A Psychopath Walks Into A Room. Can You Tell?

[cali]

Some psychologists have a theory that many of the world's ills can be blamed on psychopaths in high places.

"Robert Hare, the eminent Canadian psychologist who invented the psychopath checklist, ... recently announced that you're four times more likely to find a psychopath at the top of the corporate ladder than you are walking around in the janitor's office," journalist Jon Ronson tells Guy Raz, host of weekends on All Things Considered.

Ronson is the author of a new book, The Psychopath Test: A Journey Through the Madness Industry. The titular test is called the PCL-R. Invented by Hare, it's a checklist of characteristics common to psychopaths: things like glib and superficial charm, grandiosity, manipulative behavior and lack of remorse.

Picture a psychopath and you might think of Norman Bates. But Ronson says successful businessmen can also score high on the checklist. While researching his book, Ronson visited the Florida home of Al Dunlap — known as "Chainsaw Al" — who as CEO of appliance maker Sunbeam was notorious for his gleeful fondness for firing people and shutting down factories.

<snip>

http://www.npr.org/2011/05/21/136462824/a-psychopath-walks-into-a-room-can-you-tell

[lightningandsnow]

1. I actually think most of the harm caused in the world is not caused by psychopaths.

I honestly think all this psychologizing is a distraction from the fact that people like you and me can do terrible things. We all have the potential to cause harm, sometimes life-changing harm. We all have caused harm. By saying those who cause harm are probably psychopaths, we are saying they are beyond help and nothing can be done to prevent harm or to hold people accountable once it happens. When we acknowledge that we all can cause harm, we work towards solutions.

[salvorhardin]

3. I think that's mostly right but would add...

That our society in the last 40 years has been tailored to reward and encourage psychopathic behavior. Not intentionally, of course, but that has been the outcome of 40 years movement to the right.

[cali]

4. it doesn't seem like you read the article.

In any case, yes everyone (or mostly everyone) has the potential to do terrible things, but why? Generally, it's because they are persuaded to do so. And who does the persuading?

[slackmaster]

7. I think idiots do much more harm than psychopaths

Simply because there are so many idiots.

[KittyWampus]

10. Idiots play to the law of averages. Psychopaths are focused enough to extend their dysfunction

immensely.

[Cal33]

15. I agree with your assessment. Karl Rove is about as prominent

a psychopath as anyone can find. And he is highly intelligent and focused.
No idiot could have done the amount of harm to the nation that he has managed
to do.

[hfojvt]

24. but the average idiot may not have much power

a CEO has much more power than most other people, and can do much more harm.

I also doubt there are THAT many idiots.

I would lean more towards what Lasher said in Vonnegut's Player Piano

"there must be virtue in brilliance followed by stupidity, for Man is alternately brilliant and stupid ..."

Essentially, that many of the people you call idiots are really idiot savants. Or at least not as stupid as their most stupid statement or act makes them look. Nobody's perfect. We all sometimes do or say really stupid things.

[KittyWampus]

9. I think our problem is we ignore our psyches and reach for a pill too often. Further,

too many now simply give in to our reptilian behavior, which is played to by corporations advertising, and ignore cultivating our higher brain functions.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. Nothing of the sort.

Of course, ordinary people are capable of doing terrible things. But ordinary people feel guilt and remorse and seldom repeat those terrible things. A psychopath, by definition, does not and has no reason - short of being stopped by outside influences - to not keep right on doing them. They are driven purely by self interest. Those who have poor impulse control become criminals. Those with good impulse control become Republicans.

[TrogL]

2. Define "psychopath" as distinct from "sociopath"

[dixiegrrrrl]

16. Difference between the 2: terms are actually interchangeable to a large degree.

Mental Health Manual (DSM-IV-R) symptoms of psychopathy:

callous disregard for the feelings of other people,
the incapacity to maintain human relationships,
reckless disregard for the safety of others,
deceitfulness (continual lying to deceive for profit),
the incapacity to experience guilt, and the failure to conform to social norms and respect for the law.

Definition of Sociopathy ( known as "Anti Social Personality Disorder)per MH Diagnostic Manual"

There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

* failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviours as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
* deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
* Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
* Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
* Reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
* Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honour financial obligations;
* Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;
* The individual is at least age 18 years.

the key difference is that Anti-social Personality Disorder is known for "impulsivity, failure to plan ahead"& other behaviors which often lead to being arrested, whereas a sociopathic is often known to be more cunning, can plan ahead, not acting out of uncontrollable impulses.

Both definitions have an emphasis on lack of empathy and conscience, much self centered focus.

[sofa king]

37. The definition is about to change anyway.

For someone has already managed to get the DSM-V task force to sign nondisclosure agreements.

