"Wet House" - Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death

[Liberal_in_LA]

Where alcoholics can drink themselves to death

--------------------

"This is my lifestyle," says Hagerman, 54, while sneaking a swig of what he calls "wash," or mouthwash - a cheap way of getting intoxicated. "It ain't much, but this is what I have. It sucks. "

He says he held a steady job for 20 years, before his addiction to alcohol took over his life. Today, Hagerman lives at St. Anthony Residence in St. Paul, Minnesota, along with about 60 other late-stage alcoholics.

St. Anthony, which receives funds from the state and is operated by Catholic Charities, is known as a "wet house" because Hagerman and the others are allowed to drink on site, with some caveats - including no mouthwash.

-----------------

St. Anthony Residence program manager Bill Hockenberger calls the wet house a "harm reduction model," instead of a treatment center. He says by giving these men a home - men who have all gone through nearly every treatment numerous times - it gets them off the streets.

The added comfort of having a place to call home at night and the dignity that restores in the men in return, he says, leads men to drink less.


http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/06/where-alcoholics-can-drink-themselves-to-death/?hpt=C2

[Skidmore]

1. Catholic "charity".

Need we say more?

[Liberal_in_LA]

2. non catholic charties are doing this also. Getting alcoholics off the street and out of the

emergency rooms.

[sasha031]

18. Catholic Charities does allot of good work

this is a viable option, some can not stop drinking.

[jwirr]

34. Minnesota uses many faith based programs but they have to follow

state guidelines and they do. Two days ago a young man in my community died from too much drinking. And I have witnessed many such deaths here. They are often handled in a similar way - families here make sure they are taken care of as much as they will allow. Sometimes it is just a small rv that becomes a home and they are not shunned.

I give this charity a lot of credit. We are on a rural reservation. They are in a town where it is not a common practice to watch out for your homeless alcoholic.

[sasha031]

38. Catholic Charities helped me about 30yrs ago

my goal was to stop drinking, in which I did. I have lost beloved family members due to alcoholism, they just couldn't stop. I understand first hand what the disease is about and it's consequences.

I am so sorry you lost someone in your community. A small rv is a lifesaver for someone in need. It sounds like you live in a special place, people helping people is there a higher calling?

Catholicism has has it's problems , but we tend to forget the big picture. The one thing they do truly care about it the poor and sick.

[jwirr]

47. It is not so much a higher calling in this community. A reservation is

made up of a group of families who are interrelated so whole villages can be one family - when there is someone in need of help it is a family thing. We need to nurture that idea in all communities.

I have actually put this post in my favorites so that I can show it to my granddaughter who is responsible for the health care of many in the community. Even with the concern of the community this is a great idea. In a home like this they would have better food than if they are alone, better health care and yet freedom to deal with their addiction as they must.

Edited to say that this has been one of the most pleasant threads on DU in a long time. Thank you all.

[Maru Kitteh]

55. I see this as being little different than the back patient whose pain cannot be cured

and must choose to spend their life addicted or in intractable agony. Not much of a choice, really. After all other possibilities have been exhausted many times over, best to help people the best we can, rather than insisting they conform to standards we set but they have no hope of ever meeting.

[pnwmom]

22. Yeah, go ahead.

If you want to sound like a religious bigot.

[blueamy66]

48. My brother and I were adopted through Catholic Charities.

We grew up with awesome parents.

What else do you NEED to say?

[Matariki]

60. I don't know what your are trying to say - but it is indeed a charity.

without the need of quotation marks. Why the hell wouldn't be?

[Stinky The Clown]

61. Yes, "we" need to say more

We being you. What's your point?

I am not Catholic and I am not an alcoholic.

[Hannah Bell]

62. pfft. anti-catholicism is just as much of a prejudice as anti-semitism.

[Skidmore]

66. I'm not enthralled with any religion because they all tend to be

vehicles for political power. In some measure or another their teachings suppress people whether through promoting wars or removing rights from women or sweeping poverty under the rug in exchange for proselytizing and wealth in the coffers.

[seabeyond]

3. having a line of alcoholics in my family and a brother i love dearly.... really,

i dont think this is a bad thing. humane even

[pipi_k]

8. I agree...quite a few members of my own family

died from alcoholism...most recently my brother.

