Should live poultry sales be banned at farmers' markets?

[LoZoccolo]

[leftstreet]

1. I haven't clicked on that thread. What's the skinny?

:beer:

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2. It's a San Fransisco thing...

that alone should tell the average viewer more than they need to know...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1047098

[Trajan]

4. The implication being ?

San Fransisco is quite a Liberal place, eh ? .... LOTS of Liberals and Progressives call the Bay area home ...

So .... What does the average viewer need to know ? .... Please inform us, Mr. Cute Wittle Gun Kitty ....

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13. Ohh... I dunno.

Start with wanting to ban circumcisions (as one of the more recent examples), and work backwards from there.

Shouldn't be too hard.

The place is a goldmine for late night joke material.

Quite honestly... I'm surprised Berkley didn't beat them to the punch on this one.

Ohhh... maybe they could institute a ban on circumcising chickens... let's see San Fran top that one!

[Renew Deal]

15. Banning pet stores

Banning Happy Meals

And much much more...

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31. They TRIED to ban handguns...

but, they got their faces stomped in the mud on that one. :evilgrin:

I guess my true colors are showing with that one... sorry; well no, not really. :evilgrin:

[Trajan]

17. We have lots of NON-Liberals roaming the DU halls ...

Nuff said .....

[Renew Deal]

19. Yes, the "non-liberals" that support local farmers

:shrug:

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26. Correct me if I'm wrong...

but as long as there are no blatantly illegal/harmful issues involved, isn't freedom to choose a Liberal/Progressive thing?

[Renew Deal]

San Francisco is more authoritarian than liberal.

No fun in San Francisco. In this case, no localy sourced chicken. They're driving local chefs to big agra.

[leftstreet]

6. So many chicken threads on DU today. Nuggets, poultry farmers

Thank GOD Homeland Security spends billions to monitor the internet

:beer:

[Renew Deal]

18. LOL

:rofl:

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3. No.

As long as certain public health conditions and requirements are met it shouldn't be an issue.

[sense]

5. oops

[sense]

8. fail

[flvegan]

7. Yes.

Until there are laws to protect the welfare of the animals in question, the animals shouldn't be used in commerce for any reason. In regards to the thread in question, if someone were selling 1,000 puppies each day and packing them into plastic bags to tote home to slaughter, this board would literally shit itself.

[petronius]

14. Funny, I was going to answer "No" with the exact same justification

(Except for the puppy part, that is.) Regardless of the venue, I would expect strict welfare (as well as health/safety and sanitation) regulations to apply right up to the slaughtering.

I was briefly trying to figure out if the measures adopted in Prop 2 would apply here, or whether transportation exemptions would kick in after the birds left the source...

[flvegan]

21. If chickens

Were covered by the Animal Welfare Act and the Humane Slaughter Act, there likely would be no sales at Farmer's Markets. Prop 2 would certainly keep folks from carrying their purchased birds in paper bags in plastic bags like they are there.

[petronius]

30. That seems very likely, but it's fine with me

If we recognize the applicability of a welfare law in one place, why exempt another place, or the space in between?

It looks like Prop 2 has exclusions for transportation and markets - I hadn't realized that...

[Renew Deal]

20. So instead you drive local chefs to Big-agra chickens that you know are abused.

Brilliant!

[flvegan]

23. Where did I do that?

You're telling me (and I can't believe I have to revisit this) that these local chefs are then going to go buy their insisted upon live chickens from Tyson's Chicken Dollar Store? Really.

[Renew Deal]

24. They will do what's easy.

Unfortunately. If it's easier to get dead birds from a supplier than to get live birds locally, they will go to the supplier. I think we're coming from the same place on this (welfare of chickens).

[flvegan]

27. Fair enough, but

and maybe the OTHER thread is coloring my decision on this poll, folks insisting on live chickens won't settle for dead birds. However, I agree with you in that if someone is just looking to buy chicken meat and the easy "buy live" option is removed, then yes they will probably patronize someone selling meat from birds that we all know have been terribly abused. Absolutely agree.

[TheKentuckian]

9. Play more hopscotch!!!

[dkf]

10. Do they kill them right there?

[Renew Deal]

12. No, they give them to you on a leash.

:evilgrin:

[Renew Deal]

11. Oh, this is going to be fun.

:popcorn:

[Blue-Jay]

16. The buyers should be forced to name the chickens first,

and then dress up with the poultry in cowboy outfits for an old-timey photo, titled "Me and Lunchtime Marjorie".

[Pigheaded]

22. I like fresh chicken

So you know how I voted.

Pigheaded

[riderinthestorm]

25. I actually do sell produce at my local green market

In fact, my sister runs/owns/operates the local green market and I am a vendor.

I didn't answer the poll but I would stipulate that whether live animals should be sold depends on local permits and health restrictions. Moreover, at "my" green market, the owner/operators (since this is my sister I KNOW it's done) inspect every farmer/vendor's operation before they are given a tag to ensure they are TRULY organic and truly local.

That rule could be mandated for any live poultry sold at the market.

At my green market there is a beef supplier and his operation has been thoroughly inspected to ensure it is clean, humanely operated, and truly organic. Same with the lamb, egg and chicken providers. While none of them offer living animals for sale at the market, I'm dead cert that customers go to their farms and purchase live animals outside of the market. It's encouraged actually, especially if they are ethnic and are seeking animals that they can ritually (humanely) slaughter themselves.

Honestly, (as a large livestock farm owner so you understand I'm not squishy), I'd prefer not to see living animals at a market. The manure and flies alone would be enough of a deterrent for many customers, let alone vegetarians who would be squicked out at seeing living creatures sold outright for slaughter.

But that said, if a small producer who is doing it correctly was seeking an outlet to market their goods, I suspect it would be given a fair shake, at least at "MY" green market.

[Honeycombe8]

28. It's your right to believe how you want. But I would point out that no "slaughter" is "humane."

The two terms are incongruous. You either "slaughter" a mammal (human or dog or chicken or whatever), or you "humanely" put it to sleep, put it down, put it out of its misery, mercy kill it, or whatever. Slaughter, by its very nature, is inhumane. (I say this coming from a loooooong line of farmers who no doubt slaughtered animals on a regular basis. Even they would say it's not really humane, I'm sure, any time you slice a mammal's neck or chop its head off.)

[riderinthestorm]

32. I'm a vegetarian myself and my animals are humanely euthanized at the end of their lives

not sent into killer pens.

I've got posts on DU that prove I am as concerned about humane slaughter as the next person (and FWIW, I agree with you, in fact ritualistic religious slaughter gets no pass from me even - hanging the animals upside down to slit the throat = major terror and horrific suffering). I was responding as a vendor and "insider" at a local green market and how they operate.

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29. "Live Poultry... Fresh Killed".

This place has been a Cambridge, MA institution for as long as I can remember (now that I look at the date when the place was opened, I realize why),

http://bostonist.com/2007/09/07/mayflower_poult.php

[mrmpa]

33. I remember going to my grandma's house-there would be a duck

quacking around in the basement. My mom would take us for a walk and we had roast duck for dinner. This was just 35-40 years ago.