Geronimo was mission succesful call sign...

[DFab420]

Jackpot was Osama bin Ladens callsign


no more untruths about this one ok?

[FSogol]

1. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE... I mean, I agree. K & R

[Ian David]

2. That is good to know. Do you have a link for that? n/t

[DFab420]

5. Yessum

"Meanwhile, details are coming out about just what happened during the raid to nab Bin Laden -- who was code named "Jackpot" in the operation."




http://www.wbtv.com/story/14563500/now-banned-interrogation-techniques-helped-lead-to-bin-ladens-capture

[Better Believe It]

50. Your news source is disputed by other news sites. You're making a claim without credible proof

"Bin Laden's code name during the operation was known as "Jackpot," some news sites reported"

And other news sites report that "Geronimo" was the code name for Osama in this operation.

Do you speak for Obama? Unless you do, your comments don't carry as much weight on this matter as the White House or Pentagon and they won't talk!

I haven't read any statement by the Obama administration denying they used the code name "Geronimo" for either the operation or Osama bin Laden.

On the contrary.

The White House has so far refused to event comment in response to the Native American protests!

"The White House referred questions on the matter to the U.S. Defense Department, which said no disrespect was meant to Native Americans.

The department wouldn't elaborate on the use of "Geronimo," but said code names typically are chosen randomly so that those working on a mission can communicate without divulging any information to adversaries."

Simply making a claim, as you have, isn't adequate.

You must prove it.

[itsrobert]

3. Indian casinos are

asking for an apology.

[JoePhilly]

4. Jackpot!!

[KittyWampus]

17. weird, same ironic thought came to me.

[fishwax]

6. I haven't seen a conclusive link about that

I've seen news stories over the last several days that suggest it was the codename for OBL.

I've seen news stories over the last several days that suggest it was the codename for the mission.

I've seen one news story that suggests it was the mission successful call sign.

Incidentally, the link that you provide in post 4 supports the second statement, not the third, which is what you claimed in the OP. Clearly, there is confusion over this issue, and I haven't seen a definitive comment from anyone official.

[DFab420]

11. Here's another

http://video.tvguide.com/msnbc+tv/msnbc+tv--3a+Behind+code+words+'Geronimo'+and+'Jackpot'/7199355


If you get past them being dumb about hair in the first couple of minutes Savannah Guthrie breaks it down.

[fishwax]

15. so that offers a different explanation than the link you posted in #5

Geronimo is the code name for success: http://video.tvguide.com/msnbc+tv/msnbc+tv--3a+Behind+code+words+%5C%27Geronimo%5C%27+and+%5C%27Jackpot%5C%27/7199355

Geronimo is the code name for the mission itself: http://www.wbtv.com/story/14563500/now-banned-interrogation-techniques-helped-lead-to-bin-ladens-capture

Why are you spreading untruths? ;)

Savannah Guthrie, of course, is reporting what I also heard on another NBC report (posted by Robb yesterday). Still, there are other reporters who continue with the other two interpretations. NBC may well be right, but it's not really a consensus (to say nothing of anything official). Jackpot, as Savannah Guthrie says in your most recent link, is the generic codename for any high profile target. Does that mean that OBL didn't have a codename of his own? I find that odd.

Incidentally, if Geronimo is the codename for success, it leaves open the question of what was the codename for the mission? I've heard "Neptune's Spear," but I've only seen that in a couple of news reports, and it doesn't turn up more than a handful of links on Google News. But if it is the case that Geronimo meant success, we should hear more about the mission name in the hours/days to come.

[DFab420]

29. Haha I think mission name was "Operation: Get that M-fer"

:rofl:

[guitar man]

7. Oh no, not Jackpot

Trump will be bellowing for an apology to his casinos any minute now :silly:

[liberal N proud]

8. Thank you

As I see it, the use of heritage names should be seen as a sign of honor and not derogatory. If I wanted to degrade someone, why would I use their names on places, buildings, ships and other items. We use names of great people, this should be seen as nothing different. The Native Americans ancestors were a noble people, they should be proud their names are adopted. Look what we do with former Presidents, streets, schools, libraries and ships are all named after them because we hold them in honor.

