DU Social Engineering question o' the day: Retire our elders or imprison our youth?

[elehhhhna]

Either way we're going to spend the money.

If much of the age 65-plus crowd cannot (not won't: CANNOT) exit full-time employment gracefully, there's not enough room for our young'uns.

Unemployed/underemployed twentysomethings are trouble. They get up to some very naughty business when they're "bored".

Let the 65-ish retire peacefully or jump the budget for cops, courts, prisons, emergency rooms, rehab facilities, etc., etc. ad nauseum? Your thoughts, please.

[Turbineguy]

1. Both!

It will be a republican paradise!

[RainDog]

2. can we allow people to repatriate?

my ancestors were from France-->Canada-->U.S.

ya'll can ship me back to Canada or France. I'll volunteer.

[elehhhhna]

5. mine hail from a suburb of amsterdam. i'm in!

[RainDog]

cool. I'll come visit!

:)

[WatsonT]

11. We do allow people to do that

you're always free to leave the US (assuming you aren't being investigated for some crime).

Other countries aren't obligated to take you though.

[RainDog]

17. exactly

and then there are little things like family...

I have enough "points" to immigrate to Canada - but no job. tho I have applied for some there.

however, all things given, if I could leave, I would. I'd rather live in a nation that cares about someone other than the rich.

[elehhhhna]

30. Apply in Calgary and surrounding areas. Trust me.

[dixiegrrrrl]

3. Those are the only 2 choices to a false premise?

Puhleeze,

[elehhhhna]

6. play along already. be constructive dixegrrrrl. i like you.

please?

[dixiegrrrrl]

20. ooookay..if you insist.

I vote for retroactive birth control for one of the groups.

[elehhhhna]

31. good one!

Thank you!

[Lint Head]

4. Any youth smoking pot will be put into an

internment camp and the elderly will be declared mentally incompetent to the
detriment of the economy thus a national security risk and allowed to die. This is the future if nothing changes. Corporate fascists have the weapon of mainframe computing.

[elehhhhna]

7. uh oh. THAT's gonna REALLY suck.

[BillsCatz]

9. Yeah, right

I saw that movie, too.

[BillsCatz]

8. Brave New World anyone?

These are the remnants of the Industrial Age here in the US. Oh, the work disappeared and with it the that part of the economy, but the mentality still rules. Old folks are like broken or outdated machines, just stick 'em in a warehouse until they rust away. The public school system caved-in for lack of a tax base, so there's nobody brainwash the kiddies into running milling machines for eight hours a day at $6/hr. But that's no problem because all those jobs are gone anyhow. God save America.

[elehhhhna]

32. well YOU'RE a ray of effin sunshine.

lol welcome to DU!

[Newest Reality]

10. Why not just massively

cull the population and create an exclusive Utopia for the wealthy few?

Just how many slaves do you need to maintain paradise with a small population?

[WatsonT]

12. Or get illegal immigration under control

eliminating that would "create" millions of new jobs without forcing anyone to retire.

[elehhhhna]

13. yeah. milions of sucky, sucky jobs.

that don't pay.

YAY!!1!

[WatsonT]

14. They would pay at the very least minimum wage

Which is greater than zero.

But be sure to publicly scorn blue collar work. That's a vote winner.

"eww, working outside? Like in the sun, with no internet connection?"

[Fumesucker]

19. Lots of undocumented immigrants work in restaurants...

Restaurant work by no means always pays minimum wage, even for those with documentation.

[WatsonT]

23. Waiters don't get paid minimum wage

but the cooks do, which is where most of the illegals work: in the back.

It's strange to hear you arguing *against* more jobs for Americans because they aren't good enough.

Working in a factory isn't so nice either.

Maybe we should just cancel any attempts at economic recovery unless 100% of the jobs pay 6 figures, involve sitting in an air conditioned office, and are intellectually fulfilling.

[Fumesucker]

24. I wasn't arguing anything..

Just pointing out that not all legal jobs pay as much as minimum wage.

And I've done work that is harder and more dangerous than most, not quite "Deadliest Catch" level but not far off either, far worse than working in a factory.

