Is atheism a religion of peace?

[Boojatta]

[haikugal]

1. Atheism is NOT a religion.

[Vehl]

33. +1 nt

[ZombieHorde]

2. I voted, "It depends. Some kinds of atheism are religions of peace, but some aren't."

Most Buddhist sects I know about are religious, peaceful, and atheistic, but the Rand crowd is neither religious nor peaceful.

[Electric Monk]

3. Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color

[immoderate]

15. Like calling *barefoot* a shoe...

--imm

[immoderate]

17. Like calling *naked* an ensemble...

[Nevernose]

56. Like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby

A classic.

[Gamow]

93. Stamp avoidance is my favorite hobby

so far, I have not collected millions of stamps.

[0rganism]

110. i declare you the winner of this thread

Your prize: 1 internet, slightly used

[LanternWaste]

78. Or calling black a color...

Or calling black a color... :shrug:

[mmonk]

4. Religion?

I thought a deity is required.

[LAGC]

5. LOL, I love me some Boojatta polls.

I picked the second option: "The War on X-mas is a clear provocation, clearly a sign that militant atheism is a sinister force out to vanquish everything just and good."

:rofl:

[blondeatlast]

104. I think DU should have a weekly "Boojatta v. RBTexLA"

match.

[drpepper67]

6. If Atheism is a religion

does that mean NOT collecting stamps is a hobby?

Of course not.

[Kip Humphrey]

7. Atheism is firmly rooted in the unknown,

that which we yet do not know.

[skepticscott]

8. Atheism says nothing about peace

Atheism says "I'm not convinced that any gods exist." Period. It says nothing about peace, war, charity, kindness, politics, economics, law, gay rights, abortion, butter vs margarine, Mac vs PC or anything else. The notion of some sort of equivalence between adherence to a religion and atheism should be long dead, but for some reason, people keep dredging it up.

If you wanted to ask whether secular humanism a philosophy of peace, then you might have a sensible question.

[Lucian]

9. Atheism isn't a religion.

[slackmaster]

10. Atheism is silent on the issue of peace

Atheism is broadly the absence of a belief in deities, or narrowly a belief in the absence of deities.

[onehandle]

11. As a collective of believers with meeting places and ego about their outlook...

Peace?

Sure, why not. Most organized r...

...claim to be for peace.

[BluDogsRPubs]

12. Those Darn Secular Humanists....

and their war on Christmas is giving atheism a bad name!

[ixion]

13. While it is NOT a religion, I can say this: Fewer people have died because of atheism than theism

by far.

[quaker bill]

23. They haven't been around all that long

and there haven't been that many of them in a position to make war. I am pretty sure this helps the record. The soviets, officially atheist, had a prodigious body count. Cambodia, officially secular as well, racked up a pretty substantial record too. Give it some time and I am sure atheists will manage to become competitive.

[Lance_Boyle]

67. Atheism has been around forever - it is the natural state of humans!

Every baby is born an atheist, unless or until its mind is corrupted by parental or social pressures pertaining to deities. No human comes into being with any conception of a god or gods - that's precisely what atheism is.

[mmonk]

73. Actually, The Russian Orthodox Church flourished quite well in

the Soviet Union.

[leeroysphitz]

14. "Is the gila copter a machine of pleasure? Is the gila copter a love machine?"

[originalpckelly]

16. Is bald a hair color?

:shrug:

[Warren DeMontague]

18. My favorite Major League Baseball team is "I'm not a baseball fan".

:shrug:

[Capitalocracy]

45. Good metaphor. nt

:toast:

[KG]

19. massive fail.

[Boojatta]

31. With 86 votes and 30 replies, the poll seems to have been a modest success so far.

[Electric Monk]

55. In a classic "usenet troll" kinda way, sure.

Did you ever hang out on alt.folklore.urban?

