Let me say this EXPLICITLY: I'm GLAD that he's DEAD

[Keith Bee]

This is Democratic Underground, not Pacifist Underground. Look, the Iraq War was, and remains, bullshit. Desert Storm was bullshit. Vietnam was bullshit. But I'm tired of the equivocation and soul-searching that I've seen here over the past 71 hours. Killing bin Laden was the right thing to do. Mission really Accomplished this time. And now we can (and should!) bring our guys and gals home from the hellhole without delay.

[Diamonique]

1. I totally agree! k&r

[Drale]

2. Maybe the premise that HW Bush used for Desert Storm was bullshit

but the Iraq's did invade a sovereign nation for oil. I know I know thats what Bush and his cronies did, but that doesn't make either of them correct. And the Iraq's did a ton of physical damage in Kuwait.

[Keith Bee]

9. Like "disconnecting baby incubators"?

Gimme a break: Kuwait was and is an emirate, not a democracy. Two British diplomats drew lines on a map after World War I, arbitrarily making the traditional 19th province of Iraq into the "sovereign nation" you're citing.

[mkultra]

59. thats totally not true

Kuwait sought British protection in 1899. It was never a province of Iraq. It was questionably a histrocal part of both saudi arabia and the ottomon empire. Iraq formally recognized Kuwait's independence and its borders in October 1963

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. We should but we all know we WON'T:

>>>Mission really Accomplished this time. And now we can (and should!) bring our guys and gals home from the hellhole without delay.>>>>


And why is that, exactly?

Speaking of soul-searching..........

[Keith Bee]

13. oh I'M sorry

You'd like our troops to stay? And, throwing your query right back atcha, why is that, exactly?

[Smarmie Doofus]

16. Guess "soul searching" is just not your thing. Sorry to annoy you.

>>>You'd like our troops to stay? >>>>

Not in the least. But they will anyway. (Right?)

>>>>And, throwing your query right back atcha, why is that, exactly?>>>>

Not sure. But it ( they're remaining there) doesn't seem to have much to do w. Osama Bin Laden, does it?

[Keith Bee]

19. You seem to be agreeing with me, so why the......ohhhhh...I get it.

"Smarmie Doofus." I hadn't really noticed your moniker before. ;-)

[Yavin4]

4. And It Takes Away A Major Chip from the Neocons

who use the specter of Bin Laden for justification of continued war in the Middle East.

[sad sally]

5. just a thought...

”I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.”
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

[Keith Bee]

14. A noble thought, indeed

But, sadly, the history of this planet is filled with darkness. And fear. And hatred. And rage.

[sweetloukillbot]

43. MLK didn't say that.

Or rather he didn't say the first line. It's a Facebook hoax. The second sentence and the rest of the longer quote showing up on FB are from Dr. King, but the "I mourn the loss of thousands..." sentence isn't his.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/martin-luther-king-jr-misquoted-after-osama-bin-laden-killed/2011/05/03/AFNKPjfF_blog.html

[cliffordu]

6. K&R

x1000

[elocs]

7. Agreed. Legal purists aside, a live OBL on trial would have been an ongoing nightmare.

For those even remotely in touch with reality, we live in an imperfect world. The legal purists live in their own little world of absolute moral and legal perfection that has no relationship to the reality that the rest of us must deal with on a daily basis.

Nothing is ever right enough or good enough for them so they live is a perpetual state of discontent. Yet in their self-righteousness they stand in judgment on all that passes before them.

[Enrique]

8. only 99% of DU posts are celebrating the death

we must stomp out the 1% expressing misgivings!!!

[TheWraith]

12. Oh, bullshit.

I know people here love to play the persecuted minority, but the reality is that dissenting voices get an order of magnitude more attention here than in the real world. In reality, 80+ percent of Democrats approve of Obama--here, it's probably 40%, if that. Nationally, probably 95% of people approve of the mission to get Bin Laden, but here, you can barely go a page without hearing someone lecturing about how it's evil.

