Spitzer Schools Coulter: "Your story would be nice if it were true, but it's not.

[kpete]

Elliot Spitzer: "Your story would be nice if it were true, but it's not. The reality is, if you look at the economics, and you look at what the impact is of both credit to marginal rates, government spending, the incentives you create for job creation, Keynes has been right at every turn. In terms of understanding, if you actually sat down with or either were a business person making capital allocation decisions, hiring, you'd understand the way you look at is your return. Right now there is a demand crisis of enormous volume. That's why we need to create demand in this economy so we can generate things that we can buy."

Ann Coulter: "And Obama's been following your policies and that is why we have a crisis."

Elliot Spitzer: "The executives are sitting on two trillion dollars of capital. The key to getting that capital back into the economy, to hire people, is demand for the products we made. There is not a whole lot of ambiguity about that."

MORE:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/12/983702/-LOL!-Elliot-Spitzer-SCHOOLS-Ann-Coulter-on-what-Reality-is?via=siderec

[mahina]

1. Big fat K and R

for that one!

[napi21]

2. I watched that panel this AM. Elliott gave her several different jabs.

He also tried to explain to Annie that businesses aren't hiring because there's no demand for their products, and currently, there's only one group that can create demand and that's the Fed. Gov't. Extending unemployment indefinately and invsting in the infrastructure is the only way to get $$ in people's pockets and thus create demand.

[Heretofor]

72. Maybe...

But where is the Fed government going to get the money from?

Those businesses need to start creating jobs. That way we don't have to print more money.

[abelenkpe]

78. By raising the top marginal tax rate

for awhile so that the wealthy pay a tiny bit more
Reducing defense spending/auditing all contractors
Stop giving subsidies to oil companies currently enjoying record profits for a few years
Enact single payer so companies in the US can better compete with companies overseas who aren't burdened with providing health care benefits for employees because they have universal health care
etc etc

[rurallib]

84. Yep - I would say the wealthy could pay much more

close bases around the world, out of all our wars.

[RaleighNCDUer]

83. Businesses don't "create jobs".

Businesses take on more people when there is enough demand for their product to make it necessary. It is the demand that drives the economy, not the businesses.

Right now, people have no money. They are not spending, therefore there is no demand for products (demand meaning both a need and a capability of purchasing the product). Only when people both need and can pay for a product is there demand for that product.

So, if the government uses its deep pockets to create jobs, the people with those jobs will want to buy stuff. When people want to buy, businesses will create even more jobs as they provide goods and services to meet the demand.

Instead, the government is freezing government pay, cutting positions, and increasing the unemployment - REDUCING demand in the economy.

[Heretofor]

102. The problem there...

Is that all the government spending either just moves money around or prints more, devaluing the currency.

We need to know why businesses aren't hiring people if they have the money, which seems to be more of the case. If they hired people, those people would have money to spend as well. Should we look into asking businesses what incentives they need to hire people, or just take more from American people and businesses or print it out?

I would say that the better solution is through the private market.

[RaleighNCDUer]

103. And why on earth would they hire anyone if they don't need that person?

It's a feedback loop - there is no demand for products, therefore they lay people off, reducing demand for products, necessitating further layoffs, eliminating the demand for products, necessitating plant closing. Where in there is there any rationale for them hiring more people? To make product that will sit unsold in the warehouse? The ONLY incentive to hire more people is a need FOR those people. Giving them another tax break does nothing to increase the need for workers.

There are two market-based solutions:

Demand higher wages for those workers they have, increasing the spending power of the workforce. For decades we've been driving wages down, rather than up, and the result is a workforce that can't afford to buy what they produce.

Tax the crap out of businesses so they must re-invest in the company for tax write-offs: whether it is in increasing pay for the workers, or re-tooling production lines, or putting money into green tech and reducing the company's carbon footprint, if they don't put the profits they are just sitting on to work, the government will take it and put it to work on national infrastructure. It is not just a 'coincidence' that the lowest business tax rate in history coincides with the worst recession since the great depression.

"... all the government spending either just moves money around or prints more, devaluing the currency."

Pure unadulturated nonsense. That is a RW corporate talking point, and is patently untrue. Did building the interstate system just move money around? Or did that taxpayer funded investment make the economy boom across the country as suddenly it took trucks three days to deliver a load that on the old roads took six? Even the black hole which is the MIC provides tens of thousands of high-tech jobs.

