Between Weiner and damascusgaygirl I have learned this week...

[Recursion]

...that progressives can be as stubborn about refusing to see the dark side of our heroes as conservatives are.

The defenses of Weiner I'm seeing are the kind of depressing tu quoque attempts I've frankly come to expect from conservatives (it doesn't matter what Ensign and Vitter have done when the question is Weiner, nor is "acceptable for Republicans" the behavior standard I hold our side to). Weiner's judgment in this whole situation, from taking all those photos in the first place, to sending them (apparently doing the "escalation" unilaterally in many cases), to lying so blatantly about them, has been so appalling that I really don't see a way for him to stay in the House realistically. But apparently a wretched lapse in judgment is supposed to be OK, as long as his behavior was within the bounds of the law (which, incidentally, it may not have been).

The rumors about Amina being fake have been circulating for weeks now, but attempts to bring them up here were met with vitriolic accusations of being a paid neocon shill.

Maybe it's because I've worked on Capitol Hill, but I don't suffer from the delusion that everyone with a progressive ideology is a good person. That idea blinds us to real flaws that we shouldn't ignore.

[Richardo]

1. +1

:kick:

[FLPanhandle]

2. I'm an old cynic

A lifetime of watching politicians and people will do that to a person

[seabeyond]

3. it reminds me of when i talk to christian coalition about their people. i got "we are all sinners"

having been in the fundamental environment during buscho early years, i had the experience for a revelation with the "we are all sinners". whenever any repug did wrong, they would innocently look at me and say "we are all sinners" dismissing outrageous behavior.

ok. fine. we are all sinners. still gets to pay the repercussion for actions....

nope. cause we are all sinners

this feels exactly the same only without the religious context

[peace13]

4. The problem is the double standard!

When you can give me a good reason why Vitter the pants *hitter still has his job along with many of his other dirty dogs then I will understand why the Dems should resign for lessor offenses. If you ask me, everyone in DC who votes against their own best interests must have a picture hanging over their own heads. The blackmail industry in DC should be investigated. When that happens we will see why our interests are not represented in our government!

[Recursion]

8. Ensign saw sex workers, which is icky

But he didn't send out a metric shitload of pictures, some of them unsolicited, to random women online. And, yes, it was "random women online" -- it apparently only took saying he looked good to get one.

[Skidmore]

15. Double standard should not be a convenient excuse to

sanction bad behavior on the left side of the aisle either. Weiner's behavior has rendered him and his message ineffective in the political arena.

[peace13]

45. I hear that , but we will never win...ever....

If we lay down but do not insist that the Rethugs do the same. It is insane to keep doing the same thing expecting different results. We are wasting our energy trying to keep the politicians to a moral standard. If they work and stand for the people that is the best that we can expect. I say that Weiner has done that. I can not say the same for Boner and Vitter the pants *hitter!

[DrDan]

5. the pictures from yesterday were enough to nudge me off the fence - I agree with you

sometimes you have to take the higher ground.

[Tx4obama]

6. Weiner should come out and tell everyone to FUCK OFF and stay out of his PRIVATE life. n/t

[seabeyond]

9. then weiner should have kept it PRIVATE. nt

[marions ghost]

22. yeah

the "private life" argument is the weakest. Tweeting is private life? Nah. Flashers need the thrill of exposure.

[seabeyond]

30. my kids wouldnt get away with this argument. funny.... nt

[Recursion]

10. If you want people out of your private life, don't run for Congress (nt)

[Tx4obama]

12. Being in Congress does NOT mean you give up your RIGHT to PRIVACY.

Congresspeople are Americans too and have RIGHTS afforded to them under the U.S. Constitution. End of story.

[Recursion]

13. Nobody has violated his Constitutional rights

Where on earth do you get that idea? Or do you think the right to privacy means your actions should be free of social and political consequences too?

[KittyWampus]

36. tweeting photos of your private parts gives away those rights. Especially if its using your office

and its title to hook women. Especially if you're using your account entitled "Rep. Weiner".

[MineralMan]

11. The trouble with that is that tweeting sexual stuff to people

you don't know is a very, very poor way to keep something private. All it takes is for the person receiving to become unenamored of you and what you sent becomes public. The poor judgment Weiner showed is more troubling to me than the actual stuff he did. Lying about it showed even worse judgment.

[Recursion]

14. My mom calls situations like that "felonious stupidity"

It's not so much that what you did itself deserves to get you kicked out, as the fact that you were stupid enough to do it.

[MineralMan]

23. Smart Mom.

Mine said something pretty much like that yesterday when I talked to my parents. She's 87, and doesn't suffer fools gladly.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

7. recommend.

[EFerrari]

16. I find it depressing that so many people's inner Calvanist is so easy

and so available to be manipulated by the likes of Andrew Breitbart.

[seabeyond]

18. i find it depressing so many people willing to judge so many peoples sexuality

in a demeaning manner if they have differing opinions about this situation. the hypocrisy is inspiring.

[Recursion]

29. I don't think it's Calvinist to be creeped out by a married man sending unsolicited picture...

...to much younger women. That's not free-spiritedness, that's on the line between creepy and predatory.

[EFerrari]

31. In your opinion.

[Recursion]

33. You think it's cool to send racy pictures to people who didn't ask for them? (nt)

[EFerrari]

39. I don't think it's "darK", "creepy" or "predatory".

If someone sends you something you don't want, you draw that line. It's not a national catastrophe.