The reality is that, as much as it can be satisfying to feel put upon, you're not being censored just because your opinion is in the minority. You are entitled to speak: you are NOT entitled to have people agree with you.

[DevonRex]

10. ITA. It's not religious underground either.

I'm sick of being preached to here. I'd have pulled the trigger myself.

[Keith Bee]

28. I'm agnostic, dude

My reference to "soul-searching" had NOTHING to do with religion of any kind.

[TheWraith]

11. Re: "Desert Storm was bullshit"

Yes, but only because we had--at least by virtue of incompetence---pre-approved the invasion by telling Saddam that we had no position if he went after Kuwait.

There's nothing wrong with helping to stop wars of aggression. The problem is when you accidentally helped START said war of aggression by telling the aggressor that it was all cool.

[OwnedByFerrets]

23. Thank you for saying it

[last_texas_dem]

15. What's funny is

how much more "pacifistic" the general consensus on this site seemed to be- back when we had a Republican president to oppose instead of a Democratic president to "support."

[burning rain]

17. Agree.

God, do I loathe pacifists and Gandhi-quoters. They don't bring about peace; they just leave it to others to defend them, since they won't defend themselves.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Teaser]

20. TFH

[Keith Bee]

29. Elvis is hiding in Pakistan too

:rofl:

[Hawaii Hiker]

21. Like NBC's Jim Miklaszewski said: The Seal Team goes after

known enemy combatants, this wasn't a drug bust or going after someone for unpaid child support..Who knows if they were strapped w/a bomb, or if they could have activated an IED...

[Keith Bee]

33. Excellent point

[rug]

22. What other things gladden you?

[ellie]

24. Me too

I have a hard time scrounging up tears for a mass murderer.

[backscatter712]

25. The subhuman fuck murdered thousands in cold blood.

He should have thought about the consequences of crashing planes into buildings and killing 3,000 people. Now I frankly don't want to hear the wailing and gnashing about his human rights.

Because HE ISN'T EVEN HUMAN!!! SO HE DOESN'T GET RIGHTS!!!

I'll add myself to the looooong list of people who would have pulled the trigger himself. Execution-style in the back of the head.

The world's a better place without OBL in it!

[Hissyspit]

34. Yeah.

Who doesn't know all that?

Doesn't make this arrogant OP worth any serious consideration.

[Keith Bee]

35. Arrogant OP? Did you even READ the OP?

I'm against violent solutions 95% of the time. But, unfortunately, there are people in this world for whom reason is nonexistent, and who have to be taken out.

[Hissyspit]

36. Yes.

I did.

Wanting the troops to come home is all well and fine, but I made my points about the problems with your OP in #32. I will apologize for coming across two harsh. It is not my generally consistent approach to posting here.

[GeorgeGist]

26. Obviously it is not ...

Progressive Underground.

[ZombieHorde]

27. This isn't I'm GLAD that he's DEAD Underground either.

You're tired of soul-searching? Soul found! What is soul-searching?

soul-search·ing (slsûrchng)
n. A penetrating examination of one's motives, convictions, and attitudes.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/soul-searching

I think we need more soul-searching, not less.

[Keith Bee]

38. Soul-searching in general is good: I wish the hell Bush had done more of it.

But I firmly believe that this particular case was cut-and-dried.

PS: I love your stalking zombie! :rofl:

[MedicalAdmin]

30. What was accomplished?

Do you really think this solved anything?

I agree with your position of bringing the troops home. Hell, they shouldn't have been sent in the first place, but we needed the oil and gas and rare minerals... so in the troops went, along with a huge ass amount of mercenaries who we just handed billions in cash....

Waddaclusterfuck.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Keith Bee]

39. "the past 71 hours"

You read that part of the OP, Bunny?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Keith Bee]

40. I'll give you this much:

You sure as Hell live up to your screen name! }(

[Puglover]

44. I hate these but for this I'll do it.

+10000!

