Played the "personal responsibility card" at the grocery store today

[TwixVoy]

I have to admit - the personal responsibility card is great fun.

Most ground level republicans are uneducated, poor, and generally have made bad choices in life based on hateful personalities. They really love to blame others, and come across as if they have done everything right in life compared to everyone else. I have found that in 99% of the cases once you actually start to know a little personal information about these people the exact opposite is true. Almost always their life is a self made train wreck.

This morning I had a very interesting encounter with a republican in line at the grocery store.

So I'm standing in a line of about 4 people. The cashier and person being checked out were speaking in spanish to each other. Here's the thing - I always shop at this store and have spoken to this cashier several times before. She's a really nice person that is just working part time while going through school.

This bitter looking 50 year old white person was standing in front of me and CLEARLY said in earshot of the cashier "you need to learn to speak english. you're in america.". I think to myself this is going to be interesting. So I quietly tell her "yea I know what you mean the whole country is turning mexican. I can't even go anywhere without seeing everything in spanish it's ridiculous". All of a sudden she's completely open to me. After all we must think alike.

So I got to talking to her and asked why she felt that way. "It's because of these mexicans that I can't pay my bills. If it wasn't for them I know I would be making more money because they are taking all of our jobs like this cashier." Ok heard that one before.

So I setup my personal responsibility card. I don't say anything at all that could provoke her. I just keep casually agreeing with everything she says. I get to casually asking some questions. Turns out she hates the president and her education consists of "some bible college classes", and she's been working a customer service job at Kmart for the past 10+ years. (I've found most republicans I play this card with fall in to the same category. Hate everyone different than them, low educational attainment, low paying job, etc.)

So I ask her what she meant when she said she can't pay her bills. Turns out she had her $30K car repossessed, got in on the mortgage disaster with a NINJA loan and an interest payment only mortgage so she just lost her house, makes $10/hour, and generally made bad choices in life. Of course this was all worded to suggest none of this was her doing.

So by this point it is my turn to get checked out so I tell her "well nice talking to you I've got to get checked out now".

So while the young cashier is checking me out I say to her "Hey good to see you again. How's school coming along?" She tells me it's going along great and I ask her what her major was again. She replies "I'm getting my bachelors in nursing. I'm actually finishing at the end of the summer semester and I'm hopefully going to have a job at the hospital after that."

The racist fu** I was talking to was standing right behind me in line and could hear everything.

So I say to the cashier "Wow that's awesome. You're going to have a great job and get places in life. I know it takes a lot of hard work and intelligence to get in to nursing. You're probably going to be making six figures in no time. You know just a minute ago I was talking to some idiot loser who couldn't even make it through bible college, never had the initiative to get out of working retail, made bad choices in life and had her car that she couldn't afford repossessed and her house that she took out an interest only loan for foreclosed on, and was pissed there wasn't any jobs available at this store for her. Since you're on your way out though I bet she'd be happy to know this job is about to be available"

So I turn to the racist fu** and say to her "Hey good news. I just found out this job you wanted is about to be open. It looks like you can move on up from Kmart now." She was speechless. I then grabbed my receipt and walked out. The look on her face was priceless.

Today is looking to be a great day.

[seabeyond]

1. republicans are such hypocrites with personal responsibility. i use it all the time

pisses 'em off, lol.

[Zoeisright]

2. OMG you're my hero. And you should get the Nobel Prize.

<bowing>

[Occulus]

311. May I piggyback so this is up top? IT IS NEVER WRONG TO FIGHT BACK!

If we are to believe the story as written, all the OP did was to apply the same standards the racist bigot was using to herself. If it's fictional, it's still a great thought experiment.

There are many people below this post calling the way this was handled 'wrong' or worse.

I'm gay. I know it isn't wrong to do this. We queers use this same sort of tactic all the time against conservative Christians because we know they never live up to their own standards. We know they fold up and blow away when we apply their own ideas to them, and we know doing it publicly is the best way to shut them down. We have been doing this for years, if not decades. We've been doing it for that long because we know that "reaching out" to these people does us no good, and often great harm.

Those who are criticizing the OP over the tactics used definitely owe an apology. This is the only way to school some people, and the fact that appearing to be 'one of them' made the bigot comfortable enough to take the bigotry even further (and stupidly, in public) made those tactics completely acceptable. The beautiful, stunningly effective twist was that the OP put it all in very personal terms, right out where everyone could hear it.

Bigots and racists like the one described in the OP are totally all about public shaming. Well, now one of them got shamed in public. That so many on this thread are feeling sorry for the bigot when she may well be sitting at home re-evaluating her own views because of this incident really says something, and nothing good, about many of the people here. The tactics related in the OP are tried-and-true and almost always shut the bigots down.

Then again, the opposition to this should come as no surprise to me. Again, I'm gay. I know all too well what we're thought of here at DU. Given that, the condemnation of the OP shouldn't come as a shock to me at all...

[ergot]

320. It's weird how all the morons he meets have a few bible college classes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=679502

[elleng]

3. ...

:rofl:

[lunatica]

4. Good for you but

I betcha if you were to find yourself in line with her again soon and she didn't recognize you she would do exactly the same thing, only she'd add that "That cashier is taking my job which pays for her to take my classes in nursing if I had the money that she has because she's taking my job."

I call it hamster thinking. They never get off the same wheel going nowhere but back to the exact same spot forever.

See, it's all about them being victimized no matter what. They love being the victim because that way they can blame everyone else.

[Maru Kitteh]

52. Hamster thinking. Thats a good way to describe it. n/t

[dotymed]

299. Coincidentally (?)

If you talk to most prisoners, it is the same view.

Most of them that I have known blame everyone but themselves.

With America's incarceration rate, possibly a lot of them are correct in their views, I'm not sure. I just happened to think of them when I read this. I have been in jail decades ago, thankfully no felony, and I have also volunteered with parolees. The thing that I noticed the most was that they usually blamed everyone but themselves.

Ironically, many of these impoverished, undereducated (but human) people (mainly white males) considered themselves republicans. Most had never voted yet they identified with neo-con philosophy. Ironically, at least the few black or hispanic guys (who actually are the majority in custody) I spoke with actually did understand that progressive policies would have lessened or even prevented their crimes. IDK., at the time I was concentrating on addiction.

Stockholm syndrome?

p.s. most returned to incarceration because being poor is illegal in America, especially when you have a never-ending "debt to society" to pay-aka-for profit probation fee's

[The Traveler]

5. Bada bing, bada boom!

:rofl:

That is absolutely priceless! Well done, I say! Well done!

:toast: :fistbump: :yourock: :applause:

[Aristus]

6. Bravo!

:applause:

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. I wish we had these kinds of grocery stores in my town.

Nothing exciting ever happens to me. I just get stuck behind the lady with the fifty billion store fliers because my store matches everyone's price. :(

[bluestate10]

187. My grocery store is pretty progressive. I don't see racists there,

and pretty much all of the cashiers are bilingual.

[auntAgonist]

8. As long as people are baited we will never come together

as a whole.

Some see you as heroic in your tale and that's their perogative.

I see it as baiting someone and then coming off as high and mighty by calling her a racist f*ck.

I'm glad you're going to have a great day now ..


aA

[Jackpine Radical]

12. Yes. See my # 11 below, which I was no doubt writing as you posted this.

[whathehell]

14. I agree....I see this as baiting and find it smug and mean-spirited.

[snooper2]

355. maybe you can track the lady down

and give her a hug?

as long as you are white of course...

[alphafemale]

60. We're NEVER going to come together with these hateful fucks.

They don't want to join us at the table of brotherhood.

They want to nail up the doors and windows of our houses while we are inside douse it with gasoline and set it ablaze.

They will dance to our dying screams.

They will get joy from it.

The time is long past to cut them off at the knees and publicly expose them for what hey are at every chance.

Fuck them.

[Odin2005]

85. There is no coming together with hateful racist fucks.

[Zywiec]

116. +1

I always hate posts that start out:

So there I was waiting in line... blah, blah, blah

Most of the time I think they are creative writing, the others are typically some mean spirited shit.

Whatever.

[slampoet]

129. In order to be baited there needs to be a person doing the baiting.

This was a person picking up the pieces the racist HANDED her.

You are attributing a bad connotation improperly. Baiting requires premeditation.

[auntAgonist]

139. No I didn't. The OP reacted to a comment. He/She had

a choice of how to react. The OP admitted to leading the woman to talk about herself. OP BAITED the woman and then landed his/her so called zinger.

I think to myself this is going to be interesting. So I quietly tell her "yea I know what you mean the whole country is turning mexican. I can't even go anywhere without seeing everything in spanish it's ridiculous". All of a sudden she's completely open to me. After all we must think alike.

That, is baiting pure and simple.

the OP thought about it and executed it albeit badly.

aA

[slampoet]

191. You are negating the behavior of the racist.

NO ONE goes along with that kind of stuff unless they are indeed racist.


You can't argue your way out of that free choice.

[Name removed]

198. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MedicalAdmin]

244. Okaaaay.

You saying you can't argue with fools is like someone saying they don't beleive in TV.

They may not believe in it, but it exists. You may not believe in arguing with fools, but you are arguing with someone you beleive to be. The cognitive disconnect is, er, unbelievable.

FYI - I'm not alerting, but calling someone a fool is against the rules.

[Obamanaut]

326. Do you mean the 'imaginary' behavior of the 'imaginary' racist? nt

[Zoeisright]

235. Oh bull shit. These people are bullies.

And they need to be beaten down. That's the only way they will learn. If they can learn.

[Le Taz Hot]

247. Amen and thank you.

I read into it exactly the same thing. The first paragraph told me all I really needed to know:

"Most ground level republicans are uneducated, poor, and generally have made bad choices in life based on hateful personalities."

This us = good and smart, them = bad and stupid is applying simplicity to a complex world, EXACTLY what the OP was accusing the person in line of doing. I find that compassion and education is a better way to go. If they reject it, then that's on them, but I don't GO OUT OF MY WAY to humiliate people.

[pecwae]

254. AA, it's incredibly good

to see you! Wish it was under better circumstances here. You've countered some unbelievable fantasy in a stand up manner.

[jeff47]

278. Why would they come together?

In order for those on the right to decide to "come together", they're going to have to want to do so.

They never have.

Why is it we on the left are ordered to compromise over and over again, while those on the right must be handled with kid gloves?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

286. agreed.

TA

[adigal]

300. Do you really think we are coming together with these people??

OK, keep thinking that while they continue to vote for people who will continue to give all of our wealth to the rich in tax cuts and cut Social Security, unemployment and Medicare.

Time for us to all wake up - these people are dangerous to our way of life, really. We need to make sure they are outnumbered at the voting booth.

[Faygo Kid]

9. Another Tea Party tool. Fools.

They will never realize how they are being used. Pathetic.

[southernyankeebelle]

10. That personal responsibility will get them every time. However, there is one thing I would like to

say to people like you. Not all people who don't go to college and only go to high school aren't stupid. I have worked all my life never going to college and always paid my own bills. Never got a hand out from anyone. The only time I went to the unemployment office because I could find a job I cried. But before I got my first check I was able to find a job. Don't put all people in that same boat. Sometimes circumstances put us in places we have to be in. Plus not all people are made to go to college. But you are right about people like this woman. But I am a social democrat long before it was fashionable. You see I happen to believe government takes our taxes and that is fair but we should help people with programs that they put their money into. I am sick of the government bashing.

[TwixVoy]

15. All I have is my high school diploma too

I just happen to think that if some racist fu** is going to stand around and imply that someone is a moron because her skin is brown and comes from a different culture you better damn well know what you're talking about before making some smart ass remark to her.... and you better damn well have some impressive credentials yourself..... otherwise it might have negative results as it did in this case....

[Jackpine Radical]

28. OK, there's another subtext I want to address. Intelligence.

(And I really hope you don't take this as my picking on you; it was really this kind of discussion, with me in your role, that led to some growth on my part.)