Starving the government strangles the economy, if you'll pardon the mixed metaphor.

The private market is not the solution - it is the problem.

[Heretofor]

104. Spending...

The infrastructure argument is one of the few that I feel that works, particularly with the interstate system...but that hurt a LOT of small towns when it was built because they got bypassed and all the intersections got turned into the same thing (how many mom-and-pop restaurants and hotels are on those anymore?). Good and bad there.

Tax breaks for re-investing is a nice idea, and may be the best way to promote what SHOULD be occurring rather than punishing people for simply making money. I would add doing something that would encourage the wealthy to bring US dollars back from tax havens overseas (rather than punishing them), but I know that idea is near anathema around here.

However, just giving money to someone without them producing something (like a product or labor) won't work long term, and it hasn't - we still have a "war on poverty" and near-record numbers on welfare in a system that is very similar to how it originated.

However, what you are essentially suggesting with your last line is that there should be no private market for anything. It's too blanket a statement. TRUE free market economies (not the corporatism we have with companies that should have been allowed/made to fail, restructure, or reorganize) have always been more prosperous than otherwise.

[napi21]

90. I still say the best answer is the Feds borrow the $$ to rebuild

our broken infrastructure. That would creat jobs, give people money to spend, hich in turn would increase demand for products uncreasing employment...and the boll keeps rolling on. Someone has to increase demand and the only way to do that is to get money in peoples pockets.

[spanone]

3. there is no reason for her to appear on any panel, anywhere

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. That's what I was going to say

Why is this piece of human garbage given any air time on any panel? :wtf:

Spitzer should have just spit on her. She is so vile.

[chervilant]

80. Oooooh, yes,

I can just see it now: "Oops! Did my indignant spittle breach the sanctity of your personal space?! No? Come a little closer..."

This mendacious malevolence deserves far worse. Any rational adult should immediately reorient when forced to be proximal to her--"turn your back on Ann" should be our mantra.

[CoffeeCat]

11. No kidding...

...she is a disgraceful, bitter pill. I am embarrassed to be a human being, when I see
the wretched creatures that serve as authorities and spokespeople. Ann Coulter, and so
many like her, are the scum of our species. But there they sit...under the spotlights.

It really is embarrassing.

[chervilant]

81. Well said. n/t

[rhett o rick]

13. It is a measure how bad things are. nm

[Enthusiast]

26. How bad and one-sided things are.....nt

[Enthusiast]

24. You're right of course.

But the PTB make sure that even the most ill-informed Republican is given great deference in any discussion.

[malaise]

28. Ditto n/t

[Solomon]

40. It's for her to sell books.

That is, if you can call them that.

[damyank913]

45. That's it! She's the Queen of Cruel...

Way outta her league intellectually versus Spitzer.

[QED]

51. I was so disappointed that Zakaria had her on.

She's rude, stupid, and just a waste of oxygen. There is no possibility of an intelligent discussion with Coulter on a panel. Zakaria has been the best of the Sunday talk shows - I sure hope this doesn't mark the beginning of a slide. What was he thinking?

[October]

59. Really! Why on earth is she given a platform?

[ckimmy57]

64. Took the words

right out of my mouth.

[Plucketeer]

67. That's my first thought

And really - any further reasoning about her being a part of this discussion is unnecessary! The only difference between Ann and a maggot is that Ann can produce sounds that mimic the english language. Intellectually, she's dead even with a maggot. :puke:

[DesertDiamond]

71. Right on! Why as she being presented as some kind of expert on the economy? Right wing slander is

her only expertise.

[Cannikin]

73. I disagree. Each time she appears on a panel, whether it be this or the View..

her true colors tend to show to even her own fans.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

4. Spitzer Should Have Begun Every Sentence To Her With This Phrase

"Ann, you ignorant slut." :-)

[keroro gunsou]

12. great minds think alike

that's exactly what i thought when i saw the post subject header :evilgrin:

[PhillySane]

5. What the hell is Ann Coulter

doing on a panel discussion about the economy?

[radiclib]

6. In fact, what is she doing on a panel with sentient beings?

:wtf:

[Sherman A1]

17. Agreed

:toast:

[nxylas]

30. To give Spitzer someone to pwn?

That probably wasn't the intent, but it seems to have turned out that way.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[moondust]

8. I turned it off when I saw Coulter. n/t

[Brother Buzz]

9. After a pleasant hiatus, Coulter has begun popping up all over the place

Has she got a new book coming down the pike?

