Obama's jobs plan includes more H-1B visas, automatic green cards for foreign students

[somone]

http://www.wral.com/business/story/9721770/

Execs stress education, training to Jobs Council

A collection of nearly 40 private sector executives and entrepreneurs met in Durham with Austan Goolsbee, chair of the Council of Economic Advisors to President Obama, and members of the President's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness...

The lack of qualified workers led to a discussion of immigration issues, which Goolsbee acknowledged is a politically sensitive topic.

Gergen recommended that any foreign student graduating with a PhD would receive an “automatic green card.” The debate about green cards that permit foreign workers, especially in high-tech, to work in the U.S. has supporters and critics on both sides of the political aisle.

In a series of proposals submitted to President Obama later Monday by the council, a relaxation of visas for foreign visitors was included. The council also said high-tech visas are a subject it will explore as part of a more formal job creation plan...

[pnwmom]

1. This is a proposal submitted TO Obama, not BY Obama.

There is a difference.

[sueh]

7. Thanks for noticing this and pointing it out.

:hi:

[notesdev]

11. Proposed to him by his own appointees

either way the buck stops in the same place:

Obama appoints people who think that bringing in more foreign labor to further depress the already devastated US labor market is a good idea. The level of out-of-touch needed to propose such a thing is astronomical.

By Obama's own choice these are the kind of people who have his ear on economic issues. This helps to explain why the "recovery" is such a miserable failure.

[pnwmom]

12. Wrong again. Not proposed by his appointees, either.

This was merely a wish-list provided by industry reps TO a couple Obama appointees. Neither Obama nor his appointees proposed this; all they did was listen to the industry proposal.

"So said a collection of nearly 40 private sector executives and entrepreneurs who met in Durham with Austan Goolsbee, chair of the Council of Economic Advisors to President Obama, and members of the President's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness"

[notesdev]

13. Ahem

“We want to hear from you,” said Goolsbee, who chaired the meeting at a packed conference room in the headquarters of advertising and marketing firm McKinney.

Like it or not this is policy coming from the top. The folks who are saying these things are the people the President wants to hear from. Not people like you and me.

“You will never have a clearer line to the ear of the President,” added Goolsbee, who took numerous notes through the one-hour plus question-and-answer session. He pointed out that the Obama administration has already cut taxes and regulation and provided funding for additional loans from the Small Business Administration.

When do ordinary people get this clear line to the ear of the President? Sometime between raising cash from Wall St. and his golf outings?

[pnwmom]

15. Like it or not, this was just a listening session. n/t

[Chan790]

39. If you believe that...

This was a listening session where the President's economic adviser handpicked the people he was going to listen to...because they're dictating the policy to that adviser that will be followed. Your naivety is sweet but dangerous.

There comes a moment in time when one is forced to face facts and realize sometimes beloved leaders are not on your side. Obama's not on our side. We've been played, suckered, fooled...he's another opportunist corporatist shill selling us into slavery to the corporate technocracy.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. Awesome!

This will keep engineers and scientists from making too damn much money. So the rich can finally keep some for themselves.

[FreakinDJ]

3. lack of qualified workers = BULLSHIT

They have been peddling that line for 30 years to justify bringing in H1Bs for 50% wages

[emilyg]

8. 'aye

[lumberjack_jeff]

4. Supply-side employmonomics.

Flood the labor market with even more people and things are bound to get better... for employers.

[ej510]

5. Capitalism at its finest.

[theHandpuppet]

6. "Lack of qualified workers" my ass

What those employers want is the cheapest labor they can get, not the most qualified.

[pnwmom]

9. Agreed, but this is NOT Obama's plan, as the OP states.

It's a wish list drawn up by some companies and presented to Obama.

[notesdev]

14. why so primed for denial?

Face it, this is perfectly consistent with everything Obama has done on economic policy, from his very first day in office.

He didn't pick Geithner at random...

[pnwmom]

16. Why am I "primed for denial"? I've got reading comprehension skills.

More people around here should exercise theirs.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnwmom]

18. Yeah, right. The Dems and the Rethugs are all the same.

I've heard that line before. Nobody with any brains who watched the debate tonight could think that, though.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnwmom]

20. Apparently you prefer to engage in personal slurs

rather than to admit that the OP misrepresented the industry proposal as coming from Obama.

How surprising.