[ChadwickHenryWard]

51. +1.

Don't put up with that shit.

[Phx_Dem]

37. Ditto. I am ecstatic that the motherf'ker is dead.

Some people are just too evil to walk the earth.

[lindalou65]

46. Me too---glad he is gone

Bin Laden certainly gave no thought of those he killed. All of the innocent people---he showed no mercy or concern for their lives. What about their rights? I don't typically feel this way but when someone is this evil...... Even if we had tried to take him alive, I wonder if he would have let that happen. The man orchestrated the murder of thousands!

[Keith Bee]

41. Inspired by a DUer in GD

I'm happy to see some people live in the real world.

[xocet]

42. Best leave here if fatigue set in after only 71 hours....

Other than that you seem to have mastered EMPHATIC reasoning quite well: it is a shame that you don't have access to more font styles. HTML gurus often admit that truly nuanced argument can be expressed only by the use of a fifth font style.

[Keith Bee]

48. 501 giving 1,000+ advice

Ah, no thanks.

[xocet]

53. Allow me to correct your typographical mistake: 501 giving +1000 advice....

Also, please note that mistaking quantity for quality is a common gaffe. Being smart but not "intellectual", you should know this. (By the way, you have the oddest profile comment. What is it code for and how much will I have to pay to cross that bridge?)

[Fuddnik]

45. Enthusiastcally unreccing.

Grow up already.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Keith Bee]

49. Little boy playing tit-for-tat

Well played, sir.

:sarcasm:

[Keith Bee]

52. Shee-it, I just realied you COULDN'T unrec

Time ran out. ;-)

[palmtree guy]

47. I am glad he is dead too

I really am, the multiple versions of how it happened, and the quick disposal,etc....not so much, I think it was botched on that end!!

[ChadwickHenryWard]

50. Do you believe that all people are entitle to a trial?

Osama bin Laden was accused of a crime. One of the most important principles of the American system is that everyone is entitled to a trial regardless of what crime they are accused of. Bin Laden's extrajudicial execution runs afoul of the notion that everyone deserves equal treatment under the law.

[billh58]

56. Slight clarification:

Osama Bin Laden confessed to a horrendous crime, and bragged about it on a recorded video. OBL was an enemy combatant and a confessed international criminal, who was killed while resisting capture.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

57. That doesn't eliminate the need for a trial.

The presumption of innocence still applies, confession or no. The only thing that can end that presumption is due process. And since he was unarmed, outnumbered, and cornered, in what material way was he resisting his arrest? What could he conceivably have done to stop his arrest? Further, it has been admitted that the order was not to capture but to kill - he couldn't capture because no capture was attempted.

There is no such thing as an "enemy combatant" - you are either a civilian or a soldier. George Bush made up enemy combatants as a category of prisoner that had no legally protected rights whatsoever. When we start playing by George Bush's made up, bullshit rules, we're fucked. In the deepest possible way, we're fucked.

[marlakay]

54. 1000% agree! nt

[billh58]

55. +1000

The number of posts, or the length of time one has been here is representative of exactly nothing. I totally agree with your rational observation, which represents the thinking of an overwhelming majority of Middle American Democrats.

[Ramulux]

58. I disagree

We have no right to be conducting covert military operations in Pakistan. The people of Pakistan do not want us in their country and their government is incredibly corrupt and not at all representative of what the people want.

Osama Bin Ladin was an international criminal who is responsible for terrorist acts in many different countries all over the world. I don't understand why we had anything to do with taking him down and I dont understand why people seem to think that we can take our military into any country we want just because a criminal is there.

Our military had no right to kill Osama Bin Ladin. The people of Pakistan do not want us in their country and I dont understand why everyone on this site seems to have forgotten that.

We are not the world police. We do not have the right to conduct military operations in any country we want.