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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 09:23 AM
Original message
the president is in a box.
like everyone else, i would like barack obama to kick ass and take names. i was pissed off for a solid year when he arrived in the senate and did not join the push to investigate ohio. and i agree that he doesn't have a stiff spine. a lobbyist i know that knew him in springfield said that she always tried to be the last one to talk to him, or at least made sure to touch base with him at the last possible moment before a vote, just to make sure that he hadn't changed his mind. it is who he is.

BUT i also think there is a less than zero chance that he would be where he is if he was that sort of person. no angry black men need apply to be the first black president. or the only black senator for that matter. this is not a case of his keeping his anger under control so that he can get elected. other way around.

that does not mean that he cannot or is not accomplishing what can be accomplished. the number of chairs on each side of the aisle don't really mean that much. even when he had the numbers, he certainly didn't have the loyalty and good will of all those on the blue side. we all know that.
and we know that the government in toto does not even control big chunks of what we think they are in control of. this goes quadruple for the pentagon. did george bush get a lot done? no. it just looked that way. the people who put him there got a lot done. bush left. those people are all still where they were. again, that goes quadruple for the pentagon.

he needs us to push for public opinion. he needs us to have his back. but calling for him to be something that he is not is not only futile but divisive. (not us here, us everywhere.) it takes the focus off the problems and the obstacles and puts it on the unchangeable.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. there's too much of this, imo
yes, it's always good to give leaders the benefit of the doubt, to see things from their point of view, to show sympathy, and empathy.

But with Obama it's endless. It's as if everything is being done to him. That's not correct. He has enormous power as president of the United States.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. i'm not asking for the benefit of the doubt or sympathy
i am wishing that people would not agitate for something that is not going to happen- "grow a spine" and focus instead on agitating to form public opinion on issues, and target those who are perpetrating the wrongs. ie-demonstrating in front of the oil company's marble edifices instead of the white house.

it's' not about right, it's about effective.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. I don't think you understand how deep
racial hatred can be. Here is some of the story of Harold Washington, first black mayor of Chicago. Although this is 30 years later, the Presidency is the prize and we can see how far we haven't come. I worked in news during this time and remember this very clearly. Here's wiki's page on Harold Washington.

wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Washington
Mayor of Chicago (1983–1987) This section does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (March 2008)


Harold Washington speaking at the commissioning of USS Chicago (SSN-721) in 1986.

In the February 22, 1983, Democratic mayoral primary, community organizers registered more than 100,000 new African American voters, while the white vote was split between the incumbent mayor Jane Byrne and future mayor Richard M. Daley, son of the late Mayor Richard J. Daley. Washington won with 37% of the vote, versus 33% for Byrne and 30% for Daley.

Although winning the Democratic primary is normally tantamount to election in heavily Democratic Chicago, after his primary victory Washington found that his Republican opponent, former state legislator Bernard Epton (earlier considered a nominal stand-in), was supported by many white Democrats and ward organizations, including the chairman of the Cook County Democratic Party, Alderman Edward "Fast Eddie" Vrdolyak.<32> Epton's campaign referred to, among other things, Washington's conviction for failure to file income tax returns. (He had paid the taxes, but had not filed a return.) However, Washington appealed to his constituency in his mayoral political campaign, and stressed such things as reforming the Chicago patronage system and the need for a jobs program in a tight economy. In the April 12, 1983, mayoral general election, Washington defeated Epton by 3.7%, 51.7% to 48.0%, to become mayor of Chicago. Washington was sworn in as mayor on April 29, 1983, and resigned his Congressional seat the following day.

During his tenure as mayor, Washington lived at the Hampton House apartments in the Hyde Park neighborhood of Chicago. Among the changes he made to the city's government was creating its first environmental-affairs department under the management of longtime Great Lakes environmentalist Lee Botts.

Washington's first term in office was characterized by ugly, racially polarized battles dubbed "Council Wars", referring to the then-recent Star Wars films. A 29–21 City Council majority refused to enact Washington's reform legislation and prevented him from appointing reform nominees to boards and commissions. Other first-term items include overall city population loss, increased crime, and a massive decrease in ridership on the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA). This helped earn the city the nickname "Beirut on the Lake", and many people wondered if Chicago would ever recover or face the more permanent declines of other cities in the U.S. Midwest.

