Is Ron Paul Left of Obama?

[vroomvroom]

Serious question. I know Ron Paul is a republican and so leans right but relative to Obama, who is more of a center-right president, is Ron more left of Obama? During the debates i notice the vote meter independents really liked Ron a lot.

[white_wolf]

1. In a few key areas he is,

On foreign policy and torture and such him and Kucinich who is likely the most left-wing person in Congress or one of them anyway see eye to eye. However, when it comes to domestic areas no, Paul is far to the right of Obama. I am not even a fan of Obama and I think Ron Paul is very dangerous. Read up on Right wing libertarianism sometime. It's scary stuff.

[nxylas]

10. Check out his own website

Here's a few snippets to get you started:

HEALTH CARE
"Why should anyone be forced to subsidize the medical care of others? Very few individuals would personally assault their neighbors at gunpoint and steal thousands of dollars to pay for their own medical needs. How could any freedom loving person agree to delegate such criminal acts to the government by supporting a compulsory health insurance system?

There is only one solution that will lead to true health and true freedom: making health care more affordable. Ron Paul believes that only true free market competition will put pressure on the providers and force them to lower their costs to remain in business. Additionally, Ron Paul wants to change the tax code to allow individual Americans to fully deduct all health care costs from their taxes."

EDUCATION
"Ron Paul works towards the elimination of the inefficient Department of Education, leaving education decisions to be made at the state, local or personal level. Parents should have the right to spend their money on the school or method of schooling they deem appropriate for their children."

TAXES
"Ron Paul supports the elimination of the income tax and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). He asserts that Congress had no power to impose a direct income tax and has introduced legislation to repeal of the 16th Amendment to the Constitution, which was ratified on February 3, 1913."

[MisterP]

45. Liberts are 20% liberal, 80% far-right

it's like getting 20% of a kitten: it's just awful, and it gives nowhere near one-fifth the joy a whole kitten does

[livetohike]

2. No. Ron Paul is a disciple of Ayn Rand

Some of his "ideas" are despicable.

[Scuba]

3. Ronald Reagan? Richard Nixon?

[Skidmore]

4. No. Ron Paul is a right wing libertarian of the pernicious Randian variety.

[Poll_Blind]

5. Trick question: Ron Paul takes positions which some on the Left have, but for different ultimate....

...reasons than most on the Left. He also takes positions on the Right and I think the reasoning behind those choices, too, is different than most Right voters. IMO, this is why I think a person like Ron Paul is actually dangerous to both Democrat and Republican parties- he would tend to appeal to elements of both parties, and possibly even a fiscally-conservative, tired-of-war Center.

But look beneath the surface and I think he's a good overall political "fit" for very, very few.

PB

[blogslut]

6. No

[vaberella]

7. No. And this is not even worth contemplating. The man doesn't even support the 14th Amendment.

Alerted.

[DCBob]

8. does it really matter??.. the guy is a loon.

[Name removed]

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[LeftishBrit]

9. Hell no

That is like asking 'is the BNP to the left of Gordon Brown, or even David Cameron'? One *one* issue - involvement in foreign wars - he may be, but that is out of isolationism, not pacifism. (Same goes for the BNP.) However, he is generally xenophobic; opposed to legislating civil rights; anti-abortion; calls gay rights 'heterophobia'; and is FAR right on all economic issues. He considers taxation 'theft', is totally against even a very limited welfare state, and has said that just because people need healthcare does not mean that they are entitled to have it - a truly vile statement from anyone, but even more so from a doctor.

He is admittedly to the left of ONE person that I can think of; and that is his even more repulsive son, Rand Paul!

[nxylas]

11. And the weird thing is...

...He's still my favourite Republican (albeit only in the sense that the others are even worse).

[baldguy]

12. "Independents" who like Ron Paul are just libertarians.

Which means, they're dyed-in-the-wool Republicans who like to smoke pot.

And they're just a little out-of-touch, too:

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. If you ask me, cats *are* libertarians

:hide:

[Dokkie]

46. damn, I was gonna say that

:)

[Igel]

59. Nihilists.

Verging on anarchists.

[harun]

13. Yes, in most areas.

[demmiblue]

14. No. n/t

[jpak]

15. He's an asshole

left of nothing

yup

[Name removed]

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[jpak]

22. He's still an asshole

yup

[Name removed]

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[jpak]

25. Ron Paul sucks

yup

[Name removed]

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[jpak]

30. Kucinich is a Democrat - Paul is an asshole Republican and a Douchebag

And Republicans started those wars

yup

[Name removed]

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[baldguy]

28. Eliminating Social Security, Medicare, unemployment insurance, TANF payments....

...publicly-funded education, any regulation of any sort in any type of industry to ensure safety and fairness to workers & the general public.