[Boojatta]

108. No, I can't say that I ever did hang out there.

Few votes and few replies would indicate poll failure. For poll success, is a large number of votes and replies a necessary but not sufficient condition?

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cordelia]

27. Are you for real?

Seek help.

[TheKentuckian]

21. Other: Not a religion but a faith of broad disbelief.

I say faith because they believe something without evidence as though it were fact, just like religious faith.

Agnostic would seem the place to be for the evidence based and those who accept that you cannot prove a negative. Being atheist means a fundamental belief in the unprovable that is not dissimilar to any other fundamentalist strain of belief. There is no doubt there and no room to believe anything else.

I don't believe in the Great Golden Unicorn of Betelgeuse IV but hell if I am so certain that I can say such a being does not exist. I have no indication whatsoever that it does or doesn't so I am a dubious agnostic on such a thing.

The claim there is a God is not very different than the claim that one definitively doesn't exist to me.

The refusal to say "I don't know", "I don't think so", or "I'm highly dubious" is a form of extreme arrogance that doesn't fit in with a mentality of discovery but that is my assessment not to be construed as fact.

I think everyone should focus on or fundamentalist state secular religion, we have actual proof that belief system is false and failed. We have lived it.

[LAGC]

24. You may be confusing "strong atheism" with atheism in general.

Most atheists don't claim to know for sure that there is no god/goddess, only that they don't believe there to be, due to lack of evidence. The point being, that the chance of such a deity really existing as described by religionists is so remote, that its not worth seriously considering.

Agnosticism is more about "we can't ever possibly know" which is just as presumptuous, in my opinion, as science has taught us a lot and undermined faith much already.

[Motown_Johnny]

37. why do you make a distinction between a "faith" and a "religion"

I agree with your thinking but am not willing to make that distinction
.

IMO a faith and a religion are to similar to split hairs over.

[Luminous Animal]

52. Actually, atheist live without god because of the absence of evidence.

Belief has nothing to do with it and faith certainly does not.

You've admitted that you don't believe in the Great Golden Unicorn... would you base your moral and spiritual well-being on something that you don't believe in? Would you attend weekly gatherings to pray to the Great Golden Unicorn on the chance that she might exist?

[bergie321]

22. Atheism IS Peace

Know religion, know war
No religion, no war

[vim876]

75. Seriously?

Do you honestly believe there would be no war without religion? Because if so, I have a bridge to sell you.

[and-justice-for-all]

88. I believe there would be less war, much less war...

it is hard to comprehend what a war would be like if it was not religiously motivated. If you are not killing some one because you think of them as infidels since their dogma is evil in your eyes, what would an Atheist like myself have reason to kill someone for? War can be eradicated without the breaking of someones will and humanity.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Goblinmonger]

36. Why would atheists POSSIBLY be angry and offended?

Hmmmm. Let me think?

[Dreamer Tatum]

47. Because other people dare to believe in something you don't? nt

[LAGC]

50. As with most privileged classes, it doesn't take much "dare" to simply go along with the majority.

I'd suggest its much more of a dare to dis-believe, than it is to simply go along with everyone else and believe like good sheep.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

[JoePhilly]

68. Believe as I do, or spend eternity in hell.

This is the position many believers take. And not only do they hold this view, they will knock on your door and say it to your face, while smiling.

Then, when you tell them to go away and leave you alone, they claim that you have insulted them.

Apparently, my unwillingness to believe what they believe, is now an attack ... by me, on them.

[skepticscott]

71. And for a good part of history

It was "believe as we do, or be the main attraction at the church barbecue"

[JoePhilly]

96. Very true.

[Goblinmonger]

72. And then try and force that belief on me.

In the form of jingoistic sayings on my currency. In the form of statements I am expected to say as I pledge to my flag. In the form of various laws which are based on nothing more than religious beliefs.

People can believe whatever they wish. Once they make me act in compliance with those beliefs, I don't think it's too much to ask that I at least be able to talk about it. But people like you would be much more happy if we just went to the back of the bus and shut up.

