This Is What A Police State Looks Like

[Donnachaidh]

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/05/21

The late Chalmers Johnson often reminded us that “A nation can be one or the other, a democracy or an imperialist, but it can’t be both. If it sticks to imperialism, it will, like the old Roman Republic, on which so much of our system was modeled, lose its democracy to a domestic dictatorship.” His warning rings more true by the day, as Americans watch the erosion of their civil liberties accelerate in conjunction with the expansion of the US Empire.

When viewed through the lens of Johnson’s profound insights, the Supreme Court’s recent ruling in Kentucky v. King makes perfect sense. On May 13, in a lopsided 8-1 ruling, the Court upheld the warrantless search of a Kentucky man’s apartment after police smelled marijuana and feared those inside were destroying evidence, essentially granting police officers increased power to enter the homes of citizens without a warrant.

Under the Fourth Amendment, police are barred from entering a home without first obtaining a warrant, which can only be issued by a judge upon probable cause. The only exception is when the circumstances qualify as “exigent,” meaning there is imminent risk of death or serious injury, danger that evidence will be immediately destroyed, or that a suspect will escape. However, exigent circumstances cannot be created by the police.

In this case, the police followed a suspected drug dealer into an apartment complex and after losing track of him, smelled marijuana coming from one of the apartments. After banging on the door and announcing themselves, the police heard noises that they interpreted as the destruction of evidence. Rather than first obtaining a warrant, they kicked down the door and arrested the man inside, who was caught flushing marijuana down the toilet.

More at the link --

[Shagbark Hickory]

1. They can do that.

There was an episode of Alaska State Troopers where the resident came outside the door to greet the cop who knocked. The Cop had reason to believe there was drugs inside and wouldn't let the resident go back inside until they had a warrant to search. I know that's a little different but my point is even with a warrant, if they want in, they're coming in.

[ThomWV]

2. K&R - but I must make a correction, an important correction to my mind

Here is what you said:

"Under the Fourth Amendment, police are barred from entering a home without first obtaining a warrant, which can only be issued by a judge upon probable cause. The only exception is when the circumstances qualify as “exigent,” meaning there is imminent risk of death or serious injury, danger that evidence will be immediately destroyed, or that a suspect will escape. However, exigent circumstances cannot be created by the police."

Here is my correction - no place in the Constitution is there an exception to the 4th Amendment or any other Amendment that applies when "there is imminent risk of death or serious injury, danger that evidence will be immediately destroyed, or that a suspect will escape. However, exigent circumstances cannot be created by the police."

In fact the word "exigent" does not exist in the Constitution.

[notesdev]

3. the 4th

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The key is whether a search is reasonable. Personally I think it particularly unreasonable to allow a cop to kick down a door on the claim he smells marijuana for a couple of reasons: first, a smell is completely unverifiable as a standard of evidence which means accepting it allows any cop to claim this anytime he wants to break down a door; and secondly, the harm done by a person smoking pot (if there is actually any, which is questionable) is less than the harm done by the cop in kicking down someone's door.

[CrispyQ]

6. And third, just because you smell pot in a hallway does not mean

it came from one of the apartments. Someone sould have walked down the hall smoking a joint a few moments before. Unlikely, sure, but still possible. We are on a seriously slippery slope if we allow cops to search our persons/residences/cars because they "smell pot."

I don't even recognize this frickin' country anymore. Big pharm execs push drugs that result in serious damages & class action law suits & they continue to live their fat, cushy lives & this man will go to jail for smoking dope. Fuck.

[notesdev]

7. This is not a slippery slope

this what happens after that - effectively unrestricted police action in private homes

America is basically one big prison right now. Some cells might be a bit nicer than others but you have no more rights than an inmate.

[WingDinger]

15. As the cop left with me insulting them, he said that not letting them right in, is why they were sur

sure I was guilty.

[SDuderstadt]

8. This "guy" was...

a cocaine dealer, not just merely a "pot smoker".

[hootinholler]

10. Oh, ok. Then that's all right then.

As long as some heinous evidence is found an illegal entry is okey dokey?

-Hoot

[SDuderstadt]

11. Should the police have ignored...

the crack and powder cocaine in plain view?

King was rightfully convicted.

[WingDinger]

16. Cops busted my door in, and expanded the search, when I answered his interrogation of

Who I have in my crawlspace for the fifth time with a snide Jimmy Hoffa. Cops do as they will. They always will.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SDuderstadt]

9. So, what?

The words "fair trial" do not appear anywhere within the constitution either. Would you argue that we have no right to a fair trial? Would you argue that there can be no exceptions to the 1st amendment? For example, could I claim that I have a first amendment right to commit perjury?