Ron Paul is a damn communist!

[JackRiddler]

36. Sounds terrible for US citizens, but what about all the people who won't be burned by US drones?

Also, what about the millions whose lives will not be destroyed by the War on Drugs? Don't they count?

Just pointing out that his stands on these two issues, war for empire and the "war on drugs," possibly the most important issues of all and highly relevant to freedom and justice, makes him a much harder character to condemn than your correct list of his other, atrocious stands.

[Name removed]

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[baldguy]

44. He's against the War on drugs and the MIC because they cost money.

Not because they're immoral.

If he could destroy people's lives & kill innocent foreigners without spending any tax dollars he'd be all for it.

Murder is OK just as long as someone makes a profit.

[JackRiddler]

47. That's not really true and I have to wonder why you need to exaggerate or invent reasons...

not to like him, when in fact he provides so many real reasons not to like him. His opposition on those two issues is principled.

Obviously the war on drugs and the perpetual war for empire are very hot-button issues on which the Democratic leadership and most D politicians participate in the bipartisan consensus of the 100 percent wrong. These are the morally least justifiable of all government endeavors: locking up people because they sell a smokable plant and blowing up people on the other side of the planet in order to advance some geopolitical fantasy or defend the interests of a corporation. These are murder. So I guess this is why D-party partisans find his existence so hard to accept.

[JackRiddler]

48. Anyway, fuck Ron Paul because...

if he was for real, if he was really interested in effecting the maximum possible change that he could, he would have changed parties and run in the Democratic primaries solely on two issues: ending the wars for empire and ending the "war on drugs." He would have acknowledged that he wasn't going to win and said a vote for him was for those two things, only. Now that would have made things interesting.

[LeftishBrit]

64. 'If he could destroy people's lives & kill innocent foreigners without spending any tax dollars'

he'd be all for it!'

Indeed, he is.

If you can destroy people's lives by denying them healthcare and enough money to live, why bother putting them in prison for drug use?

If you can kill lots of innocent foreigners by ending all foreign aid so that even more poor people die of hunger and disease, why bother declaring war?

The drug wars and war in Iraq, etc. are horrible abuses. But violence and murder can be passive, and that is what such as Paul essentially support!

[Name removed]

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[jpak]

49. He's a dumbass and no one will vote for him

except nutjob libertarian dumbasses

0.000001% of the electorate

yup

[fishwax]

17. no

Ron Paul doesn't lean right, he's far right. On a few issues his position overlaps with positions frequently held on the left, but that's not a function of him being on the left at all.

[butterfly77]

18. No..

[phleshdef]

19. Ron Paul isn't to the left of anyone. His isolationist views place him on the left by coincidence.

Just because 2 people have an anti-war stance doesn't mean they arrived at that position for the same reasons. The reasons are what matters as far as ideology goes. Ron Paul doesn't believe that the government should much of anything, include fight wars. People on the left are typically anti-war for humanitarian reasons and because we'd rather spend that money on domestic programs. Ron Paul wants to spend the money on massive tax decreases.

[Name removed]

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[canoeist52]

23. He is anti-war and against the Patriot Act abuses.

-Libertarian on all other issues.

[MrScorpio]

27. No. nt

[Fumesucker]

29. On the drug war Paul is far to the left of Obama and almost all other Democrats as well..

On most other things he's far right.

[Upton]

31. Anti drug war, anti foreign wars..

Paul is to the left of Obama on those issues for sure...

[PoliticAverse]

32. Stop viewing the political spectrum as a straight line of left to right...

And instead view it in 2-dimensions.

This will help you to understand things better.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum

[awoke_in_2003]

33. Ron Paul is a broken clock...

even those are right twice a day. Ron Paul is a lot of things, the primary being a racial bigot.

[JackRiddler]

38. Hardly. His stands are not coincidental.

He represents (far more so than his fakey-fake son) a consistent (if insane) philosophy that determines his stands on almost everything, two of which, on extremely important issues, are courageous and righteous (the rejection of war for empire and "war on drugs"). The rest is a horror, of course.

[awoke_in_2003]

63. yeah, it is the horror...

that bothers me.

[Name removed]

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[Aerows]

34. No

Ron Paul reminds me of the Clint Eastwood saying: "Extremism is so easy. You've got your position, and that's it. It doesn't take much thought. And when you go far enough to the right you meet the same idiots coming around from the left."

He's so far to the right that he occasionally bumps into the left. Not that I think those on the far left are all crazy, but there are a few that are so far to the left, they run into some of the crazy people on the right.

[karynnj]

35. Ron Paul is a libertarian - and a "purer" one than most

The problem with asking if he is to "left" of any Democrat is that political positions are not adequately modeled by one variable. A libertarian wants as little government as possible - both on social issues, in terms of intervening in other countries, and in terms of government programs.

So, on the last one - government programs, Paul has said that Medicare, Social Security and any welfare program are not the function of government - and he is against him. On this, he is as far from a liberal as a person can be.

On regulations, most liberals thing that regulations can be useful, but a libertarian thinks they steal freedom. Otherwise the powerful could exploit their positions. (think - OSHA, EPA, child labor laws etc - all of which Paul is likely against. ) Now, there are some instances where some people who identify as liberal favor deregulation - ie drug laws, as least as marijuana is concerned, though I would argue that there are liberals on both side of this - as I believe, even though it is more hypocritical of them< there are libertarians on both sides.

So, you will find issues where people here agree more with Paul than with any of the Democratic leadership. (In 2004 and 2008, there were many who looking JUST at his position on war were for him.

[customerserviceguy]

50. Yep, libertarians sometimes look that way

They're a bit of a fun-house mirror sometimes.

[stevenleser]

41. If you are a Democrat or Progressive, you disagree with about 40%-60% of Libertarian philosophy

While that is better than disagreeing with 100% of Republican philosophy, it still isnt good.

They want to destroy all social programs and privatize everything except for the military.

- 100% private healthcare (no medicare, no medicaid, no possibility of working towards single payer)

- No Social Security, no welfare, no food stamps, no WIC

- Businesses should be allowed to do virtually anything they want under Libertarianism. They even believe that laws that restrict pollution by businesses and unsafe practices should be abolished. They believe that unions should be destroyed. They believe that the only restriction on business should be whether consumers continue to buy from them. They believe that we would vote with our feet to other businesses if a business kills too many people or pollutes too much and that alone would/should keep businesses in check.

- Yes, the good things are they are anti-war, anti-interventionist and they are also very pro individual freedoms.

But none of those freedoms will mean anything if you take away all laws restricting bad behavior on the part of businesses. We will all be either dead or completely impoverished.

[krabigirl]

51. Not exactly, but some of his views are shared by those on the left or left libertarians,

However, vs Obama, his views on foreign intervention and the war on drugs are much better IMO. Economics, I don't agree but Obama is pretty moderate on that also.

[madinmaryland]

52. Are you fucking serious?

[chrisa]

53. I can see why some would confuse RP as a liberal.

However, he's actually to the extreme right. He has some of the same platform issues that liberals have, but he also believes in small government, practically to the point of Anarchy.

He's a Conservative-Isolationist. He's a Conservative, but not a Republican in the sense of the common Republican mindset.

[SidDithers]

54. Ahahahahahahaha...

Best post of the day. :rofl:

Sid

[n0 h8]

55. Most likely

Probably.

[SidDithers]

56. Welcome to DU...

Really. Welcome. You're going to fit right in. :eyes:

http://www.dailypaul.com/141699/dr-ron-paul-on-gay-marriage-legislation

Sid

[War Horse]

57. Paul is a faux Libertarian

Randian meets SoCon. Look up Paul's views on abortion, just to begin with. And you may want to check out his views on the John Birch Society as well...

[Critters2]

60. I've heard him say he opposes abortion, but thinks it's a private matter.

That makes him pro-choice.

[Critters2]

58. Libertarians don't fit neatly in the right/left continuum.

Right on economics, left on civil liberties and foreign policy.

[marmar]

61. Sorry, but that's not a serious question.

And if it was intended to be serious, a few Google searches would have saved you a lot of face.

[War Horse]

62. Paul on abortion...

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/52941.html

http://www.ontheissues.org/tx/ron_paul.htm

And on JBS, for good measure...

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/04/05/ron-paul-endorses-the-john-birch-society.php

[PeaceNikki]

65. No. Ron Paul is batshit crazy. Ron Paul hates you.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/06/05/343328/-Ron-Paul-Hates-You