Please explain to me why adultery is disqualifier for public office.

[Stinky The Clown]

"He should resign"

Really? Why?

If he broke other meaningful laws while committing adultery, that's a different story. But whenever one of these scandals comes up, the outrage, the pearl clutching, the STORY, is always about fucking, getting ready to fuck, cleaning up after the fuck, denying the fuck, taking issue with the style of the fuck. Et Cetera.

Paying illegal money to your aide to shut up about fucking his wife, is probably a crime. But no one is outraged about that. I guarantee - I absolutely guarantee - that more googling was done to see what the fuckee looked like than to look into how using the parents' money to pay off her husband was a crime.




On Edit: This question is **far** more broad than Weiner. The reference to Ensign is simply an example of what the American public finds important.

[qazplm]

1. its not the adultery

which he didn't technically commit, it's the vociferous lying, the snarky sarcasm he threw out to the media when he knew he was lying, it was the having folks out there defending him, analyzing the photo as a fake, the talk about being hacked, and the drawing out of this huge distraction.

Whether he can be re-elected is up to who he represents, the morality of his actions is up to his wife, but this isn't simply about "adultery," it is a little more complicated than that.

[RB TexLa]

3. Where is lying to the media a crime? Our little ethics choir is singing their hearts out over this

one.

[NeedleCast]

54. Love the fact that people are defending a politician lying his ass off

Boggles my mind.

[frylock]

74. oh but they all do it

:eyes:

[eridani]

81. Everyone has a right to lie about their personal lives, even politicians

They don't have the right to lie about matters affecting public policy--an entirely different matter.

[hifiguy]

90. Ding, ding, ding

Bull's eye.

[RainDog]

92. do you defend Obama?

he lied his ass off.

about things like war and constitutional rights that have been violated.

...but of course, that's not as important as some guy sending a picture of his dick to someone and, of course this has a HUGE impact on your life.. right?

I mean, what matters more - the 4th amendment to the constitution or a dick picture?

[WinkyDink]

58. "The media" are merely the messengers to the public.

[shraby]

17. The media lies to the public. Wassa difference?

[spanone]

28. no crime

[krabigirl]

44. Yeah, but the media lies pretty often..but that's ok, right?

[WinkyDink]

60. Do you defend both, or neither? Can't have it two ways.

[notesdev]

2. It's not the adultery

it's the lying and false accusations

had he been up front and dealt with it truthfully, he would have made it through this intact

[HopeHoops]

4. Only if you're a Democrat.

[palmtree guy]

5. lying

if he lies about that what else will he lie about? it is all about trust, and if he does not have the trust he does not desrve the office.

[pscot]

35. Shouldn't that be up to his constituents to decide?

He'll be on the ballot in 16 months.

[WinkyDink]

62. That is presumably what AW is pondering.

[smirkymonkey]

55. What politician DOESN'T Lie???

He just got caught in one about something relatively insignificant compared to what is going on in the rest of the world.

[Cid_B]

6. It is the violation of trust...

Saw a recent poll that said 92% of Americans think that cheating on your spouse is immoral. This comes at a time when maybe a 1 of 3 are cheating or have cheated.

It pisses people off.

That plus everything in #1. Weiner has always been a smug condescending guy and he took it to a new level in the week prior to this debacle.

[JackRiddler]

75. Really? Did Weiner promise you a no-Tweetporn program?

Your poll data says at least 30 percent of Americans are hypocrites with feelings of guilt, and another 60 percent should mind their own fucking business.

[LiberalLoner]

7. And it wasn't even adultery, it was just flirting. Maybe quite a few women

would be totally outraged by what he did if he was their husband, but you know...I wouldn't have been. I give my husband LOTS of privacy regarding the internet and I do not go snooping.

I trust him to stay with me until death, and if he talks dirty with someone or looks at some nice pictures and jerks off...meh...good for him. I don't care.

If he leaves me or stops loving me, okay, THEN I care.

But human sexuality is a very dark and murky thing, and who among us can count themselves as "pure"?

There is a great blog on Daily Kos that I have to go get and post here because I think it is extremely wise and relevant.