[glowing]

15. Yep... new book.. that's why she's out and about again.

[RamboLiberal]

91. New book - Demonic: How the Liberal Mob Is Endangering America

The demon is a mob, and the mob is demonic. The Democratic Party activates mobs, depends on mobs, coddles mobs, publicizes and celebrates mobs—it is the mob. Sweeping in its scope and relentless in its argument, Demonic explains the peculiarities of liberals as standard groupthink behavior. To understand mobs is to understand liberals.

In her most provocative book to date, Ann Coulter argues that liberals exhibit all the psychological characteristics of a mob, for instance:

Liberal Groupthink: “The same mob mentality that leads otherwise law-abiding people to hurl rocks at cops also leads otherwise intelligent people to refuse to believe anything they haven’t heard on NPR.”

Liberal Schemes: “No matter how mad the plan is—Fraternité, the ‘New Soviet Man,’ the Master Race, the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, Building a New Society, ObamaCare—a mob will believe it.”

http://www.amazon.com/Demonic-How-Liberal-Endangering-America/dp/0307353486/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308008581&sr=8-1

[Manifestor_of_Light]

14. Spitzer is brilliant.

Kathleen parker left the show because she couldn't argue with him.

Of course she had no facts on her side.

[Winglessnews]

16. I like him more and more lately

Coulter, who I actually happen to really like, can make her kooky arguments on Red Eye or >insert Fox show here< and get away with it and come off sounding wonderfully clever... But Spitzer is brilliant, you can't get away with that nonsense in the presence of someone who actually knows what they're talking about. I don't know if any of you caught his lecture at MIT on CSPAN2, but it was just astonishing to hear him speak about economics uninterrupted without the "TV persona" -- he deserves way more credit than he gets.

[BlueMTexpat]

18. Ann Coulter come off as "sounding wonderfully clever ..."?

:rofl: :spray:

In what parallel universe?

[eShirl]

21. I know, right?

:rofl:

[paulk]

39. in the parallel universe of Fox

as the poster states.

[Plucketeer]

69. OR......

under the influence of WHICH controlled substances??? :crazy:

[ThoughtCriminal]

95. Perpendicular

She's even considered strange in the Universes where Spock will have a beard.

[tblue37]

19. WHY do you like her? nt

[Ramulux]

20. What?

How can you like Ann Coulter? Are you unaware of all the horrible inflammatory shit she has said?

[PCIntern]

25. Wow...

:popcorn:

[Enthusiast]

27. "Coulter, who I actually happen to really like"

:wtf:

[cascadiance]

88. The answer is that he has six posts here...

Trying to give Coulter some "backdoor" support... The Spitzer praise was his cover to not appear too much like a troll.

He'll get exposed soon enough.

[Enthusiast]

101. Yeah

I thought the same thing. Usually they don't make such a major screw-up like admitting they like Coulter. I mean, the only people that like Coulter are ideologically right wingers.

[Bluebear]

29. 'Coulter, who I actually happen to really like' - Wow.

[valerief]

32. If you like Coulter, why are you at DU? nt

[obxhead]

33. Wow.

Enjoy your visit.

:popcorn:

[Javaman]

36. The frontal lobe of the average human doesn't full develop until the age of 25...

the frontal lobe is mostly in charge of judgment.

you are 18.

[HughBeaumont]

42. Uh, Ann Coulter is a highly-paid bigoted liar.

She's employed by a propaganda outlet disguised as a news channel filled with other professional partisan carnival barkers posing as journalists.

Love for shitbag Republicans isn't welcome on DU.

[ooglymoogly]

54. +1

though I think Coulter is a bullhorned numskull.

[Plucketeer]

70. Aha!

so YOU love her as well! "Bullhorned Numbskull" is a complimant for Anal Annie. ;)

[Cass]

22. Coulter has no business being on the same panel as Spitzer and I'm dispappointed in Zakaria for

including her. I shut it off when she appeared. Any show that puts her on a panel isn't interested in having an intelligent discussion of issues, imo.

[cascadiance]

87. Fareed should have brought on Ravi Batra, also of Indian heritage...

... who'd add FAR MORE intelligent commentary on economics to a panel like that than Coulter. Guess they couldn't find too many intelligent people to speak for "supply side" economics to make it a "debate".

