Question about Greece political and economic situation: the current

[coalition_unwilling]

prime minister Papandreou heads the Socialist party. Why is he pushing an austerity program that has little to do with workers and much to do with capitalists? Is the Greek Socialist party socialist in name only?

Along those lines, it sounds like the right-wing Greek New Democratic party headed by Samaras is the party now calling for the debt to be 're-negotiated'. Is that polite speak for 'default'? Why is the right-wing advancing an agenda that is more favorable to workers, while the Socialist party is doing the capitalists' dirty work?

[Harmony Blue]

1. There are many socialist and communist parties in Greece

PASOK is considered a moderate socialist party. The right blindly label them Communist which is completely not accurate. Anyways, they are under pressure from outside forces, and they pretty much have no say in what is happening. This infuriates PASOK supporters, but also all Greeks because they feel that their government is no longer in their control, especially true if the foreign predatory capitalists take over their country.

Nea Demokratia (New Democracy)probably sees this as an opportunity to return to the Draxma, which would be favorable to the rich elite not the workers. I am not sure why KKE is pushing for that angle, but I will try to read up on it a bit more.

[coalition_unwilling]

4. Thank you for these insights. They still leave my puzzlement though. To wit,

any real Socialist party, imho, should be telling European and American bankers to go take a flying fuck. Lenders lend at their own risk. No reason Greek workers should have to suffer to make Greek bondholders (French, German and American banks) whole.

It's unclear to me whether an exit from the Euro and return to the Drachma would favor Greece's elite or its workers, especially if such a move accompanied renunciation of all Greek debt (a la Argentina). That's why I'm puzzled that it's the center-right party calling for debt 'renegotiation' and not the socialists.

[white_wolf]

2. The reason is simple:

All of the so called socialist and communist parties have become focused on electoral victories and thus are nothing more than bourgeois parties. Even the so called communist party is focused purely on elections instead of building working class consciousness and preparing the working classes for revolution which should be the ultimate goal of any socialist or communist party.

[Harmony Blue]

5. It is hard to say

as the KKE is the remnant of what was left when the Communists lost the Civil War in Greece. Indeed, they may have lost their way, but they stand out a lot more than PASOK for example when compared to ND.

[coalition_unwilling]

6. Ah-ha. Makes sense. They're SINO and CINO parties now, sounds like.

Is there anything a U.S. proletariat (me) can do to support the Greek proletariat?

[socialist_n_TN]

3. Well I'll take a shot at this...........

Most of the Euro "Socialist" parties are just that, SINOs. They are part of the bourgeoisie political system just like the RW parties are. They don't want to change the SYSTEM, they will just tinker around the edges of the system.

As to the second question, make no mistake the rightest parties are even MORE (marginally) in the pockets of the capitalists than the left bourgeoisie. If they're talking about renegotiating the debt, that's exactly what they're talking about. Not defaulting, but renegotiating it over a longer term at, I'm sure, a higher interest rate. IOW, putting off today's problems down the road and owing the capitalists even MORE money in interest payments. And obviously they're doing it in order to curry favor with the people and defuse the current crisis.

When capitalism has a crisis like they have in Greece, they do everything they can to paper over the crisis so that they don't lose their power. Their thinking is that when things settle down a little, they can go ahead an reinstitute the austerity. All the while they've made even MORE in interest payments and the Greek govenment will STILL owe the principle.

[coalition_unwilling]

7. Awesome analysis and explanation. Thank you. Is there anything

a U.S. prole (me) can do to support the Greek proletariat?

[socialist_n_TN]

8. I wonder that myself. Probably not at this stage........

Just support international worker's movements. IF the Greek workers did actually take over and then defaulted, I'm sure the US would get involved in trying to stifle and/or overthrow it. THEN we could try and stop our government from interfering.

In my ideal situation, I would like to see all of the countries threatened with "austerity" because of the crises brought on by the capitalists, overthrow their SYSTEMS and institute true socialism and then form a bloc to help each other out. In the other Greek thread on GD I go into it a little more. I actually don't see any other way around it. Nothing else is going to work to get them out of this deep hole the capitalist crisis has gotten them into.

Here's a couple of web sites that have the programme, just not the popularity. Yet.

www.fifthinternational.org and the American section

www.workerspower.net

[coalition_unwilling]

9. The U.S. government (or portions within it) would no doubt

sanction a counter-revolution by the generals. Come to think of it, I think U.S. government did exactly that many years ago in Greece at the height of the Cold War.

Thanks for the links. I will check them out soon.

[white_wolf]

10. If you want to see the U.S. goverement's response to a worker's goverment in Greece

Google Allende Salvador and Augusto Pinochet. I have no doubt that we would gladly prop up another dictator in order to protect capitalism.

[Harmony Blue]

11. Greece was under a seven year right wing military junta

when the Communists power declined, so a repeat is a strong possibility.