[LiberalLoner]

9. Here is the link to the blog on Daily Kos, please, please everyone read it...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/08/983168/-A-Gay-Mans-Perspective-on-Anthony-Weiner-(Updated)

[lumberjack_jeff]

34. Excellent essay.

I think gay men are more likely to understand the psychology of men than anyone else. Straight men are too busy pretending to understand women to spend any time attempting to understand themselves.

[LiberalLoner]

36. I think this essay describes the sexuality of all humans quite well - men, women,

gay, straight, bi, what-have-you. This applies to ALL of us, surely.

[lumberjack_jeff]

39. I don't know about that.

There wouldn't be so much garment rending about this if we all shared one psychology, e.g. "I don't understand the stupidity".

[LiberalLoner]

47. Well, sure, there are some differences in psychology, but I also

know of a whole lot of women who deny they ever masturbate. :eyes:

I think many or even all of us lie to ourselves (and of course others) about our sexuality all the time.
I think there is so much shame in our culture about sex that we can't help but lie to ourselves and others.

There was a study done that showed women experienced arousal while looking at photos of nude men, nude women, various sexual photos. They experienced arousal at ALL of the photos, unlike men, who tended to experience arousal only at SOME of the photos.

But the women ALL denied they had felt any arousal whatsoever.

Were they deliberately and consciously lying to the researchers? I don't think so, really...I think they had been trained by society to lie to themselves.

We women especially are bombarded with messages to look sexy but don't you dare act sexy or feel sexual feelings.

[eridani]

82. Long ago in a consciousness raising group far away--

--one woman said both that she was frigid and also that she masturbated. This puzzled everyone else. Someone asked her "When you masturbate, why do you stop?" TShe replied, "Oh, THAT!" Given the internal nature of female equipment, it is perfectly possible for women to have all kinds of orgasms and still think that they aren't doing anything sexual. Men find that impossible to ignore.

[smokey nj]

37. Thanks for posting this. It describes my feelings about the situation perfectly.

[closeupready]

14. Great post. Can you do me a favor and please find the link to that Daily Kos thread?

I would be very interested in reading it. Thank you! :hi:

[LiberalLoner]

21. I posted the link to the blog, isn't that the page that also has the thread?

I'm sorry for being dense, I'm not as computer-savvy as I should be.

[closeupready]

41. Great thanks - I think we posted at the same time.

:hi:

[whathehell]

25. "Just flirting"?....Oh I don't know..

I imagine sending nude photos of your junk in addition to talking dirty goes

goes beyond the parameters of "flirting" for most, but hey, what do I know?:eyes:

The big issue, though, is that Weiner, unlike your husband I assume, is a PUBLIC person.

That, plus the lying to everyone, party leaders included, sums it up for me.

[JitterbugPerfume]

8. if all he did was twitter his junk

he didn't commit adultery

This is a tempest in a teapot

[surrealAmerican]

91. I agree.

It's not adultery, it's pornography.

[meow mix]

10. lying and cheating. i dont even want to play monopoly with someone like that

let alone have them control a portion of govt and that goes for both sides of course.

[mysuzuki2]

11. Is it so wrong to lie to the media about something

that's really nobody's business in the first place?

[KansDem]

12. It's his politics

In 2007, Sen. Vitter had kinky sex with a prostitute and lied about it, but there were no calls for him to resign when he was discovered. He's still in the Senate. In 2010, conservatives even gave him a standing ovation at a conference.

In 2011, Rep. Weiner had an Internet "affair" and lied about it, and, when discovered, there are now calls for him to resign.

Hypocrisy? Of course, but apparently liberals are held to a higher standard than conservatives.

I don't understand it myself...:shrug:

[Mugweed]

13. It's just the typical republican double standard

Rudy 9/11-iani and Newt Gingrich are heroes to the right-wing idiots. Those guys are adulterous, fake family-value, hypocritical scum. Yet time after time they are unquestionably supported by the right. The calls from the right for Wiener to resign are simply partisan bullshit. The calls from anybody on the left for him to resign are just pathetic. Fuck Pelosi. So an investigation of Bush and Cheney was off the table, but Anthony Wiener is fair game? Who's side are you on?

[FLPanhandle]

15. Not Adultery, but Stupidity should be a disqualifier for public office

The stupidity of his actions are more of disqualifiers than the pictures themselves.

He's now proven he is an idiot of the highest magnitude.