[and-justice-for-all]

83. What a load of nonsense that is..nt

[SidDithers]

105. ...

Sid

[Wait Wut]

107. Judging by your comment...

...I would then have to assume that you are an Atheist considering that was a pretty angry statement. But, it is fun to judge everyone based on a few members of their group, isn't it? I'm going to go further out on a limb here and say that an Atheist would be justified in making the same exact statement about Christians.

[yella_dawg]

26. Other.

You're a bleedin' loonie.

[former9thward]

28. World famous atheists like Stalin and Mao were not too peaceful.

[LAGC]

29. Wow, fully 28 replies before the "evil commie atheist" canard came out.

Congrats!

(Of course, Stalin/Mao/Pol-Pot all committed their crimes in the name of atheism, right? Didn't have anything to do with their misguided political views at all... of course not.)

[former9thward]

30. If you read Stalin and Mao, yes.

I have not read Pol-pot, just seen firsthand his handiwork. Stalin and Mao both ranted against religion and blamed it for the ills of the masses. The OP asked if atheism led to peace. There have not been too many atheists in power but the ones who have been have not been peaceful.

[Luminous Animal]

40. Neither Mao or Stalin hid behind atheism to consolodate totalitarian power.

Both hid behind communism.

Look at it this way, in order to establish totalitarian both Mao and Stalin had to separate the people from well-established (and powerful in their own right) religious institutions. Totalitarianism was the cause, destroying religious institutions was a tool. And, in fact, Stalin allowed a revival of religion during WWII, enlisting religious leaders to drive up patriotic fervor among believers to help defeat the Nazi's.

On the other hand, Hitler used, rather than rejected) religion (and cultivated religious allies) to further advance his totalitarian regime.

[LAGC]

43. You should rent and watch the Biography documentary "Pol Pot" (1997)

What I find most telling about these supposed "atheists" was how superstitious they were. Stalin in particular had some serious delusions, beyond just his normal power tripping -- a good part of the reason for the "purges" was he was so paranoid about everyone scheming behind his back, conspiracies that were never there, he lashed out at his own most trusted comrades if his latest astrological projections foretold of an "imminent threat." Mao had some weird rituals himself.

It's probably safe to say there was probably some form of mental illness going on with all three, which only made it worse for all the subjects involved.

Pol Pot pretty much transformed Cambodia from a budding industrial power back to the Bronze Age, by evicting all city residents out to fend for themselves in the country-side. Untold millions starved to death. It's just hard to see how their brutal political/economic policies had anything to do with their (presumed) lack of belief in any sort of deity.

[and-justice-for-all]

94. Both thought of themselves are godlike...

and therefore acted as such. I am not convinced that they were atheist.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. ..

:eyes:

[Motown_Johnny]

34. I would argue that atheism IS a religion

Atheists believe that God does not exist.

It is impossible to prove a negative. Therefore it is impossible to ever prove that God does not exist.

Believing in something without proof requires faith, so the Atheists have faith that God does not exist.

Belief based on faith is close enough to a religious belief that I am not willing to make a distinction.


IMO Atheism is a religion.



Now, is it one of peace? That is clearly debatable.

[Luminous Animal]

41. Your post reveals that you do not know the definition of religion.

[Motown_Johnny]

42. Well, one of us doesn't

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

^snip^


1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.





Atheism clearly fits the definition of a religion.

[Luminous Animal]

49. Especially when considered as the creation of superhuman agency or agencies...

usually involving devotional and ritual observances.

Atheists specifically disregard the notion that the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe as a creation of a superhuman agency or agencies.

Atheists live their lives with no god, not, as you claim with faith that their is no god. Similarly, atheists live their lives with no tree elves, no gnomes, no flower fairies, no silkies, and no pixies.

[Motown_Johnny]

63. "Especially" not "Specifically"

Buddhism does not teach the existence of a God. By your "definition" Buddhism is not a religion.