It's terrible enough without making them live like animals if they don't have to.

[blueamy66]

49. My brother too.

When he was only 35...and he left 3 children.

Alcohol is insidious. Ugh.

[pipi_k]

51. I'm so sorry... :(

My brother was two months shy of his 41st birthday. Left 2 kids, both teenagers.

I wish I could say that I hope your brother didn't suffer, but I suspect that's not so. Alcoholism is a horrible way to go. Just horrible.

[blueamy66]

53. Our stories are so alike.

My bro didn't suffer in death, but he did in life.

He was facing prison time for multiple DUIs. I hate to say it, but he is better off where I think he is now.

My fiance and I try to "represent" our side of the family....we take the nieces and their kids out for fun stuff once a month and my fiance takes my nephew out to a "guy thing" as often as he can. We're having all of them over for a cook-out at the end of the month.

I am sorry about your loss as well.

You would think that I wouldn't drink a drop of alcohol, wouldn't ya? I have cut down alot...stick to beer only now....but wish I was strong enough to quit entirely.

Do you drink at all?

[WCGreen]

10. As an alcoholic myself, I see the need for this....

I have been able to stay sober for more than 25 years now but my father was incapable of giving up the drink. He was a threat to others when he was drinking and so this would have been a viable option for him...

[seabeyond]

11. up to a handful of years ago i "encouraged" brother to stop. last handful of years, i cannot

even imagine it.

i am glad you were able to step away. many are. and there is one particular type of alcoholic that seems to just be a part. i swear the dude is bipolar and has always used this to medicate. aslo he was a HUGE soda drinker when young. i hear now a days that is an insight to alcoholism. something about allergic to yeast and alcohol effect them differently

[fascisthunter]

28. sorry seabeyond

I know it's rough... I hope for the best for your brother and family.

[seabeyond]

29. thanks... it really is his to do . and the family? well,

the kids will have to figure it out. isnt that always the way.

i hear ya

[get the red out]

13. I totally agree!

I've been sober 18 years but I think a bit of compassion for folks in this situation and for others their drinking could harm is in order. Everyone won't do things the way society wants, minimizing the damage is something that should be considered.

[WCGreen]

39. Defiantly

[cliffordu]

14. Yep - humane indeed.

Me and my whole family are drunks.

[Sonoman]

20. This place sounds lke my house.

I have no idea how I got home last night.

Tomorrow will tell the same tale.

Sonoman

[Taverner]

4. Sounds good to me. Some people just cannot quit their drug of choice

And there needs to be a humane option, other than letting them die on the streets.

[ixion]

5. I think there should be a 'wet house' for all types of addictive substances

crack, heroin, alcohol, and so on.

[bobbolink]

46. I completely agree. With one caveat.

I don't want to see poor, sober people have to be in the same building.

[dflprincess]

54. The local news did a story about this a few months ago and the house is just for alcoholics

Also, they do not allow the residents to bring bottles into their rooms (or anywhere in the facility, I think).

The point of the house is to give people who aren't able to quit drinking a safe place to go.

[bobbolink]

56. Thank you for that information. I not only fully support this, but I want to see it

happen all over the country, in enough numbers to take care of everyone who needs it.

I have been reading, and I am very touched by the compassion and understanding shown by so many here. This shows what DU *could* be, and it cheers me.

May I humbly suggest that those of you who are in support of this, do whatever you can to make this a reality in your area? This needs a strong movement.

I would also like to toss out the idea that those of you who have lost family members to this insideous disease consider working on a project in your area, and see if it can be named in honor of your loved one.

There is so much we can do to build on our humanity.

Let's, please, get busy on it.

:grouphug:

[handmade34]

57. +1

[Swede]

6. I've had 3 friends drink themselves to death.

That last one once answered "I'm in hell",when I asked how he was doing. The look in his eyes terrified me. If this gives the hopeless some comfort,so be it.

[bobbolink]

7. .

:grouphug:

[Brickbat]

9. We have one of those in the town near where I live and I think it's a great idea.

[kestrel91316]

12. I wish we did that with our drunk, drugged-out homeless here in Lost Angeles.

They number in the tens of thousands, and are a blight on this city.