[hobbit709]

67. Then about 95% of R's and half the D's should be disqualified using that criterion

[lynne]

16. Tweeting pics of your penis =

- too stupid to hold public office, IMO.

[tularetom]

18. Please explain to me how posting a picture of your johnson is adultery

The double standard is actually even worse than you describe.

What he did was really sort of creepy but it wasn't adultery. What Ensign did was also creepy but it was adultery compounded by illegal payoffs to keep the thing quiet.

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. Because people can blackmail you and because people have their

own concept of ethics and morality. The closer you match up to their concept of perfection, the easier it is to get elected, because there will be no surprises.

[raccoon]

26. Exactly, it makes the person vulnerable to blackmail. nt

[hobbit709]

68. Can't be blackmailed if you won't let yourself be blackmailed.

[RufusTFirefly]

20. Even more important question: Why are we even having this conversation?

Remember the uproar over George H. W. Bush's longtime mistress, Jennifer Fitzgerald?

Me neither.

[JackRiddler]

76. So we won't talk about Fukushima, Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya, Greece, banks or the austerity program.

Among other things.

[eridani]

84. Or Ike and Kay, or Jack and Marilyn, or Franklin and Lucy, or Warren and Nan? n/t

[seabeyond]

22. behavior, choices we make, influence how a person sees another. that is in all things

we know this. it helps to influence our very own choices. because of expectation, it helps us to be a better person.

when we see someone that is willing to hurt others thru their own selfishness, it opens the door for a person to think less of the other. not be as impressed. not respect them as much.

that is a reality

when we watch a grown man act so irresponsibility and creepy in personal life, respect diminishes.

or if a person chose to not shower, or dress appropriately, or use manners, or park their car within lines, or or or

i am not calling for the man to resign. he has limited, reduced, eliminated his efectiveness.

that is the concern for people on du and other democrats

[Sherman A1]

23. one word

"Judgement" or perhaps the lack of it.

[Stuckinthebush]

24. Why is this so hard to understand?

His perversions have nothing to do with most peoples anger at Weiner. He never preached abstinence or piety. He never pushed bills that were based in morality. He can dress up like an anime character and run around in leather chaps for all most of us care. We can psychoanalyze his behavior but in the end it really doesn't flippin' matter.

It comes down to this:

He looked into the camera on numerous occasions and lied to us to save his ass. That makes him a turd in my book.

Should he resign? No. He didn't break any laws. His district can determine at the next election if he represents them well.

Did he hurt the progressive cause? Absolutely. He can forever be labeled as untrustworthy by his opponents and that diminishes his voice.

So forget about the perverted crap and leave that to his wife and therapist. I and many others, however, will look at him as a fool and as a less than trustworthy representative from now on. He screwed up royally. He should have said, "it is me and my damn business. Fuck off.". But he chose to lie instead.

He's a liability now for the movement I hold dear. He was a massive asset and let his selfishness get in the way of his working for the greater good.

This has nothing to do with sex anymore. It's about honesty and his ability to do his job.

[PeaceNikki]

27. How many voters have you offended, Weiner? Let me count the ways...

He's pissed off:
* Those who are offended by the adultery
* Those who are appalled at the lying
* Those who are flabbergasted at his fucking stupidity
* Those who are angry that he's changed the entire discussion of politics in this country

Everyone with some combination of the above

[tularetom]

29. The only thing I have a problem with is the apology to Brainfart

[PeaceNikki]

30. Oh right, add that to my list, too.

[frylock]

77. he should have apologized!

he pretty much accused breitbart of making the whole thing up to cover his ass. i don't give two shits about breitbart, but the shit weiner did shows him to be completely untrustworthy.

[eridani]

85. It is the media that changed the discussion of politics

Where was the extended outrage over Vitter the Shitter?

[slackmaster]

31. Obviously it's not, but why should anyone trust someone who lies to his or her spouse?

It's a character thing.

[krabigirl]

45. It is none of our business.

[slackmaster]

66. Once I know about it, it becomes inseparable from everything else I use to evaluate a public figure

Failure to keep potentially embarrassing personal information confidential indicates a character flaw.

A man who has skeletons in his closet and can't keep that fact secret becomes vulnerable to blackmail.