Atheists live their lives with the belief that there is no God. They don't have the ability to live their lives with no God if one (or more) does/do actually exist. Their belief does not dictate the existence of a God or Gods.


Religions are belief systems not based on proof. You can't prove that a God or Gods do not exist, therefore if you believe that they don't exist you have a belief not based on proof and this falls within the definition of a Religion.

[Luminous Animal]

79. The second part of your definition applies to Buddhism...

"usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs".

Atheists are as successful at living their lives without god as they are living their lives without leprechauns.

Atheism arises from the absence of proof that god exists not from any attempts to prove god does not exist.

[Motown_Johnny]

100. then they should admit the possibility that a God does exist but that

we simply do not have the evidence to prove it as of now.


Atheists tend to say that they KNOW there is no God. To me that is the same as people who say that they KNOW that there is a God.

Both require a conclusion without proof.

[A HERETIC I AM]

46. "Atheists believe that God does not exist. " Bullshit.

I am Atheist and I can assure you with absolutely no reservation that your statement is utter bollocks.

"Belief" doesn't enter into it for me. I know "god" is a mythical construct. There is no belief there at all. There is knowledge that all gods are mythical. All of them. Always have been and always will be, whether it is Zeus or Jehovah or whatever.

It's like saying "I believe unicorns and leprechauns do not exist". It is absurd because I know unicorns and leprechauns are mythical.

The rest of your post is just one false premise after another.

[Motown_Johnny]

64. It is not possible for you to know that, you have simply convinced yourself of that

it is unknowable

[A HERETIC I AM]

87. Is it unknowable that Zeus and Apollo are mythical?

How about Athena? Or Thor? Or any of the thousands of others? Why would the god of Abraham and Isaac be any different?

I KNOW the concept of a "god" is mythical. It is most certainly possible to know that, because I do.

[Motown_Johnny]

101. Nope, no way to know if they exist or not

I agree that they were once in style and now are not. I agree that centuries from now the common God concept that is now acceptable may be laughable.


It still requires a leap of faith to go from not having evidence for the existence of something to a belief that it must not exist.

In my opinion, it is that leap of faith which places atheism into the realm of a religious belief.









There is now a theory that the universe we know is simply a computer generated reality. We are all programed to react to it as if it were real.

If that were true then wouldn't the creator of that program be our God?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

57. so anyone who believes unicorns do not exist, belong in a religion

of other non-unicorn believers?

[Motown_Johnny]

65. If you read the definition of religion that I posted

you will see that religions deal with the cause, nature and purpose of the universe

Unicorns do not deal with the cause, nature or purpose of the universe



Can you now answer your own question?

[RedCappedBandit]

76. Can you prove that they don't?

[Motown_Johnny]

98. of course not, that is kinda the point

You can't prove a negative. If you want to start a religion that worships a unicorn as a creator of the universe you have every right to do so.

I can't prove you wrong, I can't prove you right.

Hell, maybe you are right. (I kinda doubt it but who knows?)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

77. no, religions deal with the existence of god and thereby the cause

nature and purpose of the universe.

if you cant believe in the first, the cause/nature and purpose are also unbelievable

you said it was impossible to believe in a negative, hence per your argument, unicorns do exist and those of us who believe they don't exist are in a non-unicorn religion

[Motown_Johnny]

97. you misquote me, I said it is impossible to PROVE a negative

not that you can't believe in one.


It simply requires an act of faith to believe in something without proof. This applies to the negative as well as the positive.



Besides, it is a big universe out there. Maybe there are some single horned equine out there somewhere. I can't prove it either way.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

103. exactly. so those of us who dont believe this equine exists are now a religion

of non-horned equine believers?

[piratefish08]

80. Atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief in a negative.

There is a difference.

But of course you already knew that.