Sometimes I wonder if some of this outrage is fabricated to incite people. Why can't we be friends.

[fishwax]

12. are you saying you don't understand why someone might be offended at an iconic figure

being used as the codename for the most reviled man in the world? Do you think codenaming OBL "King George III" would go over well with the Brits? (And he doesn't have the same emotional and historical resonance for the Brits that Geronimo does for many Natives.) Or why not "George Washington," if the intent is to honor someone?

Now, there is certainly confusion over what exactly "Geronimo" referred to. And with most of what I've read (and with every Native American that I've discussed this with personally), it makes a big difference how it was used, and as a codename for victory or the mission wouldn't be offensive. (Of course, that may not be true for all concerned.)

"Sometimes I wonder if some of this outrage is fabricated to incite people. Why can't we be friends."

Being friends means not simply dismissing people's concerns out of hand. The suggestion that Geronimo was not an appropriate code name was met with a fairly large amount of ridicule (there were cries of "poutrage," "whiners," and "over-sensitive" even here on DU; the reaction was even worse elsewhere). That's not how friends react.

[liberal N proud]

14. Everything I read it was codename for the mission

Not the monster.

[fishwax]

19. all due respect, but your OP from yesterday suggests otherwise

when you suggest that they are silly to object to using the codename for the monster: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1034966

I think the difference is pretty important, personally. The interpretation I am most likely to believe at the moment is that it was the codename for a successful mission. But in the first few days of the week there were dozens of articles suggesting that it was the codename for OBL, and I can understand why that would rub people the wrong way.

[KittyWampus]

18. It wasn't used for bin Laden.

[fishwax]

20. I acknowledged that argument in my post

[KittyWampus]

33. Then you have no argument.

[fishwax]

38. perhaps you should examine the subthread more closely

[Obamanaut]

25. A big difference is 'George' was the king's real name. The real name of the

iconic figure causing all this pearl clutching and gasping was not 'Geronimo', that name being an alias, an 'aka', in today's world it would be a screen name.

[fishwax]

40. actually, Geronimo was the name he was known by among both friends and enemies (and the public)

:shrug:

[Obamanaut]

46. delete dupe

[Obamanaut]

47. Actually, it remains not his real name, the name he was given as a baby, and

it is in fact not an uncommon surname. And there are several variation of the name.

Additionally, it is derived from Italian and Greek, and this has it's roots much prior to him using it as an 'aka' (also known as)

[fishwax]

48. lol -- so you get to decide what his "real" name is, instead of him, his friends and family, etc.

:rofl:

Whatever.

[Obamanaut]

52. No. It is a historical fact. Have you tried a simple search? DU has that feature.

There are multitudes of articles on his real name, given at birth by his parents, and how he came to be known by the alias. But you probably don't want accuracy to cloud your issue.

Go up to the top of the page and click on the 'search' icon. You can do it.

Whatever right back atcha.

[fishwax]

53. But Geronimo is the name he was known as by everyone, including his own people

"Go up to the top of the page and click on the 'search' icon. You can do it."

Yeah, I could do that, and it would turn up several posts of you making that claim. What good would that do?