[marions ghost]

17. It absolutely matters what Vitter and Ensign have done

--Weiner has a problematic affliction which he must take immediate steps to confront--but he cannot be made the fall guy for all the other indiscretions in congress. Watch out for zealots of any stripe.

[cali]

20. let's take Ensign out of the equation: He resigned and odds are he'll

be prosecuted. Vitter was not prosecuted because the statute of limitations had expired and his transgressions evoked a weaker response than Weiner's, in large part, because they were years old by the time they were revealed.

[marions ghost]

28. You're talking legalities

I'm talking political realities.

I'm only saying to let the chips fall. Let the process play out instead of joining those calling for his head. Let him try to dig out and let the NY voters decide. Don't add fuel to the flames. It doesn't help our collective cause at all. If you're so all about legalities, how about letting it play out instead of escorting Weiner to the guillotine?

[cali]

47. Sure. let it play out. I don't care all that much. And no one will be voting for

him. It's a near certainty that his district will be eliminated.

[cali]

19. excellent op. rec

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

21. You're absolutely right. I've worked for politicians at the state level (Maryland)

and on Capitol Hill. And now, my students are interns on Capitol Hill.

I see it this way: If we are going to hold progressives to moral standards, we would have never had FDR who was an adulterer, JFK, RFK and Teddy Kennedy, or Bill Clinton. Why is it so difficult for progressives to accept that our politicians are human beings? I feel that just as long as they aren't lying about issues that will affect my life or the lives of Americans in general, they are doing their jobs. We didn't hire saints when we went to the voting booths. Why do we expect for them to be morally indefensible?

[justiceischeap]

24. I think any politician caught in a sex scandal should be allowed to keep their job unless

They break the law. It's up to their individual constituents whether they get to keep that job (if it's a scandal only). That's my ruler, whether a Dem or Repub, if your sex scandal hasn't broken the law then leave them alone. It's not my job to be the morality police, as a lesbian, too many people try to police my life based on sex as it is and they are considered wrong by most liberals/progressives. This is no different.

[Recursion]

25. He is "allowed" to keep his job

The House isn't going to expel him. The question is, "should he" keep his job? That's a different question.

[justiceischeap]

27. Yes, he should be allowed to keep his job

unless his constituents indicate otherwise. Last week they were all for him keeping his, maybe this week with the release of more photos they'll want him to resign but as I said, if a politician hasn't broken any laws they should be allowed to keep their jobs. If I'm caught sexting, I'm not gonna lose my job over it (unless I work somewhere that has a morality agreement to employment).

Besides who makes you or I the chief of the morality police?

[Recursion]

46. Really?

If I'm caught sexting, I'm not gonna lose my job over it

You sure?

[Warpy]

26. What you should have learned

is that you don't know who anyone is online, ever.

Not even me. Sometimes not even you.

[slackmaster]

32. I used to know who I was when I was online...

But only when I was really stoned.

[JohnnyLib2]

34. Just substitute Rand Paul for Anthony Weiner in the equation.

Heh, heh, heh. (and they are very close in age)

[Recursion]

35. Yeah, he's a creepy guy too... (nt)

[NYC_SKP]

37. Allow me to add: The defense that no laws were broken is no defense.

I could give examples of really disgusting behaviors that don't happen to be against the law but that still tell us that a person lacks the judgement and possibly the moral integrity to serve in congress.

Rep Weiner might even have been guilty of some of these.

Republicans are generally winners on this kind of situation because they just look the other way, they don't eat their own.

[Zorra]

38. Yeah, when Clinton lied about cheating on his wife and getting a blow job

from a young intern I was actually a lot more concerned than I am about Rep. Weiner, since Clinton was the President of the United States at the time. Maybe it's because I haven't worked on Capitol Hill, but I don't suffer from the delusion that everyone with a neo-liberal ideology is a good person.

But you know, to this day, I'm very glad that President Clinton did not resign; he did a lot of cool shit at the end of his 2nd term.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. Well, it's a good thing he didn't fart in the elevator or pick his nose in public.

I tell you that we liberals have a higher standard!

Now let's move on to the "liberal" dress code and the proper use the salad fork.

[Recursion]

41. You really can compare sending unsolicited pictures and then lying about it...

... to picking your nose?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. No. I'm comparing it to the gasping Puritanism exhibited by bluenosed busybodies.

[lumberjack_jeff]

43. No. There's no comparison.

For conservatives, strict adherence to the party line is the only thing that matters.

We, on the other hand, look for excuses to tie our allies to the tracks.

[LanternWaste]

44. I imagine we learn only those things which validate our opinions in many cases...

I imagine we learn only those things which validate our opinions in many cases, and dismiss as fallacious or even minimize and call delusional those opinions which do not fall in line with our own dogmas. I imagine it's part of the human condition; though I'm fully confident that you're immune from it, and your own opinions are absolute.

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. 'vitriolic accusations'? Really?

I'm having a lot of difficulty finding those. I can find one thread from May, in which no-one expressed at doubt, or vitriol against anyone; and one post, with no replies (and the same post in another thread, again, no replies).

That's it, up until the story that she had been arrested, a week ago.

Are you sure you're not thinking of some other site where this 'vitriol' was?