In particular, it appears that the DSM-V task force, working in secret, plans to redefine the personality disorders in Cluster B. Why is that important? Because within Cluster B one can virtually define the short list of Republican Presidential candidates and recent office holders.

Ask yourself if George Bush or Mitt Romney manages to hit five out of these nine bells for Narcissistic Personality Disorder:

* Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

* Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

* Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

* Requires excessive admiration

* Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations

* Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends

* Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others

* Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her

* Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

Now ask yourself if Sarah Palin hits five out of eight of these criteria for Histrionic Personality Disorder:

* is uncomfortable in situations in which he or she is not the center of attention

* interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior

* displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions

* consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self

* has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail

* shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion

* is suggestible, i.e., easily influenced by others or circumstances

* considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are.

And of course the old-school sociopath has long since been chased from the books. But see if you can find Newt Gingrich and Dick Cheney among the criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder:

* failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;

* deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;

* impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;

* irritability and aggression, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;

* reckless disregard for safety of self or others;

* consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;

* lack of remorse, as indicated by indifference to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;

So there you go. When your political party is clogged with toxic personalities who are guaranteed to doom our country to failure, what do you do? You redefine the toxic personalities, of course, so that business as usual can continue unchanged. Just like fixing your car by putting a piece of tape over the "check engine" light, rather than taking that shitbox into the shop and getting it fixed.

[barbtries]

39. yep.

personally i see palin all over the npd. but the point is clear. we are a sick country.

[elocs]

20. Not a definition, but a clip from the great "Sherlock" series on BBC:

This is Sherlock Holmes speaking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9sUVrVS4co

From a layman's perspective I believe we tend to think of a psychopath as being a person who is criminally dangerous while a sociopath lacks that element.

[TrogL]

21. I tend to think of cartoon villians

Psychopaths have problems "passing for normal", Joker being the best example of the meme.

Perry White, editor of the Daily Planet, is probably a sociopath.

[Z_I_Peevey]

25. On the contrary, the most 'talented' psychopaths

can pass for normal (or whatever quality they wish to project) quite well.

Think 'The Talented Mr. Ripley' or Keyser Soze.

[Love Bug]

29. Love that series!

Although I think Sherlock was pulling Anderson's leg a bit!

I think we see psychopaths as acting/looking crazy but sociopaths as acting much smoother than that.

[Blue_Tires]

38. +1

[Riftaxe]

36. The following link has a decent summary

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/forensic-focus/2010/07/sociopathy-vs-psychopathy/">Sociopathy vs. Psychopathy

...In other words, in the mental health field there is some consensus that psychopathy is more of an innate phenomenon whereas sociopathy, which has a similar clinical presentation to psychopathy, is more the result of environmental factors (poverty, exposure to violence, permissive or neglectful parenting, etc.). This is of course difficult to prove, as the nature versus nurture debate never seems to have a winner, and for good reason–it is very likely that both our biological components and environmental exposures influence and shape us fairly equally.

...However, other differences between psychopathy and sociopathy, aside from origin, have been cited. The capacity to feel attachment and empathy towards another and to feel guilt and shame after doing something wrong is not associated with psychopathy; however it is suggested that sociopaths can emotionally attach to others, and feel badly when they hurt those individuals that they are attached to. The sociopath will still lack empathy and attachment toward the greater society and will not feel guilt in harming a stranger, or rebelling against laws, but does not lack empathy entirely, as is typical with the psychopath.

[meegbear]

5. If they're wearing a Repug-related shirt or button ...

you got one.

[slackmaster]

6. I knew a dog who could detect psychopaths instantly

He'd start barking furiously when he met one. It was pretty interesting.

[hobbit709]

12. If my dogs don't like someone, I don't trust them either.

they've never been wrong in spotting weasels.

[pipi_k]

8. That's a tough one, but...

whenever I sense superficial charm, my "radar" gets activated. I get this very uncomfortable feeling inside.

People who don't display at least a little bit of reserve upon first meeting me are suspect.


I look at people's eyes to see what, if anything, is in/behind them.

Some people's eyes are empty.


I grew up in an alcoholic home with a father who was prone to rages. It served us kids well to be almost painfully "tuned in" to undercurrents and facial expressions.

So I've had associations with some pretty off-the-wall people at times, but mainly I've been able to keep the psychopaths away.

Well, except for maybe a boss or two.

[Mimosa]

11. YES.

I have met business men I'd describe more as 'sociopathic.' They sometimes have 'wall faces' and blunt short fingers, sometimes spatulate.