[Enthusiast]

23. No, Obama has not been following his policies.

And that is the problem.

[tomm2thumbs]

31. Ann Coulter: the most useless two words I've said all day

[TomClash]

34. I am glad to see this view in the MSM

I have been advocating it since the crisis started.

Spitzer is spot on.

[Vinca]

35. If I ever click onto a channel and see Coulter, I immediately change channels.

She's the queen of the hatemongers and I don't know why any show would have her on.

[chervilant]

82. Well,

in all fairness, she vies with Malkin for that dubious distinction.

[Javaman]

37. Reading the transcript, coulter is nothing more than a talking point regurgitation machine.

meh. she's a has been. she's trying like hell to be relevant again.

By the way, how come she's not in prison for voter fraud?

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Overseas]

41. K&R!

We tried Supply Side for far too long and it crashed our economy when Bush cut taxes on the rich.

We really need demand side economics for a while. Jobs jobs jobs. To repair the infrastructure that Supply Siders allowed to decay because they were so loathe to create any more public sector jobs.

[Marblehead]

43. she is put on the tv to keep

the left right paradigms going.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. Ann Coulter, whose latest book against liberals is called "Demonic"?

She is either evil or mentally ill. Maybe both.

The Fox News fanboys who inexplicably have crushes on her don't need any more encouragement to hate liberals. Now we're "demonic"?

[JHB]

49. There's usually a hidden truth in her books, or at least on the covers...

I see the book on the shelf, and right there on the cover it says:
"Ann Coulter: Traitor", or for the new one,
"Ann Coulter: Demonic", and I think, "yes, she is."

Either way, it's just more Fantasy Hippie Punching Porn. "Letters to Penthouse" for Wingnuts. Beating A Straw Man For Complete F***ing Shitheaded Dopes. The Handy Guide to How To Use A Pile Of Bullshit As A Smoke Machine.

[dana_b]

68. LOL

literally your post made me laugh hard. Thank you! it's all true too!

[JHB]

94. All part of the service.

and thanks.

[Atypical Liberal]

46. I'm not sure how to interpret "demand"

I currently "demand" a lot of things, in that there are many things I would currently like to buy but I don't have the disposable income with which to buy them.

[ejpoeta]

65. Demand is.... if people have money to spend, then that is demand.

but they don't have money if there are no jobs. that is why the fed gov is the only one right now who can create that demand because just giving money to rich people does not create jobs. putting money into the hands of the unemployed and people who need it in the form of food stamps etc or putting people to work on projects like fixing bridges or roads or other infrastructure or expanding broadband would create demand for products thus businesses would hire people thus creating more demand.

[Heretofor]

75. Isn't that...

Going on right now with record numbers of people on unemployment and food stamps? What happened to the money that all those road signs are saying is/was being spent?

[ejpoeta]

77. it wasn't enough. that alone isn't enough. in a regular period it might be enough

but in this economy, no it isn't enough. and the dems just HAD to try to compromise with people who's only goal was to make sure the dems failed. they'd get an agreement and then voted against it anyway. the stimulus wasn't nearly enough. They needed a lot more investment and a lot more help for the people unemployed and in need. We've got a lot of roads that are falling apart... bursting pipes.... a lot of crap that needs fixing.... that's where we should be putting this money. not tax cuts for rich people.

[bahrbearian]

47. Drama Queen

[DirkGently]

48. Can't imagine what's keeping the supply-side fantasy propped up at this point.

[JHB]

50. Propaganda...

Paid for by tax cuts.

[bvar22]

66. ..and repackaged and resold by the Democratic Party "Centrist" leadership.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1276577

[DirkGently]

74. Clearly. Just wondering how much longer anyone can be fooled by it.

[juajen]

52. Spitzer was hogtied just like Weiner is being hogtied now.

If republicans can keep their fallen in office, why the hell can't we. We needed Spitzer and we need Weiner. Folks make your opinions heard everywhere on both issues. It is a dirty shame that Spitzer is a commentator on TV instead of helping us out of this mess in whatever way he could. We need both of these very smart and unafraid men. Well, one little weakness, which is universal among men, and used by the opposition because we do not stand firm. Get it?