A roof, a bed, enough food to keep from starving, and we might reclaim our fair city from them.

[bobbolink]

68. "Homeless = blight"

Wow.

:puke:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

15. They are supplying what is so often lacking in our society:

Real compassion and a safe place to live, and die...

I applaud this program.

Recommended.

[Spinny Liberal]

16. I feel sad, but

this is how people some people get through life - which is hard enough.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. It's a horrible way to die. That said, some people simply may never be able to stop

I think there is validity to the harm reduction model, for various addictions- from booze to heroin.

I also think it's important for alcoholics, among others, to be made aware that there ARE options for recovery beyond the standard 12 step model which is pushed by most of the one-size-fits-all recovery "industry". It's not simply a choice between "working THE program" and death, although that is often what is presented to people.

In particular, atheists and others not interested in treating their addiction as "primarily a spiritual problem" should know that there ARE secular alternatives to AA, everything from rational recovery to secular, non 12 step based support groups.

[Rabblevox]

19. "wet houses" have also proven to be a huge savings for tax dollars...

less trips to jail, less trips to the emergency room, and less drinking overall than for alcoholics living on the street. You and I pay far less to house them than to jail or hospitalize them. It's both a humane and efficient part of the problem.

Harm reduction has been proven to work repeatedly, now if only we can get the puritanical PTB to see it.

[tridim]

21. I wish we could replace his drug of choice with a non-toxic alternative.

But the politicians say no.

[KittyWampus]

27. Such as? You think an end stage alcoholic would switch to pot? Is that what you're suggesting?

[tridim]

30. Don't you think it's worth at least a try?

It's not even an option right now.

How about making it available BEFORE alcoholics reach late-stage?

[pipi_k]

50. I think maybe the only way to explain that is this way...

Alcohol provides a certain feeling that someone isn't going to get from pot.

It's probably similar to, for example, people's addiction to certain types of food. Some love salty food. Some love carbs, like mac and cheese. Some love sweets.

I have an addiction to sugary food. Sweets. I'm not going to get the same calming feeling from potato chips and pretzels.

[EOTE]

31. It can happen.

I know you can't just have an alcoholic quit cold turkey. Far from it, alcohol is one of the few substances where withdrawal can cause death in its heavier users. However, there are many alcoholics who can use marijuana to slowly transfer to a far less dangerous intoxicant. I've had relatives who have done it and it has significantly improved their lives.

[Exultant Democracy]

23. It looks like the DU consensus is that this is both compassionate and utilitarian.

I wonder how the teabag fundies feel about this? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess they side with the addiction rehab industry.

[Blue-Jay]

24. Party at St. Anthony's tonight!

wooooooooooo!

BYOB, BTW.

[EFerrari]

25. Harm reduction works.

[fascisthunter]

26. I am Happy to see this... I am an Alcoholic myself

so I have a lot of empathy for these folks who struggle. Being in AA for a few years taught me alot about others and myself.

[Liberal_in_LA]

45. +1

:hi:

[Wickerman]

32. This model works and saves money

I read a recent study that reported an 80-odd percent decrease in Detox services for the people that lived in the home in the first year. Average the year before was 18 uses of detox; down to two in the year following. Figure a detox stay at $750 dollars, ten to 12 grand savings annually.

And, of course, its the humane way to treat someone.

:thumbsup:

[1620rock]

33. Not funny Blue-Jay.

[Blue-Jay]

40. If you want to shame me, you should reply to me.

"shame shame shame, poo-poo is your name"

[bvar22]

35. I support this.

Some people are determined to drink themselves to death.
Trying to force them to sober up does NOT work.

I would do the same for anyone addicted to alcohol or other drugs,
as long as an easy avenue for medical detox and quality treatment is also provided.

[DisgustedTX]

36. Headquarters

A home for Rove indicters.

[dmallind]

37. Perfectly reasonable option when others have all failed

don't care if it's godbotherers or not doing this. People with whom I disagree on some issues can certainly do good things about others. Hitler liked dogs and Papists help terminal boozehounds. Neither is a bad thing.

[discocrisco01]

41. The Twelve Step Model Does Not Work for Everybody

It does not work for everybody. There is alternative programs, but there are a far and few between.