It is quite possible, maybe even likely, that this woman is below average in IQ, which would be another source of many shaming life experiences, and a reason why she has to imagine that others are inferior to her.

[Mimosa]

338. ^ JackPine, the same thought occurred to me ^

If this incident indeed happened as described, it's nothing to be proud of.

Funny how when these type of stories are related it's always the 'progressives' who are put off. Maybe we have more empathy?

[auntAgonist]

29. And then, how did you know what the "racist fu**" had for credentials?

How did you know what had ever gone on in HER life to cause her to make such an admittedly nasty statement?

You didn't know, you had NO way to know .. yet you baited her.


I've never ever heard remarks like that in any store I've been in. I've traveled the entire USA, never once witnessed a scene like you describe.


aA

[TwixVoy]

32. That's because I understand hateful fu**s a little better than you do

I've learned debating with these people just shuts them down. Play along like you agree with them though and they'll open up to a HUGE rant in which you can find out a great deal in a short amount of time. You've never gotten them to open up to you because you've never played along. Once you get some information about their flaws it's quite easy to play their little game.... except all of a sudden they are at the receiving end.

The way I see it I stood up for a defenseless person. The cashier couldn't defend her self because racist fu** would likely complain and cause her trouble.

I don't really care about her situation. She made a CHOICE to be a bully today just like she made a CHOICE to blame others for her own actions. Rule number one with a bully is to stand up to them. A bully doesn't care if you understand them, but they do care if someone fights back.

I gave her a chance to open up to me. All I got was "mexican this" and "mexican that". Had she had any TRUE hard luck story for her situation in life I'm sure it would have consisted of more than "Because of the mexcians....". Sorry she got her chance to make a VALID excuse for her behavioral problems. She failed to provide one.

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. You do? Then how do you know what auntAgonist's credentials are

for understanding hateful fu**s?

I'm sorry, but I'm having difficulty believing the story you have written, as written. I live in Houston, TX. We have a wide and diverse culture... I go to the grocery store often. I wish just once one of these stories would happen to me.

[TwixVoy]

42. LOL

Well of course you haven't seen anything like this before! It's hard to see anyone stand up to these people when your personal philosophy is to let them walk all over you.

[ScreamingMeemie]

46. You got all that about me from just one post?

Holy Cwap!

I would love to have a situation happen like this. Unfortunately they just don't happen.

[TwixVoy]

49. They don't happen

Because you don't make them happen. Try standing up to these people once and a while. It's not very difficult to run circles around them.

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. There's no one here, in public places, to stand up to.

Are you suggesting I quiz the people in front of me in the line to find out what their politics are? Honest to goodness, fully 30% ( a guess on my part) of the people I interact with on a day to day basis (I'm a no account, convenience store cashier btw) speak either broken English or Spanish. I have never heard one person tell them to "speak proper English". Are you suggesting that I do this, and then turn the tables on them???

[TwixVoy]

58. I am not suggesting you quiz anyone

I am simply suggesting you have a CONVERSATION with another human. Find out about them. What you do with that information is your own business.

This does not happen every day. In fact the last time I was able to play one of these people was several months ago. I could have let it go like you would, but that's not my style.

[ScreamingMeemie]

61. How do you know I would let it go? All of these assumptions. Boy howdy!

Here's what I am saying. These opportunities just don't come up here. Now...if one of my friends or neighbors said something like "Gee I wish those Mexicans would just speak English. They're in America now..." I would say something and I have. What I'm saying is there is something about this story that rings funny.

[TwixVoy]

62. Wonderful

I am glad everything is sunshine and roses in your community.

Try visiting us in the red states. Try a visiting a state in which a black man still has to fear driving through small towns. These people are far more common than you seem to realize.

[ScreamingMeemie]

65. You aren't even reading are you?

Did you not read the part where I said I live in Houston, TX? :shrug:


Edited to add link where, in this conversation I let you know that I lived in a red state:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1327727&mesg_id=1327987

[TwixVoy]

70. Well then

You must live a very sheltered life. You're in a red state. The vast majority of people around you openly vote for hate. The governor wants to commit treason and break away from the United States. They are not ashamed of it. If somehow you are unaware of this then I don't know what to tell you.

[ScreamingMeemie]

73. My neighbors on either side had Obama signs in their yards.

:shrug:

Honestly, who's doing the most stereotyping here? "You must live a very sheltered life"...again, an assumption. I had a child at 19, my husband passed away at 37, and it sucks raising a 12 year old boy without his beloved Dad. I have a nice home, but cannot afford health insurance (pre-existing) and am often told "too bad". I work as a convenience store clerk and would really love it if someone had the balls to talk like that in my line. Mostly they talk about how freaking hot it is. I have had people make assumptions about me based on my position as a convenience store clerk (I mainly do it to get out of the house, and it's right around the corner and I set my own hours).

[TwixVoy]

76. I feel like I am having a repeat of my conversation this morning

"My neighbors on either side had Obama signs in their yards."

And this disputes my argument that you are living a sheltered life in your red state how exactly? This does not negate the fact that Texas is clearly home to a huge number of republicans based simply on the election results every election. I'm glad that you feel comfortable, but you should be aware that most of your neighbors vote for some of the most extreme right wingers in the nation. They hate you even if they act like they don't.

"I have had people make assumptions about me based on my position"

Everyone here knows I worked retail for years. I've had countless ass holes make smart comments to me in that time. Now that I am free of retail I make it my mission to stand up for others still stuck in that vulnerable position when some bully decides to take advantage of the situation. I can tell you having been a retail worker that I would have appreciated someone coming to my defense because my job would have been on the line had I defended myself.

[ScreamingMeemie]

79. Because, and I tried to put it nicely...

even here in a red state, your story is just too "I can't believe what happened to me".

No, everyone here does not know that you worked in retail for several years. And FWIW, most Americans spend at least a little bit of time working in some sort of "retail". I'm sorry to burst your bubble.

No, red states are not all anti Hispanic, run into nasty comments every day BS...

I applaud those who stand up for others, I don't applaud your actions (whether they happened or not) because they didn't solve anything. But I really doubt you're reading these posts. After all you missed the "I live in Texas" of my post right before you responded to me, "try living in a red state".

Do these things happen? Yes, in "friendly" discussions at private events all of the time. Do they happen out loud in public places? Not so much where I live. I wish they did because it would be a fab opportunity to educate, although I wouldn't lie to draw someone into my game.

I'll go back to living my sheltered life now... :rofl:

[TwixVoy]

81. If red states are not anti hispanic (and anti every other minority)

why do they continue to elect representatives that make that their agenda?

[ScreamingMeemie]

83. Try reading what I am posting to you and then responding to me.

That isn't what I said. But you know that already. Does it exist? Hell yes. Does it exist out loud and in public? Not at my grocery store.

Here is the one grocery store anecdote I have for you. My son and I were shopping and there was an idiot walking around in a tea bagger t shirt. My son and I ended up in an aisle right behind him. I had a fun conversation with my son. "We forgot drinks!" "Should we get some tea maybe?" "Nah... suddenly I can't stand tea anymore." It let the man know I thought he was an idiot (at least I hope it did).

[ergot]

316. Usually these kinds of fanciful literary inventions begin "So I was doing xxx at the yyy today,

:evilgrin:

[SwampG8r]

347. this is why i stay out of GD

its like a proctologists office
i also smell the stink of fakery here

[Obamanaut]

149. If you are free of retail, what are you now doing? There was the application w/ McDonalds,

and a job at under $8/hr (that's often retail of some sort), and then way back the move to Portugal.

Leaving soon for Portugal to live with son May 2010

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8445924

So, how did the Portugal visit go? Did you find work? Was Portugal everything you expected, or anything like you expected? What made you come back to the US


Well, I have a new job March 18, 2011

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=679502

That job must not have been great

Applied at McDonalds April 19, 2011
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=924695

[XanaDUer]

153. I know it's wrong, but I had to come back to this train wreck of a thread

Um, it looks like the disagreeable co-worker at McDonald's also seems to have taken some Bible classes at Bible school.

I wonder were they standing in line at Mickey D's, serving themselves, when this converso happened?

[auntAgonist]

157. +100.

Nice post, thank you.

aA
:hi:

[sufrommich]

172. Oh My God. lol. nt

[vanbean]

313. Sheesh, Talk about busted.

[cherokeeprogressive]

360. Let's address some of your bullshit about Texans and their cultural/political makeup, shall we?

"Texas is clearly home to a huge number of republicans based simply on the election results every election." Let's take a little gander at reality in the context of your statement, shall we?

Do you see Texas on this list?



Apparently, Gallup saw Texas as politically competitive as far back as 2008



2008 General Election results contradict your claim that Texas is republican to the extent that you imply. A difference of only 2 percentage points means nearly HALF of all Texans who voted, voted for Barack Obama.

[tammywammy]

115. I live in Arlington, much 'redder' than Houston and even I don't hear crap like that.

Not at work, not at the grocery store, not when I'm chatting with neighbors, etc.

[Dorian Gray]

84. Please

you have to MAKE it happen, then stand up to them?

Why the hell would I MAKE this happen? I don't want to hear ignorant people spout ignorant things. Why would i enable them to do so only to turn on them? That's insane.

[Le Taz Hot]

249. LOL!

I see I now owe sacrifices to the gods and goddess of The Great Karmic Irony. Passing judgment on someone without ever meeting them. Clutch the pearls!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1318361#1321242

[snooper2]

357. You need to listen more...Just a couple weeks ago I was in line at Tom Thumb

where I never usually go but had to stop for something..

Was in line and Mexican lady was taking her time writing a check. I was next in line, behind me I hear this old white fuck mumble "stupid mexicans"...

When it was my turn I took my good ol' time... Slow as possible..Told the checker the racist asshole behind me can wait just a little bit longer. I'm trying to make his day even more shitty. Glanced over and the old fart was fuming but wouldn't mumble a word. Of course the guy at the register didn't say anything but "have a nice day" when I finally took the receipt :)

[auntAgonist]

38. "She made a CHOICE to be a bully today.." So did YOU.

You also have NO way of knowing what I understand and what I don't understand.

She wasn't obligated to provide you with any valid excuse for anything. You baited her, plain and simple.

It's people like you who give the more compassionate a bad name.

That's what I understand.

aA

[TwixVoy]

40. You're right. How wrong of me.

Republican bullies should be able to verbally attack anyone they like and face no opposition.

I'm sure had I agreed with everything she said and ended the day with a high five she would be voting democratic next election. What a fool I've been.

I concede to you. Still I had great fun today.

[XanaDUer]

47. Did she say she was a Republican?

Many times people in lower socioeconomic brackets don't even bother to vote, since they see it as useless, and little changes in their lives anyway. Not always, but I guess their lives are so chaotic and crappy, hanging on takes up most of their time.

I hope you did change her mind, made her think about some of her assumptions about other people, and gave her food for thought.

[whathehell]

75. There's a term for people

who have "great fun" by being mean to people...Sadist.

[PavePusher]

91. I've found that a simple "asshole" needs less translation.... YMMV. n/t

[whathehell]

95. I'd appreciate it if you'd do some translating of "YMMV" for me. n/t.

[auntAgonist]

97. Your Mileage May Vary ..

:)

[whathehell]

108. That's good too...Thanks! n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

98. Your Method May Vary.

[whathehell]

107. Thank you! n/t

[Raine]

169. YOU had "great fun today"

so as long as you had "fun" that's what's important. :sarcasm: Even more "fun" posting this STORY with changing details in the DU. First the "bitter" person is in front of you than suddenly behind you, the "bitter" person in front started it but then again you "made it happen". Geeesh at least make your STORY details consistant. :yoiks:

[ergot]

315. Oh, fooey, it's a parable...it doesn't have to make any sense.

:rofl:

[Occulus]

224. Hmm. No, responding to bullies in kind ISN'T bullying.

But thanks for playing.

[Dappleganger]

183. In agreement, you did well...

ignore the ones who are obviously clueless.

[xphile]

45. Perhaps you should reread the OP. The racist fuck's lack of credentials

were established while they were waiting on line. The racist fuck told her everything she needed to know.