Interpreting the Constitution is what the USSC does.

[robcon]

4. No, North Korea or Cuba is what a Police State looks like.

What the cops did was legal and acceptable, IMO.

[Ezlivin]

12. It's acceptable until it's your door

And now that you've handed the cops the ability to simply claim they smelled something suspicious as the only reason they need to forcibly enter your residence, point guns at you and scream "Get down!" do you feel safer?

Yeah, you're innocent, just watching television and chillin'. But after the police force has tramped throughout your residence, rifled through doors and left the place a mess (if you're lucky they didn't shoot your "threatening" dog) you'll have to go about putting your life into order. Naturally you'll do this after a few hours at the police station trying to make them understand you were innocent. You'll probably need a lawyer, so get out your checkbook.

But that's cool, right? Mistakes are made. As long as we can nail the occasional bad guy it doesn't matter that scores of innocent people have to go through all that shit.

Damn.

[SDuderstadt]

13. The police did not bust the door down merely...

because they claimed they thought they smelled marijuana.

Please quit mischaracterizing the decision.

[JonLP24]

23. Also said they heard sounds of what they thought was evidence being destroyed

All I know is I gotta be careful about smoking a blunt and taking a shit. A fugitive might run by my home.

[WingDinger]

24. Cops that invaded me at midnite, claimed to hear a woman crying, for 15 minutes.

As I chased their corrupt asses out the door, I said I would have to investigate that ghost they heard crying. I had been asleep since 8. I live alone.

[tuckessee]

20. You may be right. The US isn't a Police State - it's a Prison State.

When a nation which has only 5% of the world's population yet has 25% of the world's prison population it's more accurate to call it a Prison State.

Even the Cubans & North Koreans would have to work really hard to jail as many of its own citizens as The Land of the Free does.

[Odin2005]

5. I've always thought that we are in the same stage Rome was in the time of Marius and Sulla.

[Mimosa]

26. ^ Oh wow! You said it. ^

Odin2005, you are my new D.U. best friend. Back in the early 2000s a great liberal who's slowly mentored me (he wouldn't call it that but I would) introduced several of us who posted on one board (my signature links there) to Colleen McCullough's Masters of Rome novels. That may have been my most exciting probably literary experience EVER!

I learned so much about the late Republican period and how Rome transformed into a military dictatorship. And enjoyed learning. :)

[Odin2005]

31. Thanks!

[WingDinger]

14. Folks just dont get it. You have NO RIGHTS, till it gets to court.

There, illegally obtained evidence will be thrown out. IfFFFFFFFfffffffFFFFFFFFF they overstepped their bounds. Many times, they think they will ad hoc justify it. I had four cops bust my door down. Using the imminent danger scam. They even had a so called neighbor calling it in. They cant divulge who that is though. Cute trick. And that is BEFORE this incident.

Had they tried to push some kind of prosecution, I would have crucified them in court.

[hootinholler]

18. Did they repair your home?

Did they pay damages?

-Hoot

[WingDinger]

21. I threw out veiled threats of having their asses, for any additional hassle.

They shoved my door and kicked it, but didnt break the hinges. I am a med mar patient, and they left my grow without even a handprint.

[ieoeja]

19. But what makes evidence "illegally obtained"?

They eliminated the knocking requirement two decades ago. Now they don't even need a warrant. What is left?

[WingDinger]

22. Badass vigilance, in the face of mortal danger. Those invaded willing to fight.

Not making any harsh moves till court. Not winding up with a throwdown in your hand dead.

[ieoeja]

25. Very astute legal argument there.

WingDinger: "I move that the evidence was obtained illegally."

Judge: "On what grounds?"

WingDinger: "I maintained badass vigilance, in the face of mortal danger. Invaded, I am willing to fight for my rights. I made no harsh moves til court thus not winding up with a throwdown."

Judge: "Motion denied. You're going to need a lawyer."

[Maat]

28. I would say that it's YOUR argument that doesn't pass legal muster.

If the evidence was obtained illegally, it is NOT going to be allowed into evidence. Deal with it.

[JoeyT]

29. I think what he meant was it's almost impossible to prove evidence illegaly obtained now.

Seeing as the law is just about to the point of "Whatever cops want to do is perfectly OK.".

[Maat]

32. Well, if that's the case, I'm sorry I offended.

I think that it would be easier to proof than you think.

[Maat]

27. Bookmarking (n/t).

[Viking 1]

30. My farts smell like hashish

I'm screwed! :scared: