Al Franken: "The deal DOES protect Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid beneficiaries"

[UrbScotty]

(Emphasis mine.)

I see a lot of claims being made about the deal, including claims that the deal includes cuts to Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid.

But are these claims true?

Is Al Franken wrong? Or are Obama's harshest so-called 'progressive' critics wrong?

If Franken is wrong, then "where's the beef," as they say? Where in the deal, specifically, are these cuts?

I have yet to see ANY concrete evidence that Obama wants to cut ANY of those programs.

Source for Franken quote

[Warren Stupidity]

1. I see The Borg has assimilated another.

That is a carefully constructed statement. "beneficiaries" are people currently receiving benefits. The statement says nothing about future beneficiaries. Also current beneficiaries are protected only in the trigger clause. Any actual agreement coming out of the new Legislature Lite has no restrictions on it, as far as I know.

[midnight]

3. The trigger on these contracts are becoming as dangerous as a trigger on a gun...

[Divernan]

10. Exactly. Only current beneficiaries - not medical providers, not future benficiaries.

And "protect" is a very relative and elastic term. It's Obama-speak: Well we could have raised the age to 75, but we only raised it to 70. We protected you. Or we could have eliminated COLAs entirely, but we just "adjusted" the formula so that it will be a cold day in hell before you ever see another COLA, i.e., any nominal COLA increase will be swallowed up by the annual increase in Medicare premiums. We "protected" the COLA.

And reducing the payments to medical providers will drive the best of them, who can rely on non-medicare/medicaid patients, to refuse to participate in these programs. As it is, in my urban area, there is a four month wait for an initial appointment with many board certified specialists.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

13. Exactly. People need to be more aware of the political parsing of words ie:

"beneficiaries".

And EVERYTHING I've seen puts EVERYTHING on the table for any actual agreement coming out of this "committee" - and that includes "entitlements" (another intereSTINK choice of words from these smarmy politicians). SS and Medicare are NOT protected. Rather, they are targeted. The biggest bullseye for cuts is smack-dab in the middle of these programs.

[Dokkie]

14. Ezactly

IF I remembered correctly, Paul Ryan's kill SS bill also protected CURRENT beneficiaries. The problem lies with the future beneficiaries, would be program still be there when they reach retirement age. Lets face it, Al Franken has become just another apologist for the WH. I would like to see what people like Kucinich and Sanders think about the deal before I change my mind about the deal.

[midnight]

2. Let the critics be wrong and let Al be right....thank you...

[swilton]

43. Franken also said this in the same speech

“As a result, the deal that has been struck is not balanced, as I would have preferred. It does achieve the laudable goal of reducing the deficit, but does so with only cuts, even though a significant majority of Americans, including a majority of Republicans, favor closing loopholes for corporations and tax increases on the wealthiest Americans to make sure everyone is paying their fair share.

[newfie11]

4. I wonder what it does for those not yet on SS/medicare/medicadent

[eShirl]

7. Medicadent? Never heard of it. n/t

[doc03]

11. That's the new dental program for seniors I believe n/t

[eShirl]

15. LINK??? or it doesn't exist,because I can't find it anywhere. n/t

[doc03]

17. I guess I should have added this

:hide: :sarcasm:

[eShirl]

19. yes.

[newfie11]

27. lol

That's what happens when 4 Newfoundland dogs want out and I forget to check what I typed.

[eridani]

33. Not diddlysquat. However, you have some raging grannies and grandpas

--who are trying to look out for you while you're focused on paying for school and raising kids.

[leveymg]

5. I really resent disinformation and misleading statements. Unrec.

Franken just lost a lot of respect.

"Prepare to be assimilated." Looks like Al's fitting right in.

[bowens43]

6. for now.....

but no thanks to Obama , he was perfectly willing to put Medicare and social security on the chopping block.

[polmaven]

31. I assume you know that

because you were there in the room when he said so, right?

[Kahuna]

8. Al Franken is smart and deliberate. I will take HIS word for it. nt

[Greybnk48]

24. I trust Al Franken before anyone else in DC.

If he says it's so, it's so. He's not, and never will be a sellout.

[Dawgs]

9. Would you consider raising the Medicare age by 2 years a cut?

Because there IS concrete evidence that the Obama administration OFFERED this to Boehner. Unless you think Obama's own spokesman isn't a credible source.

[JoePhilly]

12. And yet ... it didn't happen ....

hummm ... Obama is so hell-bent on cutting / slashing / and dismantling Social Security ... and yet, he just can't get it done!!!