Not sure why you're so worried about the racist fuck though. She had it coming.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Duppers]

234. aA, I heard people like this all over the south

They have to feel that you're 'one of them' before they start bashing minorities.

Make them feel comfortable with you & they'll assume that.

[cordelia]

239. I've heard people like this all over the north,

east, and west.

They have to feel that you're 'one of them' before they start bashing minorities. Or a region.

Make them feel comfortable with you & they'll assume that.

[pecwae]

256. Thank god you posted that!

I was wondering where and when the obligatory South bashing would pop up.

[Duppers]

331. :(

I spent the first 29yrs of my life in Tenn!!!

I'm speaking from first-hand experience, including extended family doing this!!

Not all southerners are like this, obviously, and I'll get snarky too if anyone suggests WE ALL are!!!

The 'younger' generation shows promise in ditching these attitudes, but I'm again generalizing.

[undeterred]

215. You're awfully arrogant for someone who only has a HS diploma.

[olegramps]

265. With the massive loss of industrial jobs the lack of advanced education can be a disadvantage.

Not everyone is suited to succeed in college. One of the tragic results of outsourcing has been the lack of entry level jobs for high school graduates. In today's market, people with college degrees are competing for service entry level jobs that twenty years ago they never would have applied for. When you have an opening who are you going to choose if its between a college graduate and someone with a high school diploma? The loss of our basic industrial jobs has been a disaster with far reaching consequences. The situation will only continue to deteriorate until the playing field is leveled for the American worker by imposing tariffs on products produced by exploited workers.

[undeterred]

275. Great spin.

[Mimosa]

339. ^ WOW, that's the truth! ^

You're right, olegramps. *smile*

[Jackpine Radical]

11. The problem I have with this is that most of those very angry people

got that way from a variety of shaming experiences. You just detailed some of the failures in this woman's life and slapped her with them. You met hateful with hurtful. The end result is one more shaming experience in her already long list. In other words, you just gave her another public dose of the medicine that made her what she is. I'm sorry but I don't see how this is helpful.

This is a sort of realization that is dawning slowly on me. The followers of the psychopathic Right--themselves not psychopathic, but looking to the Becks and Limbaughs of the world as their guides in directing their anger and externalizing the blame--those people were driven to their present station in life by internalizing the message that the world is a nasty and hateful place. I just don't see how adding to their experiences of the nastiness causes any long-term good.

[TwixVoy]

17. Nothing new here

The Nazi's played the scapegoat card and the ones who want to blame everyone different than them followed.

The same game is being played here. They don't need Beck as a ringleader.... if he didn't exist they would still be hateful tools.

I believe that it is simply in their nature. IMO once a bigot leaves the teenage years (the last point to effectively turn them) and remains a bigot as an adult it is VERY difficult to change them. It doesn't matter what you do at that point.

[auntAgonist]

22. thank you!!

[cordelia]

33. Thank you.

[druidity33]

147. "You met hateful with hurtful"

I would disagree with that sentiment. It looks to me as if she met hateful with truthful. As for the people here who don't believe these comments get uttered aloud... i have news for you, i live in "liberal" Massachusetts and i hear snide under the breath comments all the time at the bar i used to work at. When people feel they are safe to spout, they will. Only when other people challenge them do they clam up. It's called a come-uppance and it has a long history in our society. It's a shame this one was delivered unto another of America's unfortunates and not a misery-causer (banker, CEO, etc)... but hopefully it opened her eyes to her own hate.

:shrug:

[Dappleganger]

181. That woman brought on all that shame on HERSELF...

I'll bet she never had anyone show her a mirror so she could see just how deluded she really is.

[uponit7771]

240. I don't agree with that, people USUALLY get that way from wrong teaching. People aren't "shamed" ...

...into bigotry and intolerance.

[freedom fighter jh]

245. +1

[Le Taz Hot]

248. Sanity. Compassion. Empathy.

What concepts! I like it when the grown-ups post. Thank you, JR.

[RSillsbee]

282. If I could rec a single post...

Life is hard enough w/ out me going out of my way to make another person's day worse.

[Occulus]

307. "You met hateful with hurtful."

Ugly truths hurt.

[XanaDUer]

13. I'm sure she just thinks you're an elitist snob

Sadly, this poor 50-year-old woman is a victim, and is deflecting the blame, as is human nature, off on "the other". I doubt she went home and changed her mind about her position in the world. Depending upon many factors, perhaps a Bible college was all she was offered in life, and was lucky to get that. Living in a consumerist, materialistic culture like America, that shows poor people on TV and in 24/7 ads how they should be living (SUV- unaffordable house), I'm not surprised this type of thing happens a lot in America. After all, Americans are the luckiest people in the world, with the highest standards of living, yadda bladda, you know the drill that's drilled into our heads all the time here...

[whathehell]

16. The message could have been delivered in a nicer, and frankly, more productive way.

I think the OP enjoyed this a little too much.

[XanaDUer]

19. I understand how the OP feels

But, like Jackpine Radical above, I find myself wanting to be less aggressive with them, and more open to hearing not only the what of what they think, but the why, which is more important.

America has a solid underclass, probably like this lady, who have very little given to them as they grow up. Basically, it was not until I moved out of the bubble I grew up in and saw the realities of the majority of Americans' lives, am I starting to see the classicism that pervades all strata of society in these here United States.

[TwixVoy]

21. I disagree

If anything I believe that the shock and realization she experienced was far more effective than simply arguing with her. If anything it made her more receptive to the message not less.

[XanaDUer]

24. But how do you know that?

nt.

[TwixVoy]

26. Basic psychology

Had I argued with her she would have been immediately defensive and likely dismissed anything I said to her (no matter how logical) out of hand. She also would have left feeling that she was right about everything.

The way I played this had the following benefits:

1. She was not in defensive mode blocking everything out.

2. She was able to see that her previous misconceptions about the brown person were wrong.

3. She was able to see how her own life choices compared to that of the brown person and perhaps being brown is less important than the choices one makes in life.

If she is too stupid or ignorant to reflect on any of these points at the end of the day then that's a pity.

[The Doctor.]

39. You are quite correct.

And I must add; that was near-perfect execution. I would be hard-pressed to match that.

The juxtaposition of her life with the cashier's was cast so starkly, the blow will likely not wear off for days. I daresay you likely left a permanent indentation in her sorry psyche.

I'm very much going to remember your approach. I usually http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1228664">ask questions till they hang themselves, but yours was far more elegant.

Very well done.

[whathehell]

48. Oh sure..

Public humiliation works wonders on the learning process, lol.

This could have been done in a nicer way,

unfortunately, I don't think you or the OP

would have enjoyed it quite as much.:eyes:

[TwixVoy]

54. I would argue that yes, public humiliation works

It is a deterrent not an educational tool.

I feel that this is where you and I are disagreeing.

You are under the impression I did this to educate. I did not. I did it to deter.

Had she simply made the comment to me I would have tried to educate. Unfortunately she decided to attack and bully a person she knew was defenseless. (a person at her job who could not argue with her, and very possibly could have been the one who ended up crying and going home feeling ashamed of her own culture) Therefore this was an action designed to deter. She will think twice before trying to bully a person she THINKS is defenseless again.

[whathehell]

68. Really?....Has it worked with you?

Has it "deterred" you from your high-handed correctional techniques?

I'm sorry, but I think what you did to this woman was worse than what she did to the cashier.

You ASSUME that just because the complainer was white and the cashier was Hispanic that the former

was in a "better place" than the cashier, who was likely to "go home feeling ashamed of her own cultute"..Please,

If she was going to school, she likely had the self-respect and intelligence to avoid that scenario.

I would ask you to re-consider the facts: She, unlike the 50 year old, was in SCHOOL getting educated, and I bet she was younger

as well.

I have worked at service jobs where my situation was "taken advantage of" in that sense as well,

and I could handle it myself, never needing anyone to "come to my rescue".

I bet this smart cashier could have done the same.

[ScreamingMeemie]

71. +1

From a 40-something white convenience store clerk.

[TwixVoy]

74. Did you actually understand my argument?

In answer to your question no - this has nothing to do with deterring me. It has to do with deterring bullies.

"If she was going to school, she likely had the self-respect and intelligence to avoid that scenario."

True, of course bully didn't know this and assumed otherwise. How many others will this bully direct her vile to who aren't as fortunate as the cashier? How many will go home feeling ashamed of who they are while bully gets to go home joyful with herself?

"I could handle it myself, never needing anyone to "come to my rescue". "

Everyone here knows I spent several years in retail. Trust me friend - I know how retail workers handle it. They handle it in a way which won't cause them trouble at work. Which means having to sit there and silently take it. Not only was this a win for this cashier and minorities, but it was a win for retail workers in general. I had not considered that and I thank you for brining that to my attention. I actually did more good today than I had realized.

[whathehell]

93. I not only understood it, I responded to it in a way that should have made that clear

"In answer to your question no - this has nothing to do with deterring me. It has to do with deterring bullies".

Umm...Right..Well, it seems you don't do subtlety, so I guess I'll just have to spell it out:

I think, as do a number of others here, it seems, that you acted acted like a bully

with that "poor, uneducated" 50 year woman.


I'm glad "everyone here knows" you "spent several years in retail".

There's only about 170,000 personal stories here.:eyes:, but then

again, one does get the feeling you think yourself "noteworthy"


You just keep going, girl...I'm sure no one can tell you ANYTHING.

Good bye and good luck!

[auntAgonist]

100. +100 n/t

[Shining Jack]

78. +1 n/t

[The Doctor.]

113. Lol... I take it you've been living in isolation for the last decade.

You're suggesting that by attempting to be somehow 'polite' or 'diplomatic', people like that woman will suddenly become contemplative and introspective?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


No, they don't. You've obviously never tried to get through to one of these fundie tea-party types. I managed to get one http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1228664">to admit he was a hypocrite, but did that make him think for a second that he might be wrong about anything?

Not. Even. Slightly.


What is to be 'enjoyed' here is not, as you apparently envisage, 'cruelty' or 'meanness', but the simple fact of someone otherwise totally ignorant and irresponsible being confronted with their own undeniable ineptitude without the ability to escape it. To trap someone in a moment of inescapable self-realization, which has the potential to enlighten an otherwise wretched person and bring about positive change for them is joyous.

Being 'diplomatic' only allows them to slither away from such a trap.


But, since you're so sure this was gone about wrong, how about you tell us exactly how you would have handled it in such a way to bring enlightenment to this creature?

[whathehell]

120. Lol...I take it you don't take disagreement well?

First of all, I'm not sure it is my obligation, let alone within my ability

to "bring enlightenment" to this "creature", as you put it.

Unlike yourself and TwixVoy it seems, I don't imagine myself as

some self-anointed PC "cop", or "avenging angel of the oppressed"

In the case of this student cashier,

I almost wonder if it isn't a bit "patronizing"

to assume she needed "rescuing"....I've worked in situations like hers

and was capable of handling it on my own.

If I DID choose to get involved, it would probably be with a combination of

low key tactics:

A. I would make sympathetic "roll eye" contact with the cashier

B. Ignore the redneck or give her short, abrupt answers to let her know

I didn't agree or "approve" of her remarks.

[The Doctor.]

127. When someone disagrees with my notion that the Earth revolves around the Sun

I don't take it very seriously either.

I'm not at all concerned with anyone needing to be 'rescued' or whether you feel 'obligated' to do something or not. My very simple point is that you cannot get these creatures to actually examine their beliefs without a proverbial 'slap in the face'. I'm sure there are a very, very rare few who can be reasoned with, but you're more likely to find emeralds in your colon than one of those.

If you would go about it as your post describes, without the intention of enlightening the woman, then fine. Just stop arguing that these people can be made to see reason without being directly forced to look at their own stupidity while onlookers bear witness.

It simply doesn't work.

The internet allows people like her to espouse such beliefs without ever having to feel they are being personally scrutinized. I see it every day; someone makes a clearly ignorant or false statement on the internet, I point it out and show the facts, pin them down with a question, they leave and come back with the same exact belief over and over again.