[Obamanaut]

54. When you go to the search icon, there will be two choices - web, and

DU. Go to the web choice. There is life other than democratic underground, you know. And a smattering of information. As a matter of fact, here's a tidbit

http://jodybresch.com/geronimofamily.htm

And the heading on the page reads: “GERONIMO FAMILY WEB SITE “


<snip> Geronimo was born in June of 1829 near the headwater of the Gila River near the present-day city of Clifton, Arizona. His birth name was Goyakla which means to yawn. He was born into the Bedonkohe band of Apache. His grandfather, Mahko, was an Apache chief, a peace-loving man. Geronimo's father was Taklishim, and his mother was Juana


<snip> Geronimo's grief became a life-long hatred of Mexicans. His numerous raids into Mexico became the stories that legends are made of. It was in one such battle, truthfully, nobody quite knows why, that Geronimo's valor, villany, and voracity were so fierce against the Mexican soldiers that they were heard shouting something all who heard it thought was 'Geronimo.' There has been plenty of speculation since what the Mexicans meant, and only one idea seems to have a lot of merit. The Mexicans revered a Saint named Jerome who was a doctor and priest. General thought is that they might have been pleading to Saint Jerome for his help in the heat of the battle. <more at link>

The truth will set you free, if you take the time to look for it. Or, just fall in line with the 'outrage mongers.' There are plenty of them.

[fishwax]

55. that doesn't tell me anything I didn't already know

It's like objecting to someone calling the man formerly known as Cassius Clay by the name Muhammad Ali. Or objecting if someone were to say that our 38th President was Gerald Ford. After all, those aren't the names they were born with.

Geronimo is the name that the man went by for most of his life. It was attached to him in battle, and so had a special significance in his community. It is how he referred to himself and how everyone else referred to him. It is how Native Americans refer to him today. Your dismissal of that as "a screen name" strikes me as patronizing and insulting, but who am I to say.

"The truth will set you free, if you take the time to look for it. Or, just fall in line with the 'outrage mongers.' There are plenty of them."

There seems to me to be a lot more outrage coming from people who are up in arms that anyone would object to the name being used. And simply pointing out that it's not a good code name for OBL hardly amounts to outrage. (Note: the previous statement remains true whether or not that actually was his code name.)

[Brickbat]

22. If American Indians say they're not honored by the use of the name "Geronimo," is it still an honor?

[seabeyond]

26. it is more of a "good to know" than an "i am sorry". this was a name used for a mission

to do something courageous. good to know they dont like that name associated with it. but certainly not insulting.

[tekisui]

9. So? It still leads to this kind of thing:

India Rules Out 'Geronimo'-Style Strikes, Will 'Engage' Pakistan

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/asia/India-Rules-Out-Geronimo-Style-Strikes-Will-Engage-Pakistan-121261204.html

[Robb]

10. Inaccurate media reports lead to more inaccurate media reports?

I'm shocked. Next you'll be telling us the media's slant influences public opinion.

[tekisui]

23. The name Geronimo has been connected with OBL and the operation.

Inaccurate or not, the choice of this code name has upset some and of all the names they could have used was probably not the wisest. That is the long and short of it.

[seabeyond]

27. because really, they do this awesome mission successfully and they should have considered

AHEAD of time that the media might represent somthing incorrectly and du would blame obama for it

[tekisui]

30. Yes, they should be aware of Ameican politics. They should have

been smarter than that. I am not offended, but I understand how some Native Americans are.

They really should have considered that. They chose the name, they could have chosen anything.

[seabeyond]

31. could it be that the native american offended because people are telling them codename for OBL

and not the truth?

so, instead of keeping where it should be the error, one blames obama for not seeing it ahead of time? absurd. simply ridiculous. BUT i would suggest u.s. NEVER use the name again, even though for them it was an honoring/respect thing which i absolutely see.

[tekisui]

34. It wasn't honoring him.

I also think you are implying that those Native Americans who are offended are too stupid to understand. I disagree. Even with full knowledge that it is the name of the operation, it is not honoring and could still be offensive.

[seabeyond]

35. you and i dont see it the same. i think that most people see him as something special

and i think they have always used it in the military to define success.

btw.... incorrect info is not calling someone stupid. it is saying, they were fed the wrong info. as people continue to do on du with this subject

[bobbolink]

39. Maybe you have missed the articles posted where Indians are protesting the "special" use of this

name?