[LanternWaste]

32. I imagine many people believe that...

I imagine many people believe that one's sexual dalliances have a direct impact on one's job performance.

One of the best salesmen in my office is a real dog to his wife, but also one of the best salesmen... :shrug:

[whathehell]

42. Yeah...except salesmen aren't high on the food chain of public trust either.

Maybe we have too many "salesmen" in our public life

and not enough statesmen.

[LanternWaste]

73. Again, job performance is evaluated on, well... job performance.

Again, job performance is evaluated on, well... job performance. Performance as a husband or a father figure is evaluated by wives, daughters and sons.

However I do realize the visceral (albeit irrelevant) satisfaction we may get when denigrating the careers of others to better make an implication.

[whathehell]

79. Um..Sorry, but Weiner's "performance" is being evaluated

in a manner you may not agree with

but will most likely have to LIVE with.

[Scout]

33. post #24 best in this and all the other threads! n/t

[marions ghost]

38. This is NOT adultery

it is a sexual compulsion, not adultery. This kind of exhibitionism rarely involves acting on any level with the target. However it DOES say something not so hot about Weiner. Targeting women to show them his appendage that he thinks is so impressive over and over is not exactly a mature expression of sex or love. It is adolescent, creepy, UNcool & SELF-destructive behavior. It's the thrill of risking, of being naughty, a sex addiction problem. It is fetishistic (eg. foot-sniffers and diaper-wearers).

This is also NOT about the lying. Everyone would lie about a shameful secret coming out in public where it could kill a career and/or marriage. Especially if the individual first has to deal with the denial that he is even doing it (which I think is true in his case). Compulsions like this are also not so much "selfish" as they are about self-loathing. A good psychologist could help him sort it out.

But considering what we have seen in government, this is NOT a reason for someone to resign. How do you compare a sexual fetish behavior (which may or not constitute a misdemeanor--we'd need to know more) with crimes against humanity? Weiner deserves a second chance. It's a humbling experience that he could come back better than ever from. He could recover from this addiction.

IMO people shouldn't buy into the Rethuglican destruction of Weiner.

[JuniperLea]

46. Just try telling that to his wife...

Or any woman in her situation. It is adultury... and the emotional suffering of the offended party is exactly the same. There are plenty of reasons why Wiener shouldn't resign... this isn't one of them.

He didn't break the law. That is the bottom line. The rest is between him and his wife.

[marions ghost]

50. She will be very upset, sure

but if she is smart she will see that he has an affliction that needs help & at least give him a chance to do that. He does not get "jollies" from this behavior. He gets temporary relief from a debilitating obsession. Adultery is acting on the urge to have actual sex with others. Adultery normally involves sexual satisfaction. I think in this day of cyber addictions you do need to make a distinction about what is adultery. Weiner has an addiction that has little to do with sex and a lot to do with self-sabotage. It is very inward-focused. Reflects huge insecurities, neurotic.

Sure it's between him and his wife (and their psychotherapist). I hope she is more understanding than people who want to destroy him for this.

BUT the thing that bothers me about this behavior is that there is a predatory aspect to it. He knows only "certain" women will respond, and he looks for them. Most men over 20 or so do not want to send pix of their cock to strangers. It's not about real sex, which is what most young men are after. These kinds of adolescent fantasies are not healthy in older men.

Edwards, Clinton, Ensign = classic adultery (and perhaps sex addiction). Weiner's problem is classic exhibitionism. I would bet that Weiner has NO intention to leave his wife, IF she can understand this and get treatment for him. I would even bet that he truly loves her. Their marriage is getting a big test. Have no idea how they will handle it.

Ain't adultery. It's a mental and physical sex addict problem. But you & I don't have to agree...if anything yours is a more widespread opinion, especially among women. I think this behavior is less threatening to the marriage than true adultery. Still, not a nice or healthy outlet. Trust me, he wants to stop doing this. There is NO joy in it.

thanx for chatting. mg

[JuniperLea]

69. I think you're splitting hairs... eom

[JoePhilly]

If Weiner had actually "split some hairs' ... then

it would be adultery.

Unless the new definition of adultery is "Any sex act that occurs physically or in ones mind".

Or, I guess we could use the word "covet" from the 10 Commandments.