Why?

Because they are not face to face with me.

Perfect example; A poster once said that 'Media Matters lies'. I responded by challenging them to post those 'lies'. He came back with three examples that not only did not constitute 'lies', but were editorialized in such a way to be laughable. I deftly dealt with each example, and thoroughly debunked any notion that they were 'lies' at all. (The closest one was a reprinted article that contained a false claim... which MM corrected anyhow.) After doing so, I spent about 5 minutes gathering up about 16 different and undeniably deliberate lies by Fox News (palm trees in WI), Rush Limbaugh, Newsbusters, and Bill O'reilly.

I asked the other poster to address them or admit that rightwing sources deliberately lie to their audience. He RAN from the challenge. I chased him, put the post back in his face again and again, he just made excuses and kept running away from the challenge. This is something he would not do were we physically in the same room. I have tested this many times, and wrong-headed people are very different face to face than over the internet.


This is a relatively new phenomenon. Think about this; 30 years ago, compared to today, people very rarely made false statements or stated something that they did not know to a degree of certainty. The reason for this was simple; they did not want to lack credibility or embarrass themselves. There was a time when people were cautious about information because in the public sphere they might lose face by repeating something false or erroneous. With the combination of consolidated media and the internet, people become disinformed by the media, and find venues on the internet, usually anonymous ones, where the possibility of public humiliation is virtually non-existent.

It is the removal of dialogue from the public/physical sphere which allows for the creation of groups of ignorant and hateful people who feel no shame about their attitudes. The only way to trigger any of that shame and hopefully self-examining behavior is to humiliate these people in the public sphere. Without abject humiliation in front of physical witnesses, these people can 'safely' return to their anonymous venues and self-reinforcing Fox 'News' echo chambers and continue to believe that their ideals are entirely acceptable.

This woman in the OP may attempt to do just that, but she has been irrevocably exposed to the reality that her beliefs are shameful in the public realm. She will not shake it anytime soon, and there even exists the chance she will examine those beliefs thanks to TwixVoy.

Personally, I believe it IS our responsibility to expose the ignorance, selfishness, lies, and hatred that these people carry around in public while in public. Otherwise they will continue to believe what they do and work, unbeknownst, against the best interests of the people and themselves. The public sphere is the best place to expose what these people carry because they cannot ignore the real-time shame and uncertainty over what they believe.

I will continue to do so, wherever I have the capacity, and whenever I get the chance.

[whathehell]

174. Sure...Except that if you were even close to being as confident in your opinion as you claim

you'd stop spending so much energy trying to "convince" me, LOL.

That aside, I can only imagine the outlandish arrogance of someone who would

even attempt to compare the "rightness" of their response in the situation

to that of "'my' notion that the earth revolves around the sun".:rofl:


Have a good time playing hero, bro...We can all see how much you enjoy it.

[The Doctor.]

188. I have no need to convince you.

You are just an instrument that gives me the reason to express and detail my position. It is obvious you have nothing intelligent to say about what I just said. I do not waste my efforts on those who are determined to be intellectually absent in a given discussion.

You could try to prove me wrong with an intelligent response, but that does not appear to be any kind of priority for you.

Thanks for the opportunity to post something the thoughtful folks might be interested in reading.

[whathehell]

228. You're funny.

I believe the "thoughtful folks" have already weighed in; even a cursory glance

at this thread would tell you that the vast majority agree with me, so good luck

with that.:hi:

[The Doctor.]

232. Wow.

Tell yourself whatever you like.

Here in reality, you have nothing intelligent to say in response beyond playground taunts. Keep it up if you must.

I'm plenty amused.

[whathehell]

263. I don't know what Ignored said

but I won't worry about it.:9

[Mimosa]

340. WtH, that's what *real people* do, in *real* situations...

If you catch my drift. ;)

[whathehell]

31. That's your privilege, but in my experience, public humiliation

rarely engenders much kindness or good will.

I think her "shock and realization" stemmed more from

the underhanded way she was "played", not

from any "tolerance" or "personal responsibility"

lesson you were ostensibly trying to teach her.

[XanaDUer]

36. I'd probably have a priceless look on my face, too, if I was chatting

with some stranger in a line and they came out with something the opposite of what we were talking about. I don't see anything in the OP about her crying, though some on here are saying she cried.

I would think, "Hmmm, met an interesting person today in the bank" or whatever.

But, who knows? Maybe this woman went out to her car and had a metanoia of epic proportions.

[whathehell]

43. I didn't say she cried...

and this woman obviously isn't you, is she?

I think you were right the first time.

[XanaDUer]

50. I never said you said she cried

And, no this woman is not me. :eyes: I was agreeing with you, actually.

I think I've seen enough of this thread.

Good luck.

[whathehell]

56. Back at ya!

[The Doctor.]

57. There is no doubt that the woman feels she was 'deceived', however;

The method TwixVoy used was not merely a 'slap in the face', it was well-calculated to force realization upon the woman. That it did. Given the disparity between the woman's and the cashier's 'life choices' presented in stark contrast, the woman will not be able to shake the very clear realization that she, at some point, failed the test of personal responsibility.

TV did the best possible job of getting through to an ignorant wingnut.

[whathehell]

106. I'm sorry...I disagree.

especially because "life choices" were not the only differences between the cashier and the fifty year old.

AS TwixVoy said, the cashier is "young"...Do you know how much of an advantage it is in the job market to simply be YOUNG?


Beyond that, how do you know that this woman had the "life choice"

of going to school?...If you're a doctor, I'd say

you're in a FAR better place than the "poor uneducated" woman you and TwixVoy

seem to enjoy knocking.:thumbsdown:

[TwixVoy]

112. Last I read 50% of 20 somethings were unemployed

Clearly it must be easy getting a job for the young.

[whathehell]

117. Really?....Then what percentage of fiftysomethings do you imagine are unemployed?

Must be all those K-mart workers taking up the good jobs:eyes:

[xphile]

51. Really? How?

Because I find that hateful assholes like the one discussed in the OP don't really respond to decently put arguments and only respond to a taste of their own nasty medicine.

[Skip Intro]

195. so you're judging individuals by stereotypes...

[xphile]

262. When someone goes on about a clerk and does so in racial terms you'

think it's a stereotype to categorize them as a racist fuck?

Wow no wonder this country is so fucked up racially speaking. You think it's worse to point out a racist fuck and treat them accordingly than to actually BE the racist fuck.

[Skip Intro]

194. Yep. nt

[xphile]

350. misread the thread never mind n/t

[Dappleganger]

184. She's a victim of herself.

[Hippo_Tron]

225. There's plenty of people with crappy circumstances who don't blame it on immigrants

This woman has a functioning brain. Why should her refusal to actually use it make her a victim?

[Walk away]

18. I have never met a republican who wasn't a racist.

Even people smart enough to stop at actual overt racism still like to drop little racist hints about "too many Spanish speaking people" in the hopes that I will agree and we can start a racist rant together. It must be like a secret hand shake.

[Lisa D]

20. I think it's sad

I wish you could have used the opportunity to educate her instead of beat her down with your words. With all those insults, I doubt she understood what you were really trying to say. But, you probably made her cry--so I guess you did accomplish something.

[TwixVoy]

25. I wonder if she would have shed any tears

had her racist comment made the young cashier cry. Bullies don't like a taste of their own medicine.

[Lisa D]

44. Giving someone a verbal beat down is also a form of bullying.

I think the woman's an ignorant jackass, probably surrounded by bigots her entire life and a big fan of Fox News. But she's still a human being and I don't belittle anyone, no matter how much they might deserve it. I try to educate them in a way they'll understand. I just feel you missed a great opportunity here. It probably made the cashier uncomfortable too. She still had to deal with this woman after you left.

[auntAgonist]

66. Well said Lisa D.

:hug:

[whathehell]

72. Agreed. n/t

[TwixVoy]

77. Sorry wrong

Once she fired the first shot she was fair game. You can't be a bully and then cry when someone stands up to you and play the victim.

[Lisa D]

128. But it still makes you a bully

I think we should be better than them.

[The Doctor.]

138. Right, because the solution to bullies is to, ummm....

Leave them to their bullying?

Encourage them?

Ummmm.... I'm drawing a blank here.


I really shouldn't be amazed at the naïvete here. This woman felt perfectly justified in vilifying a young girl out of racism and hatred. Now she knows that such behavior is not publicly acceptable thanks to TwixVoy.

I'm sure it's somehow a great idea to let these people feel that hatred and racism is somehow perfectly acceptable :eyes:. It just escapes me right now. Forgive me if I have a more difficult time finding sympathy for racists than you do.

[Lisa D]

165. I have no sympathy for racists.

I said before the woman is a racist jackass. But TwixVoy did nothing to alter her views on racism. Instead, TwixVoy belittled her lack of education, her poverty, and her difficulty in finding a job. How does that do anything but harden the hatred in her heart? The cashier, who didn't ask to be drawn into this little game, probably didn't appreciate it either. She was left to face this racist alone after TwixVoy got off the zingers and sauntered out the door.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind - Gandhi

[The Doctor.]

185. That is possible.

Unfortunately, if being forced to face one's own nastiness does nothing, then there is no way to get through to these people... ever.

I know it seemed harsh, but these people cannot be reasoned with. They will not listen to rational voices. They will just go about projecting their hatred on others until they are made to face what they are. I know you and many others want to 'play nice', but as I said in post #160, the substitution of a virtual forum for the public sphere lets people feel they do not need to be accurate or appropriate. It's here;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1327727#1329238

There is perhaps no other way to get through to these people.

If you allow people to act as nasty racists and bigots in public without shaming or humiliating them, why on Earth would you think they would change?

[1monster]

284. Amen. On all points. I worked retail for several years myself. I had a regular

customer, an elderly, rather eccentric man with a brilliant mind. Some of the other cashiers didn't like dealing with him, but I grew to like him.

After he left one day, the next customer in line made some comment about him. I don't remember what it was, but I felt the need to stand up for him. "Yes," I said, "he is a little eccentric, but his is very intelligent. Really brilliant."

I looked up from bagging whatever merchandice, and saw that he had come back for some reason or another. I was so embarrassed! Caught talking about a customer. Thank god I was saying something nice, although that eccentric comment bothered me.

Fortunatley, he was also nice and was flattered by the comment.

Had something like the OP described while I was working retail, I would have done my best to mitagate the utter nastiness to the person who, in the stress and bewilderment of having lost her car and her home clutched at what she had been led to believe was the cause.

And the truth is that Corporate America has used legal and illegal immigrants to lower pay and end our jobs. I just watched all five or six portions of Dan Rather Reports No Thanks for Everything (H1B Visas) on DU http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x593585 last night. The people who had their jobs taken away and given to others brough in on H1B visas expressed resentment against those brought in to take their jobs even though they were appalled by the way it might sound.

I don't blame the immigrants; they are being exploited too. This woman's may simply not understand the complicated reasoning behind the current job market and responded inappropriately.

The OP missed a great opportunity.

[Mimosa]

341. ^ Great post, IMonster ^

IMO, the OP is unbelievable at least to the extent it seems all embroidered. That cashier sure was SLOOOOW for all the conversation about educational background, bad loans, foreclosure, what type of car the woman drove... I've never hit it off so much with anybody in line at a grocery.In *real life* such conversations require at least some back and forth. To get all that information would take at least 15 minutes. And somebody would be wondering why the interrogator is so nosy.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[whathehell]

41. Unless someone can tell me what the difference between a "bitch slap"

and just a regular old "slap" is,

I'd have to call this for the offensively ugly,

(not to mention stupid) gender slur it is.


Please:eyes:

[felix_numinous]

27. You mentioned the R word!!! Next thing you'll be talking about is the S word!!

Social Responsibility------taboo concepts the Greed is Good! Party cannot tolerate for one second.

