"I don't use Internet Explorer; I use Google."

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Why Many People Won't Switch to Better Browsers

By Joseph D. Lienjdlien. Monday, 2. May, 23:49

...Louis helped Alex install another browser, telling Alex that it would be faster and offer more viewing area for webpages. Interestingly enough, when the installation finished, the browser opened and Alex went straight for the 'X' and closed it as if it were merely an annoying ad.

Louis then showed Alex the desktop icon for the new browser -- a good thing, for otherwise Alex probably would have assumed that 'the blue e' had now been upgraded, and not even known that he had to use a different icon.

Our perservering Internet instructor began to explain to his friend that most web developers don't like it when people view their pages with Internet Explorer. And Alex's response?

"I don't use Internet Explorer; I use Google."



http://my.opera.com/portalnews/blog/2011/05/02/why-many-people-wont-switch-to-better-browsers

[MineralMan]

1. I use more than one browser. In fact, I have pretty much all

of them installed. I do website content writing and work with a very talented designer, plus I do design a few sites myself. We check our websites against all browsers, and make them work flawlessly with all browsers, and in as many versions as possible. That's what real website developers do. The idea is for people to be able to access and use the features on your website, no matter what browser they use. That's good web design.

Poor web designers blame the browser for their site not working for shit. That's sloppy web design.

[justiceischeap]

8. When you can get a site to render the same in all browsers but IE, then IE is the problem

You certainly should code for the site to work in IE but I think trying to make a site look the same in all browsers these days until IE catches up to modern standards is a waste of time and energy. For the sites I'm employed to code for, we make use of CSS3 and HTML to make the sites "prettier" using CSS and the same sites look "plainer" in IE because IE doesn't have modern standards.

IE9 is supposed to be much better than previous versions of IE for web standards (even MS admits their browsers aren't standards based) but I bet hacks will still need to be employed to get IE to "act right."

[steve2470]

12. I thought IE9 was now up to standards ?

Is that incorrect info ?

[justiceischeap]

15. It doesn't offer all the standards based features that you can find in other browsers

At least, that's what I heard at the last web conference I was at. Newer version of IE9 may have come along further since then (that was about 6 months ago).

But it doesn't really matter how standards-based IE9 is because not everyone will be able to upgrade to IE9. The reason there are still so many IE6 users out there is because companies don't want to upgrade their software which allows users to use more current browsers.

[steve2470]

20. fwiw, I just did an Acid3 test with IE9

It gave me a result of 95. Does that indicate standards compliant or does it need to be 100 ?

http://acid3.acidtests.org/

[justiceischeap]

23. That's pretty compliant, I'd be curious to see what other browsers came up with

I'll be happy when the day comes when I code a website and look at in Firefox or Chrome and know it will look relatively the same in IE without a separate stylesheet to bring changes in line. As it is now, I code for FF, Chrome, Safari, then fire up Parallels and code for IE7 'cause IE8 isn't too bad. I just hope IE9 fixes the transparent PNG issue and adds CSS3 support to it.

[steve2470]

28. fwiw, Opera 11.5 = 100; FF4= 96; Chrome 13 canary = 100; Chrome 11 = 100; IE 10PP = 95

Hope that interested someone :)

[Amerigo Vespucci]

16. For anyone who hasn't upgraded to Vista or Windows 7, it doesn't matter

Standards-compliant software that can't be installed without an operating system upgrade carries its own degree of irrelevance.

[steve2470]

21. excellent point nt

[MineralMan]

17. Yes, IE is a problem, but it's one that most websites have to

solve, since there are still many millions of people browsing with IE. I'm not interested in reaching just those who use my preferred browser.

As you say, you can work around it. Or, you can build your site for compatibility. The sites I work on sell stuff or services. Their success depends on visitor retention and conversion. I could give a damn about fiddly stuff. That's not the reason for the site in the first place.

I'm not primarily a site designer, though. I write the content for the sites. I leave the other crap to the designer, who is most annoyed when I find a problem when testing the site's performance in multiple browsers. He's gotten lots better at making them work in a world where the site doesn't dictate the browser the visitor is using.

[Yavin4]

14. Correct.

Good developers make stuff work no matter where it's running.

[tridim]

2. IE renders standard web code quickly and accurately.

Gee, I wonder why my.opera.com would want to perpetuate the myth that it doesn't?



Right backacha.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

4. Oh, I know there's a bias, but that's half the fun.

I especially like the fact that Opera isn't mentioned by name in the article. I wonder which alternative browser they recommend?

:rofl:

[MineralMan]

5. It does do that. That's why every competent web designer

makes absolutely certain that his or her sites display and function flawlessly in IE.

Incompetent web designers put up little boxes telling you their site isn't compatible with your browser. Then, you click the back button and find another web site for whatever it is that you're looking for.

Only non-commercial vanity websites can get away with browser specific stuff. If you're trying to hold people so you can reach them with whatever your message is, you make your site work on all browsers.

[backscatter712]

6. Which version? Because IE6 sucks like a Hoover!

Modern versions of IE do an OK job of rendering pages.

But as any web developer with a slight bit of experience will tell you, coding pages to work on IE6 is a fucking pain in the ass. AND PEOPLE STILL USE IE6! Government departments still use IE6, and won't let their users upgrade!

It's been a pain for years. Finally, enough people have moved on that web developers are starting to end support for IE6, but not all of them!

[justiceischeap]

10. Here, here!

The fact that IE 7 & 8 don't render transparent PNGs correctly should show that IE is not a standards compliant browser.

[MineralMan]

11. Yes, IE6 blows pretty hard. But...as you say...many people

are still using it. If you want maximum usability, you still have to support those users.