[eridani]

86. The only reason my husband doesn't do anything sex-realated online--

--it that he is a retired computer security professional. He certainly likes the off-line sort. That doesn't bother me--my porn preferences are mostly verbal rather than visual.

[drpepper67]

40. It speaks to character. Are you trustworthy? Do you keep your word?

Do you have an personality disorders?

No one is perfect.

Some are held to a higher standard, and rightly so.

[Scottybeamer70]

43. If we are going to throw out every congresscritter who has

ever lied, then it's going to be a pretty empty chamber, I think.
I'm betting most of them lie to some of their constituents on
almost a daily basis. The government has lied to the American
people for so long that most don't even know the difference
anymore. The lying by the govt. is now even more out in the
open. They don't even try to hide it anymore. On the contrary,
some of them seem to brag about it......WMD's anyone?

[marions ghost]

51. right

by throwing Weiner under the bus, we will NOT clean up the lying problem of American politicians.

It's misplaced anger among Liberals. Anger because the important issues, everything we care about, are not addressed.

[felix_numinous]

48. Sometimes it's wise to step back from the situation

and examine what the result of forcing someone to resign would be. Some resignations would be like shooting ourselves in the foot.

The only example I can think of: Let's say someone very competent and a champion of human rights was caught having affairs, and by his/her resignation a despot was put in power. We have to weigh and balance our decisions against the alternatives.

Another example is if you discover a family member or friend is having a (nonviolent and non criminal) affair, would you put up signs all over the neighborhood shaming not only this person but whole families, children included, or would you handle it in a different way?

This is VERY different than say, a person whose whole persona and program is based on their purity and they go around condemning others and passing laws to punish others for what they themselves are doing. Their hypocrisy is in direct conflict with their purpose. Yet they too need their day in court.

But simple infidelity without rape, children, violence or other crimes should be handled quickly and as privately as possible, and assurances be put in place not to enable this behavior in the future--ALONG with public disclosure, because a public office demands transparency. Then the voters can decide.

Someone in public office is REPRESENTATIVE of how individuals are treated, they should neither be above the law nor be held to different standards than the citizenry. That is where we have wandered off the path, I believe. It is because there are no courts involved, people are shamed and publicly humiliated on a regular basis without trial, without legal process of any kind--and this is a VERY serious breach of ethics few people have even noticed! NOt to mention the more serious crimes that go on without consequences of any kind, which have muddied the legal waters beyond recognition.

The trials, the legal process is designed to assure that innocent people are not unfairly accused of crimes, it is not perfect, but it is a world of difference to condemn someone without even a day in court. Especially now when the preemptive war/instant justice mentality seem to be the current practice of the land. It is vigilante justice.

We live in a voyeuristic/surveillance society, and now anyone can be caught on tape, video, surveillance camera just screwing up or making a fool out of oneself. Public shaming is one of the MOST POWERFUL tools of control out there. Period. And we have a system in place that can invade your privacy as we speak.

Yes, I agree there is something very disturbing about how preemptive justice has replaced our legal process, both in private behaviors and internationally with the preemptive war mentality.

edited to add- Yes, I totally get that Weiner admitted his actions, but it was because our surveillance society has gotten so all pervasive. Lots to think about here!

[awoke_in_2003]

49. For the same reason...

being an atheist is a disqualifier- we are a backwards nation. We are a first world power with third world sensibilities.

[spin]

53. I suspect a lot of politicians are atheists or at least agnostic ...

but will never admit it.

[awoke_in_2003]

70. I wouldn't doubt if

if a high percentage of Americans in general were at least agnostic. They either don't want to admit to themselves there is no afterlife, or don't want to face ridicule.

[spin]

80. Good point. However there is also a high percentage who believe ...

that the world is 6000 years old because that is what the Bible says.