[tekisui]

90. Bull, circular logic.

Not believing in something due to a lack of evidence is not a practice of faith. What a ridiculous post.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madokie]

38. I am atheist

non-religious

[Balbus]

39. Definitely a religion. Whether peaceful or not depends on the individual atheist.

[Capitalocracy]

44. So what term would you use for someone who really doesn't have a religion? nt

[Balbus]

54. Sane.

[Hugabear]

48. Seriously?

[Evoman]

51. I don't know, but next time I shave my head, I'm going to get a perm

on my bald head. Or should I dye my non-hair a different colour and get a mullet?

[Taverner]

53. LOL

[Capitalocracy]

59. Oops.

Wrong place.

[InvisibleTouch]

58. It's not a religion. Whether it's "of peace" depends on the individual.

I've known some atheists who were every bit as closed-minded and obnoxious as some religious people. Emphasis on the word "some." I have no problem with either atheists or religious people (I consider myself neither), as long as they're not trying to force their worldview on others, or attacking others for seeing things differently.

[Capitalocracy]

60. There's no God, therefore we can kill as many people as we like and it's no big deal.

I doubt there are many people who think that. Hey, maybe there are a few, but I doubt there are many.

[ismnotwasm]

61. Not a religion

Which is quite clear.

What, exactly are you up too, Hmm?

[TransitJohn]

62. More importantly, is pumpkin pie the best sort of motor oil? eom

n/t

[Creideiki]

66. It's more of a philosophy than a religion

But, yes. It doesn't come with backdoors to get you into Heaven after numerous misdeeds.

And I'm theist.

[HappyMe]

69. No, it's not a religion.

I don't know about peaceful.


Or maybe it is -- they believe that they don't believe.
:shrug:

[RedCloud]

70. Once evolution sells chocolate dinosaurs and threatens you with eternal neanderthalism

Then it can become a religion!

[RegieRocker]

74. Not no but Hell No. Some of the most evil people I know are atheists.

[and-justice-for-all]

85. "Some of the most evil people I know are atheists." really?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

106. some of the most evil people i know are christians/hindus

so are some of the nicest.

generalizing non random data leads to terribly useless knowledge.

[and-justice-for-all]

81. Atheism is NOT a religion...

it is a declaration that there are no god(s) and Atheism has no doctrine (unlike religions) to which to subscribe. Atheism is philosophy.

[backscatter712]

82. Atheism is not a religion.

I won't say that atheism inherently promotes peace, but I'll say that religion provides a huge number of excuses for war...

[and-justice-for-all]

84. Atheism does promote peace..nt

[backscatter712]

89. Speaking as an atheist myself, I'll say that atheism removes religious excuses for war.

How many wars have been fought over imaginary sky-daddies? Quite a few.

Granted, there are plenty of other reasons - raiding for resources, political differences, etc. So I won't say that the world will instantly cease all war if somehow, every person on this planet renounced religion.

[tekisui]

91. Atheism also removes religious excuses for bigoted and hateful policies.

[backscatter712]

92. Good point! n/t

[Tommy_Carcetti]

86. Is air a delicious food?

Is silence beautiful music?
Is a rock a beautiful animal?

What type of question is that?

[ozone_man]

95. Perhaps not the result OP expected? n/t

[treestar]

99. Don't know

I would generalize that an atheist would value his/her life more, not seeing an afterlife. Therefore, less likely to run into a war - not to participate in one without absolute necessity. That could make it a more peaceful thing.

A lot of wars have religion as their cause. What's going on now started due to Muslim fanatics, with extreme reaction against all Muslims by Christian fanatics.

[Freddie Stubbs]

102. Peter Fonda claims to be an athiest:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1165313

[Forkboy]

109. Are humans a species of peace?

[frogmarch]

111. The atheists I know are peaceful.

And most agree with me on this: Even if a supreme deity does exist despite there being no evidence for it, worshipping or praying to it wastes time that could be better spent doing something worthwhile for our planet and its inhabitants.