[leftygolfer]

30. If you make a Republican cry

an angel gets its wings

[Enthusiast]

252. And God kills a kitten.

Or something. :hi:

[Imajika]

34. You've pretty much advanced the cause nowhere by doing that..

"So I turn to the racist fu** and say to her 'Hey good news. I just found out this job you wanted is about to be open. It looks like you can move on up from Kmart now.' She was speechless. I then grabbed my receipt and walked out. The look on her face was priceless."

Glad you feel good, but that didn't win us a single vote. In fact, this bitter woman probably walked away hating you and everything you stand for more than ever.

"Most ground level republicans are uneducated, poor, and generally have made bad choices in life based on hateful personalities."

Pretty broad generalization and probably not very accurate. Most Republicans are not all stupid rednecks. Even if we assume your characterization of Republicans is true, human nature is what it is and you'll never change anyone's mind by making fun of them. You can maybe make them shut up temporarily, but you won't change the minds.

Perhaps a better approach would have been to let her blather on, give her credit for any worthwhile points or thoughts she had (even if it is something small - just so she feels your listening to her) and then thoughtfully make your counter points in a friendly way while sympathizing with her plight. She may not have agreed with you at the time, but it might open her eyes.

The key to changing people's views is to plant the seed of doubt in their minds that their worldview just might not be correct, and let them believe they've come to your conclusions all on their own.

[TwixVoy]

37. "Most Republicans are not all stupid rednecks"

In my defense I have to say that I qualified my statement. I preceded "republicans" with the term "ground level". Higher socioeconomic republicans do not all fall in this category, but the ground level lemming followers by and large do.

"Perhaps a better approach would have been to let her blather on, give her credit for any worthwhile points or thoughts she had"

And this is why we get our asses kicked in politics.

[Imajika]

63. I'm telling you that you can't persuade anyone...

...by making fun of them. Yes, you can expose their political ignorance or shame them into shutting up temporarily, but it won't change their mind.

If you, a thoughtful intelligent person, had listened to this woman's concerns, sympathized where possible and suggested in a friendly way that she consider different ideas that might help change her world for the better, she just might begin considering that her belief system is wrong. It won't happen right away, but by treating her at least decently you'd have given her no reason to hate the politics you stand for.

This is just a human nature thing. You are sort of like an ambassador for the cause. Shout at or make fun of people and they go defensive and generally won't really listen to you, be friendly and kind to people and they will be more open to your ideas. The key is really planting the seed in their mind and allowing them to come to your correct conclusion.

It is almost always better to be the happy, optimistic warrior. I hate that this motto has been applied to the likes of Reagan, but it really does tend to be true.

[TwixVoy]

67. How could I listen to her concerns?

"be friendly and kind to people and they will be more open to your ideas"

This is exactly what I did. I NEVER shouted at her or argued with her. Unfortunately all I got was a bunch of racist nonsense from being friendly and listening to her.

I listened to her, and then I told her I had to talk to the cashier now. I said nothing argumentative to her whatsoever. I'm sorry, but she said nothing I could sympathize with.

I sympathize with the cashier who can go home happy today that someone stood up for her when she was in a position of vulnerability.

[MedicalAdmin]

255. Like you I prefer the diplomatic approach. It fits my personality better... and yet ...

I remember that the civil rights movement needed MLK and Malcolm X, SNCC and the black panthers.

We all have our place and as long as our goals are worthy and the journey is being made, does it matter so much which road we take or shoes we wear to walk the walk?

[raccoon]

259. Good post. ITA. nt

[whathehell]

55. You are correct...Public humiliation and snarky meanness doesn't generally aid the learning process

but it will make the self-righteously snide feel good.

[TwixVoy]

59. Again I will say....

It is a deterrent not an educational tool.

I feel that this is where you and I are disagreeing.

You are under the impression I did this to educate. I did not. I did it to deter.

Had she simply made the comment to me I would have tried to educate. Unfortunately she decided to attack and bully a person she knew was defenseless. (a person at her job who could not argue with her, and very possibly could have been the one who ended up crying and going home feeling ashamed of her own culture) Therefore this was an action designed to deter. She will think twice before trying to bully a person she THINKS is defenseless again.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

130. I would say you did it to bully and thats about it, atleast thats how you come across in this thread

to me anyhow.

[druidity33]

154. I worked 15 years in retail...

i would've HUGGED you, and damn the job if i got fired for it. Thank you!

:)

[Odin2005]

92. These bigoted fucks will NEVER change their mind. EVER.

[FreeJoe]

64. It makes me sad...

...that you felt it was necessary to be mean.

[LeftyMom]

80. Wow, your grocery store must have the slowest lines in the world. nt

[tammywammy]

90. +1

I'm always amazed at these "this happened in the line at the store today" stories. In all my years, I have yet to hear anything of this sort at any store. I think the most exciting thing that ever happened at the grocery store was when this lady checking out left the line to go get something else. All her stuff was checked and we were waiting for her to get back to pay. It was quite annoying, we were waiting quite awhile. My fellow line waiters all just rolled our eyes. When she arrived back the guy behind me said something about how rude she was. That's it.

[auntAgonist]

104. ..

:rofl:

[Union Scribe]

220. *chuckle*

[Le Taz Hot]

268. +1

Very good! :applause:

[cwydro]

368. best post. nt

[cordelia]

82. I suspect that if this woman and her

family and friends don't already vote Republican they will from now on after that humiliating episode.

[BlueJazz]

86. That was a wonderful post. I love it !

:)

[Drale]

87. To be fair

They are not uneducated, just horrible undereducated. If they where completely uneducated, they would not have been able to figure out how to use the internet to complain.

[Scottybeamer70]

88. OMG..............

That is the funniest thing I have read in a long time.
As someone who can speak English and Spanish, I found it even more amusing.
People made fun of me when I started studying Spanish in college.......bet they aren't laughing now!
Thanks for the post...........made my day!

[PavePusher]

89. Bigotry from both the right AND the left. How extra-fucking-special we are.

I think I'm going to go throw up my breakfast now, then spend some time cleaning the house and pondering how sickening both political wings can be.

This'll be great for my weight-loss program.

[whathehell]

110. +10 n/t

[Raine]

175. Yeah ugly meets ugly

not a pretty sight. :puke: BOTH so hideously ugly I can't decide which is the ugliest. :puke:

[undeterred]

182. +1000000

[pecwae]

258. Well said.

[Odin2005]

94. Oh, SNAP!!!

[Lucian]

96. You got someone's life story standing in line at the grocery store?

That must have been the slowest line ever in a grocery store.

[itsrobert]

114. Happens in movies all the time

Life imitating art?

[Maraya1969]

99. I hope we all learn a lesson here. I feel bad about the way you are being

treated right now but I also understand that the woman could very well just not know about how to make and keep money. And that is par for the course for people who grow up poor.

So we can all take a lesson and stop hurting each other so much on and off this board.

:hug:

[Obamanaut]

101. How did you like living in Portugal? Was finding work there difficult?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8445924

[xphile]

102. I really find it unbelievable that there are so many who are so concerned for this

racist piece of filth and have little if any concern for the woman's potential victim.

So many people say nothing while some racist goes on about how this group and the other group is ruining anything then wait until there's not a damn thing that could be done to go on about how appalled they are.

Are they? Appalled that is?

It's hard to tell with all the gnashing of teeth for this racist woman you so properly cut down to size.

[ScreamingMeemie]

105. The story is too perfect.

I would be upset and called to arms if I thought it had actually happened, in the way that the poster said it did. I would be cheering him on if it wasn't so "involved" I guess. I also guess that should make me a bad person, for not just believing what I read on the internets.

[auntAgonist]

119. perfect.

perfectly fabricated I think.

aA

[Obamanaut]

141. I've wondered why no one reports a 'smack down' of a burly six foot male?

These "stories" always seem to have a woman, a pregnant woman, an old woman, a senior citizen, or a combination of these.

Never three members of a college rugby team, two men who look like professional wrestlers, a guy with 17" arms just getting off his Harley.

[auntAgonist]

178. Maybe they are not alive to talk about it?

:sarcasm:


You're right of course. We never see those sorts of "stories"

:hi:

aA
kesha

[nadine_mn]

205. I actually have that story - except he was 6'7 and my boss

I was sitting in a staff meeting with my co-workers and my boss - a white 6'7 racist, homophobic asshat.

He was telling us about the board members he was recruiting and was saying "Mr X is a doctor, Mrs Y is the wife of a state senator, Mr. Z is professor and Ms. A is a black woman"

Without thinking of the consequences, I blurted out "well what the hell color is rest of them?"

He said - seriously "The same color as the rest of us, I thought you would be happy that I recruited a black woman"

Some arguing ensued, at least one of my co-workers backed me up on my outrage (the woman was qualified for the position - well educated and worked in the same field as our non-profit, which is more of a selling point than her skin color and much more qualified that the wife of a state senator who was looking for something to do)


My boss later physically threatened me on multiple occasions and I eventually was fired after complaining to the Board of Directors about his behavior.

[whathehell]

233. Excellent observation.

Women, it seems, being sooo much easier to smack down...Talk about "bullying".:eyes:

[TwixVoy]

111. MLK once said

"When this is all over it is not the words of our enemies we will remember but the silence of our friends"

Too many people want to be silent these days.

[auntAgonist]

118. There is a huge difference between silence and belligerence.

I don't see anyone here advocating staying silent but I do see a lot of people agreeing that you were in the wrong.

silence.












belligerence.





lots of room for CONSTRUCTIVE discussion.


aA

[Le Taz Hot]

270. It's a common tactic on DU.

When the argument is untenable, change the premise of the argument. Example: "Obama went back on his campaign promise to fight for single-payer" turns unto "YOU'RE AN OBAMA HATER!!!!11111!!!!!!!!" "I have serious concerns about illegal immigration" turns into "You're a bigot! You hate immigrants!!!!!11111!!!!!!" Anyway, watch for it if you haven't noticed it before. As soon as they pull it, I know I've just "won" the debate.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

155. Quoting MLK to justify this homemade HS.

Gall.

[Telly Savalas]

200. And your approach was pretty much the same way MLK would have fucking handled it, eh?

[uponit7771]

241. +1

[ergot]

319. Well, the upside of this is that now I know where to sell my bridge up in Brooklyn...

there's no shortage of gullible around here.

:eyes:

[itsrobert]

103. That's a neat story

But just too perfect. I hope you understand my skepticism. Mark Twain spun a few yarns in his day too.

[CJCRANE]

122. + me.

I agree, it seems like a script not a real anecdote.

[TexDevilDog]

109. She is a racist

but I didn't see where you mentioned that she stated she was a republician?

Sad to say, some of my relatives in MN, being card carrying members and life time democrats, state things such as "f-ing N.....s" all the time. All people can be racist, just saying.

[MedicalAdmin]

260. I live in MN and I can attest to that.

Statistically I think it is more likely to find racists who vote repub than dem, but it isn't unheard of - Dixiecrats anyone?

[Obamanaut]

363. Antagonists in the OP's tales are republicans who have taken bible

classes. Here's another one http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=679502

[Coyote_Bandit]

121. Feeling proud of your behavior and "accomplishment", eh?

Well, congratulations.

At the very least you were rude and mean-spirited. To somebody you didn't know and who had apparently done nothing to attack you personally. And you take pleasure in that behavior.

Welcome to my fucking ignore list.

[The Doctor.]

134. Cornflakes get peed on this morning?

The 'rude' person was the woman that opened up her mouth and denigrated an innocent girl out of bigotry and racism. Perhaps you find that behavior acceptable, perhaps not.

What TwixVoy did was perfectly justified, and could have been the best lesson that woman has ever learned. That woman will either keep her mouth shut from now on in the knowledge that such thoughts are not publicly acceptable, or she will actually examine her beliefs and perhaps realize that she is responsible for her predicament, not 'Mexicans'.

TV likely motivated this woman to either 'Grow up' or 'Shut up'. Either way, TV performed a service.

You don't like that take? You really truly believe that this was done just to screw with a 'poor innocent racist'?

Then put me on ignore too, because I do the same things to these nasty pieces of crap and I'd hate to think you might have to read about any other racists or homophobes getting a proverbial 'slap in the face'.