Like all browsers, IE6 has a back button, and visitors are pretty quick to click it if your site sucks on their browser. I spend a lot of time watching site stats, and how long visitors hang onto the site is of primary concern to me. The goal is to retain them and move them within the site. That's the first goal of all. If they're gone in 15 seconds, you're doing something very, very wrong on your site.

[justiceischeap]

19. I won't mention whom I work for but everyone has heard of them

We no longer support IE6. Neither does Amazon, Google, Facebook, Microsoft and I'm sure many more large corporations. It's counterproductive at this point.

[MineralMan]

24. Cool. Those visitors will come to the sites I work on, then.

Their money is just as good as anyone else's. Really. I don't use IE6 for my browsing, but it's on my second computer, for site testing.

Joe's Heating and Air Conditioning doesn't want to keep customers off their site. Truly they don't. They want just as many eyes on their site as they can get, so my content will get them to call for a furnace inspection, you see.

It's a real world out there, you know.

[tridim]

I've been a web developer for about 14 years.

I have always preferred IE for pixel perfect accuracy, but I don't hate any other browser. It's just software.

Listen, I know the game, I've dealt with lots of "Firefox RULEZ!!!11" types during my entire career. Most of them hate IE ONLY because it is made by Microsoft, it has exactly nothing to do with functionality.

All browsers have little issues, and all of those issues have solutions.

[MineralMan]

27. In a way, it's sort of like a tire shop where the owner hates

imported cars. "I hate imported cars, so we don't have many tires available for them. They can just go somewhere else. I mean, if they show up here, we'll sell 'em something, but it's really stupid to buy an imported car."

That tire shop isn't going to do well in the long term. Businesses can't discriminate against the choices of their target customers and stay in business.

[quinnox]

3. yep, there are tons of folks out there who seem clueless when

it comes to browsers, the internet, and computers. Nothing new.

[MineralMan]

7. Yep, and if you have a commercial website or a site you hope

people will stay on for a while, you pay attention to those visitors who don't give a damn about your browser preferences.

Only vanity websites can get away with browser-specific features and content.

[justiceischeap]

13. That is so not true...

If you plan your site appropriately a commercial site can offer things that are "enhanced" that IE doesn't get. It doesn't mean that visitors don't get the same content but it does mean that you can certainly deliver it differently. And you don't have to do the "IE sucks get a different browser" message to deliver these bells and whistles.

[MineralMan]

22. Of course. And good developers take whatever steps are

necessary to ensure the the site's content is seen by everyone who happens by. Bad developers don't. Their sites fail in a commercial environment.

I'm not saying you can't take advantage of techniques not supported in IE, but you have to do it in a way that the IE user doesn't have any idea that you're annoyed with him or her.

[justiceischeap]

25. I'm never annoyed with the IE end-user, I do get annoyed at the companies that are too cheap

to upgrade their operating systems so the users can upgrade their browsers. It's not just a web design/development issue but a security issue as well. There is absolutely no reason why developers/designers should be coding for a browser that is 10 yrs old.

[MineralMan]

26. Most of my work is done for B2C companies.

They want folks sitting in their house to get on the site, and that means grandma, too. Browsers vary. The reason the site exists doesn't. We don't care what browser the visitor is using. Not one bit. The site's not the goal. Retaining the visitor and converting them is the goal. Nothing else matters. So, if grandma is using the internal browser in an old version of AOL, we don't care. She's going to get a nice site that's easy to navigate and helpful in answering her questions, all designed to help her contact the business. Confusing her isn't a high priority, nor is having the site look squiggy. We want her to like us.

That's my bias. The sites I've helped build are generating much more business than the sites they're replacing. Much more. They work for the client, and that's the only thing that matters to the client, who is the person paying for my groceries.

[hobbit709]

9. I get this all the time.

If I do a build, I put Mozilla on it. If I disinfect one I put Firefox on it and tell people to use it because it it more secure. 2 months later they're back and the IE files show that's what they've been using nonstop.
Usually after the second time they finally learn and I don't see them for a long time after that.

Then I had one idjit that came in once a month with an infected laptop. The second time he came back I noticed that the antivirus was uninstalled. when I asked why he said he got tired of the warning screens popping up when he was surfing some porn site. I asked him what part of "Danger, danger, Will Robinson" did he not understand?

I fixed it and told him if he brought back the next time like that I was going to charge him double for stupid.

He didn't bring it back for a year and it had a different problem then.

[drm604]

18. Try doing IT support and telling someone over the phone to enter a URL.

They enter it in the search box for Google (or Bing or whatever their installed default homepage is) and then don't understand why the website doesn't open. Then you have to somehow make them understand that they have to enter it in the address box at the top of the browser, something they've apparently never noticed before and didn't know they could even type in.

Then there are the people who know better than that and type it in the right place but automatically type www in front even if I didn't say that as part of the address. This works sometimes but for some addresses, particularly some of those with subdomains, it doesn't work.

[Goblinmonger]

29. Chrome, baby--it's where it's at.

SO much faster.

I teach at a high school that is a Google Apps school. I can't tell you the number of times I have to tell the same students to stop using IE when working in Google Docs. Yet they same kids come back and tell me that Google Docs is too slow and it sucks. I ask if they are using Chrome. They say no. End of conversation.

[CoffeeCat]

30. Seriously. i thought GW was playing w/his computer again...

...doesn't that sound like something that he would say to a group of 3rd graders?

[Shagbark Hickory]

31. I get a kick out of customers who I tell to go to our website while we're on the phone and instead

of typing it into their address bar, they type it into google.

Then the ensuing 10 minute troubleshooting of why it's "not coming up" ensues.

[intaglio]

32. I Only use IE to dowload Opera on a new computer

Then Opera to download Chrome and Firefox.