[Robb]

42. And you missed where some are pleased with it.

The chairman of Oklahoma's Apache Tribe -- who represents more than 2,000 of his people -- didn't get as much ink as his counterpart in Fort Sill, who represents around 600.

But, http://www.wctrib.com/event/article/id/81165/">according to Maynahonah:

...(Maynahonah) doesn’t believe the code name was meant to be derogatory. He pointed to the name’s use as a paratrooper war cry and to the fleets of military aircraft named after Indian tribes, including the Apache helicopter.

“It’s symbolic to me of the Army at the time trying to capture Geronimo,” he said of the code name. “They had a heck of time because he used to slip back across the Mexican border. This bin Laden has been slipping from us for 10 years.”

Amazingly, the "liberal media" is running with the "many in Indian Country say" crap. What a surprise. ;)

[bobbolink]

43. And there are blacks who insist that the "N" word isn't insulting.

There are always those who take a different view.

I can't understand for the life of me what has happened to the sensitivity of the 60s and 70s.

I can't understand what it costs to say "We were wrong. We hear you and thank you for expressing this, and will now do it differently."

I guess stubbornness and insensitivity will get more votes.

[Robb]

44. Not everyone sees the world as you do.

[bobbolink]

45. That is obvious. We have, indeed, all gone to the right.

I don't see that as a good thing, but most do.

[riverwalker]

13. and the call sign for mission FAILURE was...

"G.W.Bush"

[deacon]

16. lol!!!

[bobbolink]

21. It. Is. Offensive. To. Native. Americans.

[Obamanaut]

24. It is amazing the things that get people to clutch their pearls. nt

[seabeyond]

28. it is amazing the things that get people to use the term "clutch their pearls" nt

[Brickbat]

32. It's amazing that "hey, that hurts our feelings, how about a little consideration next time?" is

described as "clutching pearls."

[bobbolink]

37. Meanwhile, in other news, RWers and teabaggers are decrying the hearings on the use of this term as

"destraction".

Go figure.

"This is What Congress Does Instead of Fixing the Budget Problem "

A congressional oversight hearing originally scheduled to discuss, among other things, how indigenous-themed sports mascots have negatively influenced the perception of Native Americans, will now also address the linking of the name Geronimo to Osama bin Laden.
(snip)
The Senate Indian Affairs committee, chaired by Sen. Daniel Akaka (D-HI), will host the hearing titled "Stolen Identities: The Impact of Racist Stereotypes on Indigenous People," which will be webcast live at 2:15 p.m. ET.


Don't want to miss that.

Just a thought - the White House said they would release photos of bin Laden and then they reneged. Does that make them Indian givers? Is "renege" racist? I need some help from Congress.

THAT's being in "good company" :(

http://holycoast.blogspot.com/2011/05/this-is-what-congress-does-instead-of.html

[RC]

36. It really does not matter whether Geronimo was the code name for the

mission or for bin Laden. Either way, the name Geronimo is now tied to a very high profile terrorist. A very bad guy. That is what the problem is.
Geronimo was no more a terrorist than anyone in the various undergrounds in WWII Europe and for the same reason. Geronimo was defending his people and way of life.
They should have picked another name. How about "Cheney's kid" for Osama and "neo-con for the mission. Much more fitting I would think.

[Quixote1818]

41. I agree completely. Man does this piss me off!

Geronimo is now tied to Osama forever and it pisses me off to no end! Geronimo's whole family was massacred in Mexico by European's pushing them off their land. Over and over the US and Mexico broke treaties with the Apache especially if the land they were moved to was found to have copper and other precious metals or even just lots of water. We fucked the Apache and other indigenous tribes over and over and over and killed many of them in the same way Osama killed our people. Whoever the fuck decided to use Geronimo is an ASS HOLE and Obama should have known better! This is my only problem with the whole operation.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blondeatlast]

51. I've tried to stay somewhat respectful of others in this conroversy, but

tears/stomachache/:rofl:!

That was just damn beautiful, EF. :thumbsup: