Geronimo pissed in a river... that water flowed into an ocean...

[cherokeeprogressive]

Today, that piss couldn't be measured by any objective means whatsoever. Parts per billion? Parts per trillion? Parts per quadrillion? Parts per google? Yet there are people here on this board though who think they speak for Geronimo himself, as if he lived yesterday. Fuck that and forget that "Geronimo" wasn't his given name. Forget that the name was given to him by his fucking ENEMY. Forget all that. Focus on the notion that the name was somehow (and there is much disagreement on whether the word was tied to Bin Hidin', the operation to get him, or the exact moment of the operation's success) an intended slight to a Native American tribe or Native Americans in general. Fuck all that.

Be outraged publicly. Pretend that you spend your life looking out for the past wrongs suffered by the indigenous peoples of this continent. Pretend that you really, REALLY care about those people like my relatives who live on the reservation in Tahlequah, OK (and who didn't even have RUNNING WATER until the early 80's), and pretend you've done something, ANYTHING to make their lives better. Profess outrage, and pretend you've done something to make their lives better. Do that if it makes you feel better.

I wish that the people here at DU who profess outrage at the use of the word Geronimo in a military operation would focus that energy in the direction of actually MAKING the lives of Native Americans who live on reservations better and not simply standing on the sidelines and saying "Yeah! What HE said".

My Grandfather left the reservation after marrying a white woman when he came home from WWII and had to leave OK. Yeah, in the 40's, that was a serious interracial marriage. They wound up in a tomato field outside of Hanford, CA which is where my Mom was born. My Grandma carried my Mom from tomato bush to tomato bush as she picked... and she was a WHITE WOMAN, but she was married to an Indian.

I'd willingly give ten years of my life for one week with my Grandfather. He was my Hero, and truth be known, more of a father to me than my own Dad, given the things he taught me.

My point in all of this is that if I were able to ask my Grandfather, the full-blood Cherokee Indian whose roots go back to Nancy... if he were offended by that which seems to make Whites self-conscious, he'd laugh and laugh...

In the end, he'd ask me why it mattered at all.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. My dear cherokeeprogressive...

What a beautiful and well-written essay you have here. I applaud you, and it.

So well said!

Recommended.

[cherokeeprogressive]

7. I will miss my Grandpa until the day I die.

I don't dwell it though as I know in my heart that someday we will again sit at the edge of a body of water and fish together. We'll talk of inconsequential things, and laugh at our disagreements.

I was his only grandson and oldest grandchild. Guess how special my Christmas's used to be.

He lived through so much hatred, and let it flow off his back like that of water off a duck.

He'd wonder what all the fuss was about I'm POSITIVE.

I neglected to add that he wound up a Carpenter who worked for North American Aviation, then North American Rockwell, then Rockwell. He helped build the wooden mockup of the Apollo Capsule and the Space Shuttle in Downey, CA.

He NEVER though, NEVER got angry about things like Native American images used as mascots or such. In fact, his three favorite sports teams were the Redskins, the Braves, and the Indians, BECAUSE he was an Indian and proud of it.

Back in the day, when the Dodgers and Braves were in MLB's National League West, he dogged me no end when the Braves won.

[madmax]

2. Your Grandfather was a very enlightened good hearted man.

You can be very proud. :hug:


K&R

[A HERETIC I AM]

3. Very nicely said.

Thanks for saying it.


How's the driving coming along?

Enjoying yourself?

I'm in Phoenix, loaded 9 units for Denver. Still deciding which way I want to go - really scenic or just scenic!

[cherokeeprogressive]

9. I'm getting back on the truck Sat, or Sun. I love driving. The Cedar Rapids Shenannigans Team has

a 20/10 program, and that's why I've been home so long. I've fished in my boat, taken the wife on a ride on the Harley, and otherwise just generally wasted the last 8 days.

Drive safe My Friend. We'll cross paths someday, I'd bank on it. Sooner than later.

[uppityperson]

4. k&r. No outrage from me. And yes, I have worked at helping friends with no water, no

insulation in their shacks, etc etc etc to figure out how to make their lives better. Words are easier than actions.