[Zorra]

13. The first time I ever laid eyes on Bush and Palin,

my gut screamed rattlesnake.

[dynasaw]

14. SELF-DELETED BY MEMBER

This message was self-deleted by dynasaw.

[pipi_k]

18. #19...

the calling card narcissist...

I actually knew one of those years ago. When someone says something that might sound like kidding (as in, "I believe in wife-beating")...believe it. Don't pretend to yourself that you didn't hear correctly. You did.

The first time this particular character put his hands around my throat was the last time he ever touched me. Ummm...no...I didn't kill him. I just never spoke to him again. Ever.


As for #9, the "soul mate"...when I first got involved with Mr Pip he seemed a little too good to be true. I was very suspicious. So I watched everything he did. I watched how he treated his mom. His daughters. And, the last test of all, I saw how his ex-wife and her family spoke of him. Well, he passed. His ex in-laws loved him. Had nothing but good things to say about him. We still see them at family functions.

People should never feel guilty about observing how their potential partners treat others, and how others speak of them.

[unblock]

17. i think it's a simple matter of how people draw their circles of signifiant and insignificant people

we all, more or less, have a sense the the people closest to us (family, in particular) matter the most and the people further away (strangers on the other side of the planet, perhaps) matter less. that's not to say we're cavalier or unsympathetic about anyone's suffering, but i'd die for my child without giving it a second thought, and i don't think i would for some random person i've never met. before i had a child, i would have (i was an emt and put myself at risk for strangers, so this is not an idle statement) but now that i do have a child, i can't see knowingly making him grow up without a father just so i could trade my life for the life of some stranger.



in any event, the rottenest of the senior executives see themselves, their family, and their board of directors as the significant people to be protected and provided for at all costs, and see their employees not as family but as parasites taking an unfair share of what rightfully belongs to the people that matter.

my point is that if you're on the inside of their circle, these people aren't psychopaths, sociopaths, or whatever you want to call it.

or perhaps it's a matter of semantics -- perhaps it's a sign of psychopathy to be able to view the people who work for you as outside your circle of significant people.

[gkhouston]

26. Some people have a circle so small it only encompasses themselves.

My best friend's ex was that way.

[unblock]

31. well, that's certainly true.

and maybe that's what true psychopathy is.

but i suspect that most senior executives aren't that way, it's just that their circle doesn't include you.
and moreover, most people can't help but incorporate people into their circle to some extent based on proximity and contact and so on, as most people do with co-workers, yet some senior executives seem to have a way of "using" people as employees for years or even decades without ever feeling the slightest connection.

[wickerwoman]

41. Mostly agree,

except there's lots of examples of people who treat their families like crap but are great humanitarians. How do you explain someone like John Lennon who pretty much completely wrote off his first kid but who cared a lot about peace and justice? Gandhi more or less abandoned his wife and spent decades sleeping with young girls (including his niece) to "test" himself against temptation. And there are scores of workaholic parents who devote all of their time to aid organisations or other causes at the expense of time with their kids.

I agree that people draw circles but I think we can't assume that the people who would logically be closest to someone are necessarily going to be in the circle.

[guardian]

19. A clue

Teabags taped to the brim of a hat might be a clue.

[Little Star]

22. The late Lee Atwater comes to mind......

Watch “Boogie Man: The Lee Atwater Story”. He certainly was glib and had superficial charm, grandiosity, manipulative behavior and lack of remorse.

He was a darling of Republicans, still is as a matter of fact.

His death was sad but he was a horrendous person!

[hifiguy]

27. Atwater's death was about as perfect an example of karma

as can be imagined. The man knowingly sowed poison, racism, lies and hatred all for his own personal gain. The evil he did and nourished came back on him. No sympathy whatsoever for that SHPOS.

[Little Star]

33. He was a nasty piece of work that's for sure. In the documentary..

they said he would have done the same for Democrats if they had given him a chance first. He didn't seem to have his own political agenda, he was all about Lee and making a name for himself.

[TuxedoKat]

34. Didn't he have some remorse at the end?

I thought he did and apologized to some people. I'll have to watch that movie.

[Little Star]

35. Yes he did have remorse or so he said. Day late and dollar short for that! n/t

[calimary]

40. Sheesh - no kidding!

How 'bout his little pals kkkarl rove and dubya?

:puke:

[Zoeisright]

23. If they're a repuke I sure can tell.

All repukes are psychopaths.

[backscatter712]

28. On C-SPAN and cable news, it's easy - look for the "R" next to the name! n/t

[WatsonT]

30. There was a great article that linked sociopathic behavior and politicians

I wish I could find it.

But basically the mindset of both is more or less indistinguishable.