[WatsonT]

25. Ok, so your opposition to creating jobs for Americans comes from . . . ?

[Fumesucker]

26. Somewhere out of your nether orifice apparently..

What part of "not all legal jobs pay minimum wage" do you fail to understand?

That's all I was saying.

[WatsonT]

27. You're picking the tiny fraction that don't

and using it to denounce the entire thing.

"yeah so what if that could create 10 million new jobs, some of those uh . . might be less than minimum wage (because you know all those illegals working as waiters) so why even bother? I mean if like .1% of the new jobs are below minimum wage that completely negates the other 99.9%"

[Fumesucker]

28. I haven't "denounced" anything..

I was just pointing out that you were incorrect when you said all the jobs would pay at least minimum wage.

You really shouldn't take this so personally, I don't even recognize your handle so I have no idea if we've ever even interacted on DU before.

[WatsonT]

29. And you haven't really pointed out which jobs wouldn't

other than waiters which are not occupied by illegals in general. All other staff would need to be payed MW. As would farmers and construction workers and so on.

[elehhhhna]

34. if you think there ain't no mexican waiters/waitresses come on down to houston

you'be disabused of that notion, pronto

also, stop in chicago
that ain't an Italian waiting on you at Vivere

[Renew Deal]

15. Wasn't this decided 70 years ago?

[AndyTiedye]

16. Lower the Retirement Age

Let people retire at 55 if they want to (note I said "let", not "make").

[area51]

21. +1 n/t

[elehhhhna]

35. and/or implement the 34 hour week

[jtuck004]

18. What happened to investing in ourselves and our country?

Fix bridges, schools, parks, research into alternatives to our current energy, start local food initiatives, start business incubators, teach and learn from each other the skills needed to create local manufacturing facilities - lots of ideas that would create jobs which lead to spinoff neighbor-owned industries...

using, say, an amount equal to that paid to the banks since 2008 to insure their bonuses and cover up their misrepresentations which served as the foundation for their Ponzi scheme...

which would increase demand...

which is the only thing that has ever made the wealthy invest money.

In the OP scenario the old folks are worthless, and the young folks aren't smart enough to help themselves without killing off the old folks. I just can't get my head around that.

[avaistheone1]

33. All the money is going to the wars and the banks.

The American people have been forgotten.

[customerserviceguy]

22. What older people spend

whether it's from gainful employment or spending their retirement savings and pensions, that becomes part of the economy, too. The money the old folks put out employs younger people, too.

What difference does it make if they use their rich experience to produce a paycheck long after the twentysomethings consider them fit only for shuffleboard?

[Chan790]

37. It is actually an economic drag, funnily enough.

I could demonstrate but it would require dragging out the complex and unfun math. A lot of it too.

The best solution honestly is the one nobody discusses: A compulsory retirement age.

Want to work past 66? Tough shit. Uncle Sam needs shuffleboarders.

[customerserviceguy]

39. Yeah, sounds like freedom to me

While I support the notion that people ought to be able to have a comfortable retirement at, say 66, forcing it on people who have a desire to keep being productive goes agains my ideas of liberty.

[Eddie Haskell]

36. Let's have a generation war

If we kill each other off, the Republicans can have it all. They'll bring in more cheap Mexican labor and won't have to pay for SS, or Medicare, or food stamps, or ...

Which side did you say you're on?

[Hestia]

38. ooh *snap*

[MadHound]

40. Yeah, let's pit the generations against each other, that's the ticket

Let's not think of alternatives that would grow our economy and job base. Let's not think of ways to fund programs for the social good, such as Social Security, that would allow our elders to actually have the option of retiring. Let's throw that all out the window in favor of pitting one generation against another. Yeah, that's the ticket, the ticket that serves the rich and power elite quite well, that good ol' divide and conquer that pits the masses against each other while the rich and powerful continue to live a life of luxury.

[entanglement]

41. Yes. Let's blame teachers, seniors, the unemployed, youth, "illegals", "moochers", "those" people...

Everyone except the predators at the top of the capitalist food chain, that is.