constitution and Geneva Conventions. The fact that access is so restricted in light of that possibility concerns me. I would like to see independent sources have access to make a better determination.

I am not saying he is being tortured. He may be, but I don't know. I simply don't trust the government, I have no reason to. And when they block access and when the ACLU and the UN say that it could be going too far, I pay attention and want more information.

[BklnDem75]

142. Transparency to the people of the US

Or transparency to the world? Manning did the latter.

[tekisui]

143. Both. Transparency to the citizens of the world.

I love that Manning exposed lies and war crimes for all to see. I love that more information is sitting ready to be released. I love that the people of the US have a better understanding of how corrupt and callous our falling empire is. I love that the rest of the world sees it, too.

[BklnDem75]

144. Every country have their secrets

I simply can't cosign with your world view. Call Manning a hero if it pleases you, but he's where he belongs. I have zero sympathy for people who don't weigh the consequences of their actions. America's image will take a hit, but you're reading too much into these leaks if you're expecting something big to come of it.

[tekisui]

145. Who are you to say he didn't weigh his consequences?

I know it takes a lot for a dying empire to admit it. But, each wikileaks helps that end. I long to see the US give up on the idea that we are some empire that is a manager of the world. I think wikileaks, and namely Mannings actions help that end. Is it the end? Of course not. Empires do not accept their defeat easily. But, it is one more step to that end. Thank you Bradley Manning! You are a hero! May others follow your brave path!

[BklnDem75]

148. 250,000 leaked cables?

Yes, I'm saying he didn't weigh the consequences. Once again, he's where he belongs. Don't worry though, Assange is getting paper.

[tekisui]

150. Fuck yeah! I wish it was more than your number,

The more the better. A true hero. He knows what he is up against. Had he been challenging an Administration that truly transparency, maybe he would shine. But, alas, we are getting lip service and indicting of a hero.

But, again. He knew what he was facing. He did it anyway. God bless you Mr. Manning! We love you!

[Name removed]

153. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mimosa]

155. Manning is accused of crimes. In USA, the accused are presumed innocent until tried and convicted?

Has the Constitution been rewritten lately?

[boppers]

158. Presumed innocent does not mean "run free".

Especially if your purported crime was "laundering secrets through hidden channels".

[BklnDem75]

163. Is it your stance that Manning didn't do what he's accused of?

[tekisui]

164. It doesn't matter. Until proven guilty at trial, he is not guilty of any crime.

[BklnDem75]

165. In the court of law

I don't need such a trial to determine guilt.

[Name removed]

167. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BklnDem75]

169. I don't follow your logic

A person isn't guilty unless the courts says he is? And I'm following the leader?

So if you witness a murder and the prosecution is unable to prove it, does that mean the person is innocent?

[Mimosa]

174. I bet you'd be a fair juror. *NOT*

Manning is accused of certain crimes. I suppose his trial will be in a federal court before a judge, not a juror.

Brooklyn, you made up your mind Manning is guilty of everything of which he is accused? Most of us don't know all the facts. Some of us don't believe in convicting somebody without a fair trial. It's an old American tradition. Maybe you haven't heard. ;)

[BklnDem75]

179. Says the person who think's Manning's dad is part of the conspiracy.

You're far from impartial.

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tekisui]

113. Huh?

I don't recall agitating to get into war with Libya. I do remember being torn on supporting the objective and concerned about the use of force. I don't understand the second part of your question: "didn't want the opposition to allow Gaddafi to step down?"


I have long wanted Gaddafi to go. I have no idea where you get that I didn't want the opposition to allow him to go. Why would the opposition try to prevent that?

Setting all of that to the side. What does that have to do with the war crimes that Manning exposed?

[TheKentuckian]

62. The Constitution defines treason. Manning didn't do that and is not being charged with treason

You are talking out of your unchecked military supporting ass.

[ProudDad]

65. +1000

:rofl:

[ProudDad]

64. Exposing war crimes is a public good...

The ones who should be locked away are the vicious bastards who keep the wars going for corporate profits...

They're the traitors...

Oh, and those who support them...

[SusanaMontana41]

171. Hear hear! n/t

[KoKo]

102. He's not been tried, nor convicted of anything. Or, do you not believe in "Rule of Law?"

Maybe you need to read the US Bill of Rights? Ya Think?

[woolldog]

168. I don't need a trial and conviction

to form an opinion on whether he's did what he's accused of. Of course he should have a trial and all that. But he will likely be found guilty if it goes to trial.

[LWolf]

175. IF???

Are you suggesting that someone accused of a crime should not have a trial?

[shellgame26]

59. Bradley Manning is subject to UCMJ

He is not a civilian. I was in the military. Not a day went by when I wasn't reminded of that fact.
What I would really like to know from Matt Damon is:

What is it exactly that you want President Obama to do?

[vaberella]

83. Don't ask celebrities questions that demand intellect. n/t

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shellgame26]

95. Oh so that's what the protests are all about?

Really? Obama should "order humane treatment of the accused". Thanks for letting me know. Maybe I should have told that to my drill sargeants back when I was in basic training.

And how exactly should he do that? Does he make a speech, sign an order...what?? and will he review the treatment of all others convicted under UCMJ or just Bradley Manning?

[Vattel]

109. He's the CIC. The UCMJ doesn't require solitary for Manning.

It would be easy for him to have put a stop to it. He wouldn't need to review every military detention.

Any more easy questions?

[boppers]

159. He's not in solitary.

He can have visitors, with monitoring, and he's under what in laymen's terms is "suicide watch", after he talked about killing himself.

Starting with a wrong promise leads to wrong conclusions.

[Vattel]

161. He was allowed visitors 3 hrs on Sunday.

If you want to mince words and say that technically that's not solitary, fine. The crucial point is that his treatment was inhumane. Suicide watch does not require the social isolation to which he was subjected.

[Sky Masterson]

100. War Criminal?

What bullshit!

[ProudDad]

61. Hooray!!!

Good for them!

Get ready for much more of this Mr. Obama...

Hypocrisy occasionally gets 'rewarded'...

[BklnDem75]

74. Money, singing and laughter?

Where do I sign up for that?

[ProudDad]

80. Oh, believe me, he's in for a lot less pleasant confrontations than this one (n/t)

[BklnDem75]

84. A dance routine?

Ugh! Maybe you're right.

[vaberella]

131. " lot less pleasant confrontations"---What does that mean? n/t

[Swede]

105. "there's something you don't see every day"

Great response from the President. Oh and thanks for the cash,he should have added.

[JoePhilly]

106. He could have also said ... "Normally I would have had to pay for that ... not

the other way around".

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jenmito]

111. Your comment about Obama being arrogant is in line with the RW meme against Obama. Congrats. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

115. It's hard work rationalizing the transfer of rage from Bush to Pres Obama. nt

[jenmito]

122. True, but some manage to find a way to do it. n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

117. At some point, I guess, you just have to feel sorry

For these folks. Running on nothing but piss, vinegar, and misinformation.

Shame.

[Dkc05]

126. Funny as he'll. Paid lots of cash to do it.

Obama smiles and thanks them for their cash contribution. Funny as he'll.

[sudopod]

135. Jesus really doesn't care if you say hell.

It's just geography, isn't it?

[tekisui]

146. Which is why I think it was a pretty good tactic.

If it had been an open event, first, there would have been so many people it would have been drowned out. Second, it would have been shut down quickly.

Since everyone present forked over the cash, they let it go. Great to get the entirety on video and that the ticket-price allowed them to finish.

[johnaries]

147. I saw the vid, that's not what Obama said and the extra commentary

about how he looked at Pelosi and Pelosi looked ... etc. is all bullshit.

It amazes me that the people who laud Manning for "releasing the truth" keep clouding and misrepresenting the truth, themselves.

Can you say "hypocrite"? Sure, I knew you could.

[TK421]

149. Obama, I would have said "That was really out of tune"

[fried eggs]

154. They should have put the money into Manning's defense fund

[Keith Bee]

166. Kick for Comparison

[MNBrewer]

170. Good

[xchrom]

172. may much more of this come your way mr obama. nt

[ZombieHorde]

177. Good for them. nt

[MasonJar]

178. An expensive protest.

[jenmito]

181. Kick for people to watch the video-at 1:45 in, they say, "Thank you for listening. We love you,"

and blow a kiss to him. Then Obama makes some funny comments about it, and how creative it was, etc., and the audience laughed. How convenient that the article left out what they said, claiming Obama appeared "displeased." Watch for yourself. The singers make the comments in my subject line at about 1:45: http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/04/obama-supporters-sing-in-support-of-bradley-manning/