Yavin4
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 08:34 PM
Original message |
Lay Off Howard Dean. He's Dead Right About This Bill. |
|
Ever since the man came on the national scene in 2003, he has been dead right about EVERYTHING. He was pilloried in 2004 for his anti-war stance on Iraq. I remember his lone voice of dissent when he stated that the capturing of Saddam Huessein didn't make a difference, and he was attacked by Joe Lieberman. Guess what. He was dead right then, and he's right now.
Throwing millions of Americans onto the mercy of the giant helath insurance industry is nothing short of pure horror. This bill will bankrupt working class Americans, and it may spell the end of the Democratic party entirely. When Obama signs the Joe Lieberman/Max Baucus giveaway to big health insurance, then the Democrats will OWN ALL of the problems associated with buying health insurance from these jackals. Every rate increase. Every denial of coverage. Every higher deductible will become the full property of the Democratic party.
When Obama signs this bill, the historic FDR coalition which nutured and developed by successive Democratic presidents like Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, and Clinton will crumble forever. This bill violates a trust that the American working class has placed with the Democratic party for almost 100 years.
Howard Dean is right.
|
Justitia
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 08:39 PM
Response to Original message |
1. Amen on all counts. -eom |
dkf
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 08:42 PM
Response to Original message |
2. Holy cow. We will be pinned with every abusive action the insurance companies make |
|
Because we will have forced everyone to submit to this treatment. With no real cost reform it's only going to get worse. That really will be our doom.
|
Yavin4
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
3. When Families Get Their Rate Increases In The Mail |
|
They will blame the Democrats and Obama for it.
|
dkf
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
5. And we see how well the "it would have been worse" argument works. |
|
Edited on Thu Dec-17-09 08:54 PM by dkf
It's not working for unemployment and it won't work for health premiums.
|
FormerDittoHead
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Dec-18-09 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #3 |
41. ...and they will think how gov't can't do anything right.. It's a LOSE-LOSE. |
|
They will have to jump through hoops to get a subsidy, then jump through hoops to get accepted (when they have a choice) have a giant deductible THEN DENIAL OF COVERAGE.
And they'll say to themselves, "What a fucked up system this is, ANYTHING is better than this..."
And Sarah Palin will have the answer - a Republican majority in Congress.
|
truedelphi
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Dec-18-09 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #41 |
47. Oh and every step of the way,the middle incomed could end up facing penalties. |
|
Edited on Fri Dec-18-09 05:48 PM by truedelphi
The Federal Government now feels entitled to raise 166 Billion bucks worth of penalties from us between 2013 and 2019 in order to help offset the cost of paying for the subsidies.
|
OHdem10
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 08:45 PM
Response to Original message |
NJmaverick
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:00 PM
Response to Original message |
6. He wasn't too correct about how to run a national campaign |
|
and he looked a little out there when he campaigned for an Obama cabinet position and he has looked very petulant in terms of his comments on the health care bill.
President Clinton, President Obama and Paul Krugman got this one right, not Dean and McCain.
|
Forkboy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
7. You forgot to add that Lieberman and Baucus and Stupak got it right too! |
NJmaverick
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
8. Or every Republican in the Senate on your side |
Forkboy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
9. Like Palin supporting Obama's war? |
NJmaverick
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
10. Oh and I am thinking you get Palin on this one as well |
Forkboy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
13. Yet her and I disagree and you and her don't. |
|
Edited on Thu Dec-17-09 09:18 PM by Forkboy
|
NJmaverick
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
15. How do you disagree, you both want to kill the bill |
Forkboy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
19. How do you and her diagree, you both want to escalate the war. |
|
And provide a single link where I say I want to kill the bill. I'll wait.
|
NJmaverick
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
22. Are you saying you want the bill to pass? |
|
I'll wait for that answer first.
|
Forkboy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
25. I agree with Sanders that it can be saved, though it's a long shot. |
NJmaverick
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
26. So you don't want the current bill to pass, see I saved my time and effort |
|
you may like a seriously modified bill (more than can be expected) but that doesn't count in terms of killing the current bill.
|
Forkboy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
27. Once again, for comprehension, I agree with Sanders.... |
|
...that the bill should pass. Is that clear enough for you or do you need diagrams in crayon?
|
ClarkUSA
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
11. "Obama's war" = RNC/mediawhore talking point |
Forkboy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
12. At least you didn't accuse me of stalking you. |
ClarkUSA
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
18. Making as much sense as you usually do, I see. |
Forkboy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
20. Oh, I think you know what I'm talking about. |
ClarkUSA
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
NJmaverick
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
16. It's scary how many RNC talking points are now regularly making their way into DU |
|
Edited on Thu Dec-17-09 09:23 PM by NJmaverick
|
ClarkUSA
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
21. It's all the 24/7 Obama Outrage gang has. Funny how Dean was a "sellout" when he supported HCR. |
|
Edited on Thu Dec-17-09 09:24 PM by ClarkUSA
Now, all of a sudden, he's the Party's Messiah to the usual Outrage Club members.
|
Forkboy
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
Yavin4
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
17. In 2004, The Democrats Went Practical And Voted Kerry |
|
Instead of voting for the guy with steam and fire who may have won that election.
|
karynnj
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Dec-18-09 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
|
You mean the guy who whined that he didn't want to be a pin cushion? That when he faced the normal flack given the front runner. The fact is that you mistake red faced anger for real strength - something Kerry had far more of.