[notesdev]

21. Apparently you prefer to divert to trivialities

rather than acknowledge that this "industry proposal" comes from a group of individuals hand-selected by the administration to produce just such a proposal, and that said proposal is 100% consistent with all the administration's economic policies to date, and furthermore that the result of said policies is the impoverishment of you, your family, your community, and everyone else in this country not in the privileged elite.

[pnwmom]

22. These policies, by definition, cannot be 100% consistent with the economic policies to date

because they represent CHANGES that are being PROPOSED.

[notesdev]

23. Sure it can

The policy is: "Any measure that will help the very top economic tier of the country will be pursued, regardless of its effect on everyone else."

This is 100% consistent with everything to date and with this proposal as well.

[Romulox]

31. You drive a foreign car, then whine about H1Bs.

You like imported cars. I like imported IT workers. Same same. :hi:

[notesdev]

32. I drive a US-made car

Foreign brand perhaps but manufactured right here in the USA. One of the first by the manufacturer to be made in the USA, too - so contrary to your incorrect assumption, my car represents my support of US industry.

[Romulox]

35. Just like H1B labor is US based labor.

"Foreign brand perhaps but manufactured right here in the USA."

By union-busting scabs though. :hi:

[Romulox]

37. PS: The fact that US Toyota plants shut down for weeks on end after the Japan disaster proves

that those "Made in America" cars are just bolted together from parts made in Japan. :hi:

[fascisthunter]

36. that was my thought too

[originalpckelly]

10. Americans first.

If an American who is properly qualified applies for a job, they should be given a priority over any worker who is not a citizen of America. This would be as long as the American is as qualified as the foreign competitor. And the foreign worker must work at the asking price that the equivalent American worker would work for.

1. Eliminates any fears that "foreigners" will take American jobs.
2. Eliminates any fears that American wages will be depressed by workers unfairly working for shitty wages.

But this should be contingent upon the lifting of any caps on legal immigration and an amnesty for any individuals who came illegally, but do not have a prior criminal record in their nation of origin. If they cannot prove this, they should be given a provisional status that will cause them to be deported to their nation of origin upon conviction of any criminal offense that should be deemed serious enough to cause a real threat to the safety of citizens and legal immigrants in our nation.

This would single out individuals who are criminals and would not be desirable in our nation, leaving honest people who want to become Americans a chance to enter our country legally. Under this system, no one who is an honest person would be turned away.

[musette_sf]

28. + 1000

I am sick and tired of this H-1B BULLSHIT.

[OhioChick]

30. Well Said. I'm sick of this BS already n/t

[pampango]

24. Canada seems to prefer that highly skilled/educated people immigrate and become citizens

rather than having them come using a temporary visa (like the H-1B).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_immigration_to_Canada

The Canadian system puts great emphasis on finding skilled immigrants, however this system does not always work. Immigrants to Canada are more skilled than immigrants to the United States. George J. Borjas compared immigrants to Canada and the United States finding those to Canada being better educated and receiving higher wages once settled. He accredits this to Canada's points based immigration system, and argues for the United States to more closely emulate the Canadian method.

Within the Canadian economy, immigrants are most found at the highest education levels. In Canada, 38% of male workers with a post-graduate degree are immigrants to the country. 23% of Canadians are foreign born (in the US the figure is 11.3%), but 49% of doctorate holders and 40% of those with a masters degree were born outside Canada.

One important effect of this steady influx of highly skilled immigrants is the reduction of income inequality in Canada. A steady stream of doctors and engineers into the economy reduces wages for these professions. In the United States immigration patterns are reversed, and income inequality is much higher as a partial result.

The presence within Canada of people representative of many different cultures and nations has also been an important boost to Canada's international trade. Immigrants will often have expertise, linguistic skills, personal connections with their country of origin that can help forge international trade ties. Studies have found that Canada does have greater trade relations with those nations that have provided large numbers of immigrants. Canada's economy is heavily centered on international trade, which accounted for 36% of GDP in 2006.

[Bluebear]

25. A bit exclusionary though

If you don't fit the point system profile you are not encouraged to apply further!

[pampango]

26. True. While their system lets in 4 times as many immigrants per capita as the US, it is strict

as far as requiring them to have the particular skills/education that Canada is looking for.

[Romulox]

33. LOL. Talking about walking a point back!

"While their system lets in 4 times as many immigrants per capita as the US, it is strict as far as requiring them to have the particular skills/education that Canada is looking for."

Based on your philosophy, that makes Canadian immigration policy virulently racist! And yet you PRAISE it?