[PatSeg]

61. Because we are Democrats

and must live by a higher standard. As Attorney General Spitzer went after corruption and prostitution. He not only broke the law he tried to enforce, he was a hypocrite. I admire him all other respects, but he did the right thing by resigning as Governor, unlike most tainted republicans.

As for Weiner, there doesn't seem to be any indication that he has done anything illegal and his behavior, though careless and stupid, isn't particularly hypocritical. If he can still perform his job, then I don't see any reason to resign. I don't condone his behavior, but its really none of my business.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jimlup]

55. He should not have agreed to be seen on the same panel as this person

She's a grandstanding conservative who takes her positions based on her sense of how it will profit her position. She has no trouble at all feeding on the ignorance of the masses. She has no morality. She should be marginalized.

[savannah43]

56. Just how irrelevant does that thing have to become

before she is ignored? I am happy Spitzer was there to hasten her fall, though.

[jimlup]

58. Agreed

I have a special degree of hate for this woman. She attended UM law at about the time I was in grad school there (not law school). She's a total whore.

[Supply Side Jesus]

57. you mean Supply SIde doesn't work!??!?!

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!


seriously though, I'm sure what he said went right over Coulter's head. That needed to be said for 30 years now...

[Uncle Joe]

60. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[Corruption Winz]

62. I loved her argument... "No, no, no."

No one could deny it. She clearly had the legal right to say "no" as many times as she wanted.

SCHOOLED, indeed.

[Politicalboi]

63. I didn't watch, but

Coulter was suppose to be on HLN on that woman's show who is also on the View to talk about Weiner. I wonder how that went. :eyes:

[BOG PERSON]

76. i hope spitzer can get back into politics some day.

he shouldn't be wasting his time making infotainment for cnn.

[Lost-in-FL]

79. Bless her heart... she is having a conversation with herself. nt

[Presidentcokedupfratboy]

85. good stuff

Good to see Coulter get a dose of reality thrown in her face.

[Chan790]

86. Clearly only one of these people has any education in economics.

There is a reason why if you look at economists employed by banks and large multinational corporations to make forecasts, you'll see a lot of Keynesians and a few Friedmanians but you won't find any of those batshit crazy Austrian school idjits now favored by the RW. (They no longer love Friedman now that they've learned that Milton Friedman largely thought Keynes was in the general vicinity of the truth and viewed his own work as tweak, not rebuttal.)

Edit: I feel compelled to point out they employ us but don't listen to us, especially if what we're saying doesn't jive with the dime-store economics of the MBA horde. Richard III wanted to kill all the lawyers, I'd much rather kill all the MBAs. They're fucking useless and evil.

[eilen]

89. My favorite sentence:

"How can you possibly be against the Civil Rights Act, Medicare, Social Security, Health Care Reform, Wall Street Reform AND Health Care for 9/11 First Responders and for tax cuts for the rich, war and torture, without realizing you're a bit of a Dick?"

[backtomn]

92. Keynes was clear about gov't spending.....

versus corporate spending. So, 'executives sitting on 2 trillion dollars of capital', has nothing to do with Keynsian economics. I think that this might not mean much.

[locahungaria]

93. But they won't hire, because there is no demand.

It doesn't matter how many trillions the corporations are sitting on. They won't hire Americans because there is no demand to do so. There is no demand because Americans don't have the money to buy more of the corporations' stuff. Americans don't have the money because they don't have living wage jobs. But the corporations won't hire more Americans because if they did their stocks would lose value, the greedy shareholders would squawk, and the CEOs would be replaced and thus lose their bonuses.

The only thing that can change this within a capitalist system is for the government to directly hire lots of people. But Obama won't even consider trying that. Therefore, nothing will change.

[RainDog]

98. this is what is so infuriating

capitalism doesn't give a shit about the country it is in.

the govt is supposed to.

tax the wealthy and use the money to create infrastructure jobs that lead to manufacturing and installation of renewable energy products in homes - give people credits for installing these things.

and that will start to put money back into the hands of the many, rather than the few, who, after a while, simply horde their money.

[ThoughtCriminal]

96. Why we still have a crisis

Bush tax cuts - still there.

[defendandprotect]

97. We need to return to progressive taxation on elites/corporations -- and re-regulate capitalism....

unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime.

[liberal N proud]

99. Elliot is the man

[russspeakeasy]

100. Excellent Kpete...just excellent.