Young Earth creationism

Young Earth creationism (YEC) is a form of creationism that asserts the Heavens, Earth, and all life on Earth was created by direct acts of the Abrahamic God during a relatively short period, sometime between 5,700 and 10,000 years ago.<1> Its adherents are Christians and Jews<2> who believe that God created the Earth in six 24-hour days, taking a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative as a basis for their beliefs.<3><4>

The scientific consensus, supported by a 2006 statement by 68 national and international science academies, is that it is evidence-based fact that the universe has existed for around 15 billion years, that the Earth was formed about 4.5 billion years ago with life appearing at least 2.5 billion years ago.<5> Scientific evidence has never contradicted these facts which have been established by observations and experimental results derived independently from many scientific disciplines including cosmology, geology, evolutionary biology and paleontology.<5> Although many Young Earth creationists (YECs) are active in the development of creation science, an endeavor that holds that the events associated with supernatural creation can be evidenced and modeled through an interpretation of the scientific method, creation science has been judged unscientific in both conception and methodology.<6>

Anywhere from 10 to 45% of adults in the United States say they believe in YEC, depending on the poll.<7> According to a Gallup poll in December 2010, around 40% of Americans believe in YEC, rising to over 50% among Republicans but falling quickly as the level of education increases; only 22% of respondents with postgraduate degrees believed compared with 47% of those with a high school education or less.<8>emphasis added
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism

[awoke_in_2003]

71. I wouldn't doubt it

if a high percentage of Americans in general were at least agnostic. They either don't want to admit to themselves there is no afterlife, or don't want to face ridicule.

[Dappleganger]

52. Everyone who commits adultery LIES. It's unavoidable, pretty much.

Even sweet, upstanding, christian married women with adorable little children who live in nice homes and drive expensive cars.

Trust me, adultery without some kind of lying is pretty much nonexistent.

[Stinky The Clown]

57. Every politician lies, whether an adulterer or not.

In fact, I'd say there are far more liars than adulterers.

[Dappleganger]

63. +10000

Politicians get elected not because of what they've done but because they tell us what we want to hear.

[ejpoeta]

87. well look at them... they change their position on policies more often then they change their

suit. i mean look at just the recent candidates with the republican kill medicare plan. they are all over the place. it's like the weather. don't like what one guy thinks about something, wait a week he'll change his tune.

[WinkyDink]

56. It isn't. But when evidence is thrust, heh, in our collective face, some take offense.

Edwards's child moved his affair up to another level. Or down.

And Anthony's pix did likewise.

[librechik]

59. I think it's partially a generational thing. A lot of folks just don't "get" social networking

and they are prepared to hate those "youngsters" who use (or abuse) it.

[felix_numinous]

64. Wow I agree

-so many people are being 'busted' because of the accessibility of private information. I am waiting for the day a virtual crime can be completely manufactured, and someone destroyed with it. I wonder if we are there yet.

[Rebubula]

61. If they cannot be faithful and honest to thier spouse...

...how the hell can I assume that they will be faithful and honest with me?

It is about trust and I cannot trust someone that would knowingly hurt the person closest to them.

[marions ghost]

65. People who do this don't mean to hurt others

--they really can't help the obsessive behavior that has become habitual. But yes, it does create a problem of trust, similar to when an alcoholic tells you he won't drink again but he does. This has to be controlled like any other addiction and is debilitating to everyone concerned. But it's not done to intentionally hurt. It's not even a conscious "mistake." It is a compulsion with negative consequences. The afflicted get a temporary "high" like a drug.

Doesn't mean it's OK. But it's likely he's been instantly "cured."

[styersc]

72. Liars cannot be trusted.

he looked at us through the camera and made a fool out of everyone of us who supported and defended him. He is filth and worse than that he is now a useless joke. He had been a champion and fighter, now he can recite the Gettysburg address and the only possible reaction is laughter. He is useless to progressivism.

[lynne]

78. Adultery isn't. Narcissistic stupidity certainly should be -

- If you're too stupid to know that broadcasting a picture of your penis to a public environment is a bad idea, you're just too stupid to hold public office.

[quaker bill]

83. It isn't.

However it is probably an easy way to lose an election. Many people are qualified, only a few serve.

[cbdo2007]

88. Most people don't even see adultery as a disqualifier for dating someone....

so I can understand people with your opinion on this, though I can't understand your reasoning behind it.

Basically if they are lying to their wife, then they are probably lying to me. If they are sneaking around on her, they are probably sneaking around on me.

In the same way that I wouldn't want my sister to date someone who cheated on their wife with 6 different women, I also would rather not have that person creating laws that are meant to improve society because they seem to be focused on other activities rather than helping people.

[hack89]

89. Adultery requires serial lying and deception

how can serial liars be trusted?