Thank you for writing this.

[NYC_SKP]

5. K & Wow.

Recommended.

[WildEyedLiberal]

6. Yeah, there's not a lot worse than White People Who Are Offended on Behalf of Minorities(tm)

It's patronizing, condescending, and very offensive. Thank you for your post and thanks for the perspective.

[Rowdyboy]

8. My grandma gave birth in the fields of Mississippi so we're not that far apart....

Our granddads had much bigger worries back then.

When I talk to kids today, I hear my granddads voice-thats the best gift I could ever give him. He did more to make me a man than my own dad and I loved him more. So goes a life.

[Scurrilous]

10. K & R

:thumbsup:

[fishwax]

11. I enjoyed the second half of your post very much

I guess I can’t relate to the dismissiveness in the first half, though. The first I heard about this story was Monday morning/afternoon on facebook, from friends of mine I knew from my years in Oklahoma. They’re mostly from Oklahoma (though not all live there now) and from a few different tribes, and they were unhappy about the reports at the time that Geronimo had been used to refer to OBL.

Later that night I came to DU, and saw a thread (the first of what has, since, turned into several) about the issue, and I saw the same concerns my friends experienced dismissed as whining, poutrage, oversensitivity, and so on. I responded in that thread (and have responded to several since) because defending the perspectives of my friends against that kind of dismissiveness seemed the right thing to do. And because, in my experience, when people are hurting it’s generally better to try to understand their pain than dismiss it or mock it.

Of course, not everyone has the same reaction to an issue like this, as your (and your grandfather’s hypothetical) response demonstrates. I also saw a statement from Louis Maynahonah, the head of the Apache Tribe of Oklahoma, in which he said he did not see an issue. Nobody should be surprised that there are diverse perspectives; but that doesn’t make it okay, imo, to ridicule those whom it makes uncomfortable. And (particularly when one considers that simply mentioning the codename or suggesting that it is insensitive or whatever hardly constitutes outrage) I have seen more “outrage about the outrage” than outrage about the issue.

Your grandparents’ story was very nice to read. Sounds like a great guy :)

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. Fish... my offense, if you can call it, that comes from

white guilt. Lots of people here (almost all of them white) jumping on the "offense" bandwagon because they've read a post saying that Person A was offended by a negative reference to Group A.

I totally understand the offense some might take from the reference, but think that if they actually contemplated what it was they were offended by, they might take a different view. Geronimo WASN'T the man's given name. That name was given to him by his ENEMY, and no one is really sure why. There are suggestions, guesses, and suppositions, but no real evidence.

So, I'm offended by white guilt determining a word is offensive.

I'll defer to those people who, like me, can trace their ancestry to The First Nations, but not without a little skepticism in the context of whether or not they spend their time AND money to make "my" people's lives better day by day.

I'm not seeing that. What I'm seeing is a bunch of people feeling guilty at the use of a single word, but not walking the walk, as it were.

In in the end, President Obama might acquiesce and apologize, but to what end? Apologize and forget. How does that make my relatives' lives any better?

[fishwax]

13. I don't think it's white guilt determining that it's offensive

There have been some posters here talking about how the word might be offensive. Most of them are likely white, but it doesn't follow that they determined it was offensive because of white guilt.

Outside of DU, all the commentators (public and, like my friends, private) that I've seen making an issue of this are Native Americans.

I guess what you're seeing and what I'm seeing are very different things. :)

[Kaleva]

14. Rec'd. His actual name was Goyaalé(spelled Goyahkla in English).

[uppityperson]

15. day kick

[EFerrari]

16. Native American Activist Winona LaDuke on Use of "Geronimo" as Code for Osama bin Laden

Native American Activist Winona LaDuke on Use of "Geronimo" as Code for Osama bin Laden: "The Continuation of the Wars Against Indigenous People"

The Obama administration has sparked outrage in the Native American community following the revelation it used the name of the legendary Apache leader Geronimo as a secret code word during the raid that killed of Osama bin Laden. Geronimo was an Apache leader who fought to preserve tribal lands against U.S. and Mexican forces in the 19th century. We get reaction from Native American activist and writer, Winona LaDuke. "The reality is that the military is full of native nomenclature,” says LaDuke. "You’ve got Black Hawk helicopters, Apache Longbow helicopters, you’ve got Tomahawk missiles. The term used when you leave a military base in a foreign country is 'off the reservation into Indian Country.' So what is that messaging that’s being passed on? Basically, it is the continuation of the wars against indigenous people."

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/6/native_american_activist_winona_laduke_on

[Zorra]

18. +1. Geronimo’s great grandson, Harlyn Geronimo, said,

quote, "To equate Geronimo with Osama bin Laden is an unpardonable slander of Native America and its most famous leader in history." Jeff Houser of the Fort Sill Apache Tribe requested a formal apology for equating Geronimo with a mass murderer.

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/6/native_american_activist_winona_laduke_on

[cliffordu]

17. K&R.

Wow.

[pipi_k]

19. Very well said...

and that's what it boils down to.



Oh, and what you said about your beloved Grandfather...

it reminds me of the book, "The Education of Little Tree", and Little Tree's own Grandfather.

The book is for young people, but adults would like it too, I think. I know I do.



- great-great granddaughter of a full-blooded M'ikmaq :)

[Zorra]

20. Native Americans Change Profile Pictures To Protest Use of “Geronimo” in Bin Laden Mission

Geronimo managed to never be captured. He died a prisoner of war, after surrendering to the U.S. when a general promised to reunite him with his tribe.

“When people representing the U.S. reach back a century to take a gratuitous swipe at Geronimo as an enemy and to equate him with a terrorist, they are insulting all Native American nations and people,” Suzan Shown Harjo, president of the Morning Star Institute, told a senate committee hearing Thursday. The hearing had been scheduled before bin Laden’s death to address racist names of sports teams.

On Thursday, Indian Country Today asked its Twitter and Facebook followers to change their pics for the next two days. (Some of the Facebook fans asked if they could extend or change the time frame, because they had photos of their mothers up for Mother’s Day. ICT consented.)

Native American leaders, including those from the tribe that descended from Geronimo’s tribe, and descendants of the Apache leader have asked President Barack Obama to issue a formal apology and explanation.

http://mashable.com/2011/05/06/operation-geronimo/

Indian Country Responds to Geronimo, bin Laden Connection

The National Congress of American Indians: In a statement released May 3, the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) responded to the death of Osama bin Laden and reports that the American Indian name “Geronimo” was used as the code name for the operation to kill the al-Qaeda leader.

“Our understanding is that bin Laden’s actual code name was ‘Jackpot’ and the operation name was ‘Geronimo’,” said Keel. “To associate a Native warrior with bin Laden is not an accurate reflection of history and it undermines the military service of Native people. It’s critical that military leaders and operational standards honor the service of those who protect our freedom.”

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2011/05/indian-country-responds-to-geronimo-bin-laden-connection/

Indian Country

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/

[Better Believe It]

21. I'm sorry you won't support the Native-American opposition to insulting Geronimo's name and struggle

Do you speak on behalf of any Native-American organizations?

[PufPuf23]

22. Good writing. Nice story about Grandfather. I disagree with your sentiments.

Refer to posts #16 and #18.

I am 100% western European mutt but grew up and now live in Indian Country.

My parents were born and raised here when access was mule, horse, or foot. I graduated from a Reservation High School. My home is within the boundary of a Federally protected and active ritual complex that has includes several dance pits, ceremonial sweats, spiritual trails, and various altars.

Three of my 4 closest neighbors are Indian and probably 60% plus of the population within 30 miles.

I polled the couple and the young man who is roto-tilling our garden plots rightnow disagree with you too.

Two of my neighbors are 60ish father and mother and 35ish son. My great grandmother's nephew was their great great and great great great grandfather respectively and Little Man's Great Grandmother, a now passed prominent shaman in the anthro's work.

Bonus question for the OP:

What does the settlement of Cobell vs. Salazar mean to the American Indian?