I think they deserve it. You don't. That's pretty clear here.

[Coyote_Bandit]

144. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity and respect

Even people who are disagreeable - or somehow "beneath" us. What the OP did was to bait the woman and then publicly denigrate her. Since you find that acceptable you can join the OP on my fucking ignore list.

I learned one important thing from my granny. Watch how someone treats another person who is somehow inferior or disagreeable. You can expect that they will treat you the same. If they treat them with dignity and respect then you can expect that likely they will treat you likewise. If not, then have the self-respect to walk away. There is no reason to invest yourself or your time in a discourse or relationship with someone who will not treat you with dignity and respect.

[The Doctor.]

164. Thank you for treating me with enough 'dignity and respect' to

put me on your "Fucking ignore list."

I don't respect hypocrites, so I'm happy to be there with your forever being ignorant of what those around you say. I'm pretty sure you have a long list there.

[ergot]

325. Are you the "big burly" doctor the guy on the cancer commercial talks about?

:shrug:

[raccoon]

261. Your granny was very wise. This is worth repeating:

"Watch how someone treats another person who is somehow inferior or disagreeable. You can expect that they will treat you the same. "

[Le Taz Hot]

271. Your granny was a wise woman.

I've recently had to re-learn that "walk away" lesson myself and no, family does NOT get a pass. Here's another one: If someone is gossiping to you about others you can guarantee that same person is gossiping to others about you. I find an abrupt subject change gets the message across rather well.

[Union Scribe]

221. Lol!

Did you see how the OP didn't try to write, word for word, a script like you did? It made it slightly more believable than your tales.

[Liberal_in_LA]

123. HOLY MOLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! good for you. Knocking down a racist.

[CJCRANE]

124. Very clever story.

There's some very clever sleight of hand: with deft use of reverse racism you've managed to get (some) DUers cheering on a RW meme.

[FloridaJudy]

125. There's a name for people

Who get others to open up to them, and then publicly shame them. I'm too much of a lady to repeat it.

[pamela]

126. So was she in front of you or behind you?

"This bitter looking 50 year old white person was standing in front of me..."
"The racist fu** I was talking to was standing right behind me..."

[auntAgonist]

135. Good catch.

She had to have been behind the OP because the OP was checking out next after the Spanish speaking customer was done.

Hard to keep stories straight I guess :)

:hi:
aA

[nadine_mn]

203. what you didn't catch the part where the OP

cut in front of the racist in a moment of dramatic heroism to rescue the poor cashier?

I abhor racism and smack it down when I can - but without making up elaborate stories.

[auntAgonist]

207. That must have been when I covered my eyes because

the story was getting too scary!!


:hi:
aA

[lumberjack_jeff]

277. heh. n/t

:spray:

[ScreamingMeemie]

136. Ooops...

That's embarrassing. Good catch pamela.

It's posts like these that irritate the heck out of me. We don't need false anecdotes to know there's a problem that needs fixing.

[Marcel]

140. It's hard to remember all those little details...

when someone tells a made up story. But I guess that some people have to in order to feel "superior". :rofl:

[Dreamer Tatum]

146. They really need to sketch out the storyline first, don't they?

Works with novels, short stories, and pretty much anything you have to make up first.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

152. Yep.

Unbelievable.

[Raine]

161. yeah I was wondering HOW the "bitter 50 yr. old standing in front" ended up behind the poster

when the supposed "smack down" took place. :eyes:

edit: added word

[Mimosa]

342. That's why I figured it was all made up. *LOL* n/t

[pintobean]

168. I was standing there, beside myself, when......

:rofl:
The last time one of these popped up, someone suggested a Penthouse Forum type of forum for DU.

[cordelia]

170. LOL!

[The Doctor.]

301. Really. Wow, and just what one was that?

I seem to recall, actually. It was something that actually happened to me.

In typical fashion, one poster insinuated, without having the courage to come out and say it, that I had lied. I called them on it, and you attempted to admonish me for making such an assumption... even going so far as to tell me I had no 'class'.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1228664#1229342

Well, I know where on DU the 'class' deficit is now. Made up for in duplicity, apparently. Thanks for finally coming forward about that.

[pintobean]

312. You're funny.

The 'class' I referred to was in your deleted message. I guess the mods agreed with me.

[Name removed]

318. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pintobean]

324. "Assuming that any deleted message was necessarily by me is pretty convenient."

Then you state what was in the post. :rofl: I know what you posted. You blatantly break the board rules and try to provoke others to do the same. And I'm the sad one. I'm with Gormy Cuss. You're very defensive. Maybe you're protesting too much.

[slampoet]

131. Don't cha love all the people who are criticizing you but not a single one says when THEY would do?

They don't have any solutions in their advice.

[ScreamingMeemie]

133. This one did...

...and I'm criticizing the honesty of the story, not the OP. :hi:

[LeftyMom]

137. I suspect that's because a lot of people recognize that it's a work of short fiction.

:shrug:

[The Doctor.]

143. I have had many encounters with different wingnut types.

I've posted a few of them here. Every last one happened as described to the best of my ability to recall. I don't know for certain that this story is true, but I give the BOTD even when there are continuity errors. The more salient point we've come to over this is just how to treat wingnuts in public.

As for veracity, there are many DUers who will simply decide any anecdote is fake (as many have thought of my experiences). I hope you've taken this thread as an object lesson and realize that you can never post an anecdote here without a few people insinuating that you are a liar.

Hmmm... I think the next time someone does that to me, I'll just have to make them eat their words. Thanks for the inspiration!

[Dreamer Tatum]

148. It might help if at least some of the stories didn't end with the protagonist uttering perfect lines

and assuring us all that the antagonist was left speechless and defeated.

And once in a while it would be nice if the setting was something other than a grocery store.

And it might help in the OP's case if he didn't have a history of stretching the truth just a tad.

He is supposed to be in Portugal, for example.

[The Doctor.]

160. Right, no one ever says the right things in real life.

:eyes:

I don't know about this story, it could easily be true as I have had many similar experiences. Either way, it prompted a good discussion on how to deal with wingnuts in public.

As for the 'Portugal' thing, usually the best way to find out why he's not there is to ask. This may come as a shock to you, but sometimes people plan things that wind up not happening. If you have the links that show he was claiming to be in Portugal while actually in the US, then let's have it. That way I can evaluate his level of integrity with more discretion.

My http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1228664">last encounter happened on the corner in front of a Family Video store. It went down almost exactly as I described it.

Here's what I think of the people that refuse to believe anything someone reports on these boards; They are sad, I feel sorry for them. Why? I have a favorite phrase that holds truer than steel; "We expect of other what we expect of ourselves."

Those who cannot imagine having such an encounter in real life and having such a positive result will be unlikely to believe that others, especially those they think of as 'peers', do either. What I am told by most of these hyper-skeptical sorts is that they themselves do not have the capacity to act in similar circumstances.

There's nothing wrong with some healthy skepticism, but taking someone at face value causes no harm and makes a fool of no one. Those that are so afraid they are being 'tricked' that they refuse to believe anonymous personal stories have insecurity issues they should really ponder.

Frankly, I don't care if he made it up. The next time someone accuses me of doing so, OTOH, I'll make them eat their words.

[Divine Discontent]

217. yes, regardless of the authenticy of this story or not, these things happen every day in life, and

some are repeated to a wider audience.

I have had a few in the past five years, both of which I posted as OP's on DU to wide enjoyment. One was a postal encounter, where I got to tell a woman, "well, elections have consequences", after she interrupted my cell phone chat to say I was lying to my friend about what it (health care bill) had in it. And the other was where I was assaulted verbally by a rich lady in a Mercedes SUV, because I insisted on giving a blanket and tending to a homeless lady's leg sores. I told her she was unhinged for yelling at me for doing that, and I remember telling her to get behind me, satan as my last words to her as she sped off yelling she was calling the cops! LOL...
These right wing asses are out there, and they bother us caring folks all the time, and the great lines do get said every day! I, like others, know not all the stories people say are true, but I certainly believe most are! But I love your comment, that we hope most are true, but the most ardent "I don't believe these internet stories at all", are saying that because we expect of others what we expect of ourselves. Some just wouldn't dare speak up, and that's okay, as sometimes it's not necessarily wise/safe/prudent to argue with these nuts, but these events happen a lot, and should be told to others! LOL

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Divine%20Discontent/103

[Gormy Cuss]

177. Since you have much experience with similar situations, maybe you can address Obamanaut's comment

here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1327727&mesg_id=1329043

[The Doctor.]

186. Sure. Here;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1228664

The 'Dull Guy' was about 6'2" or so.

I don't know whether TwixVox's OP is true or not. Frankly, I don't care. I learn more about the people who convince themselves that it can't be true from these threads than I do about the people they accuse of fabrication. Why are some so small that they feel the need to be impervious to being 'fooled'? What the hell is the point, on an anonymous message board, of trying to convince anyone that you 'aren't fooled' by someone's story?

It's at least as bad to disbelieve a true anecdote as it is to be 'taken in' by a false one. I suppose it can make one 'look like a fool' either way. I've had some of these same 'fools' reject my very real anecdotes because, I suspect, they can't manage to believe anyone is capable of dealing with the wingnuts the way I do. I find that very sad, because it tells me that these people cannot manage to engage wingnuts at the level some of us do on a fairly regular basis.

Like I said; it tells me far more about them when they behave that way. Since I know for a fact what I write is true, I also know to a certainty those who are being just as foolish to decide that something never happened just because they weren't there. Even more sad; most of these people are not brave enough to come right out and 'call bullshit'. Rather, they resort to insinuation.

My exchange at the Family Video was witnessed by the store manager. I could provide the number for people to call and ask about it, or I could even go ahead video record the next exchange. Thing is, what the hell would be the point? With the anonymity of the internet, none of them would really care, none of them would have the integrity or humility to apologize for insinuating I lied. So what's the point?

I don't know whether anyone here is being entirely honest except for myself. I could spend my energies and time worrying whether I will be taken as a fool for either believing or disbelieving a story, or I can take it at face value and not care.

[Gormy Cuss]

190. I find a lot of behaviors on public message boards to be interesting.

I didn't question the truth of your assertions. I merely asked if you had tales that refuted Obamanaut's assertion. It's curious that it made you so defensive. I have tales to tell that would look absurd on this board too, but I choose not to repeat them here because I understand just how incredible they would appear to strangers. Not worth the effort.

However, my own experiences don't blind me to the possibility that tales narrated by others here may not be authentic. When the narration is internally inconsistent that's not a good sign.

[The Doctor.]

231. Defensive? Hardly.

I just like to be clear. Take it how you will.

[Gormy Cuss]

283. You were very clear.

Very clear that posters who took issue with the OP's tale were the problem, not the OP's broad stereotypes nor the glaring inconsistency in the description of where the subject woman was in relation to the OP. The latter criticism by the way is "calling bullshit" without using those words.

[The Doctor.]

317. I didn't say they 'were the problem'.

I said they have a problem.

I've said everything else I've had any need to say in this thread. Having my words misconstrued around here is pretty common, so I don't really give much of a fuck. As far as I'm concerned, this hasn't been much more than an interesting character study around the campfire.

I agree that 'bullshit' was indeed 'called'. As I stated; I really don't care whether this is true or not, it's just funny to see so many people make that the greater issue than the actual value of the story.

[Ikonoklast]

150. One of many from the same author.

The salt mines put on an extra shift for this one.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

156. Don't make up a HS story?

[Le Taz Hot]

273. Here's three options:

1. I would NOT have baited her.

2. I would have politely changed the subject. "I notice that the price of bread went up by 25 cents this week."

3. Turn it into a positive: "Yes, I wish that foreign languages would have been an option when I went to grade school. I wouldn't be trying to play catch-up at age 56 but, ah well, life is for learning, isn't it?"