I'm disappointed by your lack of consistency on this point, to say the least! :rofl:

[pampango]

40. It would only be racist if you assume that immigrants with education and skills have to be white.

Actually the top three countries that Canadian immigrants come from are China (29,049 - 11.5%), the Philippines (27,277 - 10.8%) and India (26,122 - 10.4%).

By regions, their immigrants come from Asia (41.6%), Africa and the Middle East (27.4%), South and Central America (10.1%), Europe (15.8%) and the US (5%).

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/research-stats/facts2009.pdf

Based on my philosophy, Canada's immigration policy is not racist. (It would be hard to make a racism case stick, wouldn't it? 80% of their immigrants are non-white.) :)

Based on your philosophy (since we're assuming we know these things) the fact that they let in 4 times as many immigrants per capita makes their immigration policy foolishly generous. Those immigrants are just competition for Canadian workers, right? The Canadian view of immigrants as an asset to their country is hopelessly naive?

[Romulox]

42. Nonsense. Your contention has always been that a policy limiting immigration to skilled workers

would be racist, if implemented in the United States.

"Based on your philosophy (since we're assuming we know these things) the fact that they let in 4 times as many immigrants per capita makes their immigration policy foolishly generous."

Again, nonsense. The vast majority of immigrants to the United States are unskilled and largely impoverished, unlike immigrants to Canada. You know--stoop labor. Not at all analogous to Canada, therefore, and highly disingenuous for you to hold up Canada's immigration policy as ideal when you would unquestionably label the same policy (i.e. limiting immigrants to those with a specific, in-demand skill) as racist if implemented in the US.

[pampango]

44. "The vast majority of immigrants to the United States are unskilled and largely impoverished.."

Perhaps not any more.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/report-documents-dramatic-shift-in-immigrant-workforces-skill-level/2011/06/08/AGHqthMH_story.html

"Highly skilled temporary and permanent immigrants in the United States now outnumber lower-skilled ones, marking a dramatic shift in the foreign-born workforce that could have profound political and economic implications in the national debate over immigration."

... in 2007 the percentage of highly skilled workers overtook that of lower-skilled workers.

The trend reflects a fundamental change in the structure and demands of the U.S. economy, which in the past decades transformed from an economy driven by manufacturing to one driven by information and technology. The report also offers a new perspective on the national immigration discourse, which tends to fixate on low-skilled, and often illegal, workers.



Since I have always posted positively about Canada's immigration system, it would be wrong of me to label a similar system, if implemented in the US (assuming it resulted in a high percentage of immigrants being racial minorities as in Canada) as racist. Of course, any immigration policy - whether it was based on in-demand skills/education, refugee status, family reunification, etc. - that resulted in a predominantly white group of immigrants would be tough to defend as not being racist. But that would be the same as a company hiring all whites then claiming its hiring policy was not racist.

I don't recall ever posting that an in-demand skill based immigration system in the US would be racist, but you have a better memory for the posting history of others. If I did, I should have qualified it by saying that such a system would be racist if it resulted in a predominantly white set of immigrants unlike what happens in Canada.

[Romulox]

45. You didn't understand the article you posted. It's about the RATE of new LEGAL immigrants

It doesn't speak to ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION at all. :hi:

"I don't recall ever posting that an in-demand skill based immigration system in the US would be racist, but you have a better memory for the posting history of others. If I did, I should have qualified it by saying that such a system would be racist if it resulted in a predominantly white set of immigrants unlike what happens in Canada."

You have accused just about everyone who disagrees with your cheap labor agenda of being racist, at one time or another. So quit playing coy (you're terrible at it!). If you were proud of your positions, you wouldn't be so disingenuous. :hi:

[pampango]

46. No, you didn't understand the article. It's about all immigrants.

It refers to our "foreign-born workforce" and "immigrant population". Nowhere does it indicate that it is only looking at legal immigrants.

In fact it specifically makes reference to "(w)orkers from Mexico and Central America tend to be lower skilled, while India, China and the Philippines send many more highly skilled workers than lower-skilled one, said Audrey Singer, a senior fellow at Brookings who co-wrote the study." Now that statement could be referring to only legal immigrants from Mexico and Central America, but it does not states that.

I have accused none of us of being racist for wanting to limit immigration (teabaggers and the base of the republican party are a different matter because race does factor into their desire to limit immigration). I disagree with the policy of limiting immigration and I am proud of my position. (Perhaps I was born Canadian or European and my parents just never told me. :) ) Not sure why you thought otherwise, since I post about it fairly often.