It is a sad thing to watch somebody to drink themselves to death. It happened almost to myself, but I got the 12-step program, a sponsor, and work the steps. I guess that I am grateful that my life is saved by the grace of a power greater than myself.

[bobbolink]

42. K&R

:kick:

[JVS]

43. How can mouthwash be cheaper than the cheapest vodkas?

[rug]

44. It's one approach toward drugs in the Netherlands.

The drug policy of the Netherlands officially has four major objectives:

1.To prevent recreational drug use and to treat and rehabilitate recreational drug users.
2.To reduce harm to users.
3.To diminish public nuisance by drug users (the disturbance of public order and safety in the neighbourhood).
4.To combat the production and trafficking of recreational drugs.

Most policymakers in the Netherlands believe that if a problem has proved to be unsolvable, it is better to try controlling it and reducing harm instead of continuing to enforce laws with mixed results.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands

[bobbolink]

58. Thank you. We really do need to learn from other countries. I hope we can find a way to

get our population to understand this.

Thanks.

[Lyric]

52. I think this is fantastic. We deal with addiction all wrong.

Instead of pushing the abstinence-only addiction treatments that try (and fail) to permanently STOP addiction, we should be instituting harm reduction therapies to teach people how to function and live a productive life in spite of their addiction. Stop framing addiction as a moral and personal failure, and accept that it's a medical condition that has a very, VERY low cure rate, and as such, we need to accept that it isn't ever going to go away and teach people how to live with it.

Most of the social ills that come from addiction are more the result of uncontrolled and unmanaged substance use than about addiction. For example, if people who are addicted to heroin could moderate their usage and stay functional, heroin addiction wouldn't be such a problem. It only causes a problem when it gets out of control. If we offered people services and help to keep their addictions moderated and managed, we wouldn't see so many people losing control and falling apart.

It's hard to do that when there's such an enormous social stigma about addiction. The reality of addiction is that there are people out there who, for whatever reason, cannot simply abstain. In practical terms, they are about as likely to stop being addicts as a diabetic is to stop having blood sugar problems. For those people, it's just not going to happen. With this in mind, how does it make ANY sense at all to treat these people like criminals and outcasts? Just accept that they are addicted, and are likely ALWAYS going to be addicted, and start focusing on moderation and functionality instead of abstinence. Decriminalize drugs, reduce harm for those who can't or won't abstain, and provide support for those people who WANT to try and completely stop--without pressure and without labeling them as failures and losers if they can't do it.

[bobbolink]

59. Beautifully put.

I'd like to see you working on this in your community.

You have so much to say, and you say it very well.

Thank you.

[get the red out]

65. Wonderful statement

I would like to add that good mental health care that is accessible would also go a long way. Many people become addicted to substances while self-medicating for untreated mental illnesses. That truth is often NOT acceptable to say in recovery culture (I've been a part of this culture for a long time and I know better than to talk much about the crushing depression I had before I ever had the first drink, many would quickly correct my thinking on that in a not so gentle way).

[sasha031]

67. this is why I love DU

the compassion and insight by members is truly a beautiful thing.
Thank you for your eloquent post.

I have never mentioned this on DU before but I will now.
I have been a member of AA for many years. Have been fortunate to manage abstinence for many years. I do not contribute this success with AA strict coherence to certain principles. If anything I find the program a bit of a cult in some of it's literature, although it does help millions and there are good people there.

What I will say in my experience is a chronic relapser is looked down upon by many members. This is where the group think comes in. Members will look upon this struggling person as a failure for not adhering to the strict principles again written in the literature. Of course there is always the fear that the disease will wear off on some individuals.
There is good and bad in every organization and 12 step programs are not immune to this.

Again thank you for your above post, it says it all.

[AlabamaLibrul]

63. I take a great amount of umbrage at this headline

Harm reduction works and this model has been used for various drugs in various countries for several years now.

[lumberjack_jeff]

64. When I was a young man, my best friend's dad was a drunk.

The worst I have seen before or since. One day, when he was about sixty he just quit drinking... never another drop.

I don't think intervention is useful if the goal is to make someone else stop drinking - only they can do it for themselves.

The value of intervention is minimizing risk to others.