Here is how a real negotiation goes.

Party A: Will you trade me X?

Party B: What would you give me for X?

Party A: I'd give you Y.

Party B: Y, that's all? No.

Party A: Ok, how about Y and Z. That's a good deal.

Party B: Y and Z ... humm ... no, not nearly enough for X.

Party A: Ok, well that's all I'm willing to give you for X.

Party B: Ok, well, then I'm not giving you X.

And your reaction: OMG, Party B just tried to give away X. That Bastard.

[Dawgs]

16. Thanks to the Republicans. n/t

[JoePhilly]

18. Yea, Republicans defended SS from Obama ...

:rofl:

[MilesColtrane]

36. Boehner and Cantor are the new FDR and LBJ!

[vaberella]

21. Vote for Bachmann or one of the Repubs, b/c for you they care more about social programs. n/t

[elleng]

28. THANKS, JoeP, for explaining the ways of the world!

:hi:

Curious minds NEED to know!

[vaberella]

20. DU says it doesn't and you are obviously not a progressive Franken. n/t

[former9thward]

22. He is using the word "beneficiaries"

Which means those currently on it. He does not say it will be protected for those who are not on it yet. Very careful choice of words.

[Harmony Blue]

25. Pretty much

they are trying to commit the theft in the open.

[boppers]

35. Well, that's possibly a bit of spin, too.

Google provides this:
"A person who derives advantage from something, esp. a trust, will, or life insurance policy"

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=beneficiaries#hl=en&safe=off&q=beneficiary&tbs=dfn:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=eO5JTvHOBuTUiAKg94izBw&ved=0CCMQkQ4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.&fp=c399d5fd337e1303&biw=994&bih=606

"He does not say it will be protected for those who are not on it yet."

Does this then, mean:
a) People who have never worked and are thus not listed in the SS books as beneficiaries yet?
b) People who are already designated beneficiaries, but do not yet derive advantage in terms of payments?
c) ?

edit: punct.

[former9thward]

37. We should not have to go to a dictionary y to parse words

Make it clear what you saying. Is it that difficult?

[boppers]

38. Yes, it it that difficult.

Words mean different things to different people, and the problem is aggravated by sound-byte culture.

[JoePhilly]

23. Why does AL hate Liberals???

[indepat]

26. Geebus, where has Franken been during the blitz to have not seen or heard the bombs?

What the hell is going to be cut if not the big three? The MIC? :shrug: :patriot:

[shellgame26]

29. but but but..we wanted him to primary Obama

Now we have to throw him under the bus.

[polmaven]

30. Watch out, Al...

That bus is speeding toward you! :hide:

[Jakes Progress]

32. Al's wrong.

I like him a lot. I think he is one of the very few good guys in Washington.

But he is wrong. First is his use of the weasel word "beneficiaries". It may the word that let him eat a little of his conscience and vote for the bill. But there is discussion up thread that takes on what this means.

But even there, he is wrong. There is only rhetoric and political promises (worth less than an Enron gift card) that deal with this. There is no language in the bill that forbids SS and Medicare and Medicaid from being cut to achieve budgetary goals. Just like there is no language to guarantee that the bush tax cuts will expire. It's all still open to play.

I can't prove a negative without posting the whole bill. Anyone who disagrees can prove me wrong with the language in the bill that absolutely says that SS and Medicare and Medicaid will not be limited or cut. Actually, it is barely mentioned, and the few lines that deal with it are packed with some of the densest political weasel words possible.

It's okay if Al was wrong. He's still a good guy.

[scheming daemons]

34. funny... certain prominent posters have nothing to say in this thread

[Warren Stupidity]

39. funny...the empty rhetoric from Al was explained in response 1

the OP is total fail.

[UrbScotty]

40. Well, the truth hurts sometimes! (nt)

[JI7]

44. they will pop up in other threads calling for FRanken to Primary Obama

shows how uninformed many of the critics are.

but then again i think many just enjoy attacking .

[Vattel]

41. You haven't been paying attention

if you haven't seen concrete evidence that Obama wants to cut these programs. As for Franken, what he says is true. The deal doesn't require any cuts to SS or Medicare benefits. It doesn't require that there not be such cuts either.

[swilton]

42. Franken also said this in the same speech

“As a result, the deal that has been struck is not balanced, as I would have preferred. It does achieve the laudable goal of reducing the deficit, but does so with only cuts, even though a significant majority of Americans, including a majority of Republicans, favor closing loopholes for corporations and tax increases on the wealthiest Americans to make sure everyone is paying their fair share.