Pretty easy, actually. :shrug:

[City of Mills]

132. Remind me to NEVER get on your bad side

Holy shit, LOL! :o

[mwooldri]

142. Unrecommended I'm afraid.

If this is a true account of what happened, sorry it's just plain heartless as to what was said at the end.

IMO I would have apologized to that young cashier for the elder lady's statement about "speak english" and left it at that - though making sure that the apology was clearly audible to the elder lady.

[Dreamer Tatum]

145. I'd have a more emotional response if this actually happened.

Really, why do 99% of all political discussions on DU happen between adversarial strangers in long grocery lines?

[Raine]

166. I would too

and it would probably be disgust because of ugly being met with more ugly. x(

[LeftyMom]

167. Five years ago it was gas stations.

Some people couldn't fill up the tank without having to school some wingnut (who inevitably drove a giant pickup or SUV) on the latest Bush administration evil. Me, I mostly just get my gas and go. Maybe run inside to buy a paper, or a soda if the day is hot. I don't get into political fights with strangers who are equally busy and hurried, because I recognize that we all have shit to do.

[Ikonoklast]

171. Random strangers open up their entire personal financial, educational, and work history to other

random strangers standing in line at grocery stores all the time where I live.

You can't even buy a loaf of bread without the jerk behind you telling you his entire Curriculum Vitae, his credit score, PIN numbers, details of his last prostate exam, the affair he had with a cocktail waitress while his wife visited her sister when she was having her kids, why he thinks Sacco and Vanzetti were actually guilty, and that his brother-in-law can get me a good deal on some tires, even though he's a schmuck.

Happens all the time where I shop.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

151. Unbelievable.

:*

[Hangingon]

158. People actually believe this happened... Wow!

[A-Schwarzenegger]

159. "Isn't it pretty to think so?"

Although in this case, not so pretty at all.

[petronius]

162. If this story is true at all, it's not something to be proud of. And if it isn't true,

it's still not something to be proud of...

[undeterred]

193. Its a totally disgusting post.

It makes liberals look just as hateful as conservatives.

[CJCRANE]

297. Bingo!

If you switch the races of the cashier and the customer, it's a simple racist freeper tale about "personal responsibility" / "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" etc.

The genius of the OP is to switch the races to get DUers cheering on a RW meme against working class people.

[Mimosa]

343. ^ You nailed it, CJCrane ^

There's a site where a freeper makes fun of DUers and posts links to these tales he calls 'bouncies'. He claims he and other freepers troll this board all the time and have for years...

I wonder if they ever make up the stories in order to present Democrats as idiots?

[cordelia]

346. Gives one pause, doesn't it? n/t

[Occulus]

310. It is never "hateful" to school a bigot

and the only way bigots learn is by putting it all in terms personal to them. Bullies are much the same way.

This is how we should be dealing with these people- by putting their own failures in stark relief and casting the terms in the exact same way they talk about other people. If we don't, they feel free to spew this sort of bullshit whenever, wherever.

It's like that story of the Starbuck's employee who was fired for being gay. Any of the customers would have been perfectly in the right to tell the female manager that her place was in the kitchen, cooking, and raising babies. It's obviously untrue, and misogynistic, and promotes a gender stereotype, but those are the things pushed by conservative men toward "their" women. This woman needed someone to make the reverse of her own bigotry true, publicly, in someone else's eyes.

In cases like these, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" go hand-in-hand. We should all know from experience dealing with staunch conservatives- homophobic, racist, and nationalist conservatives- that the only way to shut them down is to throw their own ideology right back at them. The OP is right; they just don't know how to deal with their own ideals being applied to them.

That some posters on DU think that it, itself, hateful, bigoted, or shameful is only an indication of how totally clueless newer Democrats are about dealing with Republicans. That, or many newer Democrats are former Republicans who still buy the "doing it back is hateful, too" nonsense.

This is the only way many of them learn. It is, therefore, a completely appropriate tactic to use.

[undeterred]

323. The us vs them mentality does not work well in face to face situations.

[Raine]

163. Your STORY is inconsistant, HOW did the 50 yr old go from in front of you

to behind you???

[ohheckyeah]

173. Am I supposed to be impressed?

Why not just respond that in a free country people are free to speak whatever language they choose?

[OKNancy]

176. This reminds me of the adage: Liberals love the masses, but

hate the individual. Conservative love the individual but hate the masses.

If I were in line I would have said something like.. " it doesn't bother me if someone speaks Spanish.. I hope your life turns out better, and Obama is your best bet for that to happen.. good day"

[Telly Savalas]

202. But that doesn't feed the "Us vs. Them" mentality advocated by the far right and the OP

[Name removed]

179. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dappleganger]

180. You are the boss!

OMG, I am not worthy...

:toast: :yourock:

[flvegan]

189. I'm posting in this thread.

I feel we'll be referring to this example for years to come.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

208. Me, too.

Did I ever mention the time that, while standing in line to buy Dimmu Borgir tickets, I caused a guy to burst into tears, fall on his knees and beg for my forgiveness because I sneered at his NRA belt buckle and mocked his McCain/Palin t-shirt?

[flvegan]

218. You'd think that dark metal from Oslo would have fans

with stronger resolve.

[undeterred]

192. I've never seen so many gross generalizations in one post.

"Most ground level republicans are uneducated, poor, and generally have made bad choices in life based on hateful personalities."

Whats a "ground level republican"? Someone who is way beneath you?

Are people who are uneducated and poor beneath Democrats now?

Who decides who has made bad choices in life? Is it up to you to decide?

Whats a hateful personality? Someone who judges everyone in line at the grocery store?

And what exactly does a "bitter looking 50 year old white person" look like?

All these things certainly don't make it sound like you're coming from a morally superior position, in fact quite the opposite.

You've gotten quite a bit of support for having a totally nasty attitude toward other people here but I think your attitude is horrible.

[Skip Intro]

196. +100 nt

[KittyWampus]

197. Damn, you had that much time for the racist to tell you her entire life story?

You must be some guy, getting a racist fuck to trust you like that and open up and tell you everything she's ever done until the moment she ended up in front of you in line and then simultaneously in back of you.

That cashier might be smart but she must be slower than molasses if that racist had so much time she gave you her entire biography.

Good for you- gaining her trust and then using that trust to rip her a new one.

You're my hero.

By the way, don't you work at Target anymore?

Or is it McDonalds

Or Walmart.

You have so many stories, it's hard to keep track.

[tishaLA]

199. I regret that I have but one unrec

to give to this load of codswallop.

[KittyWampus]

201. codswallop!

:rofl:

I ignored this thread up til I saw some other DU'ers doing copycats.

[GoneOffShore]

204. The lack of consistency in your story makes it more than implausible.

And you were beyond mean.

Thanks for losing us someone who you could have turned into an ally by pointing out that the cashier and the "racist fu**" actually share the same problems, dreams and fears.

[MellowDem]

206. A made up, hateful story...

gets a ton of recommendations on DU. That's the saddest part of this whole thread.

Strangely enough, the OP comes across as more bigoted than the "racist fuck" they concocted out of thin air.

The first troubling aspect is that so many DUers could not see that this story was made up.

The second troubling aspect is that so many actually cheered on the OP's hateful little fiction, enough that it had a + 47 recommends when I clicked on it.

This little story is the story of a bully. For DUers that initially cheered it on, I recommend you rethink your reasoning. I've known many Republicans and conservatives in my life, so I find the demonization of them to always be rather ignorant. If you want to change people's minds, demonization and bullying is not the way to do it. Doing it for personal gratification is disgusting.

[undeterred]

209. The first response I wrote condemning the OP was actually alerted

and deleted so I had to repost it. Although more and more people disagreed with the OP as the day went on it seems that it really took a long time for the majority of people to see this post for the ugliness that it is.

One of the most sickening things I've ever seen on DU- and you've characterized it perfectly.

[ScreamingMeemie]

210. There were quite a few of us, early on, calling the OP on it.

Only the first couple of posts were Woot type posts.

[undeterred]

211. I see that.

Well, at least you didn't get deleted. :hi:

[auntAgonist]

212. I called it and the OP for what they were quite early

in the thread.
For that I've been called pathetic, racist and friendless. But, I stand by my posts. Thank you for standing by yours too.


aA
kesha

[undeterred]

213. Thank you.

:hi:

[trackfan]

219. +1 n/t

[A-Schwarzenegger]

226. The RECS/UNRECS are currently perfectly divided, 58-58.

That half the voters saw through the false bravado
is some kind of consolation.

[Common Sense Party]

229. How can you tell the number of unrecs? n/t

[A-Schwarzenegger]

230. Click on "Greatest" at the top of the page, then

Click on "Top Tens", then
scroll down on the left to "Just Recs,"
find this thread, it lists the recs--117 right now,
whereas the recs on the thread itself are at 58.
117 - 58 = 59 Unrecs

[A-Schwarzenegger]

238. Oops, bad bad math.

120 Recs right now, 60 recs on the thread,
meaning there are 60 unrecs, or 2-1 for recs.
So 2 out of 3 believe the OP to be both true and
worth recommending?

[Common Sense Party]

287. That's sad.

But thanks, I never knew how to count unrecs before.

[Marr]

214. This seems very mean to me.

Surely we'd be better off trying to show other working class people that their interests are our interests. My mom is somewhat similar to the woman you describe. She says incredibly racist things sometimes, but that's what she was taught growing up. She's still poor, still working her ass off, and she really is a good person-- she just has this blind spot, and no one (apart from her loony son) has ever suggested to her that she has more in common with her Mexican co-workers than she has with Rush Limbaugh.

[undeterred]

216. I think we need to show people that the Democratic Party

does care about their economic interests, if indeed we can show that this is true. I get most of my food at a food pantry. Although they didn't push it, they did have Obama signs up around the time of the 2008 election. I remember talking to a few people who had never voted before and were really excited about voting for Obama. Certainly made more sense than voting for McCain.

[ImNotTed]

222. Okay

Reco.

[IGoToDU]

223. Originally posted a reply

...cheering. I am new on here, still learning a lot. I found TwixVoy's story interesting; found others' commentary interesting as well. My reaction was rather knee jerk. I will think more carefully and read other responders before replying next time. Oh, life is for learning..

[Common Sense Party]

227. Very entertaining. Not at all believable, but great special effects.

Especially the CGI move of having the racist fu** who was standing in FRONT of you at the beginning of the scene, somehow move BEHIND you so you can deliver your fictional verbal smackdown.

And then how you slowed down time and reality so you could have a long, in-depth exchange with your antagonist, a longer conversation than could ever take place in real life.

For a mindless summer blockbuster, it's okay. It entertains, but it looks too Hollywood. It seemed sort of lifelike, but ultimately, everyone in the audience knows that it's fake.

[Lucian]

236. I figured it was a fake right away.

As many of these types of stories are.

I just don't see how this could be true, especially with the evidence you've provided.

[tkmorris]

237. Cool story. Fairy tale, but cool nonetheless

I have no idea why you feel the need to make up this stuff, but nonetheless it was a decent read.

[undeterred]

242. Henceforth it will be known as "The Legend of the Personal Responsibility Card"

:rofl:

[uponit7771]

243. There are WAAAAAY too many people in this thread sympathizing with the racist.

[Obamanaut]

246. The "imaginary" racist. nt

[xphile]

264. The key word is racist.

And there are way too many people sympathizing for the racist fuck.

Assuming for a moment that the story is real. Why is the racist being treated as the victim? The racist is the one who started the confrontation when she thought she had carte blanche to go after the cashier.

And why did the woman think she could say what she said about the cashier with no consequences? Because all too often the racist has said something similar and NO ONE called her out on it. No one apparently includes liberals who supposedly have no stomach for racists and their rhetoric.

Someone did and you're crying for the racist.

As to the veracity of the story, I don't know anyone personally so I'm in no position to call them out as a liar. I have no way of proving this story false so I see no reason not to take the story at face value. If it were demonstrably false then okay I can see the cries of liar. But there is no way to prove the story is false. And merely fucking up the details in the telling isn't enough. I fuck up details all the time when I tell stories especially when I go off on tangents to pick up details which will prove important to a story later. That said, I must say though I find it ironic that there are all these piling on (like bullies do) the OP to call her a liar and a bully.