The fact is that in Dec 2003, Dean polled nearly 20 points behind Bush. In February, Kerry polled close to Bush and even beat him in the spring in some polls. The fact is that Dean never polled as well as GENERIC Democrat and Kerry polled better than generic Democrat. In addition, Kerry was exceptional in the debates and one thing that won him points was that he was completely on target on all issues and he was very Presidential, which means he controlled his anger.
|
roguevalley
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Dec-18-09 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
39. really. so a doctor cannot speak about healthcare bills and be right? |
|
A former governor who managed tight money for a state cannot be right about money? Really. Clinton can blow it out his butt. He hasn't been right on this issue yet. he actually wants this shit stain bill to pass.
|
RogueTrooper
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Dec-18-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
43. but he was pretty excellent when it came to running the dnc |
|
what did he say that was petulant? His comments seemed pretty reasonable to me.
|
Cha
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:19 PM
Response to Original message |
14. Dean, No Problem! My problem is |
|
with the assholes in the Senate.
|
Fire1
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:33 PM
Response to Original message |
28. Why? Cause YOU say so! I think not. n/t |
Yavin4
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
36. Bookmark Your Post And When You Get That Premium Bill In The Mail In 2013 |
|
then you will know what I mean.
|
Fire1
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #36 |
38. I don't get a premium bill. It's deducted automatically. |
Ildem09
(472 posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 09:39 PM
Response to Original message |
|
How long before the Cheerleaders throw Richard Trumpka, and Andy Stern Under the bus
|
Laelth
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message |
30. k&r for Howard Dean. He is right about this turd of a bill. n/t |
Phx_Dem
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 10:03 PM
Response to Original message |
31. Leave Howard aloooooooone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
|
He's a person tooooo.
:cry:
|
David Zephyr
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 10:18 PM
Response to Original message |
bigwillq
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 10:22 PM
Response to Original message |
33. No one should lay off any politician (or former one) |
|
if they don't agree with them. If you open your mouth on national television or in print, then you need to be able to handle the consequences of your actions. Some will agree and some won't. Big Dean fan, btw, and I agree with Dean. But I don't support someone telling someone else to "lay off" someone.
|
flamingdem
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 10:29 PM
Response to Original message |
34. Being right gets you nowhere politically nt |
lib2DaBone
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 10:32 PM
Response to Original message |
35. I like Dean.. he is 100% On-Target..... |
|
.. that's why both Democorps AND Republicorps will swift boat him and get him out of the picture.
Can't have any "truth" accidentally reach the people....
|
Capn Sunshine
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Thu Dec-17-09 10:34 PM
Response to Original message |
37. I love Howard Dean. I worked with Howard Dean for several years |
|
He's always right, although Howard does not deal in nuance. Check him out today, he's making more sense on this.
It's not killable, but if we don't at least extend medicare to 50 it will cause future grief, just like he says.
I guess what I'm saying is I have faith theat the Senate will work this out beyond its present form, and that alone is reason not to get on a Killwagon.
|
Zodiak
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Dec-18-09 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #37 |
42. But remember, the killwagon is the only way to force people back to the table |
|
It has a purpose.
BTW....I agree that we can save this bill, but not if they do not fear us. Kill the bill, or bring us back to the table to remove the individual mandate.
|
JNelson6563
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Dec-18-09 08:47 AM
Response to Original message |
40. Yes, Howard Dean is right. |
Vidar
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Dec-18-09 01:22 PM
Response to Original message |
Odin2005
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Dec-18-09 04:08 PM
Response to Original message |
45. The Mandate is FASCISM! |
|
The government has no right to FORCE me to buy something from a corporation!
|
Little Star
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Dec-18-09 04:13 PM
Response to Original message |
ananda
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Dec-18-09 05:49 PM
Response to Original message |
BrklynLiberal
(1000+ posts)
Send PM |
Profile |
Ignore
|
Fri Dec-18-09 05:58 PM
Response to Original message |
50. You are correct that Howard Dean is right. |
DU
AdBot (1000+ posts) |
Wed May 08th 2024, 12:55 PM
Response to Original message |