You are no slouch yourself when it comes to assessing posters' "true" motivations and attaching labels. I have to give credit, though. I've never seen you accuse anyone of racism. :hi:

[Romulox]

47. Nonsense. The article plainly omitted any mention of the ILLEGAL workforce.

It didn't even offer any speculation as to their number (as if a definitive number of undocumented people could exist!)

You are misrepresenting the contents of this article at this point. It does not say what you claim it does. :hi:

"I have accused none of us of being racist for wanting to limit immigration "

No. But you have never hesitated to COMPARE cheap labor opponents to known racists in the "You know who else had a mustache? HITLER!" style of smear-by-association. :hi:

[pampango]

48. Nonsense. It omits any mention of illegal and legal workforce, just "workforce".

"No. But you have never hesitated to COMPARE cheap labor opponents to known racists..."

I am pleased that note your statement that I have "accused just about everyone who disagrees with your cheap labor agenda of being racist" is not correct. You had me worried for a while that I had unintentionally done so.

I certainly have pointed out on many occasions that "known racists" and known racist political parties oppose liberal immigration policies. It is easy to find instances of it since all the "populist" right wing parties espouse limiting immigration. I will continue to post those in the future.

As far as your revised charge that I "have never hesitated to COMPARE cheap labor opponents to known racists..." I would have to disagree again. In most of the articles I post about right wing parties and racist individuals blaming immigration for all of society's problems, I make no reference to Democrats who want to limit immigration. So perhaps I do frequently "hesitate" to make the comparison after all.

Perhaps though there is something to be said for your implied suggestion that comparing those who favor limiting immigration to known racist (or those who favor increasing immigration to known cheap labor advocates) is not a good way to win hearts and minds. ;) While I will continue to post examples of right wingers and racists who oppose immigration, I will try my best to "hesitate" when it comes to drawing any comparison with Democrats who support that policy.

[Romulox]

50. Bottom line, the article does not support your assertions.

That it doesn't disprove your assertions is a weak argument, and all the rest is a distraction.

[Romulox]

51. BTW, I guess you've had this revelation that it's wrong to smear your ideological opponents

in the past two days.

"Perhaps though there is something to be said for your implied suggestion that comparing those who favor limiting immigration to known racist (or those who favor increasing immigration to known cheap labor advocates) is not a good way to win hearts and minds."

pampango (1000+ posts) Sun Jun-12-11 10:02 AM

"Most Democratic voters are closer to the Republicans in their attitudes toward illegal immigration

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1281813&mesg_id=1281813

:hi:

[pampango]

52. Better late than never, if we can agree that it is wrong. n/t

[NYC_SKP]

27. I Fail to See How the Headline of this OP Matches the Article... "100,000 STEM Teachers..."

Now THAT part caught my attention.

"Goolsbee pointed out that the government wants to “add 100,000 STEM teachers” for science, technology, engineering and math. But that number isn’t enough since many current baby boomer STEM teachers are nearing retirement, he noted."

And another part about how we need more government lab commercialization (think NASA technologies becoming products and markets).

"Laura Schoppe, whose company Fuentek works with federal agencies and labs in technology transfer, said government lab commercialization efforts are “not well funded.” One result, she stressed, is that the commercialization pipeline of government discoveries “is not full.”

Schoppe called for streamlining of commercialization and standardization of language so government labs and the private sector can be on the same page. She complained that the labs “don’t communicate” with each other."

``````````````````

As regards visa and foreign workers, I found this:

"In a series of proposals submitted to President Obama later Monday by the council, a relaxation of visas for foreign visitors was included. The council also said high-tech visas are a subject it will explore as part of a more formal job creation plan.

The article is a very good read.

:donut:

[Distant Observer]

29. Rate of innovation and new jobs in US depends on IMMIGRANTS in high-tech. That is a FACT

No point pretending otherwise. Anyone who worked in Silicon Valley can tell you that. It is either let the top engineers and scientist work here, or they will continue a part of the process of taking elsewhere as part of business as usual for Global Corporate.

[Romulox]

34. Seems like over HALF of DU's H1B whiners drive Toyotas or similar.

:nopity:

[fascisthunter]

38. No Skilled Americans can do these jobs?

sure...

[SammyWinstonJack]

41. Obama 2012 "He's in...Are you?"

:silly:

[inna]

43. frighteningly reactionary policies - in general. scary stuff, really.

[Skidmore]

49. Unrec for misrepresentation of article's content.