The twenty-nine, also known as the Vrdolyak Twenty-nine, was led by "the Eddies": Alderman Ed Vrdolyak, Finance Chair Edward Burke and Parks Commissioner Edmund Kelly. The Eddies were supported by the younger Daley (now State's Attorney), U.S. Congressmen Dan Rostenkowski and William Lipinski, and other powerful white Democrats.

During one of the first Council meetings, Harold Washington was unable to get his appointments approved. Harold Washington and the twenty-one ward representatives that supported him, walked out of the meeting after a quorum had been established. Vrdolyak and the other twenty-eight were able to appoint all of the boards and chairs. Later lawsuits submitted by Harold Washington and others were dismissed because it was determined that the appointments were legally made.

Washington ruled by veto. The twenty-nine could not get the thirtieth vote they needed to override Washington's veto; African American, Latino and white liberal aldermen supported Washington despite pressure from the Eddies. Meanwhile, in the courts, Washington kept the pressure on to reverse the redistricting of City Council wards that white Democrats had pushed through during the Byrne years. When special elections were ordered in 1986, victorious Washington-backed candidates gave him a 24–26 split council. Six weeks later when Luis Gutiérrez won the run-off election in the 26th ward Washington had the 25-25 split he needed. His vote as chairman of the City Council enabled him to break the deadlock and enact his programs.

Washington defeated former mayor Jane Byrne in the February 24, 1987, Democratic mayoral primary by 7.2%, 53.5% to 46.3%, and in the April 7, 1987, mayoral general election defeated Vrdolyak (Illinois Solidarity Party) by 11.8%, 53.8% to 42.8%, with Northwestern University business professor Donald Haider (Republican) getting 4.3%, to win reelection to a second term as mayor. Cook County Assessor Thomas Hynes (Chicago First Party), a Daley ally, dropped out of the race 36 hours before the mayoral general election. During Washington's short second term, the Eddies fell from power: Vrdolyak became a Republican, Kelly was removed from his powerful parks post, and Burke lost his power as finance chair.

Death

On November 25, 1987, at 11:00 a.m., Chicago Fire Department paramedics were called to City Hall. Washington's press secretary, Alton Miller, had been discussing school board issues with the mayor when Washington suddenly slumped over on his desk, falling unconscious. After failing to revive Washington in his office, paramedics rushed him to Northwestern Memorial Hospital. Further resuscitation attempts failed, and Washington was pronounced dead at 1:36 p.m.<33> At Daley Plaza, Richard Keen, project director for the Westside Habitat for Humanity, announced Washington's official time of death to a separate gathering of Chicagoans. Initial reactions to the pronouncement of his death were of shock and sadness, as many Blacks believed that Washington was the only top Chicago official who would address their concerns.<34>

Thousands of Chicagoans attended his wake in the lobby of City Hall between November 27 and November 29, 1987.<35> On November 30, Rev. B. Herbert Martin officiated Washington's "upbeat, hard-clapping funeral service" in Christ Universal Temple at 119th Street and Ashland Avenue in Chicago. After the service, Washington was buried in Oak Woods Cemetery on the South Side of Chicago.<36>

Immediately after Washington's death, rumors about how Washington died began to surface. On January 6, 1988, Dr. Antonio Senat, Washington's personal physician, denied "unfounded speculations" that Washington had cocaine in his system at the time of his death, or that foul play was involved. Cook County Medical Examiner Robert J. Stein performed an autopsy on Washington and concluded that Washington had died of a heart attack. Washington had weighed 284 pounds (129 kg), and suffered from hypertension, high cholesterol levels, and an enlarged heart.<37> On June 20, 1988, Alton Miller again indicated that drug reports on Washington had come back negative, and that Washington had not been poisoned prior to his death. Dr. Stein stated that the only drug in Washington's system had been lidocaine, which is used to stabilize the heart after a heart attack takes place. The drug was given to Washington either by paramedics, or by doctors at Northwestern Memorial Hospital.<38>

In protest of Washington's perceived "deification" by the city and citizens of Chicago, Art Institute of Chicago student David Nelson painted Mirth & Girth, a caricature that depicted Washington wearing women's lingerie and holding a pencil.<39> The painting kicked off a First Amendment and civil rights controversy between Art Institute students and Black aldermen. Nelson and the ACLU eventually split a US$95,000 (1994, US$138,000 in 2008) settlement from the city.<40>

Coincidentally, Bernie Epton, Washington's opponent in the racially charged 1983 general election, would follow him in death 18 days later, on December 13, 1987.

Legacy
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. barack reminded me of harold from the beginning.
and as a chicagoan and one of harold's biggest fans, i concur with every word of your post.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. wow, he doesn't remind me of Washington at all
as another Chicagoan.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. But isn't that already baked in the cake, then?
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. that's not really what i am talking about.
and honestly, i don't see him as moving to the center so much as acting in the center. if that makes any sense. and in the end, i think that is what government does.
not succeeding in implementing the policies that he believes in and not believing in them are not the same.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Not implementing them is a direct result of not speaking out strongly and consistently about them.
So are lower poll numbers and much much more. That's exactly what you're talking about.

NGU.

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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. i think that is neither here nor there.
i don't happen to agree with you. he hasn't spoken forcefully as he doesn't see them as possible. one thing he never does, afaik, is fight a battle that he cannot win.

so where do we go from there? what would happen if we turned our fire at the enemy instead of the "coward" on our own front line? (i would never call him that, but for the sake of argument...)
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Hart2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. A box? Obama couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag!
The man is only a motivational speaker.

He is not a fighter.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. i think that i pretty much stipulated that.
so, where do we go from there is the question on the floor.
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Hart2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Abraham Lincoln had a general, George McClellan, who was afraid to fight battles.
General McClellan was a meticulous organizer who helped to build the Union Army, but he was an ineffective battle commander who, after losing a few battles, preferred to avoid a fight. Lincoln became so exasperated with McClellan that he said, "If General McClellan does not want to use the army, I would like to borrow it for a time."

In time he promoted U.S. Grant to lead the Union Army. Grant was an excellent battlefield commander who slowly and steadily won the war for the Union.

The point is, if the present President won't fight for us, we need to find one who will.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. well
this is a discussion about what we should be doing with the president we have.
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Hart2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. We could give him the next vacancy on the U.S. Supreme Court.
Only President Taft later served on SCOTUS. I think he would be more comfortable there, and he would make a great counterpoint to Clarence "Uncle" Thomas.

Then we could all be happy.
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Excellent, Hart 2008!
Edited on Fri Sep-02-11 12:31 PM by Carolina
But BHO is no McClellan. I don't even think much of him as an organizer. His campaign strategy (and a well organized campaign it was) was derived from Howard Dean's (use of the internet, meet-ups, pursuit of all 50 states -- not simply the traditionally Democratic leaning ones as espoused by the DLC)! When he never credited Howard Dean for his victory in any way, I became suspicious. Then came his appointments (Duncan, Geithner, Summers...) and the repeated capitulation to the repukes...

At this point, I view this POTUS as someone who could* once deliver a speech. Nothing more.

*could because now the emptiness of his words -- however well articulated -- makes them BLATHER.

WE NEED A FIGHTER
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. if you don't mind
might we please discuss the topic?
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Carolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. if you don't mind,
I wasn't talking to you!
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
5. He built the box n/t
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. he was born in the box.
both as a black boy in america, and just as who he is.
but he couldn't break out of it if he wanted to. which he doesn't. it is who he is.
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alltherage Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
18. Obama Put Himself In A Box, And He's Ensuring A Republican Victory In 2012
The Right will easily get the White House in 2012 if he keeps going down this road, but c'mon, we've been saying this since 2009. Are we going to still be screaming this on October 31, 2012? He did this to himself. The Right could easily control the House, Senate, and White House come 2013. Obama blew it. It truly is beyond too late to start acting like a Democrat now. That's like telling George Bush that invading Iraq might not be such a good idea today. At this juncture, the Dems ought to start prepping a candidate to run in 2016 against President Perry.
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
19. So what. Do you think the poor and unemployed are not
in a box? Maybe he should try our box out for size. The pukes put us in that box and he isn't trying to get us out, he has kept those people on. That's his screw up. If he isn't up for the job he should just give it up. I don't want an "angry black man" I want a Democratic President willing to fight for what we need. We had his back when we pushed for the public opinion. We got smacked down. I'm not calling for him to be something that he is not, I'm calling for him to be what he said he was. Anything else is bullshit.
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
20. Lovingly crafted by his own hands.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
21. A natural leader would not need anyone to push them to do the right thing
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. a natural born leader
does not march in one man parades.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. ???
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Or the wrong thing
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
27. He DOES get pushed for things
and he pushes BACK AGAINST THEM
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