So you're trying to say you have more regard for a racist (real or imaginary) than you do for the poster?

This thread has been quite illuminating on how many so-called liberals have very little respect for people who are supposed to be on their side while spending a lot of time crying tears for a racist.

I respect anyone who puts a racist in their place a hell of a lot more than those who cry tears for the bigot. At least I know who would have my back if I ran into the racist during the day. And it damn sure isn't the likes of you.

[cordelia]

272. I have to wonder why the OP felt compelled

to identify the villain in this tall tale as "white".

Wouldn't it be important know the ethnicity of each of the participants before referring to any of them as being racist? The OP quickly self-identified as being elitist, but never declared his/her race.

[xphile]

279. Are you saying that what the person said wasn't enough to identify the racist in the

story as racist?

Because the "You need to learn to speak English you're in America" comment pretty much placed them in role they'd been put into.

[Obamanaut]

274. Imaginary racist, imaginary smack down.

In this earlier OP thread from many weeks back there is a white antagonist with bible classes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

“…white republican who informed me that it's all the fault of the "illegal Mexicans" that he isn't a rich man, and that he's so upset that if it wasn't for "the Mexicans" he'd be making big money thanks to "a few bible college classes" he's taken…”

In this thread (the one we are in) the antagonist is “…bitter looking 50 year old white person was standing in front of me…” and “… her education consists of "some bible college classes…”

And this antagonist moves from in front of him to a place behind him.


He runs into a lot of white people who have been to bible college and tell him their history - both at work and in check-out lines.

I do not support racists, and I certainly do not support imaginary racists - the ones people make up to write stories on the internet.

Regarding bullies - IF this story were real, is it not a form of bullying for a grown man (the OP is male) to bully a 50 year old woman in a check out line, or anywhere else?

Give some more "woot woot" for this farcical tale if you wish, but there are too many inconsistencies to be factual.

[Mimosa]

344. Hmmm

Wonder why the link was deleted?

[Obamanaut]

345. Might have been the way I copied/pasted. Here it is, I just tried this one, it worked

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=679502

[Mimosa]

364. Thanks, Obamanaut

I don't want to bash the OP's author. But these kind of tales make D.U. look ridiculous. In *real life* there's not a one of us who would put up with a loudmouth bigot.

[ecstatic]

305. I noticed that. I guess the OP should have stayed in "his place" nt

[Obamanaut]

361. There are WAAAAAY too many people in this thread admitting they

are gullible enough to actually believe this happened.

[Enthusiast]

250. K&R, LOL! nt

[1monster]

251. Personally, I think what you did is just as hateful as you say she was.

There are better, kinder ways, that are far more effective to show peopel a better way.

Educate yourself on what services there are to help people like her who have lost so much and give that info out, along with kind words, real sympathy. Also, it is not impossible to mildly correct the person who so abhors Spanish speakers by pointing out that most are bilingual, something we all should aspire to in this country.

By showing her up and calling her a loser, you just reinforced her hatred.

[xphile]

266. Racists bullies don't respond to kindness.

You think rewarding someone is the way to deal with racists? Really? You think not letting the racist know that her bullshit is not acceptable in public is productive? Really?

It's no wonder we've not managed to make racists ashamed to spew their bullshit in public. Apparently it's not shameful enough to deserve a smack down and instead we should give them cookies and kisses.

[1monster]

276. And can you look at yourself and see perfection and no sin of any kind on you? If so, then

go ahead and hate as you will. :eyes:

[xphile]

281. So one has to be perfect in order to think racists should be properly smacked

down to keep them from spewing their hate and victimizing other people?

:eyes:

[CBGLuthier]

253. Matthew 7:3 said it better than I ever could

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

[Serve The Servants]

257. This post really made me think

about how screwed I'm going to be if I don't repair my credit in time to refinance my interest only loan.

[Ninjaneer]

267. So much awesome! :'-)

I bow to you.

[olegramps]

269. I think that the story is a bit of fantasy. But it has some substance.

She states that she was in line an the woman was ahead of her, but when she checks out the woman is than behind her. I have many relatives who live in the South and believe me when I say that the least educated of the lot are the most racist. And yes, they blame their lack of opportunities on minorities. It used to be Blacks, who the untiringly still refer to in the derogatory terms. Now they include the Brown skinned folks who they have similar names for. Several never even graduated from high school.

[and-justice-for-all]

280. bloody brilliant and smooth...nt

[greiner3]

285. Another talking point this socio-economic class has;

Is that African Americans are so under educated and all. The average education level for this group is about the 10th grade level. Funny thing is that taken as a whole, Southern Baptists have exactly the same level of education, 10th grade level.

Rising from the urban mess would be difficult. African Americans' education level has and is rising and will soon be on a level with the rest of the school age children. As for Southern Baptists, willful ignorance will keep them down for generations. Their excuses will be more vocal in the future; count on it.

[TalkingDog]

288. So you made the cashier excruciatingly uncomfortable so you could score points?

She had to wait on that woman after you left.

And from her end of the conversation, because she only heard you calling out the person in line, you came off like a complete jerk.

So... you embarrassed 2 people while looking like a jerk.

wooooo.......

[Lex]

289. bouncy?

[RSillsbee]

290. So, you took someone who's life is shitty to begin with

and made it worse.

And you're proud of that.

My, how progressive

[KansDem]

291. Now while I appreciate the OP's endeavor to bring non-FOX "news" to this low-info citizen...

I wonder about making the grocery-store clerk's position a place where she does not want to be.

I mean, implying that the right-winger might wind up as a grocery-store clerk as tantamount to sentencing that person to Hell could be an affront to those who make a living as a grocery-store clerk.

I say this as someone who earned graduate degrees with the intention to enter a profession only to receive scores of rejection letters for every job I applied to following graduation.

I now work in a "retail-clerk" environment. I do hope the clerk-turned-nurse will find the job of her dreams if that's her desire...

[A-Schwarzenegger]

292. Where's Twix?

Print the receipt, that'll show 'em.
There must be about a hundred items on there. :*

[KittyWampus]

294. He's out hunting down Oscar.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

296. He may find Oscar a different kind of animal

than his imaginary grocery store friend.

[Obamanaut]

353. Looking for more republicans who have had classes in bible school. nt

[Boudica the Lyoness]

293. Well done

:)

[ooglymoogly]

295. I think you are correct in your description of pugs,

I have known more than I have ever cared to; but not enthralled by this story.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

298. You can't teach Fox Snooze viewers a damn thing.

Their minds are closed. Facts are not in their reality.
Telling them facts is a painful experience for them. They will tune you out anyway.

[pamela]

332. Exactly.

While I think this particular story is complete horseshit, even if it were true the wingnut probably wouldn't have learned anything by it. She probably wouldn't have even thought the OP was talking about her at the end. She would have gone home and said "I met the nicest man at the grocery store today. The cashier was speaking Spanish and I told her to speak English and the man in front of me AGREED with me!" End of story.

I think progressives often try to be "too clever by half" and don't realize that their point is complete lost on wingnuts. They just hear the part where you agree with them and it reinforces their ugly belief system. The best thing to do when you encounter these types for real is to simply say "What an ugly, hateful thing to say."

[A-Schwarzenegger]

334. The perfect ending to the story:

"I met the nicest man at the grocery store today. The cashier was speaking Spanish and I told her to speak English and the man in front of me AGREED with me!"

[pamela]

335. Yep, that's where he lost me.

Agreeing with a racist and then making a racist statement yourself is never a clever way of dealing with a situation. What if the cashier had heard the OP's racist statement? Or if the wingnut forgot an item and had to leave the line or got a phone call before the OP could carry out the rest of his nefarious plot? A LOT of things would have to go just absolutely perfectly for this story to be true. But mostly though, after you agree with a racist and make a racist statement yourself, any other point you happen to make will be lost. They'll just hear the part where you agreed with them.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

336. Yes, if this steaming ball of horseshit had actually taken place

the cashier & everybody in the store would have
been convinced the Hero was a raving kook. It's a
preposterous & ugly tale and a sad commentary (from
the recs) that so many people not only believed it but
approved its hateful object lesson.

[pamela]

337. About the recs...

I think a lot of the recs are more about "Hey, check out this steaming pile of horseshit!" than about actually recommending the story. This is a classic trainwreck thread and I think a lot of DUers just want to make sure everyone sees it.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

349. Oh, I hope so.

:)

[cordelia]

352. Hope you're right. n/t

[rainparkotherthings]

302. Question for you, kind sir...

Are you telling me that she would be fine if undocumented Poles were taking over the jobs in her area, speaking a foreign language in front of her and requiring that all job applicants be bilingual in both English and Polish?

DU seems to have its share of nurses here. I notice that they are bringing doctors from the Philippines to work here as nurses after Americans were suckered into going back to school to become nurses in an "up-and-coming" field. I am sure that Hispanics are sought after due to their being bilingual (the younger ones born to illegal aliens). Nothing against this young woman's success but it is a bit aggravating to try and get a job only to be told that you have be bilingual in your own country, despite your education and meanwhile, Hispanics with a BA (but not a teaching certificate) can fast-track and get an emergency certificate because of the need. The need wouldn't be there if so many of "them" (no way of making that sound nice) weren't here. Yes, I am aware of NAFTA (thanks, Clinton!), but the problem of illegal immigration began way before then. I blame Reagan for amnesty.

In any case, your post reeks with elitism. Trust me, there are many people with BAs and such working retail and service jobs. And not all Repubicans lack education. Matter of fact, they scored the highest on that civic test posted on DU a while back...

If you live in a very intolerant area and consider yourself very liberal, then I suggest you move. I don't have to deal with that mess where I live. Of course, it's always something, as Gilda Radner would say...

[pamela]

333. I love your user name.

Now I have a Cowsills earworm. :P

[Taverner]

303. The Republicans whine all day, and have the gall to claim we're playing the 'victim' card...

[ecstatic]

304. I wonder why some people are so offended by this

I don't know if I believed the story or not, leaning towards not, but it certainly made me laugh!

Are people upset that a white woman (fictional or not) was put in her place? :shrug:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

330. They may have been offended the OP would try to peddle such a trousersload.

I believe it was a very fetching update of the heroic Greco-Roman tragedy of King Herbsclotus and the Roaming Pumbscrumn.

[XanaDUer]

367. A "white woman"?

?

[DainBramaged]

306. As I learned, they will never change, we shouldn't take our wrath out on them.

How would you feel if she ended her life over the realization she made so many bad choices?


Take it out on the leaders.

[Serve The Servants]

328. I don't think she ever existed in the first place N/T

[DainBramaged]

366. Probably did, but everyone embellishes their incidents

My whole point is unless they express an intention to change, you're better off trying to appeal to whatever good they may have left than to crush them.


Life is too short.

[GSLevel9]

308. well played... nt

[AngryAmish]

309. cool story, bro

[Serve The Servants]

329. Brool Story Co.

[True Earthling]

314. Don't strain your arm patting yourself on the back...

I don't see how castigating someone teaches anything.

[TK421]

321. my balls itch

[XanaDUer]

322. Kick

nt.

[Obamanaut]

327. 'Dirty Harry' sums up this sort of story nicely "He's a legend in his own mind." nt

[SwampG8r]

348. pure bullcrap

never happened and quite likely never would

[Throd]

351. I invented helium.

[snooper2]

354. Fucking greatness..

"couldn't make it through bible college" :rofl:

good story anyway :P

[Arugula Latte]

358. Well, there are a lot of facts to memorize in Bible college.

Oh, wait, no there aren't. There aren't any facts at all. So I take back what I said. :)

[Obamanaut]

365. A tale of fiction, much like the OP. nt

[Crankie Avalon]

356. It doesn't get any more PERFECT that that...

[ZombieHorde]

359. Delightfully sadistic. nt

[Romulox]

362. Wow. So hateful. We may both call ourselves "progressives", but I seriously doubt our politics are

the same. :puke: